Sirs
Though There is another thread about this Talanga I am starting here with another reason. It follows thus:
Recently I had been to Mantralayam to take part in the Naadahaaram Festival organised by Maharajapuram Santanam Rasikas Trust (Report Available at a different thread under Music and Festivals Heading). During the Festival Dr.T.K.Murthy Sir played a Tani Avartanam from one of the 108 Talas Called "JAYAMANGALA" for which he said the Angas are 2 Laghus+ One Guru+2 Laghus and One Guru (4+4+8+4+4+8) making the total aksharas to 32. Jayamangala Tala according to Prof.Sambamurthy in South Indian Music (dont remember the volume right now i shall give later) lists this tala to be having the following anga ---> 1-Laghu,1-Guru,1-Pluta,1-Laghu, 1-Guru,1-Pluta. According to this the total aksharas come to 48 (4+8+12+4+8+12). More over the Guru Was shown in a different method (closed fist with 4 aksharakalas at the bottom and closed fist with 4 aksharakalas at the top instead of 8 Aksharakaalas with closed fist circular motion from right to left).
I am not trying to find fault with the doyen here. My interest here only to enhance my knowledge. There are theory and practice. What the doyen might have done is out of practice. So experienced practitioners would like to throw light on the above aspect both with the total Akshara for Jayamangala Tala with Angas and also with respect to the Representation of Guru in the light of this particular reference. Would also like to know in practice how the Guru was represented by the doyen was also acceptable.
Once again I have cited this as an incident only and I am in no way finding fault with the Doyen musician. It is only with clarification of my doubt i am raising this question. I admit ignorance and all my efforts here in this forum is only in the sense of Learning and enriching the knowledge (both mine and other readers).
Thank you in advance
JB
Talaanga-GURU-Representation
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear member, mridhangam, (‘Mridhangam’ sounds odd. Would you mind to kindly modify it ‘mridangam’?)
Note:- ‘D’ indicates Druta, ‘DV’ indicates Druta-virama, ‘L’ indicates Laghu ‘G’ indicates Guru and ‘P’ indicates Pluta.
As per Sangita Samaya Sara, Sangita Ratnakara, Sangita Darpana, 38th Chaturashra-jati-tala-bheda of Sangita Choodamani, 4th Ashta-matrika-tala of Sangotopanishatsaroddhara and Bharatarnava this Tala ‘JAYAMANGALA’ carries ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’. This Tala carries ‘D, DV’ as per the Mataantara-talas of Sangita Darpana, ‘L- L- P- L- P- P’ as per Panchavidha-talanga-talas of Sangita Choodamani, ‘L- G- P- L- G- P’ as per South Indian Music Vol. IV, ‘L- L- L- D’ as per Sangita Sara.
Among all the works on Tala of the ancient period, fortunately enough, Sangita Samaya Saara had started on a well disciplined note furnishing serial numbers also to the Talas listed in it which helps to prove the authenticity of origin of any rhythmical form. Thus, 52 Talas are furnished in Sangita Samaya Saara along with serial numbers and, unfortunately, 25 numbers of them are found incorrect (refer p.117 of ‘Indian Genius of Talaprastara’ and p. 4, 43, 44 & 64 of ‘Systematisation of Prastara Details of Deshi Talas’ written by me). among which this ‘Jayamangala’ carrying ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’ was furnished as the 33rd. But, most unfortunately, in the absence of the correct knowledge of Talaprastara and also to avoid such embarrassment of furnishing incorrect serial numbers, Nisshanka Shargadeva the Great, had dared to furnish a new set of 120 Talas including one Tala each in his title (Nisshanka-tala - 119th) and his own name (Sharngadeva-tala - 120th) but without any serial numbers at all. Thus, even at that period, again the in-discipline crept into the works on Tala which has successfully and unanimously been maintained by one and all and we all have lost the track of the Talaprastara for nine centuries together until the Almighty had blessed me with all the latent secrets of it and made me write three original works on this topic. According to ‘Talaprastara’ the 33rd serial number carries ‘D- D- D- D- G- L- P’ and ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’ carries the 299th serial number. These are the facts and figures of our ‘JAYAMANGALA’ and, now; the choice is ours to choose one among them. In the absence of the knowledge of Talaprastara, I think, it is the birth-right of anybody to choose any rhythmical form of his own and to name it as ‘Jayamangala’. Nobody can also question it. And, in the same manner in which people are ready to misinterpret the technical terms like Maatra, Akshara, Kriya etc., according to their own Ghar-ka-Gharaana, anybody can also demonstrate the Talangas in his own way like making Kakapada, a Nisshbdanga, into a Sashabdanga, in the absence of the correct Shastra-Jnaana. In fact, it is the duty of the elderly people to maintain the discipline being ideal to the next generations, if at all they feel it. msakella.
Note:- ‘D’ indicates Druta, ‘DV’ indicates Druta-virama, ‘L’ indicates Laghu ‘G’ indicates Guru and ‘P’ indicates Pluta.
As per Sangita Samaya Sara, Sangita Ratnakara, Sangita Darpana, 38th Chaturashra-jati-tala-bheda of Sangita Choodamani, 4th Ashta-matrika-tala of Sangotopanishatsaroddhara and Bharatarnava this Tala ‘JAYAMANGALA’ carries ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’. This Tala carries ‘D, DV’ as per the Mataantara-talas of Sangita Darpana, ‘L- L- P- L- P- P’ as per Panchavidha-talanga-talas of Sangita Choodamani, ‘L- G- P- L- G- P’ as per South Indian Music Vol. IV, ‘L- L- L- D’ as per Sangita Sara.
Among all the works on Tala of the ancient period, fortunately enough, Sangita Samaya Saara had started on a well disciplined note furnishing serial numbers also to the Talas listed in it which helps to prove the authenticity of origin of any rhythmical form. Thus, 52 Talas are furnished in Sangita Samaya Saara along with serial numbers and, unfortunately, 25 numbers of them are found incorrect (refer p.117 of ‘Indian Genius of Talaprastara’ and p. 4, 43, 44 & 64 of ‘Systematisation of Prastara Details of Deshi Talas’ written by me). among which this ‘Jayamangala’ carrying ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’ was furnished as the 33rd. But, most unfortunately, in the absence of the correct knowledge of Talaprastara and also to avoid such embarrassment of furnishing incorrect serial numbers, Nisshanka Shargadeva the Great, had dared to furnish a new set of 120 Talas including one Tala each in his title (Nisshanka-tala - 119th) and his own name (Sharngadeva-tala - 120th) but without any serial numbers at all. Thus, even at that period, again the in-discipline crept into the works on Tala which has successfully and unanimously been maintained by one and all and we all have lost the track of the Talaprastara for nine centuries together until the Almighty had blessed me with all the latent secrets of it and made me write three original works on this topic. According to ‘Talaprastara’ the 33rd serial number carries ‘D- D- D- D- G- L- P’ and ‘L- L- G - L- L- G’ carries the 299th serial number. These are the facts and figures of our ‘JAYAMANGALA’ and, now; the choice is ours to choose one among them. In the absence of the knowledge of Talaprastara, I think, it is the birth-right of anybody to choose any rhythmical form of his own and to name it as ‘Jayamangala’. Nobody can also question it. And, in the same manner in which people are ready to misinterpret the technical terms like Maatra, Akshara, Kriya etc., according to their own Ghar-ka-Gharaana, anybody can also demonstrate the Talangas in his own way like making Kakapada, a Nisshbdanga, into a Sashabdanga, in the absence of the correct Shastra-Jnaana. In fact, it is the duty of the elderly people to maintain the discipline being ideal to the next generations, if at all they feel it. msakella.
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mridhangam
- Posts: 976
- Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
Sir Thank you very much for the explanation. sir i wanted another doubt also to be cleared as to the representation of GURU. kindly clarify sir.
Regarding the name change i wish to point out that as i didnt have the mridangam ID originally in Yahoo when i registerd abt 15 years ago i am retaining this spelling (h silent) for all my activities for simplicity and also for uniformity.
thanks
JB
Regarding the name change i wish to point out that as i didnt have the mridangam ID originally in Yahoo when i registerd abt 15 years ago i am retaining this spelling (h silent) for all my activities for simplicity and also for uniformity.
thanks
JB
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear member, mridhangam, No harm if you make ‘h’ silent, but, please don’t make mridangam silent as we all are more interested in listening to your mridangam than ‘h’.
According to many books on Tala the Guru consists of Kriyas, Dhruvaka, the beat of the right hand + Sarpini, moving it towards left like a flag with the palm facing downwards
+ Krishna, moving it towards right totaling to the duration of three Laghus. There may be different traditions in rendering these Kriyas as per their Ghar-ka-gharana. We can’t help!
msakella.
According to many books on Tala the Guru consists of Kriyas, Dhruvaka, the beat of the right hand + Sarpini, moving it towards left like a flag with the palm facing downwards
+ Krishna, moving it towards right totaling to the duration of three Laghus. There may be different traditions in rendering these Kriyas as per their Ghar-ka-gharana. We can’t help!
msakella.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear member, sbala, ‘Pancha laghvaksharocchaaramita matreha kathyate’ - the total duration to utter five short syllables, ka-cha-ta-ta-pa, is called Maatra - Sangita Ratnakara - 5.16. ‘Nimeshakalo maatrah’ - the time taken to close and open the eyes naturally is called Maatra - Kalanidhi commentary on Sangita Ratnakara - 5.16. This is almost equal to the duration of second. Irrespective of the units of Jaati, 3 /4 /5 / 7 / 9, containing in each Kriya the duration is of only one second.
Kriya is the manual act used to demonstrate each organ of Tala.
Akshara, i.e., Laghvakshara is the name of 1-unit. Ki-ta-ta-ka of 4-units, ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 5-units and so on. This can also be called ‘Amsha’. msakella.
Kriya is the manual act used to demonstrate each organ of Tala.
Akshara, i.e., Laghvakshara is the name of 1-unit. Ki-ta-ta-ka of 4-units, ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 5-units and so on. This can also be called ‘Amsha’. msakella.
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msakella
- Posts: 2127
- Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 21:16
Dear member, sbala, The duration of second will and should never change at all and in the same manner the duration of Matra also should not change. But, our artists are so great that they will readily make any change according to their will and pleasure and attribute it to the tradition like the un-usual range of Gamaka of Sadharana-gandhara, Shuddha-madhyama and Kaishiki-nishada of our Karnataka-music. Even in respect of Eka-kala ( Yathakshara) or Dvi-kala or Chatushkala of Marga-talas the duration of each Anga was doubled without disturbing the duration of Matra. In the same manner, in rendering our Adi-tala also, we are doubling the duration of each Kriya to render it in slow tempo. This, in Eka-kala our Adi-tala should complete a cycle in 8 seconds, in two-kalas 16 seconds and in four-kalas 32 seconds. amsharma.
Last edited by msakella on 13 Mar 2007, 02:19, edited 1 time in total.