Jayachamaraja Odeyar (Mysore Maharajah) - Part II

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Oct 2005, 05:33

I just said:
Friend! We had enough digression! Let us move on with our topic of discussion..

But I await the exotic recordings from coolkarni/others. I wish also to know how you so deftly composed in VamSavati when there are not many examples to go by! It was a raga(viSvaambari) ignored by the Trinity (OK! MD composed in vamSavati!) but why later composers didn't (perhaps only you after Odeyar)! This is not digression but clarification! Also did you compose with just the notes in mind or apply the raga to the composition later?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 30 Oct 2005, 06:34

I compose mAtu and dhAtu at the same time. I of course polish it when writing down in notation. It is difficult with very few or at times no examples to go by. If I cannot get hold of a rendition, I look at the notation of available kRtis. Then I sing to myself(both aloud and in mind endlessly!) to work out the gamakas, jIva swaras and phrases and the bhAva/rasa. Then I compose usually incorporating the rAgamudre,

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 30 Oct 2005, 09:04

amrithavarshini.. working on a gs mani rendering.
DRS will we need the amrithavarshini-anandabhairavi RTP of balmurali here ?

mandari
here is a track of semmangudi . whenever semmangudi brings up krithis like this and mosabogu at the start of the concert , I get goosebumps.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6942997/semm ... i.mp3.html

I am also working on another track by that great exponent of mandari-ramnad Krishnan.It is a pity there are so few of his recordings in circulation.

On checking my CM-HM equivalents I discover that its equiavalent in HM is Jait and luckily I have only one rendering of it by Vasanthrao Despande(though I have several others like Jaitsree, jaitkalyan)..
http://rapidshare.de/files/6942782/Jait.mp3.html
But I have found it difficult to find the similarity-- another of those atana type cases I suppose.

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 30 Oct 2005, 10:30

I have been away for a long time, and it is wonderful to return to this lively discussion on JCRW's krithis, and all its spin-offs. Thanks you all for sharing your deep erudition. This forum appears to be a veritable assembly of polyglots!

DRS, I heard your Bekkase, and Bhakthavathsalam by SSI - the vivadi note could hardly be heard (unlike, for eg., in Rasikapriya). Even SSI's swaraprastharam slides over the D3. In fact, both renditions are more like Mandhari. Kudos to you for taking up a ragam whose swaroopam is not as well established as say, a Thodi / Kalyani. If I may ask, why did you choose Vamsavathy for Bekkase?

chithra

abadri · Post by **abadri** » 30 Oct 2005, 15:46

Mandari - I think Ramnad Krishnan used to perform this regularly.
Here's his rendidion of Paralokha Bhaya:- [rapidshare link removed]

And here's Neyveli's rendition of HMB's Ennalu Tirugutsunu
[rapidshare link removed]

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 30 Oct 2005, 15:58

Coolkarniji,

The SSI rendition of "Ninnu Cheppa Karanamemi" is very fine, thanks a lot. This is the way it should be sung.

By the way, what does it have to do with Odeyar? Should I move unrelated posts to a separate discussion?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 30 Oct 2005, 16:04

NO. Dont move it srkris. The pieces have been posted to help us compare and understand vamSavati, mandAri and aMrtavarShiNi better. ANd the discussions are have stemmed from oDeyar`s viSvambhari kRti. So let them be.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 30 Oct 2005, 16:08

http://rapidshare.de/files/6950676/gs_m ... rshini.mp3

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 30 Oct 2005, 17:29

Coolkarni
bEDa. Let us leave out MBK`s dvirAga RTP. Thanks to you and badri for those clippings.

Chitra
It is more a case of choosing bekkasa beragAde for vamSavti rather than the other way round. Menaing- I chose that theme to suit the ethos/bhAva of vamSavati rAga.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 30 Oct 2005, 20:44

Please pardon my digression:
"Eendra pozhudhinum peridhuvakkum than maganai sandron ena ketta thaai"

(Great is the joy of the mother when a child is born to her; but greater is her joy when she hears about him spoken of as a scholar).
Chembai,
Here is something along those sentiments that many will understand without the need to translate!
'mechchi unai UrAr pugarzhndhAl mEni shilirkkudhadI' - of course the gender needs to be changed, because this is in reference to DRS and his very justifiably proud mother!
Chithra,
Welcome back!
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Oct 2005, 21:40

DRS

Please oblige us with the notations for Bekkasa. That will make it official for the books as well as encourage folks to learn it and render it independantly.
Thanks to you! This thread is becoming educational!

chithra · Post by **chithra** » 31 Oct 2005, 00:12

Ravi:

Thank you.

Do you really think the gender needs to be changed? Bharathiyar is talking about the rOmAnjali / puLakAngitham / horripilation he experiences when people praise his KaNNamma, and because the verse is addressed to a woman that there is a feminine ending for the verb, "silirkkudhadi". But, my ignorance is vast - please correct me, folks.

DRS- thanks for the explanation re: Bekkese

Chithra

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 01 Nov 2005, 05:31

DRS

Please oblige us with the notations for Bekkasa. That will make it official for the books as well as encourage folks to learn it and render it independantly.
Thanks to you! This thread is becoming educational!

Here is the notation

http://rapidshare.de/files/7023956/bekk ... h.pdf.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Nov 2005, 07:36

Thanks DRS

Just as I expected you have used S'ND as well as P,,ND appropriately to bring out the raga chaaya. In fact the start P,,ND puts the raga in perspective. In this case it is important to show the distinct 'shakl' of the raga based on the uttaraanga since the poorvaanga will confuse it with pantuvaraali. I am disappointed with SSI

in the sense that he has not avoided the distinction from pantuvaraali but infact starts and prolongs giving the illusion of the same (for example watch his charateristic pantuvaraali ending @ 2:16). Even in the swaras he avoids the vivadi swara and over kills the panchamam. Your use of the vivadi swara is judicious and shows the distinct nature of the raga. I must congratulate you on this tightrope walking without slipping into the trap of kaamavardhani (pun intended

) or even taking refuge in the neighbouring gamanaasrama(again pun intended

).

My only contention is that it is more vishvambari than vamSavati!

Now shall we move on...

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 01 Nov 2005, 15:29

Friends

As part of deepavali, it would be appropriate to invoke goddess lakshmi,

please d/l

kamalAMbikE - rAga: nATa, tALa: khaMDajhaMpe

http://rapidshare.de/files/7035064/17_K ... e.mp3.html

hope DRS won't mind!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Nov 2005, 20:55

Thanks RC

Now it will be nice if you/DRS also post the lyrics as also DRS discuss this superb composition of Odeyar! This vies in beauty with those of MD and is quite appropriate for this occasion. By the by who is the singer?

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 01 Nov 2005, 21:33

CML,

Knowing DRS, he will post his version later, but for the present i will post my version as it appeard in forumhub.

mahArAja jayachAmarAja oDeyar kRuti :lakShmi - 5

|| kamalAMbikE ||

rAga: nATa ; KaMDaJaMpe tALa

|| pallavi ||

|| kamalAMbikE mAmava sadA ||
|| karuNAlahari mAdhava manOhari ||

|| anupallavi ||

|| kamalAsana priyE vimalE
samudra mathana kalOdbhavE
mahAlakShmi mOhinee roopayutE ||

|| charaNa ||

||1|| iMdrAdi dEva poojitE
gaja gAmini nijaliMgEshvara poojitE ||

||2|| prapaMchAhlAda karAmRuta pAtra
shObhita hastE nATarAga priyE ||

||3|| neelakaMTha viShapAna staMbhita
sakala jaganmaMgaLE padmAsanE ||

||4|| shree vidyA chitprabhAnaMda rAjayOgeedra
vaMdita charaNa yugaLE ||

As for as the singer, i get confused between RKS and his son :! must be his son.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 01 Nov 2005, 22:41

Yes the singer is R.S.Ramakant. corrected version of sAhitya

|| kamalAmbikE ||

rAga: nATa ; khaNDajhampe tALa

kamalAmbikE mAmava sadA |
karuNAlahari mAdhava manOhari ||P||

kamalAsana priyE vimalE |
samudra mathana kAlOdbhavE mahAlakShmi mOhinIrUpayutE ||AP||

indrAdi dEva pUjitE gaja gAmini nijalingESvara pUjitE ||1||

prapancAhlAdakarAmRta pAtra SObhita hastE nATarAga priyE ||2||

nIlakaNTha viShapAna stambhita sakala jaganmangaLE padmAsanE ||3||

SrI vidyA citprabhAnanda rAjayOgIndra vandita caraNa yugaLE ||4||

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 02 Nov 2005, 18:55

Thanks to all of you for the rare renditions of these lovely krithis, as well as the erudite explanations by Dr. Shrikaanth, cmlover and others. They are extremely useful for [strictly amateur!] students of music like me.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 02 Nov 2005, 19:12

DRS
will we need some tracks in Nata ?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 02 Nov 2005, 19:30

DRS
will we need some tracks in Nata ?

Please post RTPs if you have them. If not, any elaborate pieces ar welcome.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 02 Nov 2005, 23:15

Here is one in Natta with ragavistara and swaras (15:41 mins ~ 3.6MB)

http://rapidshare.de/files/7098902/Raks ... _.mp3.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 02 Nov 2005, 23:51

Meaning of
|| kamalAmbikE ||

rAga: nATa ; khaNDajhampe tALa

kamalAmbikE mAmava sadA- ever protect me kamalAmbike!
karuNA lahari- River of compassion; mAdhava manOhari- You Who bewitch viShNu`s mind;

kamalAsana priyE- You Who are fond of the lotus throne/seat;
vimalE- Pure and unsullied One:
samudra mathana kAla udbhavE- You Who were born at the time of the churning of the oceans;
lakShmI was born at the time the dEvas and the asuras churned the ocean for obtaining amRta/nectar. She was born soon after candra and hence She is the daughter of the King of the oceans/milky ocean and the younger sister of candra. viShNu, the clever guy that He always is, while letting everyone choose from what was born of the ocean, gave no choice whe it came to lakShmi and claimed Her as His own!

mahAlakShmi; mOhinI rUpayutE- You Who has the form of mOhini (the form that beguiles everyone);

indrAdi dEva pUjitE- You Who are worshipped by indra and the other Gods;
gaja gAmini- You with the majestic gait of an elephant;
nija lingESvara pUjitE- You Who is worshipped by nijalingESvara;
(I am unable to arrive at a satisfactory explanation of nijalingESvara if I split it as nija(own/self`s) and lingESvara. Hence I have taken it as one unit. It appears to be a reference to a person:- perhaps to his(oDeyar`s) lingESvara i.e nAgalinga guru.)

prapanca AhlAdakara amRta pAtra SObhita hastE- You Whose hand holding a vessel/goblet of nectar bestows bliss on the whole universe; nATa rAga priyE- You Who is fond of nATa rAga;

SrI vidyA; citprabhAnanda rAjayOgIndra vandita caraNa yugaLE- You Whose feet are worshipped by citprabhAnanda(reference to himself) and other royal yOgis.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Nov 2005, 04:18

nijalingESvarapUjitE

I also thought that it was naagalinga as referring to his guru. Being such it can be intepreted as:

nitarAm jAyatE iti nijaH tasya rUpaM nijalingaH tasya ISvaraH nijalingESvaraH tEna pUjitA
(worshipped by the Lord whose intrinsic(nija) form is linga)

Pl note that the indigenous or natural form of Siva is the lingaM. The story of RaavaNa taking away the aatmalingaM of Siva refers to this!

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 04 Nov 2005, 22:38

There is an interesting artilce on Sri Kamakaameshwari Temple on Ramanuja Road, Mysore,built by oDeyar and sculptored by his guru shilpi siddalingaswamy at http://www.starofmysore.com/main.asp?type=specialnews.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 05 Nov 2005, 05:06

nATa is the jaya of the 36th mELa calanATa, the last of the Suddha madhyama mELas. It itself is the 36th asampUrNa mELa. It is an ancient rAga. Scale

SR3_G3M1PD3N3S* | S*NPMR_S ||

It is a classic demonstration of how the vivAdi mELas with R3 should be handled so as to avoid the vivAditva. It is the first of the ghana rAgas. R,M and N are the jIvaswaras. Again D3 is never given prominence and is often avoided(langhana) in the ArOhaNa without any detriment to the rAga bhAva. The rAga is considered auspicious and evokes vIra and adbhuta rasas. It is very good at elevating ones spirits and mood.

This kRti of oDeyar`s is one of his best ever. The swara sAhityas are beautiful and crisp. This kRti again treats lakShmi and pArvati as one. Note that the caraNa (prapancAhlAda--" begins on the atIta graha. Despite the choice of khaNDa jhampe tALa for the composition, it is clear that the kRti fits equally well into the dESAdi tALa.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 05 Nov 2005, 05:12

Raja Chandra
The link you have given does not lead to the articel. It just leads to the "Star of Mysore" homepage.

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Nov 2005, 05:31

DRS

i think this is the article RC is refering to:
http://www.starofmysore.com/searchinfo. ... ialnewsnew

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 05 Nov 2005, 05:42

Thanks meena.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Nov 2005, 17:37

http://rapidshare.de/files/7209316/trs- ... y-Nata.mp3

http://rapidshare.de/files/7208579/mdr- ... a-Nata.mp3

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Nov 2005, 20:16

coolkarni/badri
Is there no RTP in naaTTai at all? I would love to hear one!

DRS
naaTTai generally goes with Ganapathy. Could you/meena provide the reasoning behind? Are there naaTTai on other deities. Of course there is the famous 'saraseeryhasanapriye' of puliyur..

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Nov 2005, 22:28

right now I can only borrow a line from my fair lady , and exclaim !!!!

"Wait . Just you wait Prof Higgins"

untl SRKris gives me that powerful to search

Coming to think of it, Prof Higgins suits you so well. :roll

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 05 Nov 2005, 22:43

meena,

thanks

DRS,

meena is right but the link did not carry any photo. Reason for this could be that by the time you looked up it was already Nov 5 in India and Nov 4 page of SOM had gone in to archives ! However, if you could go back to SOM home page and click on the Archives window for paper dated 4 nov and further on special features window you can still find the original article with few pictures.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 05 Nov 2005, 23:16

Raja Chandra
I tried doing that yesterday itself. It did not work. I even did a search. It showed the name of the temple but could not be clicked on. May be they were in the process of archiving it :wink

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 05 Nov 2005, 23:23

CML
I do not see any specific reason for the connection between nATa and gaNapati except that nATa is a ghana rAga and also a very bright rAga that is rendered first in concerts(like gauLa) to brighten the mood and set the stage for the concert. gaNapati is AdipUjita and hence they are but necessarily paired. There are several kRtis in nATa in prasie of 'other' deities. Apart from the one you have mentioned and the one of oDeyar we just discussed there are

swAminAtha paripAlaya- MD`s kRti on ShaNmukha
pavanAtamajAgaccha- MD`s kRti on hanumanta
paramESvara jagadISvara- MD`s kRti on ISvara
lalATAkSha namOstute- HMB`s kRti on ISvara
vEdamAtE- HMB`s kRti
SrI padmanAbham- tuLasIvanam kRti on padmanAbha

I am sure there are several more.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Nov 2005, 00:22

coolkarni
No problem waiting!
But now-a-days
the rain in spain seems to stay mainly in the plains

For a change even Higgins nATTai will be entertaining

(you have promised his full concert anyway!)

DRS
I am aware of the different kritis on other deities in nATTai. I am looking for the reason for the mystic association. (at least I think there is an esoteric reason!).

meena
You wrote sometime ago about associating kavittuvam in nATya in nATTai being associated with Ganesa. Any special connections...

Darshan
Any Tantric/musical connections...

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Nov 2005, 01:05

cml

sorry i do not recall posting.

But i did post on bboard when someone enquired and wanted to know what was Kavuthuvam etc.

Will look up my dance books and see any info i can find.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Nov 2005, 02:29

meena
checkout
http://www.sangeetham.com/bboard/quest. ... 27&forid=5

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Nov 2005, 03:48

Sorry and thanks cml,

one composed by TQ:

gaNEsha kavuttuvam.rAgA: nATa. Adi tALA.

dhttitei tAm dhittitei tAm dhittitei tattatu tattattAm
tattattAm tattattAm kutta kiTTa giNNa tomkaTaku tAm tom
tamkuku tamkuku tamkuku dhIm tAm kutta kiTTa giNNa tonkaTaku tAm tonka
tAtamki tamki kiTataka tikki tAm tattattAm tatta
tirikiTu tOm tOm tikundAri dhikkiTa kiTataka tikkutonka
arutiru maruganE vighna vinAyaka
vinakkiTTa aruLiya gaNapati jayajaya dhikkiTTa udaraka Dan jaya jaya
dhikkiTTa udaraka Dan giNNam tadhikka tudikkai yAnai mukhattavar
tomkiTa kiTataka tom kuntakka dEvargaL gaNapati
dhikkiTa kiTataka dhikkitomka gaNapati kavuttuvam
kaTravar vinaiyara ukkuTutAm ukkuTutei takku tikku takkiTTa tomkiTa kiTataka
Dantanki kiTataka tikki tAm tattattAm tatta

(audio clip was available on MIO- by B'bay sis. )

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Nov 2005, 08:36

Is this by Vadivelu or Sivanandam?
What is the MIO link?

meena · Post by **meena** » 06 Nov 2005, 09:31

sorry i do not know.

audio clip WAS available!

harikesa · Post by **harikesa** » 06 Nov 2005, 09:42

The only Nattai RTP's that I am aware of are by the genius of Mali.(atleast 2 concerts I have seen in the collections of fellow-collectors of music).

abadri · Post by **abadri** » 07 Nov 2005, 23:52

coolkarni/badri
Is there no RTP in naaTTai at all? I would love to hear one!

CMLsir, sorry for the late reply (it's a super busy time at work).
I can't find Nattai RTPs (unless TNS' Nattai-Kurunji-Nattaikurunji effort
counts - however this one is commercially available)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Nov 2005, 02:47

DRS
Aren't you shocked? nATTai as a ghana raagam is just designed for tAnaM and in spite of our wealth of musical materials no RTP is available :](
I expected our prolific pitAmaha would have rendered it many times

None :]( Could you explain?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 08 Nov 2005, 06:43

I was hoping that coolkarni or badri would manage to locate at least one RTP in nATa. I was aware that there arent too many despite its being a ghana rAga. nATa is by no means a rare rAga but oddly enough artistes do not seem to choose it for RTPs!!!

meena · Post by **meena** » 08 Nov 2005, 06:56

cml/DRS/badri

we do have nattai rtp in our bags-MLV's

deleted ( link is still active was posted by simhapuravasi)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Nov 2005, 07:51

Thanks meena
That is a very good one too!

abadri · Post by **abadri** » 08 Nov 2005, 08:04

Meena, CMLsir,

I'm afraid that's a mis-labelled track. It's an RTP in Nattaikurunji not Nattai.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Nov 2005, 08:28

Badri
You are quite right. Just heard it . The first line tells us it is naaTTaikurinji. Stupid of me not to have listened but look at just the label.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Nov 2005, 08:32

..In fact there is none even at Sivakumar's manodharma site.