gangai karai tOTTam

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Apr 2008, 22:22

The karnatik.com site (royal carpet film songs section) identifies this song to be in AbhErI. I am not too sure. Can our experts listen and opine, please?

http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/movie/

Thanks!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Apr 2008, 23:39

As much as I can hear G3 I would not bet on Abheri! Arun should hear it!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Apr 2008, 00:16

from what I could tell - the scale does seem to have the general feel of Karnataka Devagandhari (i.e. what we also call Abheri nowadays). But I will take a closer listen again later.

Arun

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Apr 2008, 01:06

Thanks...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Apr 2008, 01:59

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC0xh7engwk

It is quite a thing that it is such a sweet sounding melody and at the same time it does not trigger Abheri or KDG in me. As Arun stated 'the scale has the feel of KDG' is probably the right way to characterize it. It is a masterful skill in itself to spin melodies using the scale but not bring in the same CM raga feel to it, knowing what to take out and what to add in. K.V. Mahadevan was a master at that.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Apr 2008, 02:14

Any chance it is miSra pIlU? Even if it is remotely connected to mp, I will tell you what prompted the query in the first place!!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 02:25

Thanks VK
That is a cleaner version than the one from MIO.
I agree it has the notes of KDG, but somehow it does not sound like it as VK also states. Though it sounds very good what is missing here? By the by I used to know KVM before he became famous

He was always a non-standard CM artiste

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Apr 2008, 02:51

I agree it does not feel like KDG. But I think we match to KDG only because it is what we are familiar with

. Its like until you know the features of a certain race of people intimately - all of them look alike (or many of them remind you of the one or two persons you know

).

On closer look, I think it does not follow KDG scale although there are similarities. From what I could play with an online piano it starts something like rpmp rmg grgs sn`p` p`n` sgrn`s.... (although the first ri would be a ga).

I think there seems ascent after ri - immediately disqualifies it as KDG. I dont know about pIlu and miSra pIlu (i.e. not familiar with either raga)

Arun

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:13

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/08/03/st ... 03070b.htm

...After she played the everlasting ``Gangai Karai Thottam'' from the film ``Vaanambadi`` in the rare Palasi Kafi raga

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:38

Ah, the answer!
Is it possible that the rAgA name is hinting at a related rAgA (bhImplAs-palasi)?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:44

A palas kafi example (Pandit Ravi Shankar):
http://www.emusic.com/album/Ali-Akbar-K ... 38669.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 03:49

Thanks Ragam-talam

Lakshman!

Help with Palasi Kafi please...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Apr 2008, 06:09

Is this palAsi kAfi? I would not believe everything that's written, just because it was quoted in a 'newspaper'....

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Apr 2008, 09:07

From the same link

After she played the everlasting ``Gangai Karai Thottam'' from the film ``Vaanambadi`` in the rare Palasi Kafi raga, Sundar took off from there to list some of the other KVM numbers in the same raga. ``Kakkai Siraginilae...'' to name one.

Kakkai Siraginilae... is another clue for possible comparison and verification.

Here is A. Kanyakumari's version of Kakkai Sirganinilae. http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/PJb ... As1NMvHdW/

The above is the version I am familiar with.

There is another one by Rajesh Vaidya on MOI, labeled Kakkai Siraginille : http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/0JQ ... As1NMvHdW/

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Apr 2008, 09:44

Ravi:

We circle around to your point ( and hoping not to create any confusion )

http://www.karnatik.com/ragasm.shtml states:

mishra pilU

Film songs: kAkkai siraginile nandalAlA (Ezhavathu manithan)

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/DUQ ... As1NMvHdW/

This Ezhavathu Manithan Song is what Rajesh Vaidya is playing on the Veena in the link I provided above.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 12 Apr 2008, 10:10

Is it not a paradox that sometimes the music director does not himself know what raaga it is, but creates excellent songs. I can onlly pinpoint my alltime favorite md OPnayyar. what is the raaga of of 'chainko humko kabhi in the film Pran jaaye par vachan na jaaye" the soulful melody after which Asha Bhonsle, his beneficiary parted ways. sorry for the transgression from the original subject gobilalitha

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Apr 2008, 10:53

Here is A. Kanyakumari's version of Kakkai Sirganinilae.

This sounds more like Brindavana saranga. Is not similar to gangai karai thottam.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2008, 19:48

As far as I know it was Brindavana Saranga!
At least we all seem to agree that the notes are from Mela 22 which agree with the Kafi That. It is not Bimplasi, nor is it Pilu (maybe misra whatever that be that mix

Let us mull over it!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Apr 2008, 23:18

CML, I am confused by your mentioning G3 earlier. To add to my confusion http://www.karnatik.com/ragask.shtml labels KDG as a janya of Harikambhoji with G3. I assume in our discussions here, we are talking about G2, right? ( including Arun's swara mappings for this song )

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:16

VK
I am sorry! I was in error. It was G2 only and all the notes (reasonably (Arun agreeing:) were from mela 22....
But we are nowhere close to geting a handle on this raga Palasi Kafi

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:48

Understood CML. So the karnatik.com description of KDG ( attributing it to Mela 28 ) is not in vogue in any school, right?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Apr 2008, 07:26

I think Gobilalitha said it. In films, while they know their rAgAs, they do not have to stick to them faithfully as a CM musician does. They can mix, bend here and there for effect. That is what makes all of you experts go off the track, I think.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Apr 2008, 07:55

A longer palas kafi piece by ravishankar: http://chalilittlebird.imeem.com/music/ ... alas_kafi/

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 13 Apr 2008, 10:07

Another observation is that the harmonium being such an easy instrument to play than any other instrument like violin , flute, other wind instruments, the same in a music director's hand brings out thousands of tunes, withoutknowing the raagas. haven't we seen beggars atleast in Indiaplay marvellosly on the harmonium, now a joke not connected with the main issue. once myself and mrs gbl wearing an orange saree and matching blousewere waiting in a queue to visit STATUE OF LIBERTY. , suddenly , we heard one black american singing " fairlady orange". with the usual guitar in his hand.my nephew who accompanied us told us that he would come to us soon requesting some dollars for havingpraised her FROM gangaikarai to NEW YORK, what a fantastic turn this thread has taken . yes that is the spirit of Rasikas.org, all of you agreed? gobilalitha

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Apr 2008, 10:37

From Gangai Karai Thottam to Hudson Karai Thottom ( there is actually a Hudson River Park )

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Apr 2008, 20:16

And it is not far from Battery Park where this happened, the Statue of Liberty shedding light on the proceedings!