Sanjay Subrahmanyam, Sep 13, IACRF/CMANA, NJ

fuddyduddy · Post by **fuddyduddy** » 14 Sep 2008, 09:19

One more scintillating concert! As tiring as it is to drive around to concerts with kids, it was most enjoyable listening to Sanjay! Am sure I will have typos since I couldnt hear some words exactly! Please correct.

1. Sami ninne - Kedaram varnam
2. Marubakudhaya mohanaanga naapai - Mohanam
3. Rama neeve gaani nannu - Narayani
4. Kaana kannayirum vendum - Neelambari (I'm hearing Sanjays neelambari for the first time. Awesome and touching!)
5. Maravakave O manasa - Saama
6. Pranataarthi hara prabho - Raagamalika - Sri, Kanakaangi,Ratnangi, Gaanamoorthi, Vanaspathi, Manavathi, Ganaroopini etc etc.
7. Maathim dehi - Kalyani (This was the main. It was so good and I dont know who the composer is!)
8. Oho Kaalame - Sahana

9. Ninne nammithe neeradhe - Mukhari
10. RTP - BrindavanaSaranga, with raagamalika thanam in Naataikurinji, Saveri, Ranjani, Abheri, ShubaPantuvarali, Bahudari, back to BrindavanaSaranga. This was ultimate and he sang it with so much ease.
Pallavi - Naadanai dinam ninai maname BrindavanaSaranga ranga
11. Yedaiyaa gadhi - Chalanaatai
12. Oorilen Kaani illai followed by Brindavanam idhuvo - Shuddhadanyasi
13. Kaanavendum laksham kangal - Suruti
14. Ramani bhajithaal noivinal theerum - Maand
15. Mangalam

Thats the end of his concerts in the tri-state area, unfortunately.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 14 Sep 2008, 09:25

Another wow concert!!! Just yesterday night, i was thinking why no one is singing melaraga malika of maha vaidhyanatha sivan... here comes sanjay... with chakram #1... Fuddyduddy - raga should be tanarupi instead of Ganaroopini.. 6th raga of melakartha.

Brindavanasaranga RTP - what taalam it was?

can you also add where he did neraval, where alapana etc?

brindavanam iduvo again?

mohanam piece seem to be new..

You got oho kalame now!!! He is singing sahana in all concerts??

No muthyuswami dikshitar or shyama sastri again?

How will it be to listen to these concerts live, or to listen to recordings!!

-hari

prasanna83 · Post by **prasanna83** » 14 Sep 2008, 10:30

Mathim dehi is by Vaanamamalai jeer swamy

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 14 Sep 2008, 20:36

'Janakiramana' in kaapi is also his, isn't it?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Sep 2008, 20:49

Yes, Punarvasu. However, I do not know which Jeeyar wrote them. Any information on that?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Sep 2008, 20:58

Fuddyduddy,
Happy to know you are enjoying a series of Sanjay's concerts and also sharing your experience with others.

13: kANa vENum laTcham kaNgaL

Hari,
That mOhanam piece is new to me too.
As for MD and SS, they once in a while can make room for tamizh songs. But then, one could ask--'why no bArati?

As is his wont, Sanjay's concerts are a sumptuous fare. About fifteen items, still no hurrying through them...

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 14 Sep 2008, 21:23

kANa vENum laTcham kaNgal is a composition of a Arunchala Kavi.

One should listen to a moving rendition the Octogenerian Nadaswaram artiste - SRD - Sempanarkoil Vaidhyanathan - Guru of Sanjay Subramanyan. It is in the DVD.

The soft voice of SRD and rhe sangathis of Surati ....

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 15 Sep 2008, 00:38

I just wanted to add a few details to the list posted by Fuddyduddy. Also I have added a few comments below.
---

Sanjay Subrahmanyan (Vocal)
Nagai Muralidharan (Violin)
Neyveli Venkatesh (Mridangam)

NJ concert â€“ Sept 13, 2008 â€“ Arranged by IACRF/CMANA
1. Sami ni rammanave (tana varnam)_Kedaram_Rupaka. Tiruvettyur Tyagayya
2. Maruvakudhaya mohanaanga naapai_Mohana_Adi. Garbapurivasa [S]
3. Rama nee vegani nannu_Narayani_Adi. Thyagaraja
4. Kaana kan ayiram vendum_Nilambari_Adi. Anai-Ayya
5. Maravakave O manasa_Sama_Rupaka. Patnam Subramania Iyer [R]. Neraval at â€˜Paramhamsaâ€™.
6. Pranataarthi hara prabho â€“ Raagamalika_Sri, Kanakaangi,Ratnangi, Gaanamoorthi, Vanaspathi, Manavathi, Tanarupi, etc_Adi. (First & second Chakras of Maha Vaidyanatha Iyerâ€™s magnum opus)
7. Maathim dehi Varamange_Kalyani_Adi (Vaanamalai Jeeyar or Puliyur Doraiswami Iyer) [R, S]. Thani followed.
8. Oho Kaalame_Sahana_Adi. Vedanayakam Pillai [Short R]
9. Ninna nammidhe neeradhashyama_Mukhari_Adi. Purandara Dasa
10. RTP â€“ BrindavanaSaranga_Thisra jaati thriputa Kanda gati taalam - with raagamalika thanam in Naataikurinji, Saveri, Ranjani, Karnataka Devagandhari, ShubaPantuvarali, Bahudari, and back to BrindavanaSaranga.
Pallavi - Naathanai dinam ninai maname BrindavanaSaranga Ranga
11. Edayyaa gathi enakku_Chalanata_Adi. Koteeswara Iyer
12. Oorilen Kaani illai followed by Brindavanam idhuvo â€“ Shuddhadanyasi. Lyrics by Sudhananda Bharathi, possibly tuned by Thurayur Rajagopala Sarma (according to Sanjay)
13. Kaanavendum laksham kangal_Surati_Atachapu. Arunachalakavi
14. Ramanai bhajitthaal noi vinai theerum_Mand_Adi. Papanasam Sivan [Short R]
15. Mangalam

Here are some comments and impressions from just one ordinary rasika. There is no pretense here for this to be considered a scholarly and technical concert review.

If one can look upon the evolving creativity in an artist as a process of rediscovery of his or her inner reservoir of possibilities, then Sanjay has struck a motherload. The music that poured out of him in torrents of ragas and sancharas spoke of this inner connection and his mastery of this great art.

His NJ concert appears to have brought out items to the concert repertoire that are not often heard. This concert is also to be noted for its absence of works by the Trininity, except for that Narayani piece. Further, rasikas might have noticed that the three concerts Sanjay has given in this area (out of a total of 4) where he has sung RTP, the raga has had Hindustani origin â€“ Behag (Sruti, PA), Chandrakauns (Flushing temple, NY) and Brindavana Saranga (IACRF/CMANA, NJ).

Mohanam was rendered with a soft touch befitting this raga. The Anai â€“ Ayya piece (recall the brothersâ€™ mudra â€“ Umadasa) in Nilambari set a tranquil mood in the concert hall for the next Sama raga. This writer felt that the neraval at Paramahamsa brought out the essence and the charm of Sama. The Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer piece (the first two cycles) was a delight for the ear, the heart and the mind. The consummate artist that he is, the quick shifts and the brisk rendering of the chittaiswaram for each raga in the first cycle he sang was an aural delight. The brigas, especially in the fine Kalyani, are to be noted also.

One last comment on the Brindavana Saranga RTP. After talking to many rasikas who are very familiar with Sanjayâ€™s music, one gets the impression that Sanjay prefers the Hindustani Sohini-based version of the raga, as opposed to what commonly goes for Brindavana Saranga. I am not qualified to write which version he sang. Only Sanjay and the erudite in the audience know for sure.

Nagai Muralidharan has accompanied Sanjay many times over the years. Hence his accompaniment had all the sounds of a great collaboration. His playing supported and supplemented the vocalist. In the solo renderings, Nagaiâ€™s bowing was melodious music, of the right duration and his quick responses to the vocalistâ€™s innovations during the kalpanaswara section was music enjoyment of rarity.

Venkateshâ€™s percussion accompaniment was fresh, fast when needed and in great harmony with his colleagues on the stage. His thani was outstanding.

A great musical evening for the rasikas of NJ.

fuddyduddy · Post by **fuddyduddy** » 15 Sep 2008, 01:53

yes, arasi, having a great time with these concerts. now am starting to convince my husband that it might be worth driving 4 hrs to Boston for Sanjays last concert in the US!

Ramprasad, thanks for adding a technical touch to the review. as requested by s_hari, i wanted to add the neraval lines etc but always end up having no time to type it up!

the cd's for the NJ concert were being sold by CMANA for those interested.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 04:07

Ramprasad,
Great review! You know enough music to write such a review. Even I have tried my hand at it, a mere rasikA and no more. Now, here is a 'tongue in the cheek' : I know how to spell the vocalist's name than you do

Sanjay himself sings praises of Nagai--how his playing for Kalyanaraman made him urge Sanjay to sing mELakartA rAgAs.
What you say about Venkatesh's playing the mrudangam is so true--his accompanying is fresh and is in harmony with the singer.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 04:16

Fuddy duddy,
I see a groupie thing developing here!
Any good music is worth chasing after. I wish we were young enough to attend concerts in the US as we used to do, in far away places.

Were you talking about CMANA selling CDs of Sanjay's previous concert there two years ago? Hope they bring out CDs of the artistes this year as well.

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 15 Sep 2008, 05:04

Hi Arasi,

Thanks for the sharp eye. I would never think of mis-spelling Sanjay's name!!

On another matter, my name has 4 a's. I prefer it that way, but everybody drops one of them.

Tongue in cheek (contd)

Ramaprasad

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 07:44

Okay,
Ramaprasad!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 07:46

About kANa vENum laTcham kaNgaL; DId he sing it in a slow tempo? That is how I have heard him sing it before.

fuddyduddy · Post by **fuddyduddy** » 15 Sep 2008, 08:06

Arasi,
CMANA was taking down names for those who wanted the concert in NJ. I also heard that Shrutilaya is also making CD's of the concert in Queens, NY.

Yes, the surutti was in slow tempo and one of the best versions I have heard

The RTP was in Thisra jaati thriputa Kanda gati taalam. (as per his Dec 2007 charsur CD where he had sung the same pallavi but different ragamalika swarams etc...)

hope to see his song lists from other forthcoming concerts.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 08:12

By the way, Guruvayur Dorai who accompanied Sanjay during his last tour of the US composed the line of the pallavi.

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 15 Sep 2008, 08:36

When he sings that RTP, he is singing more of Brindavani (N2 and N3) rather than Brindavana Saranga (just N2).

Ramaprasad -- I wouldn't say he 'prefers' one over the other, just that this way of singing the ragam seems to be a better fit for that particular pallavi.

For example, before singing Soundararajam (Brindavana Saranga, with only N2), he sings only N2 in his raga alapanai as that fits the way the krithi itself was composed.

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 15 Sep 2008, 08:36

Fuddyduddy,

Thanks for finding the tala of the RTP. I made the necessary change in the listing above. I also feel (since I did not make any notes on this particular aspect) that Sanjay sang two cycles in 'Pranatarti hara', since I heard the word 'kokilarpriya' in his singing. What is your recollection?

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 15 Sep 2008, 08:42

He sings the first two chakras (ragas 1-12) in Pranatharthihara... (Kanakangi - Roopavathi)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Sep 2008, 09:25

deepsand,
And you should know! Thanks for the details.

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 15 Sep 2008, 09:35

haha... you're welcome!

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 15 Sep 2008, 16:33

Deepsands02,

Thanks for answering my question. Your insight appreciated here.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 15 Sep 2008, 16:48

Ramaprasad wrote:One last comment on the Brindavana Saranga RTP. After talking to many rasikas who are very familiar with Sanjayâ€™s music, one gets the impression that Sanjay prefers the authentic Hindustani Sohini-based raga that Dikshitar composed in, as opposed to what commonly goes for Brindavana Saranga. I am not qualified to write which version he sang. Only Sanjay and the erudite in the audience know for sure.

Sohini is the equivalent of Hamsanandi, not Brindavana Saranga.

Hindustani Sangeeth has Brindabani, Madhumadh Sarang, etc., which are close to the Carnatic Brindavana Saranga.

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 15 Sep 2008, 21:52

I've heard Hindustani singers say 'Brindavani Saarang' as the equivalent of Brindavana Saranga.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 16 Sep 2008, 00:09

Brindavani Sarang is the same as Brindabani/Brindavani I think. It comes with both nishadas. Madhmadh sarang is the N2 only variety....more details can be found here:

http://www.sawf.org/Newedit/edit10302000/musicarts.asp

sankar.n · Post by **sankar.n** » 17 Sep 2008, 01:29

Brindavanasaranga from Sanjay??? wowwww!!! Is the recording of this concert available anywhere???

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 17 Sep 2008, 01:59

Dear Harimau and others,

Please read the following concert review in The Hindu. It has two reviews - one that of a concert by T N Seshagopalan and the second that of a concert by Sanjay. There is Sohini briefly discussed and it expresses better what I had in mind, but could not clearly convey.

http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/01/02/stor ... 140300.htm

Ramaprasad

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 18 Sep 2008, 12:58

I think it is probably a mistake by the reviewer unless "Sohini" - as opposed to "Sohani/Sohni" - is some other raga that is related to B Saranga...but I really doubt this...

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 18 Sep 2008, 13:19

Yea Brindavani Saarang is more like our Brindavani rather than Brindavana Saranga.

I'm not sure about this whole Sohini thing cause I've never heard Brindavani and Sohini being equivalents, but rather always Hamsanandi and Sohini being the same.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 18:10

Deepsands,
Is it possible for you to check with a higher authority and dispel the doubts?

deepsands02 · Post by **deepsands02** » 18 Sep 2008, 21:37

Yea -- will try to get the correct song list and post it.

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 18 Sep 2008, 21:46

Deepsands02

Please enlighten me. In the context of what we we are discussing, is the song list you refer to that of the Sept. 13 NJ concert or the one reviewed in The Hindu that I gave the link to?

By the way, I have made a few minor corrections in the piece I wrote, thanks to the healthy discussions we are having here

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 18 Sep 2008, 22:09

There is a raga called Sohoni also in HM, I think. It doesnt sound like hamsaanandi or Brindaavani.
Just my contribution to add to the confusion here.

=)

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 19 Sep 2008, 00:41

Fuddyduddy wrote in post #1

Am sure I will have typos since I couldnt hear some words exactly! Please correct.

1: the wording may not be correct. There is a varNa by Tiruvettiyur Tyagayya in this rAgA with the starting words sAmi nI rammanavE.
2: maruvakaday mOhanAnga nApai by Garbhapurivasa
3: Tyagaraja
4: Anai Ayya
5: Patnam Subramania Iyer
7: Jeer Svami
8: Vedanayakam Pillai
11: Kotishvara Iyer
13: Arunachalakavirayar
14: Papanasham Shivan

I could not find any info on the mukhAri song. Maybe the pallavi line words are not correct.

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 19 Sep 2008, 18:26

There are two questions

1. The raga name of the RTP - Raga X
2. Soundararajam Asraye - in Brindavana Saranga - Dikshitar

There is DKP/DKJ renditon of this krithi. Superb, I might add.

TN Seshagopalan has attempted a Hindustani interpretation of Soundararajam ...
Call it Sohini/Mohini or Megh Malhar .....

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 20 Sep 2008, 20:15

Ramaprasad wrote:Dear Harimau and others,

Please read the following concert review in The Hindu. It has two reviews - one that of a concert by T N Seshagopalan and the second that of a concert by Sanjay. There is Sohini briefly discussed and it expresses better what I had in mind, but could not clearly convey.

http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/01/02/stor ... 140300.htm

Ramaprasad

For what it is worth,

Rajan Parrikar writes in http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit02182002/musicarts.asp:

"The sprightly Sohani is an instant pleaser much like that buxom leotard-wrapped babe at your local gym that you lust after while pretending to work out (by way of comparison, think of Marwa as your mother-in-law: solid, ponderous and seriously unfunny). The Carnatic equivalent of Sohani is Hamsananda. "

Wikipedia says "Sohni is a raga in Hindustani classical music in the Marwa thaat. It may be spelt Sohani, or even Sohini."

Ramaprasad · Post by **Ramaprasad** » 21 Sep 2008, 00:36

Whereas all this discussion has been very interesting, those among us who are more qualified musically than the undersigned have still not addressed the central issue, namely, the comments of the reviewer in The Hindu. The link has been given above. Here is the direct quote from the news paper. The reviewer is Mr. V. Subrahmaniam

"Sanjay embarked on the Ragam Tanam Pallavi session. The ragam chosen was Brindavana Saranga. This raga has two versions. In the version of Muthuswami Dikshitar it is known as Brindavani in which he has composed `Sri Soundararajam' and `Rangapura Vihara'. This version of the raga has only very minimal usage of kakali nishada if at all a very suggestive anuswara touch. This raga has become known as Brindavana Saranga now.

"The other version has liberal usage of both the nishadas, which is akin to its North Indian counterpart. It has been known here as Sohini. Sanjay took up this version and splendidly dealt with it including the tanam. The two nishadaas were sung in succession."

In my opinion, the quote from Mr. Parrikar's writings is of questionable value to the current discussion, and does not bring us any closer to our understanding of the Sohini - Brindavana Saranga issue. I am hoping that women and, especially mothers-in-law, who happen to read the Parrikar quote, won't be too much upset. My own mother-in-law, among other things, was a vainiki and a gem of a woman.

Ramaprasad

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Sep 2008, 02:05

Ramaprasad, I think the consensus opinion is that the reviewer's reference to Sohini is incorrect. While recognizing that Shri Subrahmanian is a vidwan and critic of considerable standing, the track record of the Hindu's reviews is hardly so unimpeachable as to disallow any possibility of error!

Sohni in HM corresponds to the CM Hamsanandi and Sohani/Sohini etc. are merely variants in nomenclature, as has been pointed out. The CM Brindavana Saranga has little in common with this raga. Hope this clarifies.

BTW, although Mr. Parrikar's views are often prejudiced and offensive, rarely are they of questionable value in any discussion on Hindustani ragas. In fact, his articles on hindustani ragas are unparalleled in their depth of research and wealth of audio samples. Nothing like it exists anywhere else in the HM/CM universe and that is reason enough for this rasika to overlook his occasional descents into yellow journalism.

The analogy between Sohni and Marwa maybe a tad sexist but quite apt - Mr. Parrikar is guilty of far worse than this somewhat innocuous wisecrack to which, I am sure, most sporting Mothers-in-law will respond with a titter or two...he seems to have spelt Hamsanandi wrong though...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Sep 2008, 02:19

Upon another reading, I get the impression that the reviewer intends to say that the N2+N3 variety of B Saranga is called Sohini in CM...who knows, that might be right ...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Sep 2008, 02:26

Incidentally karnatik.com provides the following identity for Sohini:

53 gamanashramA janya
Aa: S G3 M2 D2 N3 S
Av: S N3 D2 M2 G3 R1 S

This is quite close to the Hindustani Sohni as explained by Parrikar and therefore, to our Hamsanandhi. I could also find any internet reference that links Brindavana Saranga with Sohini so until we find an alternate explanation, we will have to put the whole thing down to reviewer/printer error.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 21 Sep 2008, 10:01

What bout rAga 'sohoni'? Pt.Jasraj has sung a bhajan in that I think. It sound neither like Brindaavani/Brindavana saranga nor hamsanandi.

Vijay is it a typo-'I could also find any internet..........'?
Sohini is like sunadavinodini in the Arohanam and hamsanandi in the avarohanam?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 21 Sep 2008, 11:29

Sohini's closest southern counterpart is hamsAnandi

SunAdavinOdini's ( S G M D N S - S N D M G S) closest northern counterpart is hindOL. ( S G M D N M D S - S D M G M G, M S)

Neither of these have anything to do with Brindavani/Brindavani sarang/ Brindavana Saranga IMO

-Ramakriya

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Sep 2008, 12:00

Punarvasu it was a typo...
Ramakriya, Hindol I think uses pratimadhyamam - the exact opposite of Hindolam! Parrikar mentions a curious phenomenon wherein ragas with the same name in HM/CM have exactly antipodal notes!

"Raga Shree of the Carnatic paddhati is an altogether different bloke although there exists a curious relationship: a simple flip-flop of the swaras of the Carnatic Shree from or to their vikrita forms yields an approximate contour of the Hindustani Shree. Notice that a similar correlation holds true for other name-congruent pairs, eg., the Carnatic Hindolam and Hindustani Hindol or the Carnatic Bhoopal and Hindustani Bhoopali"

More than interesting and good material, I suspect, for a PhD in musicology! The entire article is here:

http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit01222001/musicarts.asp

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 21 Sep 2008, 13:23

Raganidhi by B. Subba Rao does not list any Carnatic raga called Sohini, Sohani, Sohoni or even Sohni.

Subba Rao does mention under the heading "Sohani" that the equivalent Carnatic raga would be Hamsanandi.

FWIW.

kamavardhani · Post by **kamavardhani** » 21 Sep 2008, 14:57

vijay wrote:...Shri Subrahmanian is a vidwan and critic of considerable standing...

The "standing", if ever he had any, has been smashed to smithereens in the last couple of music seasons! The buzz in the grapevine is that The Hindu has politely shown him the door. The Janaranjani-Kedaram kerfuffle involving Sowmya was probably the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back