Identify this raga, please?

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Mar 2006, 07:47

This is a soulful song by Bombay Jayashree from the film, "Vietnam Veedu".
Please identify this raga and let me know about the raga lakshana.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15857499/Vie ... m.mp3.html
I suppose the captivating music is by Isai Gnyani Iayaraja.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 19 Mar 2006, 07:58

It sounds like Hamir Kalyani. But since the Aarohanam/Avarohanam sung at the beginning of the song do not contain all the swaras of Hamir Kalyani, I have a doubt.The Aa/Ava. for Hamir Kalyani are:
SPM2PD2N3S/ SN3D2PM2M1G3PM1R2S
Request DRS to clarify.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2006, 08:24

The aro/avaro look somewhat madeup and perhaps there is a raga name for it. But my best guess is it is Yamankalyani based. There is an old Hindi song
Ehasaan tera hoga mujhapar by Lata - Junglee(movie)
(belonging to HM Kalyan That)
which sounds quite similar.

Nice song indeed!

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Mar 2006, 01:21

I think that ehsaan tera hoga mujpar is Hindustani Yaman, which is the equivalent of our Kalyani.There are a number of beautiful hindi film songs in Yaman like:
aasoon bari hai yeh jeevan ki rahe sung by Mukesh in the film Parvarish,
Man re tu kahen naa dheer dhare, sung by Rafi in the film Chithraleka.
Anyway am still confused about the raga of the song," Kai veenaiyai endum kalaivaniye".Would appreciate a clarification .

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Mar 2006, 02:03

BTW, the film is Vietnam Colony... ( Vietnam Veedu is an old classic ).

It sounds like based on Hamir Kalyani to me as well...

but then

Sudha's Thiruppavai Thoomani Madathu rendition is here:

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/v4K ... As1NMvHdW/

Listen back to back and see if there is any merit to that association. Probably not much. 'Kai veenaiyai endum' does not have any of the key proyogams to bring out the identity of HK. Also, it does not have too many variations in melody ( except in the instrumental interlude ).

Having said that, it sounds very nice and there is a recognizable identity to the melody nonetheless. So the question is still open....

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 20 Mar 2006, 02:49

Sivaraman
I find it a wee bit related to Hamir kalyani. However, it doesnt have any sancharas of Hamir Kalyani nor its Aro and Avo. Nevertheless sounds like HK. May be DRS can clarify.....

What language is it in Tamil/Malyalam?

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Mar 2006, 02:50

Thanks VK for your perceptive take on the raga.Certainly SR's renditions has variations in her prayogams and do not jell with BJ's nuances in the Kai veenaiyai song.Having said that, both are very appealing to the soul.
Still my doubts as to the raga remain.Hope I get some definite confirmation on this.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Mar 2006, 03:08

Here is another version of HamirKalyani sung by Vani Jayaram as an inspirational bhajan in the 1971 Hindi Film, "Guddi"and music composed by the Late Vasant Desai.
http://rapidshare.de/files/15925047/Van ... a.mp3.html

How does it compare with BJ and SR's renditions?

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 20 Mar 2006, 03:11

kiransurya,
the language is Tamil.
I agree that though it sounds like HamirKalyani, it is different in the swaras and prayogams.
The doubt still remains as to the identity of the raga.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Mar 2006, 10:43

Here is another version of HamirKalyani sung by Vani Jayaram as an inspirational bhajan in the 1971 Hindi Film, "Guddi"and music composed by the Late Vasant Desai.
http://rapidshare.de/files/15925047/Van ... a.mp3.html

How does it compare with BJ and SR's renditions?

Thanks for uploading this relevant piece. This one is very nice to hear as well ( the other 'Guddi' song of Vani Jayaram being the all time classic Bholere pappi hara...oh..what a great song and VJ's performance ). Interestingly, the song has the same format as 'Kai veenaiyai' in the sense Vani Jayaram and the other chorus singers take turns singing. So you picked a very relevant and comparable piece for this discussion. I hear Hamir Kalyani for the most part here ( except for a few spots where I thought it was getting away from HK ) and I will say it is very close to SR's rendition...

After all this, I am beginning to think 'Kai veenaiyai' has to be categorized with a different raga label. ( reason being, I will be surprised and be a bit distraught if IR meant it to be HK and BJ went along with it since she for sure can sing proper HK with the necessary umphhh.... I mean gamakams and chayal etc.

Of course IR calls the final shot since he is the music director but still....)

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 21 Mar 2006, 02:41

VK,
Yes, I too admire that all time classic,"Bol re papihara",where VJ's voice sounds so youthful and refreshing, highlighting the mood of rag meg malhar.
Coming back to "Kai veenaiyai", IR has, I think, experimented with HK, by changing it's original aaro/avaro, and introduced subtle nuances to suit BJ's voice quality to bring out that mellow and melodious bass in her voice.Yes, I think, we may have to give a new label to the name of the raga, and, probably only the Isai Gnyani himself can tell us the name of the raga.

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 21 Mar 2006, 03:23

My 2 cents....

The start "s g r m g p m d p" starts similar to NaLinakAnti and blends somewhat into HamIr kalyANi. The next set of swaras seem rather random to me The line "aruL vANiyE...tirumalar...vA kaNmaNi" does sound very EhsAn terA hoga mujhpar-ish (at about 0:55)! Again the next part "vaNaGguvOm" goes awry....I think ILaiyarAja has just provided a good blend of kalyaNi, its janyas and allied ragas!

Sivaramanji,
Isn't BOlE rE papIharA in "MiyAM kI malhAr"...?

-vrbadri.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 21 Mar 2006, 03:50

vrbadri,
I think your 2 cents are valuable.It does seem that shades of Nalinakanti are present, with a blend of HK.
I cannot make out whether bol re is meg or miyan ki malhar, since I do not know the HM swaras for both.If you can, please elaborate.

ramamrutham · Post by **ramamrutham** » 21 Mar 2006, 04:55

Hum_ko_man_ki_shakti_dena , isn't it Hindustani Kedar?

BGAK's kedar

http://rapidshare.de/files/16015677/bad ... r.mp3.html

I could be wrong.

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 21 Mar 2006, 04:58

Sivaramanji,
Yes it is in KEdAr, considered the Hindustani equivalent of our HamIr kalyANi. Also, I just saw that BOlE rE papIharA IS in MiyAM kI malhAr. It looks like the song is a kOsher version of the rAga.
-vrbadri.

ramamrutham · Post by **ramamrutham** » 21 Mar 2006, 05:22

vrbadri sir, You are right.BOlE rE papIharA is in Miyan Ki Malhar

sivaraman sir,
regarding the vietnam colony clip, I believe it is in Asa Bilawal.

Sivaraman · Post by **Sivaraman** » 21 Mar 2006, 05:56

vrbhadri/ ramamrutham,
Both of you may be right.I do not profess to know HM.
The bottom line is that it is a very melodious composition of IR, sung soulfully by BJ.