Sruthi BhEdham in HM

beginner · Post by **beginner** » 24 Sep 2008, 15:10

Like in CM, is Sruthi BhEdam done by HM artists? I am afraid, HM artists are so much attached with Sruthi, they would dare do it. Your takes/ views pl...

vk · Post by vk » 25 Sep 2008, 10:43

Why are we obesessed with our attempts to relate HM music to CM?

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 26 Sep 2008, 07:52

shruti bedham or grahabedham are complex things, which can be understood by rasikas with high knowledge of intricate swara variations .However much it is theoretically explained,, it may not satisfy our question . only a lecture demonstration will help. GOBILALITHA

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Sep 2008, 08:10

The last time you said something like that, Arun went ahead and provided a whole host of demos which were quite illuminating ( and I am still perplexed by that experience as to the fundamental nature of our music

). I can not readily find that thread now. We will link that thread here later on.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 26 Sep 2008, 09:29

VK, it is in the 'Raga and Alapana' thread.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Sep 2008, 09:38

Thanks Punarvasu. Found it based on your tip. Here is the link: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6046

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 26 Sep 2008, 10:14

BTW sruthi bedham is well known among Hindustani musicians and I remember at least one occasion when it was presented in a concert. However it is not as common as in CM (where, IMO, a lot of so-called Sruthi Bedhams have more to do with the theory behind tonal shifts than true sruthi gnanam)...

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 26 Nov 2008, 06:58

I don't see why Hindustani musicians should not attempt grahabhEda

Here is an illustration of graha bheda in Hindustani by Sanjeev Abhyankar.

I have posted it on my blog in the following link.

http://neelanjana.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/graha-bedha/

-Ramakriya

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Nov 2008, 07:10

Here is a question. If a HM musician was singing Malkauns (our Hindolam) and he starts singing in a madhyama shruti then will he be singing suddha dhanyasi ? The reason I ask is since there are not much gamaka pryogams in HM compared to CM...

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 27 Nov 2008, 01:01

Not sure about that - but I suspect whenever the graha is not strong enough, it can float into another rAga whether it is Hindustani or not.

Here is an illustration from film music - that has the same pair cmlover mentioned in his post:

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=30sdZLbnUHc

Ignore the final S R M P D S

where all swaras are at the same frequency!

-Ramakriya

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Nov 2008, 01:20

It is not that clear due to lot of instrumental noise!
Perhaps Arun could give us a good demo if he gets to read this!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 27 Nov 2008, 01:41

cmlover wrote:Here is a question. If a HM musician was singing Malkauns (our Hindolam) and he starts singing in a madhyama shruti then will he be singing suddha dhanyasi ? The reason I ask is since there are not much gamaka pryogams in HM compared to CM...

(i have mentioned this before) This certainly happened to me at a BMK concert with Ajoy Chakraborty - it was sort of a jugalbandi. They switched to madhyama sruthi for hindolam (but mainly to eliminate the pa) - but still sang in normal sruthi. But apparently I latched on the madhyama from the sruthi/tampura as sadja - and for the entire multi-minute alapana we thought they were singing suddhadhanyasi. It all ended when BMK started "sAmajavaragamana"

cmlover - In that instrumental thing - basically they are singing the exact same tune - but transposing the solfa syllables. So what is sung as g m d n (of hindolam), is then repeated but as n s g m (of s.dhanyasi). But since there is no other enforcing of shift of tonic going on, we as listeners dont perceive anything.

Aun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Nov 2008, 02:20

Thanks Arun
Yes! you have mentioned the whole episode before. I had forgotten. Pardon me

This latching on to the shruti (tambura) can indeed play tricks on us!
But I think these illusions need gamaka-free svara prastaaram which is not always pleasant for many of CM ragas...