Purvi Kalyani as the main ragam in a concert

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 02 Apr 2009, 11:59

I attended 3 concerts last month.Malladi Bros.@Ananta Padhmanabhasami temple,Adyar,Vasundara Rajagopal @ Nadhasudha,Velachery and Savita Narasimhan @ NGS.In all these concerts the main raga of that day was Purvi Kalyani.I was bit uncomfortable in accepting this as main raga.This practice has started recently,I believe.Earlier this ragam was a sub-main ragam mostly and there are occasional instances where this was taken mainly.

I request our forum senior members like Vaggeyakara,Hariharan and others to enlighten on this thread.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 02 Apr 2009, 12:17

Ganeshkant, why were you uncomfortable about pUrvikalyANi as main?

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 02 Apr 2009, 13:14

Why should pUrvikalyANi not be taken up as main? There is a very good choice of big krithis: parama pAvana rAmA, maraCitivEmO, mInAkshi mE mudam, EkAmranAtham etc, sATilEni guruguha etc.

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 02 Apr 2009, 13:35

Bilahari,

Because I think the mind got used to seeing this raga as a sub main and not a main.Moreover the frequency of this raga being sung is much higher when compared to other ragas.When there are 72 melaragas and thousands of janya ragas why are we sticking on to only a few ragas ?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 02 Apr 2009, 17:54

I agree - the Golden era musicians (ARI, GNB, MMI, SSI) more often used to treat purvikalyani as a sub-main raga. While there is nothing wrong with it being treated as a main raga or even used for RTP, I'd prefer a traditional ghana raga (thodi, bhairavi, kalyani, etc) as the main.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 02 Apr 2009, 19:20

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 Apr 2009, 19:34

srinivasrgvn wrote:when people can sing janya ragas like Purvikalyani, why don't they sing melakartha ragas like Gamanashrama?

There are many reasons, including historical and psycho-acoustic, why a janya rAga may be more popular than the parent. There have been past discussions on purvikalyani/gamakakriya in this forum. I did think about this particular question just now and I think pUrvikalyani has more character than gamanashrama due to a) the omission of N in the arohana which imparts the characteristic DS'R'S' prayogas b) the vakra in the arohana.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 02 Apr 2009, 19:36

srinivasrgvn wrote:when people can sing janya ragas like Purvikalyani, why don't they sing melakartha ragas like Gamanashrama?

who said so? many are singing gamanasramam ( thinking that it is poorvikalyani!)!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 02 Apr 2009, 21:13

In general poorvikalyAni especially in alApanai is recurring and bit stale in manOdharma ,as many singers go in "karuna rasa circling tour"

most of the times there is little too much repetition. I also associate poorvikalyAni as one rAga where vidwans/vidushis can easily fake and kind of demonstrate pseudo depth :rolleyes: in vidwath .

Of course there are few exceptions of musicians who sing poorvikalyAni exceptionally well, they are very rare.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 02 Apr 2009, 21:20

I remember MMI and MDR concerts where mInAkshi mEmudam has been the main (i.e. the most elaborate item or/and with thani). So I guess there HAS been a slight precedent for this trend in the past. I will link the MDR concert if/when Sangeethapriya becomes stable and functional again (I have almost completely lost access to the site over the last month).

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2009, 21:23

chalanata wrote:
srinivasrgvn wrote:when people can sing janya ragas like Purvikalyani, why don't they sing melakartha ragas like Gamanashrama?
who said so? many are singing gamanasramam ( thinking that it is poorvikalyani!)!

But I haven't heard any such, though!

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 20 May 2009, 13:23

rajeshnat wrote:In general poorvikalyAni especially in alApanai is recurring and bit stale in manOdharma ,as many singers go in "karuna rasa circling tour" most of the times there is little too much repetition. I also associate poorvikalyAni as one rAga where vidwans/vidushis can easily fake and kind of demonstrate pseudo depth :rolleyes: in vidwath .

Of course there are few exceptions of musicians who sing poorvikalyAni exceptionally well, they are very rare.

Yes, they are rare. The Bombay Sisters excel in singing pUrvikalyAni. Their Alapanas are awesome!

sarang · Post by **sarang** » 21 May 2009, 19:26

P Kalyani as a main raga
MLV 's rendition is mind blowing too. (Try listening to her Ekambranatham (MD composition)). A lot of variety makes us wonder if Purvi Kalyani can be sung this way
Also Semmangudi mama's RTP (Music Academy performance) The pallavi is ananda poorna .... something. The PK he has sung is splendid.

Purvi Kalyani is a raga which puts me to sleep. The shorter Rishabam note is very sober and hence this effect probably.
I personally think sudhha madhyama ragas are more challenging and are more pleasing over a longer period of time (say a 15 minute alapana) and have al ot more to offer (listener) and exploit (performer). In general P Madhyama ragas do not have the glitter for a very long time. (may be except Kalyani, Shanmugapriya- sometimes)

I partially agree that taking up P Madhyama ragas except Kalyani may be , as a main doesn't demonstrate much of one's vidwat.. for SM ragas, the presence of a shorter Ma note gives one additional swara sthana where one can do more of nirvaham and also gives some ghambeeram & ensures easier mobility while doing the raga alapanai thereby sounding majestic.

P Kalyani & Gamanasramam
I guess if you are tuned to singing Purvi Kalyani, it becomes difficult to avoid the PDPS prayogam while singing Gamanasramam. I also find Purvi Kalyani more interesting & soothing than gamanasramam. May be because I haven't Gamanasramam that much.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 21 May 2009, 19:35

sarang, Although I agree with you on most of your thoughts, I think prathi madhyama rAgas are more gracious than shuddha madhyama ragas. PM adds beauty, depth and clarity to an alapana. Also, PM ragas are very much suitable for sub-main pieces. The popularity of shuddha madhyama ragas are known. In CM, we hold SM ragas in high regard. PM ragas will be refreshing. I mean, we always(70%) hear only SM raga RTP. It will be different and new to try out/hear a RTP in a prathi madhyama raga. "New" in the sense, path-breaking. =)

balusatya · Post by **balusatya** » 21 May 2009, 23:46

sarang wrote:P Kalyani as a main raga
MLV 's rendition is mind blowing too. (Try listening to her Ekambranatham (MD composition)). A lot of variety makes us wonder if Purvi Kalyani can be sung this way
Also Semmangudi mama's RTP (Music Academy performance) The pallavi is ananda poorna .... something. The PK he has sung is splendid.

Purvi Kalyani is a raga which puts me to sleep. The shorter Rishabam note is very sober and hence this effect probably.
I personally think sudhha madhyama ragas are more challenging and are more pleasing over a longer period of time (say a 15 minute alapana) and have al ot more to offer (listener) and exploit (performer). In general P Madhyama ragas do not have the glitter for a very long time. (may be except Kalyani, Shanmugapriya- sometimes)

I partially agree that taking up P Madhyama ragas except Kalyani may be , as a main doesn't demonstrate much of one's vidwat.. for SM ragas, the presence of a shorter Ma note gives one additional swara sthana where one can do more of nirvaham and also gives some ghambeeram & ensures easier mobility while doing the raga alapanai thereby sounding majestic.

P Kalyani & Gamanasramam
I guess if you are tuned to singing Purvi Kalyani, it becomes difficult to avoid the PDPS prayogam while singing Gamanasramam. I also find Purvi Kalyani more interesting & soothing than gamanasramam. May be because I haven't Gamanasramam that much.

Remember RTP in Gamanasrama by MLV-Sangeetha release I think!

sarang · Post by **sarang** » 22 May 2009, 17:49

balusatya- can you pass on a copy of that pallavi? I'd love to listen to it