Illayaraja

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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rajeshnat
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#1 Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Where can we place this isaignani illayaraja something much more than vidwan and vidushi but let me take him as vaggeyakkara as after sadguru Thyagaraja , dikshitar and there is illayaraja. I feel like writing all that i know for pages and pages as I have followed, talked and discussed right from as early as my age 7 to 10 when I just knew about him(that is early 80's) to slow and steady accumulation of missed and refreshed past thru YouTube. Of course there are million like me who can do the same.

See the love for music and he paying obesiance to navarathri,particularly he advising the one and only super star prodigy mandolin srinivas in 1980 , just read this lovely writeup of him in The Hindu dated Oct 18th,2018.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/ch ... 253337.ece

Being navarathri and saraswati pooja today let us just start with one of his 8000 to 10000 wonders appropriate for Devi .

Janani Janaani - yamunakalyani :) - from the film Thai Mookambigai
God of Music sung this song in his own voice, penned by vaali(of koovi azhaithal - valaci fame :) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJJIt8j ... JJIt8jh1Uc

CRama
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#2 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

Rajesh, I have sent you some of the photos of the concert held in Ilayarajas' house through whatsapp. Pl see.

rajeshnat
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#3 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Image
God Of Music just entering rasikas.org on Navarathri -2018. Warm welcome isaignani

rshankar
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#4 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rshankar »

rajeshnat wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 18:31Where can we place this isaignani illayaraja something much more than vidwan and vidushi but let me take him as vaggeyakkara as after sadguru Thyagaraja , dikshitar and there is illayaraja.
I am going to let that pass, but when you look at the definition of the word vAggEyakAra - it means someone who wrote the lyrics and set them to music themselves. Has Sri Ilayaraja done that? I know he has set lyrics to immortal tunes, but has he written the lyrics and set them to music?

rajeshnat
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#5 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

rshankar wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 22:23
rajeshnat wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 18:31Where can we place this isaignani illayaraja something much more than vidwan and vidushi but let me take him as vaggeyakkara as after sadguru Thyagaraja , dikshitar and there is illayaraja.
I am going to let that pass, but when you look at the definition of the word vAggEyakAra - it means someone who wrote the lyrics and set them to music themselves. Has Sri Ilayaraja done that? I know he has set lyrics to immortal tunes, but has he written the lyrics and set them to music?
Ravi
1. In early days for the first 5 to 7 years 1976 to 1982 timeframe quite a few numbers were written by him and reused for films for many years later.

2. Post 2000 many movies he was a lyricist , but the truth of the matter his tunes were not that catchy as in 76 to 94.

3. Check the song samayal paadame ,(hear the whole tune you have a ragamaliga from kalyani to vasantha )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os6vPMZlGu0

4. On a devotional album by name gitanjali he wrote a lovely song kamakshi karunavilasini,atleast this number has the possibility of he writing lyrics first and then tuning later exactly answering your query as an investigative journalist if you ever get the kicking drift. :lol:
https://gaana.com/song/kamakshi-karuna-vilasini-4
This kamakshi karuna number with lyrics is brilliant and is very divine. I am pretty sure you love more than me with ur extra focus for lyrics

5.By the way the so called pureplay vaggeyakkaras like GKB,Papanasam Sivan, Trinities(T SS and MD)etc did not have to worry about musical interludes. Only two dimensions lyrics and melody possibly with ofcourse bhakthi. But Illayaraja had to worry atleast few more dimensions like orchestration , interludes ,humming , visual situation.

6.When I talked with Madurai Gold Standard Mani (Madurai GS mani) in our rasikas meet at nageswaran house when TRS maama was there, he was mentioning chumma illa pA music director unlike vaggeyakkaras he said just imagine KV mahadevan, illayaraja from just words in a paper, he even gave an example of a song from that first set of words they create music.

Enjoy your navarathri with atleast kamakshi karuna vilasini

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#6 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHVVbXy ... HVVbXyevuM

Another samayal song from Unnal Mudiyum thampi. Music Ilayaraja. many common usages between both the songs- iin lyrics and ragams too- Kalyani, Vasantha . Both hilarious songs.
Last edited by CRama on 20 Oct 2018, 16:22, edited 1 time in total.

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#7 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

Kamakshi karuna vilasini- Thanks for giving the link. Never knew about this song. Good. However, I will rate Ilayaraja the singer much below Ilayaraja- the composer - remembering a few songs that he has sung in films that I have heard.

CRama
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#8 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

Rajesh, Surprised with your usage of GOLD STANDARD for Madurai G.S.Mani. :D

rajeshnat
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#9 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Crama
Is there a photograph that you took with illayaraja sir. hope you are not modest in not passing that to me.
Illayaraja the singer is indeed not as great as singers SPB(another God of Music for me) or KJY. On kAmakshi karuna vilasini raga check ganeshkant and narayanan , that guy narayanan was once active in creating crossword then went out of forum , illaryaraja is a perennial creator. He was at minimum excellent or at maximum outstanding.

viewtopic.php?t=9832

rajeshnat
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#10 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

All
In general if you have time just go into youtube search Madhura Sudha (ID) whose name is Tesla Ganesh. He is extraordinary in taking ragas ,backgrounds of illayaraja songs, thamizh marabu isai influence of raja sir, he keeps it with a dash of carnatic aarohana and avarohana raga explanation and then goes into different songs . Tesla ganesh also hears carnatic music , i dont know him yet but one friend of mine outside of forum knows him a lot and I think our lalitharam knows him too.

This person Tesla Ganesh has segmented each raga like keeravani, Suddhadhanyasi and atleast 20 + ragas here. See his contribution on his extraordinary contextual explanation without getting carried away to the next topic.

To start with Illayaraja and keeravani are inseperable .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOOeCLF5tP8

CRama
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#11 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

rajesh, I never took a photo with Ilayaraja. There was a big rush for photos and I did notpush myself. IN fact the group photo of Ilayaraja with all artistes and Sivaramakrishnan is taken by me.

sagar
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#12 Re: Illayaraja

Post by sagar »

Dear Sir

Appreciate if you can send me the lyrics and notations for Janani janani in english ? my email ID is [email protected]

Thanks

rajeshnat
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#13 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

rshankar wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 22:23 .....
Has Sri Ilayaraja done that? I know he has set lyrics to immortal tunes, but has he written the lyrics and set them to music?
rajeshnat wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 18:31 .....
3. Check the song samayal paadame ,(hear the whole tune you have a ragamaliga from kalyani to vasantha )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os6vPMZlGu0

4. On a devotional album by name gitanjali he wrote a lovely song kamakshi karunavilasini,atleast this number has the possibility of he writing lyrics first and then tuning later exactly answering your query as an investigative journalist if you ever get the kicking drift. :lol:
https://gaana.com/song/kamakshi-karuna-vilasini-4
This kamakshi karuna number with lyrics is brilliant and is very divine. I am pretty sure you love more than me with ur extra focus for lyrics
Ravi
It just stuck me just today that illayaraja has written lovely lyrics and also composed a great song from the film idhayakovil. The song Idhayam oru kovil has two versions , one sung by illayraja and another by SPB, i love the later.

Personally those years 1985 /1986 was very special and this movie is one of a kind with all songs being great, i think it is the second movie of manirathnam-illayaraja in thamizh, more bigger hits are coming bit later after this

Here is the lyrics wirtten by illayaraja of that great song .It may pass muster with your liking of lyrics
http://www.tamilpaa.com/1253-idhayam-or ... ngs-lyrics

AND
Here is the song sung by another God of Music Sripathy PandithArthyula Balasubrahmanyam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMAD7FTo8JA

See in this song there is a line where illayaraja has written the absolute truth, if I was musician i will take this line and sing as a neraval.
RAma nAmam meethilE nAda thyagarAjarum ... avar paadalil jeeevan athuvE avarAnAr

rajeshnat
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#14 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Personally having spent in the land of Tamilnadu knowing lot of tamil songs of illayaraja and few very popular telugu overlaps like sagarasangamam,about 2 or 3 years back i and few of my US friends are exchanging few private chats of illayaraja in songs other than thamizh. One of my friend was talking about sopanasangeetham and the other was just talking about ashtapadi after they read my recent writeup of vidushi vasundhara concert. One very knowledgable friend who is outside India just casually asked me if I have heard the song aalOlam peelikavadi in the malayalam film aalOlam that got released in 1982. He said the tune is sopanasangeetham and that knowledable friend connected to ashtapadi.

O gosh then hunted to hear this lovely tune of raja sir . KJ yesudas sings this song with kavalam sreekumar singing the ashtapadi , the tune is in the evening breeze raga malayamArutham and incidentally raja sir ends with the ashtapadi priyE chArusheelE in mukhari. I also searched youtube and just found out the song , it is a title song of the movie , Damn it how many great tunes of illayaraja gets wasted as title song , that way it never found a way to doordarshan tv. Raja sir was in phenomenal form in 1982, I was hearing and seeing the thamizh movie payanangal mudivathalai then with no awareness of this song.Now after how many years 36 years I just got to know aalOlam.

Check from 46th second this song aalOlam peelikava with the anchor of malayamarutham and end of mukhari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVCgmrQ42AY

Or

Just hear only the audio song without film visuals in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4AE-oNbG54

rajeshnat
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#15 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

The joy of not knowing something that old but just realizing O Gosh I know it now, that happens with illayaraja:
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Folks who are born in the era of 1960 to say mid 1980s especially in the land of south india were very lucky . Illayaraja was at his musical peak . While my school friends ,college friends and very few relatives are still in the process of hunting and hearing what are all the 1 to 5 percent that we missed of Isaignani Illayaraja Sir having exclusively grown in Madras. This is a process of hunting that is on for atleast 1 to 3 decades . I am contributing bit less , more than me one of my dear school friend is contributing from US .

Here is one that i discovered just few days back through my friend . Illayaraja sir composed this song in 1982. The movie stars are known they are prathap pothan,sarath babu and radhika . But hey why would we all care who is acting in an illayaraja movie . I am only stating that possibly because of the fairly low profile of actors,we all did not know this movie E... V.... Kavi....al which was a commercially unsuccessful movie. In the era of say late 1977 to 1983, illayaraja influence of western is just way too much. My conjecture is he having gone to Dhanraj Master to learn western music would have created and gave these gems with superb layering of melody, harmonics and orchestration. My conjecture is his learning from Dhanraj Master must have gone hand in hand with his creations having intense western harmonics and orchestration.

Observe his layering of extraordinary music which i will just try to say in poor words
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#sa# The rhythm is itself done by the bass guitar . How did he do that see how much music gets focussed with this approach. For a very minimal part there is rhythm rest mostly guitar is the rhythm. Has anyone understood ever bass guitar as much as illayaraja sir

#ri# All guitars are exceptional especially lead guitar . Raja is a genius in playing guitar . I dont think he is playing this piece is my assumption . His team of great guitarists are leading all the way with possibly a tinge of mouth organ (may be) and Keyboard surgical strikes here and there.

#ga# The interludes of violin and flute are omnipresent .You will hear as it strikes your heart at every point. Flute and violin interludes of illayaraja we need another 100 years to explain that

#ma# The first charanam interlude and then a younger yesudas starts with Yey illa manathE isai Paadum sugangaL , the eduppu with the fade of orchestration is just heavenly.

#pa# The second charanam interlude is a guitar coup with violin giving tough fight . Every illayaraja interlude he asks a question and also answers right away.

#da# Quite a lot of songs in the late 70-early 80 era , raja sir has used the whistle phew a lot .In this he just ends magically with a whistle phew.

#ni# Orchestration is just aiding as laya pitha .Pitha is soft and is in the background .The shruthi mAtha ragA with melody is bit stronger and is in the foreground . See the melody mAtha taking forward with little more slight power by yesudas as the charanam progresses with some heavy western touch. Nowadays Lots of carnatic concerts raga matha is in the mercy of laya pitha . Todays film music laya pitha is completely annihilating shruthi raga melody mAtha. But Raja sir gives a balanced and rightful juxtapose .

#sA# One of my friends who is a north indian babu loves illayaraja . He has been taking slowly few steps and understanding and he is slowly assimilating raja sir and slowly he is saying that i am actually right. He usually always cribs that illayaraja is too much south regional and he is not much into north indian or western . I asked him to hear this twice and he is extremely impressed with the guitar .You will hear no south indian touch .The lyrics is in tamil written by Gangai Amaran .Tamil is just not a south indian language but an universal language :oops: can be debated . You cannot debate that isaiTamil is also a western musical :) language as beautiful and simple as English.

#again sA# One of my other friends who is from the land of mammooty and mohanlal whose mother tongue is malayalam . He says hey this song is a malayalam typecast song . He says I feel I am with my grandparents in the hills near thekkady which is his home town. After all i can understand that panniapuram and thekkady are just stones :arrow: throw distance.

Enough of suspense .This is what each of you have to do listen twice preferably just before you sleep at 11pm or when you are yawning at 11AM .

The song lyrics is superb. The song charanam is
kanavil mithakkum ithayam muzhudum
pudhu rAgam uruvaagum thiNam dhOrum
yennathiN inbathilE yeNgengum vaNNangalE


This song is sung by Yesudas ,lyrics by gangai amaran , music by illayaraja in the movie Eera Vizhi Kaaviyangal released in 1982.

The joy of me not knowing this song even though I knew illayaraja many many songs close to 4 plus decades is what I am sharing in words . I am assuming atleast 99% of you donot know yet this song and you are all like me . I hope you will have the same feel of discovering this song of illayaraja and the joy you get as you click and listen to the below link.

http://bit.ly/2VBIlzp

rajeshnat
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#16 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Last edited by rajeshnat on 07 Oct 2019, 13:18, edited 2 times in total.

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#17 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »


CRama
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#18 Re: Illayaraja

Post by CRama »

An unforgettable moment. Thanks Rajesh.

rajeshnat
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#19 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

In 1986 there was this movie in tamil titled Amman Kovil kizhakAlE . The time and era in my life then at that time for sure Carnatic Music and my gumbOlOda Paatu vadyar class was not taking off and i was hitting a tailspin then. But those days isaignani illaraja was at his peak. There was many songs all super hits in the movie . One song was chinna mani kuzhilE sung as solo by Sripathi Panditaradhyula Balasubrahmanyam (SPB). No big deal so far with this information .

But a year back my friend in US said to me Rajesh " Have you heard the telugu remake of the song Chinna mani kuyilE". I said " No -i have not heard". He then said "You should hear that for the complete overhaul of interludes especially percussion" . Here is what i discovered

# The song in telugu was chalti ka Naam Gaadi (telugu song with the famous Hindi line that has a hindi kishore kumar connection). Raja sir makes a change instead of SPB solo in tamil , he makes SPB and KS Chitra sing the telugu song as a duet. The interludes are completely revamped to the situation , percussion drives melody in this telugu song.

# In This song composed in keeravani ragam, the melody of telugu lines is retained and just preserved as in tamil. But hear the genius strokes of illayaraja. The song in telugu involves the first half where a old car is sent to a mechanic shop .Hear the whole rthymn section the song has lathe sounds, Jack stands , the tires are tossed , welding is happening - all these sounds are meaningly given as a clear percussion pearls to retain the melody and flow of the keeravanish song

#Just pay attention to the lovely melody of Raja in the first interlude , the whole rhythmn is all based on auto repair shop sounds. Pay attention especially from 01:14th minute the first interlude is brilliant.

# In the second stanza ,The old car is repaired the two stars drive their chalti ka naam gaadi and then after few seconds they suddenly discover a road construction which starts at the beginning of the second stanza. All the interludes of second stanza move away from mechanic to road repair. There is jalli , breaking stones, tar road etc. Another rhythmmic riot and superb 2nd stanza riot

# Illayaraja has explored the length and breadth of the ragam keeravani. This song chinna mani kuyilE or Chalthi ka naam gaadi is in ragam keervani . Keeravani was retained in rasa , bhAva and only illayaraja can give an intense song to mechanics and road laying workers .

# check the song Chalti ka naam gaadi (telugu song) | SPB and Chitra | Illayaraja with the below url
http://bit.ly/2VlSfH9

Keeravani is a spectacular raga born and perhaps suits the most for navarathri (how is that ).Happy Saraswathi Pooja and VijayaDasmi - 2019 with this special keeravani from God Of Music.

rajeshnat
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#20 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Day 13/21 update with God of Music Illayaraja in Mind:
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#1# My moms younger cousin yesterday had his paternal grandson in AnnaNagar. My Appa's younger cousin also had his maternal grandson in chromepet. Two kids born making history in corona lockdown. Each of them can we call Apoorva saghodarargal have so much to say to the world as we march on. Both Moms are doing fine. They are safe

#2# At the same time one of my college friend in college is being asked by his daughter .Daughter is asking her appa Please buy me an elephant as a pet

#3# The God of Music Illayaraja was asked by Kamalhassan then in 1989 a song that mimics partly naan parthathilE ,an MGR movie song . Illayaraja did not copy but was just inspired and created Pudhu maapillaikku from naan parthathilE

#4# THe song Pudhu Maapillaikku has sufficient contours with heavy jazz influence . THe interludes were heavenly with rhythmn all along with the chords and guitar really driving it from the front.

#5# All the musical droppings were significantly mimicking the sounds of animals in zoo with heavy usage of trumphet too. THere is a lot of indian chandam like metering which is found in lot of carnatic songs with such rhythmmic tightness

#6# THe god of music uses God of Melody SPB to sing this heavenly song .What a joy SPB brings. SPB is pairing with his apoorva sahodari SP Shailaja. Ace writer vaali is lyricist with heavenly humming interludes by male artists (usually it is mostly female artist who hum for most illayaraja songs). The song also has hindi and telugu versions.

#7# Hopefully when these two corona kids have their marriage 27 years form now on 2047, 100 years after independence , they will see this message and play this song for their wedding reception. Illaryaraja stands relevant for sure even then/ Illayaraja is the yet to be FDA approved Corona Virus Vaccine.

BaaparE baapaparE ....Pudhu maapilaikku |SPB and SPShylaja | Illayaraja | Apoorva Sagodharargal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11wE3RISKzQ

Edited to add Hindi Song
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#8# SPB is singing Woh ta Bana Aapna pairing with Asha bHonsale , the hindi song . 100 Crore Hindi speaking do not yet know about Illayaraja- God Of Music. Only person in the world who can teach me(Rajesh) Hindi is SPB, the Hindi song recording voice is even sharper and nice which I just heard it . Most of the people outside South INdia are thinking that Illayaraja is a south indian musician , just like Muttuswami Dikshitar krithis are south indian carnatic music.Fight that with this post

BaaparE baapaparE .... Woh To Bana Apna | SPB and Asha Bhonsale | Illayaraja | Appu Raja
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzPr5XbGANg
Last edited by rajeshnat on 07 Apr 2020, 18:08, edited 5 times in total.

rajeshnat
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#21 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Small Correction I forgot to add before:
THe last 2 lines with the addition of THe HIndi Song link of SPB-Ashabhonsale singing IllayaRaja song in Hindi. Alsa added some thing more around 17:55 PM IST since morning .

Fight Ignorance that Illayaraja is a south indian musician, Take the below link and share it outside world. Let us also bring new readership and in turn more people writing here in rasikas.org

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&p=361817#p361817

rajeshnat
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#22 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Day 16/21-April 09th,2020 update with God of Music Illayaraja in Mind:
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#1# THe God of Music Illayaraja was once asked why he has given so many chances to S Janaki . He said It is just "merit" no other reason. What can one say with the Goddess of Musical Expresssions - S Janaki

#2# THere is a lovely song in 1981 where S Janaki amma with her expressive voice sings with such special feel . The song is vazhi mEL vizhiyAi. This particular song Illayaraja has kept it intensely carnatic and has tuned it in ragam pantuvarali

#3# I (rajesh) am conjecturing that Illayaraja must have inspired with two heavenly songs/movie that were popular then at that time

#3A# Actress Rajalakshmi singing few songs in film shankarabharanam tuned by KV Mahadevan

#3B# There was ezhu swarangulukku in film apoorva ragangal sung by Vani Jayaram tuned by MSV in pantuvarali

#3C# I am conjecturing at the same time 1981 IR also created special violin magic with VS Narasimhan . VS Narasimhan is the ace violinist in the film raaaja parvai movie in the same ragam pantuvarali, you may recollect the opening shots where there is violin tracks in that famous movie.

#4# Anyway let us get back to IR song vazhimel vizhiyAi from the not that known movie archanai pookal. Hear the opening cue interlude , the drops of flute and possibly jalatarangam mixes with some very expressive rhythmn .This is very intensely carnatic muse with pantuvarali right there.

#5# S janaki comes with heaviness of her voice which has striking omniprescent melody. In the pallavi line of vazhimel for a key phrase varuvAi MA MugilE . IR gives contrast with a "fade in flute" and immediately follows with a "sitar/veena fade" i the same line varuvAi mA MugilE

#6# In the first interlude with guitar strumming, the plot thickens with possibly violin /keyboard flanger . I came to know about Flanger from Tesla ganesh (authority in IR appreciation, check his name in youtube).Flanger is feeding the output of musical instruments with a delay and then when fed to amplifier it gives a "new" sound.With flanger feed with a new sound ,jalatarangam flash happens prior to start of first charnam

#7# S Janaki starts with Oru naadam kai koodam , her voice absolutely traverses all along with the charanam with some key phrase "alankaram arangerum" just musical expresssions at its best, steadiness in voice is always there

#8# In second charanam interlude , the shenai takes over with the pantuvarali still very much there . A musical coupe of keyboard/guitar and flute takes over as a crest and trough thing .

#9# THe second charanam is just the same as first charanam , but some lines like "bhava ragam taalam bhavam unDAgida". Goosebump thamizh line explaining concisely the creation.Kudos to vaali

#10# THe final sixer is S janaki ending with her musical expression the pallavi line where without distorting the rhythm she adds alankaram and slight gamakam in pantuvarali . Just hear the final closure with the same vazhi meL.... vizhi...yA....i mA.... mugilE. Only S janaki amma can do this

VazhimEl vizhiyAi | S janaki | Illayaraja | Vaali | 1981 | Pantuvarali

Read it once more and hear with a right bluetooth speaker , opening lines are vital

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI60Db88KI


===============
Please share the below link to outside world . WE will cash in Illayraja to bring more readership and from there more writers to rasikas.org

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&p=361926#p361926

rajeshnat
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#23 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Day 21/40-April 14th,2020 Thamizh Newyear update with God of Music Illayaraja in Mind:
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#1# The Day April 14th is THamizh Puttaandu . To appreciate art particularly Music is easy , but to appreciate the words , it takes age and time . Illayaraja and Lyricist Pulavar Pulamaipittan have done a fanta fabulous job

#2# Thamizh is a very expressive language for every feeling there is an unique word to express that feel is what one carnatic musician told me once. How true it is with this song . THe song is beautifully sung by P Susheela and Uma Ramanan.

#3# Illayraja creates a musical coup .The cast is about a young boy and younger girl perhaps learning music from a thamizh isai vellalAr family.

#3A# Susheela takes the young boy voice and starts the song with swaras SA, Ri, gA and then build up finally as sa ri sa ri ga pa ga ri and with every phrase Uma Ramanan repeats . Repetition enforces musical and muse stickiness

#3B# There is an elderly person in a male voice (can some one tell me who is that male voice) where he corrects the younger girl to sing . He corrects briefly and does not intrude leaving it to Susheela and UmaRamanan,

#3C# THe musical interludes are all based on nagaswaram and or shenai . What brigas and polish and sharpness of muse that nAgaswaram family brings . Nagaswaram and its associated instruments , isai vellalars and temples are the custodians of thamizh isai.How apt that god of music took the nagaswaram. For special effects slight strumming of guitar/Keyboard and flute musical stop gap sangathis add charm with superb rhythmn from the omnipresent tabla .

#3D# THe first stanza begins as thEnoorum tevAram isai PAttin Adaram and then goose bump line thamizh isaiyE tharaniyILE mudhal isaiyE .Both Psusheela and Uma Ramanan are rocking

#3E# Extraordinary second interlude comes in with little force in nagaswaram and another lovely flute/keyboard / guitar assisting it

#3F# Thamizh is a tricky language some lines are dead easy some lines are tough . THis point is particularly apt to me (rajesh)who struggled to even pass thamizh as second language in school. See the easy line Ponnala poovalla Porullalla selvamgal but it is the difficult line kalai palarum ... arivu valam perumai tharum. Then ending with thamizhe nee paadu , i am assuming pulavar pulamaipitthan hits a sixer with that metaphor line, he promotes the languate thamizh itself as isai.

#3G# I have a school friend Sriram Srinivasan who is from Irvine, California sings beautifully like spb and he is a super illayaraja paithiyam . He told me an interesting snippet . He said this song parents or elderly family members can sing and little kids can repeat. THe next gen can get the wealth and beauty of thamizh and music.

#3H#. This point 3H is added by my school friend Sivasubramanian from singapore.THe ragam is RasikaRanjani which is pentatonic 5 note raga and the scales are similiar to western music. He says interestingly as follows

G is the Dominant Key and is “Pa” or Panchamam and A is the Submediant Key and is “Da” or Daivatham in Carnatic music.
Observe how the music lands on a Panchamam when பா is sung and on a Daivatham when தா is sung in the lines below and yet has perfect meaning in the lyrics as well. A great teamwork by the lyricist and the music composer.

சுகம் பல தரும் தமிழ் பா (Panchamam)
சுவையோடு கவிதைகள் தா (Daivatham)

None of the musical or lyrical ideas in any song is by accident. It all starts with an artist really thinking and striving to create it.

#4#. Ragam is RasikaRanjani , hardly any songs in carnatic music. My generation had God of Music Illayaraja. Even though i did not understand then ,perhaps just enjoying the music part partly. Decades back i heard this music which i even forgot.But right now one feels how language , culture and tradition are the primary vehicles that gives the underlying supreme music.

AmuthE thamizhE | P Susheela and Uma Ramanan | Illayaraja | Pulamaiipittan | Koyil Pura | 1981 | Rasikaranjani

Read it once more and hear with a right bluetooth speaker , thamizh lyrics are vital.

The first link has visual movie of the 4 min song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQDC9XkSUZk

and the second song has the opening cue along with the song which is heavenly, all 4 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzoB_eI3Dko

===============
Please share the below link to outside world . WE will cash in God Of Music Illayaraja to bring more readership and from there more writers to rasikas.org
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&p=362161#p362161
Last edited by rajeshnat on 15 Apr 2020, 18:51, edited 2 times in total.

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#24 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

#3G# and #3H# I added now in above post , 3H is added by my friend siva who learns western music and piano. 3G is my dear friend sriram both are not that much into CM. I liked the way they appreciated god of music. We all grew up listening only to IR - God of music.

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#25 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

rajeshnat wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 13:17
Observe how the music lands on a Panchamam when பா is sung and on a Daivatham when தா is sung in the lines below and yet has perfect meaning in the lyrics as well. A great teamwork by the lyricist and the music composer.

சுகம் பல தரும் தமிழ் பா (Panchamam)
சுவையோடு கவிதைகள் தா (Daivatham)
It’s nice, but not new, just saying. There must be many film songs with these swaraksharas. One that comes to mind Is Mannavan Vanthaanadi which has lines for the whole scale running up and down.

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#26 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Day 24/40-April 17th,2020 update with God of Music Illayaraja in Mind:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the advent of youtube , more community participation ensures much higher extraordinary remastered audio quality reaching each of us. There is this snippet song Vaanam Thottu Ponaa and VettaruvA thAngi, hear the below recording, absolutely stunning audio quality

I get goosebumps when God Of Music(Illayaraja) is left all alone with God of Melody(SPB) with kavignar vaali penning lyrics to ensure words are chiseled without loss of music. Both the small snippet of songs are coming in quick succession with extraordinary humming done by unknown Team . Recording is just less than 5 mins. There is already a miniature yet complete Mozart And Beethoven Symphony Orchestras in these two successive songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do5DcUURyRI

Vaanam Thottu Or VettaruvA thAngi | SPB | Great Unknown Humming Angels| Vaali | Illayaraja | Thevar Magan | 1992

p.s:
---
In general when you search for a song , dont just go to top links . Mostly they are all legacy,the audio quality is not the best . Nowadays in last few years more folks remaster and give absolutely stunning better audio quality . I have in my mind few great youtube upload ids . They are maha2014, balpalaki, Kadar Majee and in this case the id is THe Mastering Project. All these ids you may have to scroll a bit to get their links , but they are worth it. Million Tx to these great folks who upload post their remastering.

- Rajesh
========================================================
Please share the below link to outside world inclusive of FB and twitter. We will cash in God Of Music Illayaraja to bring more readership and from there more writers to rasikas.org

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&start=25#p362216

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#27 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Illayaraja - India's Ratna with exclusive Hindi song that did not have other avatars - Day 29/40, April 22nd 2020 Update
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There has been usually opinions that happen with Illayaraja versus in general comparisons with other music directors . The Other Music Directors can be usually the Hindi film based music directors and at times even say other music directors in tamil industry who preceded Illayaraja like MSV, KV Mahadevan etc and few more who came into the field after Illayaraja.

There may be say few dozen songs that were dubbed/ readapted from Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam/Kannada world to hindi movies .There are also pilferage copies where many music directors have lifted the tune verbatim. But there is one illustrious and unique song of Illayaraja . What is unique about that song.

This song "KaisE Kahoon kuch kahna sakhoon" was only tuned as a Hindi song in a tamil movie Nandu. The Hindi song was never adapted from/to any South Indian languages and remained as a stand alone Hindi song.

It is dead easy for any one in North India to aurally look and hear holistically Illayaraja creations and register the 7 absolute facts:

#1# Orchestration and concept of rich interludes between stanzas is prominent only in Illayaraja songs . IN most Hindi songs it is usually not there at all, it is just a plain placeholder before pallavi moves to stanza.

#2# Rhthymn and tala variations of instruments in hindi is practically near zero

#3# Generally higher sense of shruthi with far higher quality of singers like SPB/Yesudas/S Janaki/Chitra vs kumarsAnu/UditNarayan/TM Sounderrajan.

#4# With Illayaraja, songs are multi dimensional vs in general hindi song like say eK ladki kO which are monolithic and goes in endless loop.

#5# Usage of natural instruments which gives jiva vs lifeless rythmn pads which was even there from 1970s in hindi music. This disease is also there in many tamil music directors post IR era which is sad.

#6# Range and variety of Humming , juxtaposition of counter and harmonics to enhance the quality of songs is a pure Illayaraja typecast.

#7# Above all quality of basic tunes(mettu in tamil) due to depth of musicians capability like IR is statistically higher . Though you can have few songs in Hindi which are comparable quality but there is no major impetus of collaboration , mostly stays with only vocalist singers.

Ofcourse the above 7 points is typically known to significant South Indian domiciled Indians and those who grew up with Illayaraja in 70's to 2000's . An average North Indian who speaks Hindi and other languages other than Hindi does not know the above 7 absolute truth elements. He /She may not genuinely know Illayaraja greatness or in few cases just dismiss it . The reason is pureplay unfamiliarity and ignorance.

Let us take the hindi song KaisE Kahoon kuch kahna sakhoon. You can aurally spot all 7 points. They are the same #1 to #7 namely:

Orchestration and interlude before stanzas,rhythm tala variations, Higher sense of shruthi with singers in this case Bhupinder Singh and heavenly S Janaki Ji who sings brilliantly Hindi with great feel. ALso you can spot usage of natural instruments , varied hummming , tunes are multidimensional .

The lyricist of this hindi song is veteran singer PB Srinivas .The late legendary director J Mahendran made it possible to incorporate the Hindi song in a thamizh movie Nandu in 1981.

I wish Illayaraja had little more time in 1980s to 1990s to tune more hindi songs , but he always was over booked by south indian film industry. Best wishes for the 100 crore North indians to know what 30 crore South INdians know.

Hopefully God Of Music soon gets Bharat Ratna. If IllayaRaja does not get Bharat Ratna who else can get it.

Send this to every North Indian friend to state with conviction the facts of Illayaraja music. They have to move out of cheeni kum songs of Illayaraja which is what they are familiar.

Let the North Indian bhai and behans hear their first exclusive first Hindi song of Illayaraja KaisE Kahoon and use it as a "Gateway of Illayaraja" from their more familiar Gateway of Bollywood land. Then in turn listen to other great 5000 plus songs of God Of Music - Illayaraja . The rest of the songs only had a south indian language shell but a much much deeper universal muscial avatar with atleast 7 salient points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGHBYFz_3A

KaisE Kahoon kuch kahna sakhoon | Bhupinder Singh and S Janaki | PB Sreenivas | Illayaraja | Nandu(Movie Name) | 1981

- Rajesh dated April 22nd,2020



==================Snippet tobe shared to Facebook ,WhatsApp and Social Media ====================
The 40 Crore South Indian Diaspora whereever they are in the world somewhat get Illayaraja. The remaining 100 Crore North Indian population donot get Illayaraja. Personally wrote 7 salient points of Ilayaraja vs Other Film Musicians of India.Certainly IR is our Bharat Ratna , let this link and writeup go viral

Pass it along
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&p=362344#p362344

-Rajesh , dated April 22nd , 2020.

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#28 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

rajeshnat wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 18:31 Where can we place this isaignani illayaraja something much more than vidwan and vidushi but let me take him as vaggeyakkara as after sadguru Thyagaraja , dikshitar and there is illayaraja. ... ...
Can someone please provide the list of kritis in standard format created by Ilaiyaraaja that are suitable for Carnatic Music concerts ?

Also, the links, if any, to the such kritis rendered at Carnatic Music platforms ?

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#29 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

How about we all conditioning to actual absolute music where illayaraja music is superimposed for an english movie Amadeus based on Mozart where Illayaraja's original thevar magan Background is inserted. Incidentally Illayaraja said this movie amadeus is his favourite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y9smFvCK6Q

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#30 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

oh, no, no!

This is so not nice! What’s this idea of a “vs?” Whats this notion of comparing everyone to Mozart? It smacks so much of ego and ignorance! Whoever wrote this “vs” just assumes that Mozart is one of the greats - because they’ve heard that, and have no clue about what makes him so greatly admired!

This music just cannot be compared to the original music of the scene. This music is eerie and coarse, the voices are so ordinary! The overall effect is so overbearing! I’m hoping that if you had watched the original you wouldn’t have thought you should post this! The original is delicate, and then seems to rise to reflect tragedy without losing sensitivity.

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#31 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

Here’s a piece of music by Mozart.. it’s almost chosen randomly, because there isn’t a piece of Mozart’s that I don’t love. But I do like his horn concertos.

https://youtu.be/xzCiVyWx-Tk

These are very big shoes to fill! We can’t just bandy his name about!

Some composers borrow from the world of western music. They do create new InDian music, but they are still consumers of the music - at a higher level than just people like us.

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#32 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

rajeshnat wrote: 24 Apr 2020, 13:03 How about we all conditioning to actual absolute music (...)
And what does this mean?

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#33 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Ranganayaki,
For the last 5 plus years wanted to see the movie amadeus, very recently Illayaraja told he was so moved with this movie and the score and acting of one of the actors HE said this movie is his favourite and he watched it many times. I am yet to watch amadeus , very interested that too with the recommendation from God Of Music.

Personally i thought the chorus of different voices (which you said the voices are ordinary) blend blend with right contrast and just tied so well with the orchestration. I particularly liked the imagery of death caskets and this tune of Thevar Magan superbly blended which to you was overbearing , We have to surely disagree and move on.

THe tune of this Kollywood thevar magan did suit well for a hollywood movie amadeus . That is absolute to me , where I mean absolute as something that exists independently and did have a stirring impact for me.If you disagree on the usage of absolute keyword you can substitute better appropriate word .

In any case if you donot like this interlude that go that well atleast hear the SPB part where he also sings the few snippet of songs (Vaanam thottu or Vettaruva). Good luck on you liking SPB with those snippets . I also knew that Amadeus also get an oscar for sound mixing. I rest amadeus case here and I look forward to see that movie.

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#34 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Ranganayaki,
If you have time also read the next KaisE Kahoon kuch kahna sakhoon and continue to write your impressions . Advance Thanks.

I am intending to make my next post on next song of Illayaraja. Already typed but let us have some spacing .

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#35 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

rajeshnat wrote: 25 Apr 2020, 21:04 Ranganayaki,
For the last 5 plus years wanted to see the movie amadeus, very recently Illayaraja told he was so moved with this movie and the score and acting of one of the actors HE said this movie is his favourite and he watched it many times.
Yes, I’ve heard that Lalgudi Jayaraman also loved it. Any music lover would. It was in the days of video cassettes. I had mine, and I’ve watched it many many times.

Much of the score is Mozart’s own, that’s why it did not win an Oscar for the score.

You have responded to me without seeing the original music. So I understand how it sounded perfect to you - a death scene, deathly music.. so it is not in an absolute sense that I say I didn’t like it. But saying “vs Mozart” bothers me. You should watch the movie and listen to the music of the movie (composed by Mozart, it was his last, unfinished work) and then tell me how you feel. Then we can disagree and move on. Don’t let me just offend you chumma. May be you will understand, in comparison, why I said “overbearing.”

This substitution music is probably very nice in Vedam Puthithu. I remember it, but not the scene, so I’m not commenting more. But it cannot compare with the score of the movie scene in Amadeus.

And in principle a cliched comparison with Mozart just cheapens both Mozart and the person being compared. We all know how talented a certain musician is, but he refers to himself as the Mozart of India (he uses the quote)!! It’s like saying, they say I’m the great apple of oranges! It is meaningless. The similarity begins and ends with their both being considered child prodigies. He should just have been himself (musically I mean)😡.

I particularly liked the imagery of death caskets and this tune of Thevar Magan superbly blended which to you was overbearing , We have to surely disagree and move on.
Yes, I understand that it sounds nice to you. It is extra deathly too in this substitution video. But it is a comparison with the original. You have looked at only one side of the comparison!
THe tune of this Kollywood thevar magan did suit well for a hollywood movie amadeus . That is absolute to me , where I mean absolute as something that exists independently and did have a stirring impact for me.If you disagree on the usage of absolute keyword you can substitute better appropriate word .
I’m beginning to understand what you mean by absolute, i just used it too like that above.
In any case if you donot like this interlude that go that well atleast hear the SPB part where he also sings the few snippet of songs (Vaanam thottu or Vettaruva). Good luck on you liking SPB with those snippets . I also knew that Amadeus also get an oscar for sound mixing. I rest amadeus case here and I look forward to see that movie.
Because you are making this comparison, I offered you a piece of Mozart to listen to, so you understand something of the greatness. You have not said anything about it!

I’m challenging you not to love it 🙂🙂! You want me to listen to so many pieces, you try this one 🙂.

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#36 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Illayaraja - Oru Kiliyin ThanimayilE - Day 34/40, April 26th 2020 Update with God of Music Illayaraja creation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Illayaraja has certainly blended beautifully with just not SPB and S Janaki . He has done many gems with KJ Yesudas and KS Chitra .God of Music understands chorus with such musical sensitivity where he gives a range of natural growing adolescent voices where the chorus blends with masterly main singers. With rich orchestration it is indeed a musical masterpiece.

This song "Oru Kiliyin ThanimayilE" was sung by Yesudas and Chitra. The movie is Poovizhi VasalilE , certainly for many like me then in mid 1980s ,the movie along with music had very deep impressions. Atleast to me as a madras boy ,the flavour of malayalam movies and the music was indeed injected to me in atleast significant doses with this movie and songs of this movie. THis movie was a remake of a malayalam movie directed by Fazil ,the famous malayalam director.

Moving On what matters is music and only Music

#1# The opening cue is extraordinary . Illayaraja sir takes a chirp of natural Parrot as a start and then continues with a flight of musical fantasy . The aural fantasy starts with Piano/Keyboard opening and a cute little kyu(I just dont know that instrument , I am assuming that came from the Piano/Keyboard of illayaraja extraordinary keyboard artist Viji Manuel). The opening interlude moves on to a great string section with violin dominating the course. I am assuming the violinist there could be vs narasimhan, ramasubramaniam, kalyan, prabhakaran and many more .There is a shade of extraordinary stop gap of flute just joining here and there. The opening itself ensures that you are in for an excitement.

#2# The gAndharva Voice , Oh i should say God of Masculine Heaviness is KJ Yesudas is right there at the start .Yesudas begins with his extreme baritoned voice where he starts with the line - Oru Kiliyin ThanimayiLE with steady female chorus uravu uravu with extreme melodic assertion.

#3# The first interlude is heavenly. That minimal kyu which is minimal in the opening cue takes a bigger KYU take off with an extremely shadowy lead guitar . I am assuming that the guitar is by lead guitarist Sadanandam Sudharshanam . The guitar chords are heavenly.The contrast for the heroin to have guitar chords and for the hero to have violin interludes is aurally rich and arresting.

#4# Oh what a voice what can I say Goddesss of Voice Power with classicism is indeed Chitra's grand entry in stanza 1 . Chitra magically starts with direct punch with voice power in lines Muttu Rathinam Unakku Chooda . The whole charanam is completely with Chitra and even the follow up is strictly chitra and feminine voices appearing from a girls school chorus.

#5# THe missiing flute comes in heavily in interlude 2. I am assuming the flutist Sudhakar And/Or Napolean (ArunMozhi) plays the flute .THe gAndharva kural Yesudas comes in with his second stanza with his words Kattalai padi KiDaitha vEdham. Incidentally the stanza 2 has both Yesudas and Chitra singing one line after another, great sense of musical camraderie there.

#6# The rhythmn section is simply extraordinary the pallavi was with drums ,the stanzas is more tabla. There are few of his special effect rhythmmic instruments in interludes but all simply fantastic. I am assuming the drums is by Purushottaman the stock drummer of Illayaraja.THe tabla I am assuming is played by kanniah and/or prasad.

#7# The beauty of the whole song is actually Hummming .Hear each of the contextual aural layering of Humming. Panniapurathu Maharaja is a hummming WOW raaza

#7A# Illayaraja uses different shades of humming , young boys school voice texture for hero side chorus. Especially hear the aaa aaa counter of boys in the yesudas line vizhigalilE kanavu mEthandu vara , such beautiful Lead Voice-Humming voice intersect

#7B# In stanzas ,in lines like inimai thavazha , the voice texture is that of school girls texture . The young voices just go along with chitras and they looping with uravu uravu and the last bit of charanam back to pallavi is very aesthetic. There is a great sense of melody and rhythmn from these hummers.

#7C# In second interlude the texture of humming voice changes from school girls with a bit more senior female voices with their la la la la .... la lA humming being spectacular . For this voice humming, there is extremely high usage of bass guitar .I am assuming that bass guitar snippet was played by sasitharan .Sashitharan happens to be self taught brother in law of Illayaraja.In second stanza ,voice texture of hummers is more heavier and senior to perhaps suit a different cast of supporting cast.All these contextual magic of voice texture of different youth and adolescents in humming can only be done by God Of Music.

#7D# The song ends with boys who usually have a female texture voice at that middle school age .These boys usually in their adolescence, their voice is atleast half female and the texture remains so . THe boys in chorus do very well where The boys chorus ends with the repeated charanam lines of oru kiliyiN . For a change school boys fare better than school girls(musically yes , academically i donot know :lol: ) in the last part of the song closure.

Isaignani Illayaraja pays attention even to the excellence of humming .No vocalist or instrumentalist is a pushover when God Of Music composes songs .Surprisingly the less trained and definitely unknown hummers do give their excellence as much as yesudas and chitra who give such power and emote to the song.

Hear the song with quality headphones or bluetooth speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmVrmOp ... mVrmOpLY_g

Oru kiliyiN thanimayilE | KJ Yesudas and KS Chitra | Unknown Humming and Chorus Angels| Gangaiamaran Or Muthulingam or Illayaraja or kamakodiyan(dont know who is the lyricist for this song, i only found the list of lyricists for this movie)| Illayaraja | Poovizhi vaasalilE | 1986

- Rajesh dated April 26th,2020 - Day 34 of 40

p.s One of my friend/accquintance who read the series of previous post asked me to relay the following . He/She says please ask each reader to read it twice with pauses and then hear the song.

========================================================
Please share the below link to outside world inclusive of Facebook and twitter. We will cash in God Of Music Illayaraja to bring more readership and from there more writers to rasikas.org.

Illayaraja with team of young kids in chorus with Kj Yesudas and Chitra just rock with this song Oru Kiliyil ThanimayilE with extraordinary orchestration

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32009&p=362449#p362449

- Rajesh dated April 26th,2020 - Day 34 of 40

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#37 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 24 Apr 2020, 06:44
rajeshnat wrote: 18 Oct 2018, 18:31 Where can we place this isaignani illayaraja something much more than vidwan and vidushi but let me take him as vaggeyakkara as after sadguru Thyagaraja , dikshitar and there is illayaraja. ... ...
Can someone please provide the list of kritis in standard format created by Ilaiyaraaja that are suitable for Carnatic Music concerts ?

Also, the links, if any, to the such kritis rendered at Carnatic Music platforms ?

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#38 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

.
It seems Ilaiyaraaja has not created any CM kriti !

Then, how come he is touted as the only “Vakgeyakara after sadguru Thyagaraja, dikshitar” -- discounting, and ridiculing in the process, all great Vakgeyakaras? The premise is faulty, and the attempt to brand him as the greatest Vakgeyakara is brazenly misleading.

There is no denying that Ilaiyaraaja is one of the greatest Light Music Composers.

But this thread on him is a misfit under ‘Vakgeyakara’ section. The right place would be ‘Light Classical’. There one can discuss and admire his contributions.


Mods:
You may consider moving this thread to ‘Light Classical’ section.

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#39 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Ranganayaki wrote: 25 Apr 2020, 22:34 https://youtu.be/xzCiVyWx-Tk

Because you are making this comparison, I offered you a piece of Mozart to listen to, so you understand something of the greatness. You have not said anything about it!

I’m challenging you not to love it 🙂🙂! You want me to listen to so many pieces, you try this one 🙂.
Ranganayaki
My next post is remarks on this mozart piece . Few days later i will continue atleast with few more illayaraja till the lock down is there . I already typed one but i will space it after few days. You may or may not put anothermozart link , distract illayaraja with mozart and definitely not ask my comments as i am not that qualified :D . The title that was in youtube where that amadeus movie was not put by me , :P 8-)

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#40 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Mozart - Horn Concerto
--------------------------

Upto 1st Minute :
----------------
First one minute the excitement indeed settled well within me . Looks all the string instruments are in play. Apart from violin and viola, there is definitely cello and/or double bass .

From 1st to 4th Minute:
-----------------------
Around 1:05 th min Horn comes in very distinctly. Atleast i am not accustomed to this Horn instrument that much . THere is a dialogue at last between Horn and Stringed instrument .There is orchestration definitely there between say captain violin and Horn . One hears lot of distinct sounds ,the fade and drop of Horn appears quite heavenly and the quick swiftness of this king of all instruments the maharaja violin were just superb

From 5th Minute to 6:20 Minute:
------------------------------
Felt lot of repetition . Or I can say it was one of those Hindustani typecasts where i am awaiting for the plot to get unvieled (I am missing my God Of Music Illayaraja here) . Ofcourse one can say even Carnatic has repetition of pallavi sangathis, but in the absence of no percussion , the repetition or incremental addition of sangathis in this concerto does not appeal that much to me.

From 06:21st to : 09:45
------------------------
Landscape changes perhaps MD Ramanathan is coming in after semmangudi and his sishyas exits out with violin.Semmangudi Cheenu(violinist) has taken all the electric sangathis with him and left MDR high and dry(Horn). Horn is getting sensitive, at times i am feeling hey violin please give more space only to Horn . The blow is bit more serene like a bansuri flute blow taken by a carnatic flute who decides to play C major based scale in Western Music. Suddenly feeling the ulta feeling .O Horn why dont you grab some more support from violin .Atleast with my thought telepathically mozart heard it .The violin and all string instrument comes in the aural landscape changes but it is still not that great

From 09:45th minute till the end:
---------------------------------
THe Horn wakes up suddenly and there is more variety and dynamics of rhythm that is happening. At this exact time 09:45 th minute it appears a brand new composition or a new charanam is added to a well set composition This is musically very difffernt from what was played before . Horn is beautifully getting supplemented with more clearer accentuation from violin which is in line with the blow of Horn. Did i hear a metallic flute some where on 11th to 12th minute. My mind is racing at 12:03rd min, where i feel i have heard those snippets somewhere some time in school . They appeared famous and known to me atleast from 12:00 to 12:10 . Then the closure sangathis hit me and mozart closed it .

Key takeaways for me is perhaps only one thing .
------------------------------------------------
I am finding very difficult to disambiguate stringed instrument sounds. For eg cello vs double bass and say violin vs viola is not aurally distinct to me. I can say for sure without violin there is absolutely no western music and absolutely there is also no carnatic music .

Violin is the staple of classicism continuity

Mozart - Horn Concerto link that is talked up is in the below link
https://youtu.be/xzCiVyWx-Tk

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#41 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

rajeshnat wrote: 28 Apr 2020, 14:28 [You may or may not put anothermozart link , distract illayaraja with mozart and definitely not ask my comments as i am not that qualified :D . The title that was in youtube where that amadeus movie was not put by me , :P 8-)
Distract? That’s not a friendly thing to say! I am not in the business of hijacking threads.

I wasn’t going to post more links. If I wanted to I would start a new thread called Mozart.

I didn’t ask you and I would not ask you for your comments. I wanted to know your response to the music. Simply, did you like it, love it, or was it “bleh?” May be a little expansion.

I think everyone here even re. Carnatic music is only discussing their responses. I certainly. We have a few musicians in our midst, and other than them I don’t know who can claim to be qualified. But we write tons and it is welcome.

I wasn’t expecting that review though. I simply wanted to know if you actually listened and if you liked it and may be a little detail on why.. It is not interesting to anyone here to read so much detail on an unfamiliar piece of music! Most of us here have not ever heard it! I mean, in challenging you not to love it, I didn’t mean to make you write so much detail about the instruments!

Btw, I just thought of specifying that the word “concerto” does not mean concert, it is the name for a musical form. A type of musical piece.

The variations are not in the spirit of sangatis, but rather expansions on the theme.

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#42 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Ranganayaki »

rajeshnat wrote: 28 Apr 2020, 14:28 [You may or may not put anothermozart link , distract illayaraja with mozart and definitely not ask my comments as i am not that qualified :D . The title that was in youtube where that amadeus movie was not put by me , :P 8-)
Distract? That’s not a friendly thing to say! I am not in the business of hijacking threads.

I wasn’t going to post more links. If I wanted to I would start a new thread called Mozart.

I didn’t ask you and I would not ask you for your comments. I wanted to know your response to the music. Simply, did you like it, love it, or was it “bleh?” May be a little expansion on that.

I think everyone here even re. Carnatic music is only discussing their responses. I certainly. We have a few musicians in our midst, and other than them I don’t know who can claim to be qualified. But we write tons and it is welcome.

I wasn’t expecting that review though. I simply wanted to know if you actually listened and if you liked it and may be a little detail on why.. It is not interesting to anyone here to read so much detail on an unfamiliar piece of music! Most of us here have not ever heard it! I mean, in challenging you not to love it, I didn’t mean to make you write so much detail about the instruments!

Btw, I just thought of specifying that the word “concerto” does not mean concert, it is the name for a musical form. A type of musical piece.

The variations are not in the spirit of sangatis, but rather expansions on the theme.

rajeshnat
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#43 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Overall I liked it. But as indicated some pockets were not that interesting. I am assuming that you should have bit more basic training especially in stringed instruments to understand aural nuances where I fail.

On a most interesting revealing note which I forgot to mention before is the instrument horn. I have seen in few school bands and scout bands where some one plays horn. I thought it was just a very minor instrument not capable of much impact. Mozart giving so much of musical flair for a horn is my biggest discovery.

May be in future I will try to.post illayaraja with some trumphet family instruments handling as one post. I am assuming somewhere some time horn may have been used by Illayaraja.

On the distraction part looks post your posting i have miscommunicated that is not a right etiquette for the forum,

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#44 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Illayaraja and Kannadasan - Carnatic and Western - Musically in perfect synch , Day 36/40, April 29th 2020 Update
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isai Isaignani Illayaraja and kaviarasu kannadasan combo were working atleast 6 years together. I knew this song vaguely but got refreshed few years back. What i did not know then which i know now is what i am writing now

#1# kaviarasu kannadasan thamizh azhage azhagu .kannadasan has given lyrics with everyphrase ending in gal.Such beautiful lyrics .

#2# Illayaraja is a master of both carnatic and western music. The tune of the song is very much close to the grand carnatic raga shankarabharanam . In western music they call this is as their major scale raga.

#3# One of my friend Sivasubramanian who learns western music used to say play all the white keys and you get this scale western major scale shankarabharanam . Thank you for the tip ,I am not even sure if i have quoted absolutely right on what he said, but what illayaraja does interestingly is he majorly keeps the major scale intact and he moves in distinct places by shifting scales to give a great feel to the song . Pay attention when the singers sings “Anandha Gaanangal” (end of 1st charanam) and “Verenna Sondhangal” (end of 2nd charanam) . The song moves moves momentarily down ( from major to minor) and again steps ( from minor to major) and ends the charanams. Those hooks from charanam to pallavi is musically aesthetic that i find it so much in Illayaraja which i dont get it that much with many other music creators.

#4# Both the singers,malaysia vasudevan and s janaki have strong voices .They keep the whole song in a subtle fashion perhaps they have internalized the necessity of showcasing the great kannadasan :P lyrics and wanted to showcase the gal ending of every phrase of the song so that the music is highlighted with more bhava.

#5# Preludes of the song is heavenly.Guitar-Violin-Flute :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: are the 3 pointed weapons of mass muse of Illayaraja with surgical strikes of keyboard/Piano . The take off with a musically expressive vidushi S Janaki who has also learnt carnatic music taking off with kAlangal is lovely. The two charnams are handed over with male and female voices seperately and they both aurally polish the song

#6# The first interlude is superb with again the guitar-violin-flute coming with lovely balance without any loss of melody. All phrases ending with gal with kannadasan iis rocking with Illayaraja giving great shape with his western tonic shifts .THe dheera shankarabharanam, the melakartha #29 is very much there not just on April 29th,2020. It will be there for ages

#7# The second interlude is again great with expressive violin bit raising the shade of muse , the flute calming and the guitar just taking us through the shade of already settled muse . The rhythm section throughout the song is fantastic with tabla leading with a sprinkle of drums to tease .

Hear the song kaalangal mazhai kaalangal with quality headphones or bluetooth speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvUi6htIH7g

The kannadasan lyrics of the song in both english and tamil is in the below link.Just listen by reading the song.
https://www.tamil2lyrics.com/lyrics/kaa ... ng-lyrics/

kaalangal mazhaikaalangal | malaysia vasudevan and s janaki | kannadasan |illayaraja | Idayathil Oru Idam | 1980 🎤👆👂

- Rajesh dated April 29th,2020 - Day 36 of 40

===============
Please share the below snippet and link to outside world inclusive of Facebook and twitter. We will cash in God Of Music Illayaraja to bring more readership and from there more writers to rasikas.org.

Illayaraja and Kannadasan, Western and Carnatic Music all are intact with RagAngal sugangal in the song KAlangal mazhaikAlangal
www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=362532#p362532
- Rajesh dated April 29th,2020 - Day 36 of 40

Pratyaksham Bala
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#45 Re: Illayaraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

.
Long and wearisome posts on movie music tend to paint a different character to the Forum, which may discourage serious CM rasikas from active participation.

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#46 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 04 May 2020, 07:28 .
Long and wearisome posts on movie music tend to paint a different character to the Forum, which may discourage serious CM rasikas from active participation.
PB ,
I am assuming ths post is also culmination of a post that you made where you asked if Illayaraja is a vaggeyakkara why cannot all this move to another thread . I did not respond to that post as already that question was asked in first few posts and my reply was already done .

Let me reiterate crisply again .We are talking about People Topic. In peoples topic , there are three threads namely Vaggeyakkara, Vidwan and Vidushi & Critics and Rasika . The approximate thread that Illayaraja can fit in is vaggeyakkara, it is not perfect but with in the available areas , this fits the best.

For the record Illayaraja has composed a carnatic krithi in ragam raagavardhini , I have not heard that krithi at all . Lalgudi Jayaraman praised it and Illayaraja has also spoken in some lalgudi book release function . Few artists may have played raja krithi in carnatic concert is what i heard thru grapevine not very sure. So let us bury the relevance where these posts has to be with this clarification as I have made atleast 10 plus about the person Illayaraja .

Ofcourse this does not answer that this is creating a different character to the forum which you have asked :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the record, since i have posted few weeks back ,I had already typed atleast 2 posts like that in my personal notepad I am spacing it roughly once or twice a week . I personally have had lot of fellow forumites and others sending some texts or email communication to me liking many of the posts in private about IR . In general if you take each of the post ,i am opening with a facet of Illayaraja that 99 percent of even Illayaraja fans in any forum or web would not know of .

I personally only had a drive to post say till May 03rd on Illayaraja till lockdown ends , see how it goes after, though i still have a sufficient drive to write more about illayaraja with a rare facet with my own customized relevant comment . Now that I have typed and saved i will atleast post one more which is kind of semi carnatic and can fit well.

All said as a long term forumite who is always level headed , I personally felt you could have either let go or may be felt there is some thing deep which you could have read and understood my intent .Please remember just as you say IR music is not relevant here , I can bring 25 topics which are not even music which goes on and on where the relevance of those posts have already made many leave the forum .

Bottomline , I will post one or two and leave at that . See how my motivation to write more is there and take it or drop it from there. With no concerts to attend my time can be apportioned away from kutcheri reviews to something deep with an angle that you all may enjoy.

@srkris
You take the next step what i should do after my next post since it is already typed last week , I am putting the next post on Illayaraja and Ramanar, it is not CM, No hard feelings either way, Cheers. I am also assuming many passive readers are ok with these posts on Illayaraja and may not feel like PB.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 04 May 2020, 18:16, edited 2 times in total.

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#47 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Illayaraja and Ramana Maharishi -Deep Musical and a Deeper Spiritual connect
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Isaignai Illayaraja had a deep spiritual connect with Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi . Infact from early 1980s raja sir's life, his habits and interactions with many in film industry did have a greater spiritual angle . That inside spiritual angle produced a far greater musical output with sustained excellence that in next 100 generations may not be matched ever by any musical director will be surely a fact .

#1# Illayaraja's lifestyle being a devotee of Mookambigai , kanchi mahaswami and Ramana Maharishi did even catch up with many especially in his native state of TamilNadu.

#2# Moving on connecting with music ,Illayaraja after his copious output in films from 1980s to 2000 plus had given a great Ramanar Album titled Guru Ramanar Geetham in 2003 .His albums were too few . In 1980's he gave an album by name Geethanjali . There were also his phenomenal albums like How to Name it , Nothing but wind which was a rave for many like me then in that era . Then much later album titled Thiruvasagam had a place to show his non film angle,but this album Thiruvasagam did not musically interest me that much as his previous albums.

#3# This particular devotional album song Chinna payyan Oruvan is written , sung and composed by God Of Music . Illayaraja is a phenomenal lyricist , just hear the song with the tamil lyrics in front of you . Ramana Maharishi is traced by illayaraja .Illayaraja is perhaps wondering on life history of ramana maharishi in the pallavi . As charnam unfolds ,The events of Ramana maharishi as a young lad , his presence and settling in Tiruvannamalai , his quest for truth and finally ramanas soul being immortal where ramanar joins with the jyothi in the hills of tiruvannamalai . All these biography is lucidly captured as both lyrics and musically tuned. Music generally brings in 100 x bhakthi which gets bit short circuited when you just speak or hear

#4#I am personally not even a basic devotee of Ramana Maharishi but have some minimal insights on Ramana's teachings especially a small booklet "Who am I (Nan Yaar)" which i read it some time back . I am not even in beginning of transformation yet, but there is some deeper belief on Ramanar that is just skirting me right .When there are powerful lines that gels with great music, there is statistically more push to believe certain spiritual scriptures.

Just see my few handpicked 5 lines in each of stanzas that Illaraja Sir wrote:
கண்ணீர் கயிற்றால் கட்டிக்கொண்டான்
பூதமும் போகாத பாதாள லிங்கத்துள் போயமர்ந்தான்
முற்றும் அறிந்து முனிவனானவன் இல்லால் நம் பிறவிக்கு பயனுண்டோ?
உடம்போடு வாழ்ந்தாலும் உடம்பின்றி வாழ்ந்தவன் குரு ரமணன்
ஒளி வெள்ளமாய் மலை உச்சியில் கலந்து விட்டான் ரமணன்

#5# Keep the lyrics in front of you. Just click the link scroll below 5 stanzas tracing ramana maharishi life. Even if you do not know to read the tamil still ok,just minimally get few key words and move on.

https://amrithavarshini.proboards.com/thread/1159

#6# Then play the song .I am assuming the ragam of the song is the most omnipresent / over abused thukkada raga of Carnatic Music , the ragam is sindhu bhairavi. This song has a lot of overlap in tune with the popular song of the movie sindhu bhairavi - naan oru sindhu kavadi chindu which got chitra her national award along with GOd of Music who got his first delayed national award for a tamil movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOZ5nX7 ... rt_radio=1

# Chinna payyan Oruvan | Illayaraja | Illayaraja | Illayaraja | Guru Ramana Geetam (devotional album) | 2003

- Rajesh dated May 04th,2020

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Illayaraja and Ramana Maharishi -Deep Musical and a Deeper Spiritual connect
www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=362669#p362669

- Rajesh dated May 04th,2020

rajeshnat
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#48 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Vegam Vegam Pogum Pogum Magic Journey - Writeup for school kids with Illayaraja song
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This song came in 1990-1991 timeframe transitioning when many like me were transitioning from school to college. I did recently help one third standard kid to ride a bicycle in 2020 As I was loitering in my apartment the two senior kids in the apartment are saying NEET exams is there and our exam results are out on July 15th. May be there is some correlation may be there is none, it is sad to see the school kids of all sizes getting caged with Corona. Moving on with the song

#1# Hear the recording of vEgam vEgam which is now digitally mastered . See the interlude of the song . Prabhakaran one of the ace violinist who played for God of Music says somewhere in some interview this song is just full score of music for all musicians . He says There is a whole symphony within this song.

#2# There is chorus , violin and all string instruments, synthesier, piano, metallic flute,bass guitar, lead guitar, main singer singing in both low pitch with chorus singing in upper register.

#3# You can hear the violin and synthesiser interlude especially from 01:55 to 02:05 and the preceding chorus. The second interlude with a cycle bell like variation i am assuming that is late Viji Immanuel in piano/synthesiser . IllayaRaja Sir is inventing new sound. Mozart And Beethoven Symphony Orchestras are there in the two interludes of the song.

#4# Chorus singers with Usha Uthup is the main singer.How can anyone give so much life to chorus like what IllayaRaja does . JUst hear the excerpt of chorus example when you hear the first interlude with wu wu wu. That wu wu is also a new musical sound . I am also assuming Late Purushottaman is leading all the way with his extraordinary drums and his perfect rhythm.

#5# I recollect Mani Rathnam wanted to model this song with the famous Steven Spielberg ET movie then . Certainly spielberg movies not having Illayaraja score is only a loss for Hollywood. How did Kollywood Illayaraja imagine a spielberg Hollywood ET movie science fiction with just an audio song.

I will stop here with the chorus line so apt for Panniapurathu Maharaja.

EdhO EdhO vindaigal EllamE arputham
yennana Chitiram ellAmE vichitram

Vegam Vegam Pogum Pogum Magic Journey |Usha Uthup | Chorus by kids of Illayaraja, Gangai Amaran and Bhaskar | Vaali| Illayaraja| Anjali | 1990

Special thanks to this great uploader who has polished IR gem for us to hear all the magic harmonics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyj_kULHtNs

- Rajesh , dated July 01st ,2020


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Vegam Vegam Pogum Pogum Magic Journey - Writeup for school kids with Illayaraja song
www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=364439#p364439

- Rajesh , dated July 01st ,2020

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#49 Re: Illayaraja

Post by rajeshnat »

Illayaraja- Naan Oru Ponnoviyam kanden ilamai - extreme Carnatic
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Illayaraja , the prolific composer is an amalgamation of 3 musical genres - Carnatic Classical, Western and Village Folk .

He cleverly mixes with his own concoction ,every mix is a surprise . While most of his songs you can map it to a definite carnatic raga , there is always some shade of western harmony and/or village folk. Let us take in and out a carnatic composition.This post is all about his one musical genre - carnatic .

#1# The movie kannil theriyum kathaikal is a 1980 early saga of raja sir.Incidentally 5 music directors inclusive of Illayaraja composed where each of them created one song . Illayaraja's guru GK venkatesh also created one song and even his super senior KV Mahadevan created one song , but Illayaraja created this magic where he adopted this song Naan Oru Ponnoviyam in ragam mohanam.

#2# In 2020 taking young kids and making them basically appreciate carnatic classical is a tussle and how to bring a basic interest to kids is a himalayan struggle due to global problem of plenty to choose . We usually give an attempt to make them hear few thukkadas with some catchy basic ragas like mohanam mayamalavagowlai shivaranjani etc.

This is just not working for many. The bigger struggle is for them to get the basic structural muse of south indian instruments like mrudangam , veena, flute , jalatharangam. Also the biggest struggle is for them to adjust to alapana, structural constructs like thillana jathi ,taanam like phrases and also for them to basically assimilate the fact that this music is centered on composition .

Let us move on...

#3# Here comes the main actor Illayaraja with 3 support actors SPB, S janaki and P susheela with a lot more supporting actors . In 1980 Illayaraja made us listen to carnatic classical music without revealing that this music is carnatic,

Let us discover how the known carnatic in :evil: conditioned ears of 2020 :evil: was revealed then in the :twisted: unconditioned ears of 1980 :twisted:

#3A# The song has 3 stanzas hooray. The opening interlude is a clever collection of well tuned carnatic instruments with chief import western violin also in as a prolific not out batsman.Opening prelude rhythms are teasers with salangai cymbals and mrudangam. The interlude lead instruments all are again intense southern carnatic instruments, the plot starts with distinct jalatharangam and opening interludes end with a distinct veena(may be sitar)(Lesson 1 learnt without knowing south indian instruments you already learnt).

#3B# The first supporting actor spb comes roaring with his shruthi maatha entry after laya pitha interlude.SPB sings with a feel the line போதை தரும் நாதசுரம்? which roughly means intoxicating naada .Indeed the unknown pentatonic Mohanam has gone deep to many in 1980 without even knowing that there is some thing called ragam (Lesson 2 learnt without you knowing ragam and mohanam).

#3C# The first interlude starts heavily , I am assuming the instrument is not veena but sitar. But hey wait the ragam still only stays as mohanam and has not moved to Hindustani bhoop despite a trespass from carnatic veena to Hindustani Sitar.Flash of jalatharangam is a stop gap and the flute takes over distinctly with the anchor of mohanam jeeva pidis getting more pronounced with always violin being the interchange instruments. Mohanam is still there

#3D# The Melody king SPB is joined by P susheela in first stanza. We struggle in carnatic concerts where many of them struggle to appreciate raga alapana and lose their patience before the start of krithi. But Illayaraja gives alapana in between lines of the charanam (Lesson 3A learnt without you knowing alapana you just started liking alapana too).Susheela sings beautifully but S janaki sings next .

#3E# The usually expressive violin gets most expressive with a beautiful interlude in little higher register of mohanam . ALapana is more with a higher share of chorus singers (Lesson 3B learnt after you getting little acclimatized with alapana you just started enjoying longer alapana too in second interlude)

#3F# S janaki , i would humbly say is best artist for Musical expressions .What feel she gives and she takes . Just hear the line where she steadies with her pitch in the line Oru vaanam karu megam and guides her musical brother spb.

#3G# Third interlude you also get acclimatized with a thillana also , You get a boat load of jathi phrases of a typical thillana like thirana thana thirana(Lesson 4 learnt you started liking thillana)

#3H# In 3rd stanza starts with a phrase of a typical taanam that comes in Raagam Taanam Pallavi . The taanam phrase is Thanthom thanam thanam (Lesson 5 learnt you started liking taanam )

#3I# In the same stanza both janaki and susheela along with lyricist pulamaipithan also reveal sahitya bhavam and they craft the ragamudra in their song too in the line "Athu enna MoghanamO ". This point is a lie actually they only sing a "Athu enna NoodhanamO" but i heard for many years as mohanamO till few minutes back when i checked that line in web with the song. All said this misunderstanding can also be a lesson (lesson 6 and and 7 with raga mudra and sahitya bhava)

#4# For many years atleast a generation born in 1960's to 1970s all got acclimitized to Indian carnatic music only because of the early exposure of these beautiful nuggets that IsaignAni created. We dont have a guru like Illayaraja in 2020 to camouflage the deep classical nuggets namely - depth of instruments,south indian instruments,ragam , alapana ,thillana, taanam, ??raga mudra and sahitya bhava . God of Music gave 7 carnatic nuggets in 5 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igqp75E ... rt_radio=1

Naan Oru Ponnoviyam Kanden illamai | Kavignar Pulamaipithan | SPB, S Janaki and P Susheela |Illayaraja(1 of 5) | kannil theriyum kathaikal |1980

- Rajesh dated July 16th,2020 , 2nd Fortnight July 2020 Edition

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Illayaraja- Naan Oru Ponnoviyam kanden ilamai - extreme Carnatic with 7 nuggets

www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=364941#p364941

- Rajesh dated July 16th,2020 , 2nd Fortnight July 2020 Edition

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#50 Re: Illayaraja

Post by sureshvv »

Don't think Ilayaraja belongs here.

Can we have a "Music Directors" topic or thread where we can move him?

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