what is this raga

vivek2009 · Post by **vivek2009** » 28 Oct 2009, 23:20

There is a song "ennai konja konja konja konja vaa maziyae" in movie Aathi.
Can Anyone tell which raga it is. The song can be heard here , link below, and ignore the first
21 sec of the song. I guess the song is pure carnatic and can be attributed to a raga.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVJjUk5X5UM

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 28 Oct 2009, 23:30

may be jaunpuri!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2009, 01:56

Some malhAr? mEgh malhAr?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Oct 2009, 03:27

Ignoring the loud interruptions I distinctly hear an element of Kanada!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 29 Oct 2009, 06:02

kApi or some derivative of it (it does have kApi's ascent as in r2-m-p-n3-s and the kAnada-like (as welll as kApi-like) ga.

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2009, 07:31

I am not used to listening to today's film music except when I see them on the forum. To me, it's like those children's picture puzzles where you find the hidden objects-- trying to distinctly see a rAgam in a movie song!
After that hurried hearing, I heard it again (the lyrics kept interrupting!)
This time, I distinctly heard kanaDa, durbAri kAnaDa. Yet, listen to the background (instrumental) bits--thay still sound like mEgh malhar to me). Will find kApi if I hear it again, perhaps. Hear no jOnpuri either.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 29 Oct 2009, 08:48

There is kAnaDA with durbar (

)in it; and in certain place it sounds like misra kApi-'poonguyil koovum poonjOlaiyi oru nAL'.

vivek2009 · Post by **vivek2009** » 29 Oct 2009, 10:16

hi, all,
Thanks for the opinion. I thought it is pure & carnatically one unique raga. It sounds like a
impure and mix of many raga if someone in this forum cannot get it clearly.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Oct 2009, 10:51

I sense some Miyan Ki Malhar here and there. ( bole re papihara being my only reference )

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2009, 21:59

VK,
Do we still have that RTP in miyAn ki malhAr that Suryaprakash sang?
In film songs (I only know the oldies!), it reminded me of part of a song. Is it from jhanak jhanak pAyal bAjE? a rAgamAlikA: rutu basant Ayi--and the caraNam goes like this; Ayi hai ghaTA! umaD gumaD.
Ravi might zero in on it.
Yes, it's like looking at a children's puzzle with hidden objects, finding rAgams in a film song.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 29 Oct 2009, 22:57

Wow! how difficult some times to figure the correct ragam!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Oct 2009, 00:58

Arasi: Great memory recall.. Based on what you wrote I could track down the songs...

Here is rutu basant Ayi: http://ww.smashits.com/music/oldies/pla ... pavan.html

( beware, smashhits can put up some pop-up advertisements )

While I was at it, I happened to hear the title song Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baje: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6U0WfciOE

This also sounds to be in the same complex. Some website refers to the raga for this as Adana.

Vasant Desai seemed to have had a special fascination for that groups of ragas.

To my untrained ears, many ragas in that complex sound similar, some bordering on darbari kanada/kanada as others have opined.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Oct 2009, 07:45

Thanks, VK for the search! I got to hear some of my old favorites after a long time! They are easier than the modern ones for us to get a sense of the rAgam. Nowadays, it's mishr this, mishr that rAgams that we glimpse in them. That pahADi bit that Lata sings in rut basant was my first experience of listening to the rAgam, and I just loved it. Still do. I saw the movie four times! Vasant Desai's music at its best. Shantaram's rainbow hued classic. Gopikrishna's dancing, Sandhya's impressive debut, first full length technicolor film? CML to the rescue.
The other song: nain se nain nahin milAo was bhAgEsri then to me. I did not know rAgESri then. Now I wonder.
A propos, does this thread beong here or in the Light Music Section?
Oh, someone I know who is an expert, thinks it is miyAn ki malhAr.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 30 Oct 2009, 08:28

Arasi: nain so nain nAhIn milAye: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JrperVNumg (I am sure you got to see it from the clip of the title song).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:33

Thank you, Ravi. That was how kannambADi gardens (Krishna Raja Sagar) looked when illuminated!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Oct 2009, 10:10

Oh, someone I know who is an expert, thinks it is miyAn ki malhAr.

I assume that is for the thadaku thadaku song in the first post.

Cool. You and I got to the malhAr complex alright. Mine was based on some trace level similarity, so I am quite thrilled.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Oct 2009, 10:18

VK,
True! I felt quite happy too that my 'guesses' match expert views! By the way, you kind of belong there, in the experts camp when I go with my instincts

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 31 Oct 2009, 00:20

Isn't miyan-ka-malhar the HM equivalent of Kanada invented by Tansen?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 31 Oct 2009, 01:20

>By the way, you kind of belong there, in the experts camp

You sure jest Arasi

Mine is intuition based as well, no swara id skills. This 'expert' sometimes can not latch on to the most common raga while it is staring right at me. In fact, once it was kAnaDa of all the ragas!! Quite shameful but I have learned to accept it

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Oct 2009, 01:28

Ah, but scientist you surely are! Some of your analytical posts makes me feel like 'paTTik kATTAn miTTAik kaDAiyaip pArppatu pOL'! Of course, where would you find a good scientist who does not arrive at conclusions without his intuitive abilities guiding him too?

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 31 Oct 2009, 09:52

Nain - so -nain--- Bageshree, surely? assuming that the opening note is 'ma'- does it not go:

G; G M,M G R M G R S
nain so nain na hi mi la a o
N S R G R S
De kha ta soo ra ta

M D N D (md) M;; rgmdmg
aa wa ta laaj - saiin yaa

etc??? Sorry for the inaccurate notation--

Unless the opening note is something else?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Nov 2009, 00:54

I was attracted to the 'tha tha ku tha tha ku' like constant beat of the film song in the above youtube link.. To my own delight, and probably unsurprisingly, I found that I can play to that kind of a beat extemporaneously with much more ease. That is my difficulty with the more classical rhythm.

I took a sample of the back beat, created a loop and played some lighter music over it. It is based on a raga, though not a common one. I am enclosing two links.

These are single shot recordings created on the fly. There are imperfections with such attempts, so please bear with me.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/87e7bf65-f391 ... uteEdited2 ( short one, the beat is fainter )

http://www.esnips.com/doc/f3d93f3a-96cc ... FullFlute2 ( longer one, the beat more to the front, different melodic line )

Let me know if you like it. You can try to guess the raga.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Nov 2009, 05:54

Radhika,
I thought it sounded like bhAgESri when I saw the film that many years ago! I don't know if it is rAgESri either!
The opening svarams come across to me as: gA ga mA ma ga ri mA ga ri sa

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Nov 2009, 06:37

Nice rhythm VK! Good for a tango dance. Notes are Sankarabharanam.
Is it kOkiladhvani

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 02 Nov 2009, 17:53

Arasi-
You are right - the opening notes - my mistake- however, it is still Bageshree, I think. UNLESS what we think is ga-ga-ma-ma is something else -ni-ni- sa-sa or something!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Nov 2009, 22:13

Radhika,
I only have a ear, or rather two, both of which are getting to be a bit sluggish in hearing...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Nov 2009, 06:12

cmlover wrote:Nice rhythm VK! Good for a tango dance. Notes are Sankarabharanam.
Is it kOkiladhvani

Thanks CML. Notes are not Sankarabharanam ones. May be you are latching on to a different sruthi. This is in C# ( 1 .5 kattai )

Hint on the raga: There is only one composition in this raga and that is not by the trinity.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Nov 2009, 06:45

arasi wrote:Radhika,
I only have a ear, or rather two, both of which are getting to be a bit sluggish in hearing...

My doctors, son and daughter in law, convinced me to accept my disability and advised me to go for hearing aid and I did.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 03 Nov 2009, 07:18

Aha!!! I have 2 more companions in sluggish hearing. In my case it was my wife who compelled me to go for a hearing aid,which I did. She used to be irritated whenever I asked her to repeat what she was telling her neighbour. She used to say' get a hearing aid if you are interested in vambu' i used to say 'so you admit that you are only talking vambu!!
Though I have drifted hundreds of miles away from the main subject,just joking gobilalitha

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Nov 2009, 07:30

VK
in that case I may not have heard this raga. But I liked the rhythm and melody. Listened to it a few times. You may as well let us know...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Nov 2009, 08:02

Dayavathi

S R2 G2 P N2 S
S N2 P M1 G2 S

The only composition I know of in this raga is by N. S. Ramachandran, a beautiful thillana which MLV has sung.
Here is the previous discussion on dayavathi ( http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... avati.html )

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Nov 2009, 08:34

I would never have guessed!
A rose by whatever name smells good; kokilam sounds sweet and rhythmic called by whatever raga!
Your playing has improved tremendously.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Nov 2009, 09:57

VK,
For some reason, I couldn't download it. Could you please send it to me?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Nov 2009, 02:27

Just heard your playing (part of it? I had problems even now).
The rhythm really got you and you rock! Sounds folksy too, to me. I loved the occasional punches you give to the tune--the final pa (pow!) rounds it all up.
From an original vasanthakOkladhwani to a never heard rAgam based composition. CML is right, you are making strides...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 05 Nov 2009, 03:41

It is definitely mian-ki-malhAr.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Nov 2009, 05:21

Lakshman,
You mean 'nain se nain'?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 05 Nov 2009, 05:28

No I mean the utube song. nain so nain is in bAgEshrI.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Nov 2009, 05:45

Of course, bhAgESri, but I wondered if it could be rAgESri!
There have been several , including VK's and I got mixed up! Sorry

So, my guess about the malhAr family was not way off the mark.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 05 Nov 2009, 09:01

No, no, Arasi - the gandhar is komal gandhar in 'nain so nain'- Bageshree. For rageshree you need shuddh gandhar (antara gandharam).
Looks like we have hijacked the discussion from the song in question to 'nain-so-nain' --sorry, rasikas!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Nov 2009, 09:49

Radhika,
I see!

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 05 Nov 2009, 14:46

I just found this info from Abhijit Bhaduri's site:
There are just a handful of hindi film songs based on Raga Malgunji. Nain So Nain Naahi Milaao from the film Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baje is one of them.

Malgunji is a complex Raga of the Khamaj Thaat. John Campana describes Malgunji as having elements of Rageshri, Bageshri and a few subtle touches of Jaijaiwanti. It is popularly described as being a combination of Raga Rageshri (in the ascent) and Raga Bageshri ( in the descent). If traditionally Bageshri evokes feelings of separation from the lover, and Rageshri represents reunion, Malgunji depicts the initial realization of the reunion.

So that's another new raga we've learnt.
Lovely raga! Now someone needs to play it at a rasikas' gathering!
And Arasi should compose something in it!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:03

A fine example of mian ki malhar is a Surdas bhajan by Pandit Jasraj, shyAm binA, available at musicindiaonline.com

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/jJX ... As1NMvHdW/

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:40

I found out that mAlgunji uses both tIvra and kOmal gAndhAras whereas bAgEshrI uses only the kOmal ga.

KMH · Post by **KMH** » 29 Nov 2009, 01:26

I looked up Malagunji in B Subba Rao's Raganidhi. An unbelievably detailed description, with swaras used in pakads (?pidippu in our parlance), and examples of chalans (sancharams). He points out that this is a Audava-Sampoorna raga (and a possible shadava-sampoorna variety), but does not mention the Rageshree angle at all, while saying it is sung with a bageshree anga. He quotes two compositions in Malagunji, "Baname charavata Gaiyya" in Ek Tal and "Muraliki DhunaSuni" in Teental. (does any rasika have a rendition by anyone?) He adds that Madhuradhwani, Hamsakankini and Patamanjari - both of Hindustani style - resemble Malagunji. I have heard Patamanjari (which is similar to carnatik Phalamanjari), but can't remember when or where! The other two are totally unknown to me. Interestingly, he says Natakurinji has shades of Malagunji, although only antara gandharam is used in Natakurinji, while Komal ga is used in Malagunji.