I am an ameteur mridangam player with a fair knowledge of intricacies of percussion and tala system. I had the good fortune of learning from Guru late Sri T R Hariharasharma for many years. I trust every genuine carnatic music lover would be overwhelmed to listening to a neat mejastic tani avartam in every concert irrespective of the age and experience of the artistes as one enjoys the melody. Before I venture into discussing some technical and practical aspects of present scenerio compared to the past, I request interested members to respond to some of my basic questions on percussion in general and tani in particular.
1. What in your opinion is a good tani?
2. Do you like more than one percussion on stage? If so/not why?
3. Any particular artiste's live performance captivated you - why?
4. How would you distinguish between a tani and an accompanyment?
Well, I have been asking myself these questions and arrived at unbaised conculsions as a genuine rasika. I had the opportunity to interact with some of the percussion artistes of three generations at different times gettng opinions and observing their actions and reactions with co-artistes from a distance. I reserve all my views for the time being but promise to come out with frank,unprejudiced and justifiable opinions later. Would appreciate serious and enthusiastic responses.
What makes a Tani interesting?
-
sankirnam
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 14:18
This is difficult to answer... it is like asking "what makes a concert interesting?". Obviously, variety of songs, composers, ragams and thalams will make a concert interesting, but there is always something more. Similarly, variety of speeds and sounds and nadais played during a thani will make it interesting.
1. It is difficult to define what a good thani is. I have heard, in my collection, UKS sir playing a short 5 minute, very electrifying thani for Madurai Mani Iyer's Sukhi Evvaro. On the flip side, UKS sir plays a 45 minute thani in Adi thalam in his album "Laya-Dhara" that is also very mesmerising. A good thani should capture the audience's attention, whether the audience is novices, or whether it is being played in front of other big artists at Madras Music Academy.
2. Upapakkavadyam adds flavor and variety to thani, and also affords the mrudangist some opportunity to rest. Thus, in solo thanis, you may see the mrudangist pacing himself conservatively, in order to conserve stamina and spread the energy evenly throughout the thani, especially towards the end, becuase the farens and mohara will require a lot of energy. However, with upapakkavadyam, it is sometimes more common to see bursts of speed. Mrudangists will be more likely to play very fast farens based korvais in tisram or kandam for example, and then rest during ghatam or kanjira's turn.
3. I was able to go to the season last december, and I saw a variety of artists playing. Of course, Sankaran and UKS sir both gave outstanding thanis at all the concerts I went to. I remember two of Sankaran's thanis were very good, one for Vijay Siva at Sastri Hall, where he elaborated on chatusram and tisram, playing all his classic tisram korvais. The other was at PS High School for TMK, and he elaborated on misra nadai that concert, with BSP on kanjira.
The UKS and Sundarkumar combination seems like it could be the new legendary combination, just like UKS and Harisankar. Sundarkumar is an amazing kanjira player, able to provide a perfect foil for UKS sir, and following and replicating UKS sir's uncanny speed with ease. UKS sir also was enjoying his playing at the concerts I went to.
4. Thaniavarthanam is a solo by the percussionists, and as such, is not considered a type of accompaniment, since the percussion is the lead in that section of the concert, not the melody.
1. It is difficult to define what a good thani is. I have heard, in my collection, UKS sir playing a short 5 minute, very electrifying thani for Madurai Mani Iyer's Sukhi Evvaro. On the flip side, UKS sir plays a 45 minute thani in Adi thalam in his album "Laya-Dhara" that is also very mesmerising. A good thani should capture the audience's attention, whether the audience is novices, or whether it is being played in front of other big artists at Madras Music Academy.
2. Upapakkavadyam adds flavor and variety to thani, and also affords the mrudangist some opportunity to rest. Thus, in solo thanis, you may see the mrudangist pacing himself conservatively, in order to conserve stamina and spread the energy evenly throughout the thani, especially towards the end, becuase the farens and mohara will require a lot of energy. However, with upapakkavadyam, it is sometimes more common to see bursts of speed. Mrudangists will be more likely to play very fast farens based korvais in tisram or kandam for example, and then rest during ghatam or kanjira's turn.
3. I was able to go to the season last december, and I saw a variety of artists playing. Of course, Sankaran and UKS sir both gave outstanding thanis at all the concerts I went to. I remember two of Sankaran's thanis were very good, one for Vijay Siva at Sastri Hall, where he elaborated on chatusram and tisram, playing all his classic tisram korvais. The other was at PS High School for TMK, and he elaborated on misra nadai that concert, with BSP on kanjira.
The UKS and Sundarkumar combination seems like it could be the new legendary combination, just like UKS and Harisankar. Sundarkumar is an amazing kanjira player, able to provide a perfect foil for UKS sir, and following and replicating UKS sir's uncanny speed with ease. UKS sir also was enjoying his playing at the concerts I went to.
4. Thaniavarthanam is a solo by the percussionists, and as such, is not considered a type of accompaniment, since the percussion is the lead in that section of the concert, not the melody.
-
Nick H
- Posts: 9385
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
1. What in your opinion is a good tani?
Perhaps this is laziness on my part, but I have to say: one that I can enjoy without understanding it! One where the mathematics translates into music, whether the audience is counting or not.
2. Do you like more than one percussion on stage? If so/not why?
Yes, I do, just as I enjoy the interplay and variety in the interaction and turns between vocalist and violinist. It helps also to punctuate and accentuate the thani, deliniating the sections. There is no comparison between a koraipu played by one person and a koraipu played by two or more people. We see on stage the human drama in this interaction: a missed turn or mistake can be all a part of this wonderful improvised music. However, there are times I feel that a "full bench" thani can be a bit too much or a bit too long --- and see point 4.
3. Any particular artiste's live performance captivated you - why?
TVG. For his exceptional catalogue of sounds, including sruthis, and for playing with subtlety that he could soothe a person to sleep with his playing --- not easy on any kind of drum! Guruvayor Dorai --- for his superb quality of sound and musicality of playing, for that superb warbling left-hand gumaka that I don't think anyone else can do. And many others, I guess...
4. How would you distinguish between a tani and an accompanyment?
In the same way that I would distinguish between Mridangam for kutchery and mridangam for dance --- it moves into the spotlight. But the mridangist still has the responsibility not to destroy the atmosphere of the concert; perhaps the best thanis are a part of the song just as the preceding kalpana swaras were. This is very difficult to achieve with a "full bench"
Perhaps this is laziness on my part, but I have to say: one that I can enjoy without understanding it! One where the mathematics translates into music, whether the audience is counting or not.
2. Do you like more than one percussion on stage? If so/not why?
Yes, I do, just as I enjoy the interplay and variety in the interaction and turns between vocalist and violinist. It helps also to punctuate and accentuate the thani, deliniating the sections. There is no comparison between a koraipu played by one person and a koraipu played by two or more people. We see on stage the human drama in this interaction: a missed turn or mistake can be all a part of this wonderful improvised music. However, there are times I feel that a "full bench" thani can be a bit too much or a bit too long --- and see point 4.
3. Any particular artiste's live performance captivated you - why?
TVG. For his exceptional catalogue of sounds, including sruthis, and for playing with subtlety that he could soothe a person to sleep with his playing --- not easy on any kind of drum! Guruvayor Dorai --- for his superb quality of sound and musicality of playing, for that superb warbling left-hand gumaka that I don't think anyone else can do. And many others, I guess...
4. How would you distinguish between a tani and an accompanyment?
In the same way that I would distinguish between Mridangam for kutchery and mridangam for dance --- it moves into the spotlight. But the mridangist still has the responsibility not to destroy the atmosphere of the concert; perhaps the best thanis are a part of the song just as the preceding kalpana swaras were. This is very difficult to achieve with a "full bench"
)-
mridhangam
- Posts: 976
- Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
No No People are busy with more specific topics like Talaprastara, Swarakalpana and Structuring Korvai hahahahahahah. You only have left the Structuring the Korvai suddenly and jumped to this topic. You only mentioned that korvai learning is like being at home with your guru again .. in that thread. Ok Just joking. I would take part in this too at a later time. Till then ....
J.Balaji
J.Balaji
-
sathsangeethapriyan
- Posts: 39
- Joined: 01 Apr 2007, 01:10
Dear Sbala If someone says Thani is boring, it sounds like I like my mother but hate my father! Infact for many carnatic music rasikas percussion was the first attraction to sit and listen. Well I started the thread with the specific reason to find out what someone knows about and what someone expects of a TANI. Let me wait for more specific answers, opinions and options (nothing wrong in branding 'boring' but with substance). If we can appreciate vivadi, raga lakshana, sahithya bhava etc and attempt to discuss, why not tani?
-
arasi
- Posts: 16794
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Here I am, weak in tAlA, but I don't find tanis boring. Far from it. I love them, 'when all the mathematics turns to music', as Nick so aptly put it.
As uneducated in tALA as I am, I have my favorites too. All kaNakku pros who make music of it. UKs, GuruvAyUr, Sankaran and others. There are others who may not be fireworks in tani, but are valuable as accompanists, though tani is what is being discussed here--rAmabhadran, Arunprakash among the younger ones, and incidentally, I do not get to hear about Ramdas. I have heard him a few times and like his playing very much.
mridangam,
I would very much like to hear you too!
As for more than one percussionist in a concert, yes, the lively exchange adds interest, but a full bench, as Nick points out, can be overwhelming--sometimes making an anticlimax of a beautifully rendered main or RTP.
Sankiram,
You add substance to the topic. Hope others join in too.
For a novice, I have come to look forward to the tanis. It is like this. Easy clues are fine in a crossword puzzle, but it is the 'toughies' that excite you. I like to hear a tani for that very reason...
As uneducated in tALA as I am, I have my favorites too. All kaNakku pros who make music of it. UKs, GuruvAyUr, Sankaran and others. There are others who may not be fireworks in tani, but are valuable as accompanists, though tani is what is being discussed here--rAmabhadran, Arunprakash among the younger ones, and incidentally, I do not get to hear about Ramdas. I have heard him a few times and like his playing very much.
mridangam,
I would very much like to hear you too!
As for more than one percussionist in a concert, yes, the lively exchange adds interest, but a full bench, as Nick points out, can be overwhelming--sometimes making an anticlimax of a beautifully rendered main or RTP.
Sankiram,
You add substance to the topic. Hope others join in too.
For a novice, I have come to look forward to the tanis. It is like this. Easy clues are fine in a crossword puzzle, but it is the 'toughies' that excite you. I like to hear a tani for that very reason...
Last edited by arasi on 06 Apr 2007, 04:46, edited 1 time in total.
-
mohan
- Posts: 2807
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52
For me, the thani should be initially be an extension of the krithi. UKS is the master of this technique where the highlight of the krithi is portrayed at the beginning the thani but many others adopt this technique as well. The rest of the thani can build around this theme and introduce a number of rhythmic intracacies.
-
vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
sbala
- Posts: 629
- Joined: 30 Jul 2006, 08:56
Sathsangeethpriya,
Personally, I look forward to the thani. My statement reflects the current state of affairs in concerts where people walk out during the thani. You can't ask them the question u asked..It's like those old Palmolive ad where Kapil Dev is asked "Which shaving cream do u use?". Instead, you have to ask them "Why don't you use a shaving cream?". So, I'm not trying to take anything away from your posts but just providing another perspective to the discussion..
Personally, I look forward to the thani. My statement reflects the current state of affairs in concerts where people walk out during the thani. You can't ask them the question u asked..It's like those old Palmolive ad where Kapil Dev is asked "Which shaving cream do u use?". Instead, you have to ask them "Why don't you use a shaving cream?". So, I'm not trying to take anything away from your posts but just providing another perspective to the discussion..
-
mohan
- Posts: 2807
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52
-
sathsangeethapriyan
- Posts: 39
- Joined: 01 Apr 2007, 01:10
Thank you buddies for the responses. I expect a lot more.
Why should we check on the tani?
Every genuine rasika always looks at a wholesome concert. Ofcourse some have rasikas have an extra admiration for the - soothing flow of solfas, the glissandos , the breathtaking furls, some authentic punches, quick posers and retrots to the least denomination, the thrilling culmination and the united perfect mystifying finish [ i have purposefully avoided technical terms] - even though they may understand rules, principles, conventions, order or formulae behind the performance. Are there so much?! do not be shocked. There many percussionists and singers who would pounce to redicule these.
With due respects to the respondents I would like to give a basic clarification -- It is the percussionist who should first think on what a good or interesting tani is. It is his opportunity to show his special designs, sound and fingering techniques and understanding and leadership qualities in the right proportion and texture be it an extension, attachment or expansion! He must draw the attention of the audience like a vocalist does while rendering a raga. If the percussionist justs fills a ten minute duration with some stuff for duty sake or to dutifully satify the center performer with muted performance and "nothing special about it" attitude.
This observation leaves with us a handful of percussionists who work on the aesthetics, arithmetics, permutations and combinations, tonal quality, light and shade effects, punches, body language all presented in a distinct style - which are prerequsites for any fine art. I would request the members to come out with real experiences with specialists and avoid discussing all and sundry.
Why should we check on the tani?
Every genuine rasika always looks at a wholesome concert. Ofcourse some have rasikas have an extra admiration for the - soothing flow of solfas, the glissandos , the breathtaking furls, some authentic punches, quick posers and retrots to the least denomination, the thrilling culmination and the united perfect mystifying finish [ i have purposefully avoided technical terms] - even though they may understand rules, principles, conventions, order or formulae behind the performance. Are there so much?! do not be shocked. There many percussionists and singers who would pounce to redicule these.
With due respects to the respondents I would like to give a basic clarification -- It is the percussionist who should first think on what a good or interesting tani is. It is his opportunity to show his special designs, sound and fingering techniques and understanding and leadership qualities in the right proportion and texture be it an extension, attachment or expansion! He must draw the attention of the audience like a vocalist does while rendering a raga. If the percussionist justs fills a ten minute duration with some stuff for duty sake or to dutifully satify the center performer with muted performance and "nothing special about it" attitude.
This observation leaves with us a handful of percussionists who work on the aesthetics, arithmetics, permutations and combinations, tonal quality, light and shade effects, punches, body language all presented in a distinct style - which are prerequsites for any fine art. I would request the members to come out with real experiences with specialists and avoid discussing all and sundry.
Last edited by sathsangeethapriyan on 17 Apr 2007, 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
-
sshankar_1970
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:28
My responses
1. What is a good tani : Difficult to say but something that keeps the audience interested
2. I personally prefer at least one upa pakkavadhyam ... gives a nice flavour
3. My best Tani .. Kariakudi Mani with G Harishankar. UKS with THV comes a very close second .
I heard this in one of TNS concerts in KGS Gokulashtami Series TNS/ Nagai Muralidharan / Karaikudi Mani /Harishankar . I think it was in 84 or 85 .The concert was excellent .I remember an excellent Balagopala in Bhairavi and later a RTP in Hemavathi . But the Tani for Balagopala was the the best part of the concert . It started with a muted applause for Karikudi Mani playing the first round but things really caught fire when Harishankar responded and after that it was a cracker of a Tani ... Lots of Sabash and Besh from TNS ... Later .. SSI who was in the audience went up and gave 100 rupees to both the percussionists !!!
Have gone to many cutcheris after that but have never seen a Tani like that .. Neither has TNS ever captured the form he exhibted that day
1. What is a good tani : Difficult to say but something that keeps the audience interested
2. I personally prefer at least one upa pakkavadhyam ... gives a nice flavour
3. My best Tani .. Kariakudi Mani with G Harishankar. UKS with THV comes a very close second .
I heard this in one of TNS concerts in KGS Gokulashtami Series TNS/ Nagai Muralidharan / Karaikudi Mani /Harishankar . I think it was in 84 or 85 .The concert was excellent .I remember an excellent Balagopala in Bhairavi and later a RTP in Hemavathi . But the Tani for Balagopala was the the best part of the concert . It started with a muted applause for Karikudi Mani playing the first round but things really caught fire when Harishankar responded and after that it was a cracker of a Tani ... Lots of Sabash and Besh from TNS ... Later .. SSI who was in the audience went up and gave 100 rupees to both the percussionists !!!
Have gone to many cutcheris after that but have never seen a Tani like that .. Neither has TNS ever captured the form he exhibted that day
-
sankirnam
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 14:18
Good that this thread was revived, as this section of the forum was starting to become dormant...
Anyway, since this is a thread about what makes thanis interesting, it would be good to have an interesting thani to listen to here. That being said, here is the main piece from the concert ssankar_1970 was talking about (TNS-Nagai-KRM-GH). I have this in my records as 1986, if the year could be confirmed for the sake of archiving it would be nice. I didnt know this concert was held at KGS during Gokulashtami, thanks for the additional info.
http://rapidshare.com/files/64735102/05 ... a.mp3.html
It goes as described, the first round by KRM sir gets little to no applause, but Harisankar gets applause, which prompts a great rally from the two vidwans from then on. TNS says sabash and bale and besh a lot during the thani.
There is another good concert by the same team at the same venue in 1985 that has been commercially released (Sri Krishnam - Thodi main piece).
And that information about SSI is hilarious... usually it is rude to give money like that to sangeetha vidwans, only someone like him would be able to get away with that!
Anyway, since this is a thread about what makes thanis interesting, it would be good to have an interesting thani to listen to here. That being said, here is the main piece from the concert ssankar_1970 was talking about (TNS-Nagai-KRM-GH). I have this in my records as 1986, if the year could be confirmed for the sake of archiving it would be nice. I didnt know this concert was held at KGS during Gokulashtami, thanks for the additional info.
http://rapidshare.com/files/64735102/05 ... a.mp3.html
It goes as described, the first round by KRM sir gets little to no applause, but Harisankar gets applause, which prompts a great rally from the two vidwans from then on. TNS says sabash and bale and besh a lot during the thani.
There is another good concert by the same team at the same venue in 1985 that has been commercially released (Sri Krishnam - Thodi main piece).
And that information about SSI is hilarious... usually it is rude to give money like that to sangeetha vidwans, only someone like him would be able to get away with that!
Last edited by sankirnam on 24 Oct 2007, 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
-
srkris
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3497
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34
Well he belonged to another age, didnt he?sankirnam wrote:And that information about SSI is hilarious... usually it is rude to give money like that to sangeetha vidwans, only someone like him would be able to get away with that!
And for him those two were kids (in terms of age) when he had to encourage whom he felt like it.
I am sure they didnt feel it was rude, in fact exactly the opposite.
-
arasi
- Posts: 16794
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
I think it was a spontaneous reaction on his part to show his appreciation in some way.
After all, he did not wear any ratna hAram (bejewelled necklace) or any other kind of jewelry like the patrons of yore to gift them to the youngsters. Just to be applauded by him would have been sufficient. He was known to be a man who was astute in financial affairs. So, a great compliment to the young artistes, indeed...
After all, he did not wear any ratna hAram (bejewelled necklace) or any other kind of jewelry like the patrons of yore to gift them to the youngsters. Just to be applauded by him would have been sufficient. He was known to be a man who was astute in financial affairs. So, a great compliment to the young artistes, indeed...
-
bhaktha
- Posts: 323
- Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 23:02
God level Thani for the tOdi piece! It starts off with a nice catusram by KRM following it up with a korvai in catusram, tisram and catusram mel kalam. GH responds with an excellent korvai, which prompotly evokes a volley of bales and beshs from TNS. There's another round of Ca/Ti (??), wherein GH plays 5,6,7;5,6,7;5,6,7 combination as the korvai (in tisram), which again is appreciated by TNS. KRM immediately launches in a beautiful tisram, where he plays farrance-type sollus. Then, they launch into a wonderful korrapu,where GH is simply awesome (I can only wonder at the sheer genius of GH and as to how he could assimilate all that KRM played and repeat it in the reverse!!)sankirnam wrote:There is another good concert by the same team at the same venue in 1985 that has been commercially released (Sri Krishnam - Thodi main piece).
The mohra and korvai are simply explosive...especially the korvai where KRM and GH take turns to play the purvangam...One cracker of a thani! It's a long time since I heard it; so some of the above quoted facts might be wrong...but this one is a must-hear.
-bhaktha
Last edited by bhaktha on 28 Oct 2007, 08:09, edited 1 time in total.
-
sshankar_1970
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:28
-
bhaktha
- Posts: 323
- Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 23:02
Yes...Sankirnam is right. The concert is available as a commercial release...KGS with Kosmic. It's available at all leading cassette retail shops. The concert features the bairavi varnam, Azhi mazhai kanna (with some amazing swarams), govardhana giridhari (in hindolam), na manavini in cakravaham, shri krsnam in todi and a beautiful ragamaligai viruttam. Must buy for TNS/KRM/GH fans!
Sorry for the multiple posts...problems with my mozilla!!
-bhaktha
Sorry for the multiple posts...problems with my mozilla!!
-bhaktha
Last edited by bhaktha on 24 Oct 2007, 11:27, edited 1 time in total.
-
vigneshbal
- Posts: 52
- Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 11:31
Hi all,
My formula for a sucessful tani is simple.. Keep the tani continous.. there should be continuity in every phrase. If you are able to keep it and keep the tempo, tani is 80-90% good. the rest 10% depends on your sollus, analytics etc. It also depends on how you have played for the songs, becoz if you dont play well, you will have mass exits before the tani.
Talking about great tani's, KRM-GHS is the best combination of the century and they are miles above the rest, absolutely no doubt. TNS 1985 concert is great, no doubt. But tani played by Mani & HS in shanmugananda sabha, Mumbai for Lalgudi in 1985 is the best. It is released by Charsur but that fellow edited that tani, fortunately I have heard that.. that should go down as the best tani. Similarly they played one for Lalgudi @KGS in 1983, released by AVM, tani is Kanda thriputa, You would find that one equally good. Infact one can keep talking about this great pair.. There is a practise session of Mani-Harishankar in parts @ Youtube, try it out...
My formula for a sucessful tani is simple.. Keep the tani continous.. there should be continuity in every phrase. If you are able to keep it and keep the tempo, tani is 80-90% good. the rest 10% depends on your sollus, analytics etc. It also depends on how you have played for the songs, becoz if you dont play well, you will have mass exits before the tani.
Talking about great tani's, KRM-GHS is the best combination of the century and they are miles above the rest, absolutely no doubt. TNS 1985 concert is great, no doubt. But tani played by Mani & HS in shanmugananda sabha, Mumbai for Lalgudi in 1985 is the best. It is released by Charsur but that fellow edited that tani, fortunately I have heard that.. that should go down as the best tani. Similarly they played one for Lalgudi @KGS in 1983, released by AVM, tani is Kanda thriputa, You would find that one equally good. Infact one can keep talking about this great pair.. There is a practise session of Mani-Harishankar in parts @ Youtube, try it out...
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Vigneshbal
What a thani you have just mentioned. The 1983 KGS lalgudi cutchery with the keeravani pallavi in kanda triputa is a thani to cherish. GH would have been 25 then. And after the kuraippu and before the Mohra, the way KRM and GH would have played is sure to bring your heart beats a few paces up. But my favourite bit in that concert is a stunning swara pattern played by Lalgudi for Nidhichala Sukama and the way GH would have comprehended it like a piece of camphor and would have played it along with LGJ.
But the most memorable thani with KRM and GH would be a sruthi laya concert at Sastri hall during 1997 I guess if my memory serves me right. The misra chapu played in that concert by both KRM and GH would go down as one of the best ever. Have anyone been there that day? It was a memorable experience.
What a thani you have just mentioned. The 1983 KGS lalgudi cutchery with the keeravani pallavi in kanda triputa is a thani to cherish. GH would have been 25 then. And after the kuraippu and before the Mohra, the way KRM and GH would have played is sure to bring your heart beats a few paces up. But my favourite bit in that concert is a stunning swara pattern played by Lalgudi for Nidhichala Sukama and the way GH would have comprehended it like a piece of camphor and would have played it along with LGJ.
But the most memorable thani with KRM and GH would be a sruthi laya concert at Sastri hall during 1997 I guess if my memory serves me right. The misra chapu played in that concert by both KRM and GH would go down as one of the best ever. Have anyone been there that day? It was a memorable experience.
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
MHO as follows
1. What in your opinion is a good tani?
A good thani must captivate the listener purely with the build up. Complicated Math need not be a part of a thani to make it great at all. There have been innumerable Thani's by the 'Meru' Palghat Mani Iyer where there will be only one korvai which will be the final one. Yet the build up from slow tempo to faster ones and the sheer sound that He brings out of the instrument will keep us mesmerised. Especially the balance between the right and left of his Mridangam. I am already getting goosebumps thinking of PMI's thani.
2. Do you like more than one percussion on stage? If so/not why?
I like more than one percussion on stage. As a rasika, it adds more colour to the sound of the concert and of course the mini duel between mridangam and upapakavadyam will be lively.
3. Any particular artiste's live performance captivated you - why?
Unfortunately 'Meru' Mani Iyer passed away when I was a month old. So I haven't heard live performances by him. But most thanis of Murthy mama, raghu mama, KRM, UKS with Harishankar have thrilled me immensely. Eecha Mama (Mannargudi Easwaran) with Harishankar would always be a mathematicians delight. Especially if the main artiste has sung a particular pattern of Kanakku, Eacha mama, being the whizkid he is, will follow that pattern for the entire thani and Harishankar will catch it up and improvise it so spontaneously. So, for me, the common requirement is Harishankar. As far as he is on the stage, most mridangists play at their best. After all great performance is always contagious.
4. How would you distinguish between a tani and an accompanyment.
Accompaniment is necessity and tani is a luxury I would say. A good thani definitely is a luxury however a good accompaniment is a must for any kutcheri.
1. What in your opinion is a good tani?
A good thani must captivate the listener purely with the build up. Complicated Math need not be a part of a thani to make it great at all. There have been innumerable Thani's by the 'Meru' Palghat Mani Iyer where there will be only one korvai which will be the final one. Yet the build up from slow tempo to faster ones and the sheer sound that He brings out of the instrument will keep us mesmerised. Especially the balance between the right and left of his Mridangam. I am already getting goosebumps thinking of PMI's thani.
2. Do you like more than one percussion on stage? If so/not why?
I like more than one percussion on stage. As a rasika, it adds more colour to the sound of the concert and of course the mini duel between mridangam and upapakavadyam will be lively.
3. Any particular artiste's live performance captivated you - why?
Unfortunately 'Meru' Mani Iyer passed away when I was a month old. So I haven't heard live performances by him. But most thanis of Murthy mama, raghu mama, KRM, UKS with Harishankar have thrilled me immensely. Eecha Mama (Mannargudi Easwaran) with Harishankar would always be a mathematicians delight. Especially if the main artiste has sung a particular pattern of Kanakku, Eacha mama, being the whizkid he is, will follow that pattern for the entire thani and Harishankar will catch it up and improvise it so spontaneously. So, for me, the common requirement is Harishankar. As far as he is on the stage, most mridangists play at their best. After all great performance is always contagious.
4. How would you distinguish between a tani and an accompanyment.
Accompaniment is necessity and tani is a luxury I would say. A good thani definitely is a luxury however a good accompaniment is a must for any kutcheri.
-
arasi
- Posts: 16794
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
thathwamasi,
You know your stuff. I know nothing about tALAs and layA. Yet, I think the same way as you do about build up in a tani. I guess you don't have to know much to enjoy this aspect of a tani.
Yes, I like upa pakka vAdyams too. A vocalist, violinist and a mrudangist cannot often build up that excitement in a tani fo me as much as with a khanjira, ghatam or morsing. The only thing I am not keen on is when they go on and on and take the vocalist's time away.
I think the sound of a good khanjira sings for me. A good morsing player can add some pep to a concert.
While a tani is a joy ride when it involves adept players, what matters to me more is a staid mrudangist as an accompanist. AnuSaraNAi and 'singing' with the vocalist are important to me. For the thrill of listening to a tAni, I won't give up the sukham of a mrudangist's accompanying talent. Coming to think of it, accompanying skill comes first to me.
Favorites? Those AnuSaraNists among the young and the not so young. Oh, yes! The most talented mrudangist, if he is loud, he puts me off...
You know your stuff. I know nothing about tALAs and layA. Yet, I think the same way as you do about build up in a tani. I guess you don't have to know much to enjoy this aspect of a tani.
Yes, I like upa pakka vAdyams too. A vocalist, violinist and a mrudangist cannot often build up that excitement in a tani fo me as much as with a khanjira, ghatam or morsing. The only thing I am not keen on is when they go on and on and take the vocalist's time away.
I think the sound of a good khanjira sings for me. A good morsing player can add some pep to a concert.
While a tani is a joy ride when it involves adept players, what matters to me more is a staid mrudangist as an accompanist. AnuSaraNAi and 'singing' with the vocalist are important to me. For the thrill of listening to a tAni, I won't give up the sukham of a mrudangist's accompanying talent. Coming to think of it, accompanying skill comes first to me.
Favorites? Those AnuSaraNists among the young and the not so young. Oh, yes! The most talented mrudangist, if he is loud, he puts me off...
-
vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
An out of the box idea which I had expressed before in this context. How about the main performer joining in during the thani and follow the pattern of the Kanakku produced by the percussionist and improvise on it spontaneously, either with words, niraval type akaram or solfa symbols or a combination of these. This will make all those melody only folks to scurry back to their seats or not even leave the seats during the thani. This may also break the perceived monotony of the mridangam only Thanis. This will also neatly illustrate explicitly the not so well known symbiotic relationship that exists between the structure of the thani and the niraval and kalpanaswaram sections.Especially if the main artiste has sung a particular pattern of Kanakku, Eacha mama, being the whizkid he is, will follow that pattern for the entire thani and Harishankar will catch it up and improvise it so spontaneously
This will have to be done keeping the fact that percussionists are the Directors and Main performers during Thani. One requirement will be to not over do it or dominate the persussion but be subservient to the percussion in keeping with this requirement.
-
rajumds
- Posts: 715
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 11:16
I have heard a few Somu concerts wherein he joins the tani as you mentioned. In fact tani's during Somu's concerts are visual delight as he will turn towards the artist and enjoy & encourage. How about the main performer joining in during the thani and follow the pattern of the Kanakku produced by the percussionist and improvise on it spontaneously, either with words, niraval type akaram or solfa symbols or a combination of these
-
sbala
- Posts: 629
- Joined: 30 Jul 2006, 08:56
VK,
I observed something close to what you are saying in Manda Sudharani's concert day before. When Balaji Sir was playing the thani, she was actually uttering the sollus. She did it in a very unobtrusive fashion but it was thoroughly enjoyable. She is such a fine artiste. I just hope that she is more active next season.
I observed something close to what you are saying in Manda Sudharani's concert day before. When Balaji Sir was playing the thani, she was actually uttering the sollus. She did it in a very unobtrusive fashion but it was thoroughly enjoyable. She is such a fine artiste. I just hope that she is more active next season.
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Arasi - I agree with the anusaranai bit with you. However, at one certain level when the Mridangist is too good and vocalist is also excellant with his Layam, for the sake of beauty Anusaranai can take a back seat.
For example : - Time and again, Sri Palghat Raghu has played Misra nadai or complicated edhir nadais along side KVN. It just adds up so much to the beauty of the song. It might not be the most "anusaranaiest" thing to play, but it can be immensely beautiful.
So I feel there are two categories of Mridangists : ones who play for the songs (paatukku vasikkarava) and the ones who plays the song itself (paataiye vaasikarava) and people like Mani Iyer, Raghu mama and T K Murthy Sir come in the second category.
T
For example : - Time and again, Sri Palghat Raghu has played Misra nadai or complicated edhir nadais along side KVN. It just adds up so much to the beauty of the song. It might not be the most "anusaranaiest" thing to play, but it can be immensely beautiful.
So I feel there are two categories of Mridangists : ones who play for the songs (paatukku vasikkarava) and the ones who plays the song itself (paataiye vaasikarava) and people like Mani Iyer, Raghu mama and T K Murthy Sir come in the second category.
T
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
-
sindhu
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 30 Oct 2006, 15:07
Quote 'Are you referring to the small kanakkus that he uses as arudhis in between pallavi and anupallavi ?'
- This, I think, is the common feature from all Mrudangists.
I have heard him play kannakkus even during sangitis of any segment. Special mention I can make is for the Panchratna kriits. You may also try to notice and experience the same. Very distinctly heard beats . It is his style.
As a human, he is very much jovial and cracks lot of jokes and he is popular on this count. His sorroundings used to be 'kalakala' ( laughing)..
- This, I think, is the common feature from all Mrudangists.
I have heard him play kannakkus even during sangitis of any segment. Special mention I can make is for the Panchratna kriits. You may also try to notice and experience the same. Very distinctly heard beats . It is his style.
As a human, he is very much jovial and cracks lot of jokes and he is popular on this count. His sorroundings used to be 'kalakala' ( laughing)..
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Sindhu - Yeah! It is a common feature for most mridangists. But some things that murthy mama plays are specific to him. So I thought you are referring to them. Pancharatna kritis are something to which a lot of mridangists play kanakkus in their style. I still don't understand which are the specifics that you are referring to. Is there a recording that you can post?
Because, in my observation, TKM sir is one and probably the only mridangist who plays only mridanga sollus. So the thing that always adorns his playing is the sollus that he play for kritis. Specifically, the mel kalam that he plays for a misra chapu or khanda chapu etc are his trademarks. However, this kanakku aspect is something I am keen to know.
Thanks
T
Because, in my observation, TKM sir is one and probably the only mridangist who plays only mridanga sollus. So the thing that always adorns his playing is the sollus that he play for kritis. Specifically, the mel kalam that he plays for a misra chapu or khanda chapu etc are his trademarks. However, this kanakku aspect is something I am keen to know.
Thanks
T
-
mridhangam
- Posts: 976
- Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Hello J Balaji
Hope you remember me. I am Ganesh - Flautist. Good to interact with you after almost 7 years.
Let me explain what I meant clearly. But before that let me put my disclaimer to say that I never meant that the other mridangists are not playing mridanga sollu. I am just saying that the other mridangists also play others like the Karaikudi Mani sir's famous thavil sollus or the 'Meru' Mani Iyer Chendai Sollus.
I am not trying to say whether playing other sollu's are good or bad, or correct or incorrect. Its just my observation that TKM plays the 'politically correct' mridanga stuff alone. Since I ain't a mridangist, I can't write the sollu's here, but probably we can talk and I shall tell you what I mean.
T
Hope you remember me. I am Ganesh - Flautist. Good to interact with you after almost 7 years.
Let me explain what I meant clearly. But before that let me put my disclaimer to say that I never meant that the other mridangists are not playing mridanga sollu. I am just saying that the other mridangists also play others like the Karaikudi Mani sir's famous thavil sollus or the 'Meru' Mani Iyer Chendai Sollus.
I am not trying to say whether playing other sollu's are good or bad, or correct or incorrect. Its just my observation that TKM plays the 'politically correct' mridanga stuff alone. Since I ain't a mridangist, I can't write the sollu's here, but probably we can talk and I shall tell you what I mean.
T
-
mridhangam
- Posts: 976
- Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
Tks for identifying yourself Tatwamasi. Before making any comments pls be sure that there are lots of mridangists around in this forum who might be offended. And even this comment of Karaikudi Mani Sir's playing of Tavil Sollus also will be taken as an offensive remark by his disciples as he has himself said on many occasions that he doesnt play Tavil Sollus. Kindly refrain from posting on aspects where you are not sure and restrict yourself to posting on items that you are sure of and also that you can substantiate and not for the sake of posting.
JB
JB
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
JB
Referring to my prev post, I have never anywhere mentioned anything incorrect. And I always believe in discussing any subject, with complete rationale not attaching much of emotions to it. But however, now that you have told me this, If at all I have offended any one through my posts, lemme apologise to them and shall refrain from posting topics that could be sensitive.
Thanks
T
Referring to my prev post, I have never anywhere mentioned anything incorrect. And I always believe in discussing any subject, with complete rationale not attaching much of emotions to it. But however, now that you have told me this, If at all I have offended any one through my posts, lemme apologise to them and shall refrain from posting topics that could be sensitive.
Thanks
T
-
sankirnam
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 14:18
If you want to hear a thani that incoporates tavil sollus in mrudangam.... here is one by the late Shri. Thanjavur Upendran. His formulation of sankirnam and khandatisram are characteristic of tavil. Upendransir was one of the few mrudangists who actually did incorporate tavil sollus and kannaku into his playing, becuase of his connections with tavil - his father in law was the tavil vidwan Valangaiman Shanmughasundaram.
In this thani, he starts off with tisram, then switches to sankirnam. Then he uses 9's to switch to kandam! Then he develops khandatisram. Finally he plays the mohara and korvai in tisram.
http://rapidshare.com/files/89898722/06 ... i.mp3.html
In this thani, he starts off with tisram, then switches to sankirnam. Then he uses 9's to switch to kandam! Then he develops khandatisram. Finally he plays the mohara and korvai in tisram.
http://rapidshare.com/files/89898722/06 ... i.mp3.html
Last edited by sankirnam on 04 Jun 2008, 07:35, edited 1 time in total.
-
thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Sankirnam!! Thanks for the recording. Haven't heard it yet as rapidshare is not permitted at work. However, I shall do it as soon as possible. Since I don't have internet at home uploading recordings is kind off impossible for me. There is a concert which used to be on Sangeetha priya which has Lalgudi solo accompanied by Palghat Mani Iyer. The concert begun with Kambodhi Varnam. In this concert, Lalgudi would have played muddumomu. In that we must listen to how Mani Iyer has played for the charanam. I would quote that as an example for Chendai sollu. Anyone got that??? Please upload it...
Thanks
T
Thanks
T