Mayuram Vedanayakam Pillai

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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mahakavi
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#1

Post by mahakavi » 21 May 2007, 22:30

Someone wanted to start a topic on MVP. Here it is. For a start on a discussion of one of his songs, "ninaippadeppOdu nenjcE.." in the rAgam nAdanAmakriyA please visit:
http://www.chennaionline.com/musicnew/t ... song10.asp
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kmrasika
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#2

Post by kmrasika » 22 May 2007, 08:13

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bhaktha
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#3

Post by bhaktha » 22 May 2007, 08:17

Thanks for starting this thread mahakavi ji...
Waiting to hear more...
-bhaktha
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bhaktha
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#4

Post by bhaktha » 23 May 2007, 09:47

Some songs by this great soul?
-bhaktha
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thanjavur
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#5

Post by thanjavur » 23 May 2007, 19:18

Last edited by thanjavur on 23 May 2007, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.
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thanjavur
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#6

Post by thanjavur » 24 May 2007, 05:05

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bhaktha
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#7

Post by bhaktha » 24 May 2007, 12:32

The hindolam by GNB is out of the world. Thanks to Thanjavur.
-bhaktha
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kutty
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#8

Post by kutty » 09 Aug 2007, 08:21

In Thamizh literature, there are beautiful and great works, whether in poetry or prose. Some touch our hearts deeply and are very useful in our day to day lives and form constant companions and references. I include in this category TirukkuRal, MAyUram VEdanAyakam PiLLai's songs, PaTTinattAr PADalgaL, TAyumAnavar PADalgaL, PApanAsam Sivan songs and BhArathi's works besides, MUdurai, KonRai VEndan, AtticUDi, NItisatakam, NAladiyAr etc. There are various works that deal with historical events, mythologies etc that are not included.

I personally feel that the way we have hyped other SAhitya kartAs, who have touched a specific area only, like bhakthi , we have not treated MAyUram VEdanAyakam PiLLai (MVP). The songs of MVP are really well made and are well segmented. They are meant for the welfare of the community as a whole. Like TirukkuRaL, he has covered mostly every walk of life and all categories of people.

For instance, here is a beautiful song that I heard in 50's from Late Balu, a disciple of GNB who taught this to my sister. It is in the form of advice to a daughter from an affectionate father. There is another one in the form of advice to the son too. If members are interested, we may take up some of MVP's songs that are infrequently rendered or not heard by many.


rAgamAlikai MAyUram vEda nAyakam PiLLai rUpakam


hindOLam

pa: buddiyidu magaLE unakku naR (buddi)

apa: nittiyamum paran nEsam viDAtE
Sattiya mArgattait tANDikkeDAtE (buddi)

shaNmukhapriyA

ca1: mAtA pitAkkaLai magizhndu nI tAngu
maNNil nalla piLLai enRu pEr vAngu
tIdugaL unakkuc ceydOrkkumE tIngu
ceyyAmal iruppadun tiruvuLappAngu (buddi)

SahAnA

ca2:j~nAnapustagangaLai nALum nI vAsi
nallavaruDan kUDi nAdanai nEsi
Inar tamakku j~nAnamE upadEsi
enRum guNavatiyE magarAsi (buddi)

SuraTi

ca3: uyir pOnAlum nI oru poy collAdE
un vIDukaDandu ayal vIDu cellAdE
payil maRu purushargaL pArkka nillAdE
pAvattaik kanavilum ninaittal pollAdE (buddi)

mOhanam

ca4: tappAmal eLiyOrait tAngik kai tUkku
dAna darumam japam tapattil nAL pOkku
kaippAkattAlE un kaNavanAr mUkku
gammenRu maNamERak kAy kaRi Akku (buddi)

bUpALam

ca5: viDiyumun ezhundu nI vElaiyai nADu
vITTaik kaNNADipOl viLakkik kaiyADu
uDalum ADaiyum azhukku ozhiya nIrADu
uDal perukkat tIni uNbadu kEDu (buddi)

madyamAvati

ca6: vAzhvu vandAlum nI mayangittuLLAdE
maRRavar izhivai un vAyAl viLLAdE
tAzhvu vandAlum nI calittuk koLLAdE
Sakalamum paran ceyal taDuttut taLLAdE (buddi)

ராகமாலிகை மாயூரம் வேத நாயகம் பிள்ளை ரூபகம்


ஹிந்தோளம்

ப: புத்தியிது மகளே உனக்கு நற் (புத்தி)

அப: நித்தியமும் பரன் நேசம் விடாதே
ஸத்திய மார்கத்தைத் தாண்டிக்கெடாதே (புத்தி)

ஷண்முகப்ரியா

ச1: மாதா பிதாக்களை மகிழ்ந்து நீ தாங்கு
மண்ணில் நல்ல பிள்ளை என்று பேர் வாங்கு
தீதுகள் உனக்குச் செய்தோர்க்குமே தீங்கு
செய்யாமல் இருப்பதுன் திருவுளப்பாங்கு (புத்தி)

ஸஹானா

ச2:ஞானபுஸ்தகங்களை நாளும் நீ வாசி
நல்லவருடன் கூடி நாதனை நேசி
ஈனர் தமக்கு ஞானமே உபதேசி
என்றும் குணவதியே மகராசி (புத்தி)

ஸுரடி

ச3: உயிர் போனாலும் நீ ஒரு பொய் சொல்லாதே
உன் வீடுகடந்து அயல் வீடு செல்லாதே
பயில் மறு புருஷர்கள் பார்க்க நில்லாதே
பாவத்தைக் கனவிலும் நினைத்தல் பொல்லாதே (புத்தி)

மோஹனம்

ச4: தப்பாமல் எளியோரைத் தாங்கிக் கை தூக்கு
தான தருமம் ஜபம் தபத்தில் நாள் போக்கு
கைப்பாகத்தாலே உன் கணவனார் மூக்கு
கம்மென்று மணமேறக் காய் கறி ஆக்கு (புத்தி)

பூபாளம்

ச5: விடியுமுன் எழுந்து நீ வேலையை நாடு
வீட்டைக் கண்ணாடிபோல் விளக்கிக் கையாடு
உடலும் ஆடையும் அழுக்கு ஒழிய நீராடு
உடல் பெருக்கத் தீனி உண்பது கேடு (புத்தி)

மத்யமாவதி

ச6: வாழ்வு வந்தாலும் நீ மயங்கித்துள்ளாதே
மற்றவர் இழிவை உன் வாயால் விள்ளாதே
தாழ்வு வந்தாலும் நீ சலித்துக் கொள்ளாதே
ஸகலமும் பரன் செயல் தடுத்துத் தள்ளாதே (புத்தி)


There are four more charanams and these have not been included above, including the mudhra charaNam. If members need I can post them too. Is any audio available for this?
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arasi
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#9

Post by arasi » 09 Aug 2007, 09:00

Haven't heard that one!
The other song must be: nalla peNNaip pAr nI dUtA!
nalla peNNaip pAr nI dUtA!

allaDA kEL inda bUmiyin mElE--
AyirankAlattup payirAgaiyAlE

In husEni, Adi tALam
Last edited by arasi on 09 Aug 2007, 09:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Lakshman
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#10

Post by Lakshman » 09 Aug 2007, 16:58

The song buddhiyidu magaLE has 10 caraNAs.

buddhi idu. rAgA: shahAnA. Adi tALA.

P: buddhi idu maghaLE unakku nar-buddhi idu maghaLE
A: nittiyamum paran nEsham viDAdE sattiya mArgattai tANDik-keDAdE
C1: Alayam gurukkaLai ashaTTai paNNAdE aDikkaDi japam sheyyAdirukka voNNAdE
kAlam tanai vINil kazhikka eNNAdE kaNNE iDai viDAmal uNNAdE
2: mAtA pitAkkaLai magizhndu nI tAngu maNNil nalla piLLai enru pEr vAngu
tIdugaL unakk sheidOrkkumE tIngumE sheyyAmaliruppadu tiruvuLLap-pAngu
3: jnAna pustakangaLai nALum nI vAsi nallavaruDan kUDi nAthanai nEsi
hInar tamakku jnAnamE upadEsi enrum guNavatiyE maharAji
4: uyir pOnAlum nI oru poi shollAdE un vIDu kaDandayal vIDu shellAdE
payilum maru puruSar pArkka nillAdE bhAvattai kanavilum ninaittal pollAdE
5: ambu vizhiyE aram kai viDAdE arpap-poruL virumbi ayyO keDAdE
vambuk-kArigaLuDan vArttai koDAdE maTravar poruLaik-kaNDAshaip-paDAdE
6: vAzhvu vandAlum nI mayangit-tuLLAdE maTravar izhivai un vAyAl viLLAdE
tAzhvu vandAlum nI shalittuk-koLLAdE sakalamum paran sheyal taDuttut-taLLAdE
7: mAmi nAttigaLai maditturavADu maghaLum tAyum pOlE magizhndu nI kUDu
sAmiyAghum kaNavan dayavai nI tEDu talaiyaNai mantram Odudal kEDu
8: tappAmal eLiyarait-tAngik-kai tUkku dAna dharmam japa tapattil nAL pOkku
kai pAkattilE un kaNavanAr mUkku gammenru maNamEra kAi kariyAkku
9: viDiyumun ezhundu nI vElaiyai nADu vITTaik-kaNNADi pOl viLakkik-kaiyADu
uDalum Adaiyum azhukkozhiya nIrADu uDalum perukkat-tIni uNbadu kEDu
10: sonda vElaigaL sheyya shObi nayyAdE tunbam sheidavarkkum nI tunbam sheyyAdE
vanda eLiyavarai nI vATTi vaiyAdE mA vEdanAyakan vArttai poyyAdE
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kutty
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#11

Post by kutty » 10 Aug 2007, 23:55

Arasi
The other song must be: nalla peNNaip pAr nI dUtA!
nalla peNNaip pAr nI dUtA!

allaDA kEL inda bUmiyin mElE--
AyirankAlattup payirAgaiyAlE

In husEni, Adi tALam
What you have mentioned is on sending a messenger in search of a good match for the boy with advice as to how she should be. In 10 charanams MVP neatly mentions the virtues of a good girl. Prior to that he mentions the qualities of a woman par excellence in SArangA, RUpakam in 5 charaNams (evaLO avaLE kula nAri). The messenger comes back and informs that he has seen a beautiful girl with all the qualities he was asked to look into. This is in SourAshtram, aTa tALam and the messenger describes her virtues through 10 wonderful stanzas (panchvarNa kiLi pOl oru peNNai). The advice of a father to a son is detailed in 6 stanzas by MVP in mOhanam, Adi.

Lakshman

Hope you have seen the last line of my posting above. There are some minor corrections to the additional charaNams as mentioned bold letters below:

C1: Alayam gurukkaLai acaTTai paNNAdE
aDikkaDi jepam ceyyAdirukkavoNNAdE

C5: aRpapporuL virumbi aiyO keDAdE
maRRavar poruLaik kaNDAsaip paDAdE (buddi)

C7: mAmi nAttigaLai madittuRavADu
cAmiyArunk kaNavan dayavai nI tEDu
talaiyaNai mandiram Odudal kEDu (buddi

c10: condavElaigaL ceyya chOmbi naiyAdE
tunbam ceydavarkkum nI tunbam ceyyAdE
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Lakshman
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#12

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 01:41

Sorry I missed seening the last line of your posting. Thanks.
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Lakshman
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#13

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 02:03

Kutty:
I would like to make a comment here regarding the corrections. We all know, by now, the correct usage of the R in tamil words.
But for whose benefit are you pointing these things out? Tamilians already know when to use such characters and non tamilans are only interested in the pronunciation of the word and not its structure. They don't care if the word is spelled aram or aRam because they are unaware of the meaning. How would a non tamilian read the word spelled by you as muRRiRRu (which I would write as muTriTru)?
Until some of you, who seem to be so fussy about this, come up with a way to write the tamil words caraNam and sharaNam, pAvam and bhAvam etc., so that they can be pronounced correctly with respect to the context, I will keep posting the lyrics as I have them in my database.
If people who are not familiar with tamil also have problems reading my postings of tamil lyrics then I will stop posting them.
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arunk
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#14

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 02:14

lakshman,

I just want to point out that n some contexts usage of R in particular w.r.t r is not a script idiosyncracy. There is a pronunciation difference - albeit subtle and can get lost in usage. The "R" sound is harsher/harder. kATril for kaRRil is ok and perhaps even preferable, aram for aRAM would not be accurate - phonetically.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 11 Aug 2007, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Lakshman
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#15

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 02:17

Thanks Arun for pointing out the subtle difference between aram and aRam.
But you have not commented on other points that I raised.
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arunk
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#16

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 02:23

i think in other cases, it is a matter of script hence may not not matter as much when conveying pronounciation.

Even googling gives you hits for both அர்ப்ப (arpa) அற்ப (aRpa).

Basically if the harder consonant (pa, ca, ka) is to follow a the ra/Ra sound, it would "R" as in aRpa, naRtogai, poRcilambu, taRkAlam

I believe then it is a matter of script rules. But I would also think since tamil pronounciation tends towards ease (and may be reflects natural tendencies), the harder Ra sound maybe employed here - i am not 100% sure.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 11 Aug 2007, 02:24, edited 1 time in total.
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arunk
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#17

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 02:29

arunk wrote:But I would also think since tamil pronounciation tends towards ease (and may be reflects natural tendencies), the harder Ra sound maybe employed here - i am not 100% sure.
To elaborate, you wont find nD combination in tamizh (other languages too???). It can only be ND as in kaNDEn. So one can say karpu (in transliteration - i.e. indicating pronounciation) is like writing kanDEn. It would be best to write the latter as kaNDEn eventhough i think most people would probably still get it from kanDEn . Same way for kaRpu vs karpu.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 11 Aug 2007, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
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arasi
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#18

Post by arasi » 11 Aug 2007, 02:54

Lakshman,
I grew up (not fully yet, as it is with the script too!) on the forum when it came to reading and writing the roman script. S for SyAmalA was very agreeable to me to differentiate it from ushA. I am still coping with RR as in maRRa (I lean towards maTRa). When there isn't quite a standardized way, I am also sailing along, adapting sometimes, wondering at other times.

Your point about the non-tamizh reading rasikAs is quite valid. The way you post songs makes it easy for them to read. tamizhs do not need it. Even in lyrics that we don't know, we know whether it is r or R by looking at the word. We see the value of all your painstaking postings. They get read by those who cannot read the tamizh script. This is the only way we can get non tamizhs to get interested in tamizh songs. What's more--they can sing them correctly too. As you point out--while the word is pronounced, we do not make out if it is r or R! aRam if pronounced as aRam with emphasis on the R would be musically jarring. In speech too...
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arunk
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#19

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 03:08

arasi - If one were to sound Ra such that it is musically jarring would it be possible then that it is "over-emphasized"? Sort of like how some tamilians say bHakti to make sure they are not say bakthi and thus overplay the "ha' sound in bha and other similar consonants :). I have heard the latter complaint and I think it is valid - perhaps because I think when I am conscious I overplay it!


Arun
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Lakshman
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#20

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 03:30

Arunk: Please take a look at the lyrics in roman script here. Why are the words so different from what we see on this forum?

http://www.geocities.com/sujsree/lyrics ... davam.html
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arasi
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#21

Post by arasi » 11 Aug 2007, 03:36

lakshman,
My head reels! How many kinds of writing are out there!
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Lakshman
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#22

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 03:48

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arunk
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#23

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 03:49

(i think we are diving into yet another cursed diversions. But Hey! For the first time I am actually realizing this early enough :)! This post at least may have to be moved).

lakshman - as you probably know
1. Different people use different transl. schemes. There are no firm standards.
2. Most transl. schemes are geared only towards representing how things are written and not pronounciation (i.e. they are really intended for people who know the language - and came into being when viewing anything other than english on computers was rare). This is the most common thing I have seen. It is quite useless for our purposes here.
3. People make mistakes - inadvertently and sometimes because they may not know. I am a tamilian but I am sure I will make mistakes even for some tamil words.
4. Some things may be ambiguous - i.e. food for linguistic scholarly debate.

I think with your source, since your intent is to represent pronunciation doing kATril/kATRil as opposed to kARRil is fine and better (atleast IMO). It may seem odd for some who know the language, but if they get used to the fact that you are trying to capture pronounciation, they should be able to adjust.

It is quite impossible to represent all the pronounciation subtletiies in a transl. scheme - I mean even most scripts dont do that.

The only "complaint" I have about your sources is your use of "sha" everywhere in tamil krithis. Note that this sort of gets stickier if you are saying you are conveying pronounciation. But then as we have discussed umpteen times, the pronunciation of the ca/sa letter in real life is not a cut and dry issue. So it is fine- but "Sa" would definitely be much better. Currently you would say Ashai (desire) and bAshai (language). Hence use of "sha" is ambiguous The first one should be either Asai or ASai (Ashai would viewed as a thick accent :))

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 11 Aug 2007, 03:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Lakshman
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#24

Post by Lakshman » 11 Aug 2007, 04:15

I use sh because of my background in samskrt. Somehow I cannot think of writing Ashai as Asai (sa as in sangItam).
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arunk
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#25

Post by arunk » 11 Aug 2007, 05:41

:) - even though this probably calls under point #4 in my earlier post, that (sa instead of Sa) is the "more correct" pronounciation for all those words except Siva etc. i.e. Sanskrit imports which have not ingrained deeply into the language.

Note that "sa" usage is not a colloquial corruption (like people do la for La, na for Na, and La for Zha), nor is it a tamil approximation (like ba for bha) like some argue. In fact it is sort of the exact opposite which has already come up many times in this forum (hate to revisit it yet again :()

Besides, in sanskrit there is s, Sa and Sha - shouldnt we distinguish the latter two? Its the same here for ASai vs bAshai.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 11 Aug 2007, 05:42, edited 1 time in total.
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