Jayachamaraja Odeyar (Mysore Maharajah) - Part II

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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drshrikaanth
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#1226

Post by drshrikaanth » 30 Jan 2007, 01:12

Suji Ram wrote:
ramakriya wrote:Added this kriti to the wiki page (generated by arunk's editor)

http://www.rasikas.org/wiki/sri-mahaganapatim-bhajeham


-Ramakriya
That' very nice . We could add the meaning of the kriti at the end given by DRS- in English offcourse.
Dear friends. I appreciate the interest and enthusiasm you all have in oDeyar and in my notes on his kRtis. At the same time, I want to make it clear that I Do Not want them to be copied and posted on Wiki or anywhere else. I have the intention of publishing these myself. Iam perfectly happy for people to give link to the discussion here at the forum; and also for the material to be shared privately for furthering interest in oDeyar and his kRtis so long as the interests are Non-Commercial. But otherwise, what I have discussed is as such my intellectual property copyrighted to myself.

Thank you all for your understanding and cooperation.
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cmlover
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#1227

Post by cmlover » 30 Jan 2007, 01:18

Agreed!
The discussion at JC thread as well as DRS thread are his intellectual property and his permission should be sought to copy or display in any other format. Of course a reference to the relevant thread can be provided without any ado! Let us all respect 'copy and intellectual property rights' which is the fundamental policy of this Forum!
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cmlover
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#1228

Post by cmlover » 30 Jan 2007, 01:26

Ramakriya

Very nice indeed! You have done a lovely formatting. I wish I could read :)
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Raja Chandra
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#1229

Post by Raja Chandra » 31 Jan 2007, 23:28

From a sense of serendipity to what a pity.

I feel as though i do not belong here !

sorry folks.

good bye and thanks

raja
Last edited by Raja Chandra on 31 Jan 2007, 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
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cmlover
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#1230

Post by cmlover » 01 Feb 2007, 00:39

!
?
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sridevi
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#1231

Post by sridevi » 01 Feb 2007, 00:45

CML..
my thoughts exactly...

Sridevi
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kmrasika
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#1232

Post by kmrasika » 01 Feb 2007, 07:14

raja chandra wrote:From a sense of serendipity to what a pity.

I feel as though i do not belong here !

sorry folks. good bye and thanks
??? I failed to understand your statement. I don't think anything expressed had be averse to your contribution so far. I guess Dr Shrikaanth has the right to publish his postings of the lyrics of JCRW krithis as it was quite an effort on his part in doing so for thread and yours the instrumental task of getting the audio up (of course, with contributors pitching in) .
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bala747
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#1233

Post by bala747 » 01 Feb 2007, 10:26

I think (From what I have been reading on this thread as a lurker) it seems that RC probably (mis?)interpreted DRS like this:

"You all are free to discuss the krithis and my explanations here only for non commercial purposes because I want to make some money out of it, seeing how popular this thread has become because of the detailed posts by me and RC"

(Please correct me RC if I am wrong)

I personally don't see why putting them on the Wiki, with due credit given would affect sri DRS in any other way apart from commercial, nor do I see how it would affect his claim to intellectual property (after all, it would be credited as his contribution, seeing that he hasn't registered them with a registering body as his copyright). While there is nothing really wrong with publishing them for money, and sri DRS is fully within his rights to do so, it might not go down well with some people here, like sri RC who has contributed a great deal with his posts and uploads in the earlier and later halves of this thread, and now probably feels cheated that while he is willing to share what he has in terms of time and effort for altruistic motives, DRS has been thinking of using it for commercial purposes. Personally I don't care one way or another what DRS or whoever wants to do with his/her posts about any topic.

However, I thought however that anything posted on a public forum that has not been already registered as a copyright, the post automatically becomes public domain, and hence I don't think Sri DRS has any legal right to stop anyone from merely cutting and pasting from one section of the board to another (forum to wiki). I don't think he can actually do anything about it. Anything posted in a public forum like this one without having already been copyrighted immediately negates the claim of being someone's IP a posteriori. If he had already registered it before posting here, then his posts would be copyrighted, if he has not registered it yet, it's not claimable as his "intellectual property" nor is it "copyrighted to (him)self". If he wanted to publish it he should not have posted it here first. He should have published it and THEN posted it here. In fact most forums prohibit expressly the posting of already copyrighted material anyway.

Copyright laws in most nations states that a work in public domain is someone's IP only when it has been registered as such by that person beforehand and a person cannot claim copyright on things that he has not registered with a body that governs intellectual property. In fact even if DRS were to register it in the future, the law is murky on how applicable it would be to things that have been done in the past. At best he can, as a moderator, remove the wiki posts AFTER he has published them or at least after he has registered the bits of information as his IP with the copyright registering body in the UK. Mere expression of an intention to publish is not a good protection. He should have published it first and then discussed it here as the copyright owner, rahter than the other way round because legally he has not much to stand on at the moment. Furthermore it would have at least made his intentions clear about wanting to publish his interpretation of JC's krithis.

DISCLAIMER: I am not questioning DRS's motives nor am I making moral statements that what he is doing is right or wrong or neither. I don't care one way or another. I am just speaking from a third person's perspective, and from the perspective of someone who dabbles in copyright law a fair bit. All I am saying is he should not expect people to not post on the wiki just because he wants to do something with them at a future date. Also, words like "copyright" and "intellectual property" have many connotations and implications, both legal and ethical, and he should have been mindful of them before using them here.
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cmlover
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#1234

Post by cmlover » 01 Feb 2007, 11:20

Bala

You have gone too far speculating on the motives and behavior of two fine gentlemen. Unloading the dirty linen from your mind is disgusting bordering on slander. The legal issues (if any) can be resolved by concerned lawyers. We are all grateful for these gentlemen for sharing their wealth of knowledge with us at this Forum. The least we can do is to be respectful of their privacy and acknowledge their rights to their own thoughts and materials. Kindly desist speculating and from unwarranted Freelance legal advice. THANK YOU
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bala747
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#1235

Post by bala747 » 01 Feb 2007, 12:14

cmlover wrote:Bala

You have gone too far speculating on the motives and behavior of two fine gentlemen. Unloading the dirty linen from your mind is disgusting bordering on slander. The legal issues (if any) can be resolved by concerned lawyers. We are all grateful for these gentlemen for sharing their wealth of knowledge with us at this Forum. The least we can do is to be respectful of their privacy and acknowledge their rights to their own thoughts and materials. Kindly desist speculating and from unwarranted Freelance legal advice. THANK YOU
I accidentally hit Report instead of Quote. Mods please ignore it.

CML please don't misunderstand me. LEt me explain.

I already mentioned that I have no intention of questioning the motives of anyone. I did explain that very clearly, and there is nothing wrong with DRS publishing his posts for whatever reason, and we have no right to speculate on the motives, be they commercial, social, political or anything, BUT his post about the porting to Wiki was open to interpretation. I already made that expressly clear. However, his post was open to interpretation, and words like 'copyright' and 'intellectual property' are very loaded words, open to different interpretations and connotations. I merely pointed out that DRS should have registered his posts first before claiming copyright. That would have made this whole issue moot. Otherwise, his post was open to interpretation, and I pointed out one way his words could be interpreted. There was nothing inherently wrong in my interpretation of his words and I did never stick it on to RC as if he said it, nor did I imply that that was EXACTLY what he thought. I preceded my statement with "I THINK", meaning to say this was my personal opinion, and not of anyone else, be they RC or DRS.

In fact I expressly also pointed out that RC probably (mis)interpreted DRS and even put a line requesting a correction if I was wrong. What further precaution was there to take against my intention being misunderstood? What was so slanderous about that statement? It was an innocent speculation that had nothing to do with the motives of persons in question. People misinterpret words all the time.

You accuse me of unloading 'dirty linen of my mind' and dispensing 'freelance legal advice', which I think is far more 'slanderous' and unbecoming of someone your age and stature to call me that without even trying to see why I said what I said. I never called any of them any names, and I certainly did not have any motive for 'slandering' them. I was just particularly upset that RC had stopped posting after DRS's post and tried to speculate why. There is nothing wrong with speculating, whether you personally like it or not.

DRS I know has every right to publish what he posts here, and if he wants to, good for him. I have no personal stake in it, and neither do I have any in RC. However, as a moderator, he should also realise that his posts can be interpreted by different people in different ways, and if he was not comfortable with people porting his posts, then he should have put a copyright notice on his posts as a signature or something. It would have ensured that there is no misunderstanding. His motives or RC's motives have no bearing on the discussion in any way.
Last edited by bala747 on 01 Feb 2007, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
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srkris
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#1236

Post by srkris » 01 Feb 2007, 12:20

I think what DRS is saying is that he has provided the explanations to the kritis for the members of the forum to derive non-commercial use, and not for being copied without his permission at other places outside of this forum. There is nothing more to it. DRS is entitled to publish his explanations/translations of the kritis which he has taken time to provide.

If Shri Raja Chandra has taken it in any other sense, maybe DRS and RC should get together to clear the misunderstanding, if any misunderstanding exists. Let us stop the mediation which we are attempting here. They both know each other and AFAIK they are on good terms with each other, so they can clarify their apprehensions with each other.

The wiki can do with the song lyrics alone, or with translations having the permission of the translator concerned.
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rajumds
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#1237

Post by rajumds » 01 Feb 2007, 12:22

CML

What RC did & Bala wrote are absoultely right. If DRS had made his intentions clear at the begining, then those who contributed could have had a chance to decide whether they should contribute or not. After so many people have spent their time & effort in contributing to this thread , suddenly DRS claiming copyright does leave a bad taste.

If whatever one posts in a public forum can be claimed to be copyrighted, then internet will no longer be a source of knowledge. The very fact one posts in a forum means that he is willing to share his knowledge with the world. Look at the amount of code available in software sites. If the authors had wanted they could have made some real money by selling those codes, but they had chosen discussion forums & interenet as means of sharing whata they know. That is the spirit of online forums where you share your knowledge with unknown people.

Compare this with the work being done by msakella in talaprastara thread wherein he is posting from from his copyrighted, published books for the sake of sharing.

Compare this with the work of coolkarni who shares his music with us all just for the sake of sharing. I know the amount of time & money he spends in collecting those rare gems.
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srkris
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#1238

Post by srkris » 01 Feb 2007, 12:59

Raju,

DRS has not prohibited sharing of his translations/explanations if its going to be for non-commercial use. He merely doesnt want it to be republished elsewhere without his permission. This does not relate to kritis of Wodeyar, but only to his explanations for the same.
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rajumds
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#1239

Post by rajumds » 01 Feb 2007, 13:57

srkris wrote:Raju,

DRS has not prohibited sharing of his translations/explanations if its going to be for non-commercial use.
srkis

i am sorry if i look like nitpicking. but is transferring from the thread to wiki page commercial? That was the suggestion to which DRS replied. So it is clear that he doesn't want the explanations to be posted in our own wiki which accrues no commercial gain to anyone.
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mohan
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#1240

Post by mohan » 01 Feb 2007, 16:08

I agree with the comments rajumds. I can't see much difference between a Wiki and this forum. If I am writing an article on the Mysore Maharajah and am researching on google I can search for "odeyar maharajah" and come straight to this forum. If it is proper research I would source anything I used from here with a link to the site.
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SSK
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#1241

Post by SSK » 10 May 2007, 22:08

May be I missed it. But the following is a rendition of Mysore Maharaja's composition "SadhaSivamUpasmahe" in Raga Sarasangi , Adi tala by Prof. Mysore Sri V. Ramarathnam in 1985 at Bangalore Gayana Samaja. The accompanying artists vidwan M. Chandrasekar on violin and Sri Vellore Ramabhadran on Mridangam. Vocal support is by Smt. Uma Prasanna and Smt Sukanya Prabhakar

http://mysorevramarathnam.org/Concerts/ ... odeyar.MP3
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jayaram
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#1242

Post by jayaram » 12 Jun 2007, 02:36

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayachamar ... ar_Bahadur
Excerpt:
"He had intended to be a concert pianist and had been accepted by Sergei Rachmaninoff as pupil.But the untimley death of both his father the Yuvaraja Kanteerava Narasimharaja Wadiyar in 1939 and his uncle the Maharaja Krishnaraja Wadiyar IV in 1940 meant giving up all ideas of a Musical career,as he had to succeed the throne of Mysore."

Imagine that - Wodeyar as a disciple of Rachmaninoff! Western music's loss is indeed a great gain for the world of CM.

And a lovely picture of two royals together...

JC Wodeyar with Queen Elizabeth II

Image
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meena
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#1243

Post by meena » 12 Jun 2007, 04:16

Excerpt:
"He had intended to be a concert pianist and had been accepted by Sergei Rachmaninoff as pupil.But the untimley death of both his father the Yuvaraja Kanteerava Narasimharaja Wadiyar in 1939 and his uncle the Maharaja Krishnaraja Wadiyar IV in 1940 meant giving up all ideas of a Musical career,as he had to succeed the throne of Mysore."

Imagine that - Wodeyar as a disciple of Rachmaninoff! Western music's loss is indeed a great gain for the world of CM.
If u had read the complete HHJW thread, u would have made note that we had discussed Sergei Rachmaninoff: read post #1212
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harish.krishnan213
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#1244

Post by harish.krishnan213 » 30 Oct 2007, 17:34

Can someone post the links to download his kritis? i found a few in this thread which are not working!
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srkris
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#1245

Post by srkris » 30 Oct 2007, 22:14

HM the Maharaja with Kripananda Variar

Image
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arasi
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#1246

Post by arasi » 31 Oct 2007, 04:57

Vodeyar and Variyar are on the left and right (!). In the middle is the then chief minister Bhaktavatsalam.
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ramakriya
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#1247

Post by ramakriya » 18 Jul 2008, 03:04

July 18th is JCW's birthday.

Here is a link to a speech by Mahamahopadhyaya Dr R Satyanarayana.

http://neelanjana.wordpress.com/2008/07 ... ra-odeyar/

(Translated by yours truly. This was posted earlier in this thread. Since there are a couple of thousand new members in the forum now, I thought this might interest those who had missed it the first time)

-Ramakriya
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gowri
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#1248

Post by gowri » 09 Aug 2008, 01:04

Can anyone please upload 'Kayo Sri Gowri' again?
Thanks.
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SSK
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#1249

Post by SSK » 01 Oct 2008, 04:10

I was told that couple of times a week, TV Stations in Bangalore are broadcasting presentations of compositions of wodeyar by various artists. The format of the presentation is something like lec-dem, wherein the artist presents a composition with explanation of meaning of Pallavi, AnuPallavi and Charana portions. I am wondering how some one not in Bangalore can get the see these broadcasts.
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kmrasika
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#1250

Post by kmrasika » 03 Oct 2008, 08:50

SSK wrote:I was told that couple of times a week, TV Stations in Bangalore are broadcasting presentations of compositions of wodeyar by various artists. The format of the presentation is something like lec-dem, wherein the artist presents a composition with explanation of meaning of Pallavi, AnuPallavi and Charana portions. I am wondering how some one not in Bangalore can get the see these broadcasts.
That would be nice. I think the program's called "ShrIvidyA darShana."

In the meanwhile, watch and listen to Smt. nAgavalli nAgarAj, an exponent of oDeyAr kr.tIs, render some of them below. Thanks be to whoever put them up. They're also renditions of compositions of other composers as well.

1. ShrI mahA gaNapatiM - aThANA: http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=6FQooH77ETY

2. sarasvatim bhagavatim - hamsavinOdini: http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ_Am7L461I

3. brahmANDa valayE - mAND: http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=yxMzOBo-aEw

4. cintayAmi jagadambAm - hindOLam: http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=tS0IHHL-o0Q
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