Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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Lakshman
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Lakshman »

navanIta cOra. rAgA: cenjuruTi. tisragati Adi tALA. Tyagaraja.

P: navanIta cOra dEvaki vasudEva nandanA vasudEva nandana yashOdana candana
A: brndArakAddi vandita kEshava bhakta candana indIvarAyata lOcana Ananda candana
C1: bAluragUDi nAma smaraNa jEsukondamA bhaktula pAdadhULi manapai jhallukondamA
2: rAja rAja rAja mahA rAjashEkara rAja rAja shUra tyAgarAja shEkhara

vgovindan
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Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

lakshmanji,
Thanks for response.
I feel that this kRti is written by someone in praise of tyAgarAja.
Any further inputs from others pse?

ksrimech
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:25

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by ksrimech »

VGVji - This could be from the "new" series which Nedunuri Garu popularized.

vgovindan
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Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

ksri,
This is surely not a Tyagaraja kRti for the following reasons -
(1) Pallavi and anupallavi are in praise of Krishna.
(2) Charanam 1 says 'nAma smaraNa jEsukondAmA' - shall we sing praises of the Lord?
and 'bhaktula pAda dhULi manapai callukondAmA' - shall we sprinkle the dust of devotees' feet on us?
(3) Charanam 2 says 'tyAgarAja Sekhara'. This is not the typical mudra of tyAgarAja.

This is a confused kRti. It is neither praise of Lord, not exhortation to other devotees.
Therefore, this cannot be a Tyagaraja Kriti.

keerthi
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Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 14:10

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by keerthi »

Another answer is that no other musician of any pAThAntara has sung this one, this sui generis has first (probably)been sung by Nedanuri, and was probably first notated by MancAla JagannAtha RAo.


2. yashOdana/ yAshOdhana candana doesn't make sense.

3. There is no prAsa conformity in the CaraNa-s or between pallavi and anupallavi.

venkatakailasam
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by venkatakailasam »

'E'-SWARA-001-Shri Neduneri Krishnamurthy-Navaneetha chora.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTiHK3TrpY


shri Neduneri's rendering is at variance with the lyrics?

venkatakailasam

vgovindan
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

navanIta cOra namO namO nava mahi mAnava namO namO
hari nArAyaNa kESavAcyuta kRshNa nara siMha vAmana namO namO
mura hara padma nAbha mukunda gOvinda nara nArAyaNa namO namO
vaikuNTha rukmiNi vallabha cakra dhara nAgESa vallida namO namO
SrIkara sukha nidhi SrI ranga kEsara nAgajana nuta namO namO

This is what I hear. Doubtful portions are highlighted.

srikanthj
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by srikanthj »

This 'Navanite corais a Annamacharya kriti. Lyrics below. Neduneri-garu has not sung the second charanam.

P: navanIta cOra namO namO navamahimArNava namO namO
C1: hari nArAyaNa kEsavAchyuta SrikrishNa narasimha vAmana namO namO
murahara padmanAbha mukunda gOvinda naranArAyaNarupa namO namO
C2: nigama gOchara vishNu neerajAksha vAsudEva nagadhara nandagOpa namO namO
triguNAteeta dEva trivikrama dwArakAnagarAdhinAyaka namO namO
C3: VaikunTha rukmiNivallabha cakradhara nAkESavandita namO namO
Sreekara guNanidhi Sri VenkaTESwara nAkaJananamata namO namO

Lakshman
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Lakshman »

During my research at the Music Academy I came across a small booklet of apoorva sahityas of Tyagaraja. The only song that I did not have in my database is posted below. Maybe this is another disputed song.

panca nadIsha pAhimAm. rAgA: gaurimanOhari. Adi tALA.

P: panca nadIsha pAhimAm hara pAhi mAm parama bhakta manOhara
A: enci jUcuTa E vELanu manci amayamuna mAnamu kApADumu
C: pancabhUtamulella bAguga jErci pancAkSara mantra praNava OmkAra nAda
pancama shruti bhAvamu parugumani balikina kunjara shrI tyAgarAjuku Ananda

vs_manjunath
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Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 19:37

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vs_manjunath »

Can rasikas provide URLs to Thyagaraja songs on Lord Rama decsribing the lord as a child ans his playing during childhood etc....parallel to Bala Kaanda & Ayodhya Kaanda of Valimiki Ramyanam.

There is supposed to be "Thyagaraja Ramayanam ", likes to know the list of songs in Thyagaraja Ramayanam also.

venkatakailasam
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by venkatakailasam »

Some group krities of Thyagaraja...

Thyagaraja's Kovoor Pancharatna Krithis
1-bhO-mahAdEva--panthuvarALi--rUpaka--MSS
2-I-vasudha--sahanA--Adi--Nedunuri
3-kOrisEvimpa-rArE--Kharahapriya--Adi--TR Subramaniam
4-nammivacchina--kalyANi--rUpaka--TR Subramaniam
5-sundarEshwaruni--ShankarABharaNa--Adi--Oleti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW3Qqzgo1dU

Srirangam Pancharatnam-Thyagaraja..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M1tYeAzBk0


Lalgudi Tapastirthapuram pancharatna krities-Thyagaraja.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-ikjNztlQ

Tiruvotriyur Pancharatnam..

(Rendered by..Dr. BMK- Smt. NCV- Dr.MLV- Smt. Vijayamurthy- Mysore Doraiswamy Iyengar)

Listen at...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfFnp75eL8U

nutikrishnachandra
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Joined: 27 Nov 2012, 22:42

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by nutikrishnachandra »

can some one post the recording of AnandamAnandamAyenu - bhairavi by thyagaraja swami ??
thanks in advance!

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat »

Roots of sadguru near kakrala, near khammam in AP.
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/retr ... 339327.ece

Mods
rename this thread as just Thyagaraja

mohan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by mohan »

Today (31 Jan) is Bahula Panchami. The Thyagaraja Aradhana is being conducted all around world. Is any one attending the aradhana at Thiruvaiyaru today?

sivakami
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by sivakami »

nutikrishnachandra

can some one post the recording of AnandamAnandamAyenu - bhairavi by thyagaraja swami ??
thanks in advance!
pl. check your email...

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

MKR had asked about the possible periods of Thyagaraja’s compositions and rajeshnat had asked to write about these in this thread. There is very little evidence in his songs. But some songs do give some clues. Let us look at the kShEtra kritis first since they may be easy to place.

Upanishad Brahmam, a friend of Thyagaraja’s father Rama Brahmam (he was a friend of Dikshitar’s father Ramaswami Dikshitar too), sent a srImukham inviting Thyagaraja to Kanchipuram (This srImukham is still preserved at the Saurashtra Sabha, Madurai along with the Wallapet manuscripts). This was in the year 1835. On the way Thyagaraja visited Lalgudi first and then proceeded to Srirangam and stayed there for a period of time. It was the vaikuNta EkAdasi festival in December 1835-January 1836.

Of the five Srirangam songs, 'O rangasAyI' alone was composed on the periya perumAL, the shayana tirukOlam. He clearly mentions that he has come to have darshan of the muthangi sEvA (mutyAla sarula yuramunu gAna vachiti). muthangi is a cloth which has gold and diamonds and is worn by the Lord only during the vaikuNTA EkAdasi festival in mArgazhi (December-January).

‘rAju veDala’(dEshya tODi) and 'vinarAda' (dEvagAndhAri) are descriptions of the horse vAhanam at Srirangam. But 'rAju veDala' pertains to the horse vAhanam during daytime and 'vinarAda' pertains to the horse vAhanam at night time, though on the same day. 'rAju veDala' describes the Lord as wearing precious ornaments of navaratna, 'vinarAda' describes just the horse vAhana without the Lord wearing navaratnAs, because, azhagiya maNavALan wears navaratnas only during the daytime procession not during the night time procession. So 'rAju veDAla' was sung during daytime and 'vinarAda' during night though on the same day, the day of the kudirai vAhanam during the vaikuNTa EkAdasi.

We do not know on which day of the festival the Arabhi song 'jUtA murArE' was composed, except that it is a song on the processional deity. That is obvious from the sAhitya.

The sArangA song 'karuNa jUDavayyA' is interesting as it describes the Lord giving darshan along with the 2 nAchiyArs (srI dEvi and bhU dEvi) and the 12 Alwars. On no other day during the year does He come out with the nAchiyArs or the Alwars. But this is not a procession. On Sankaranti day, i.e., on Pongal (usually January 14th) the Lord comes to the Sankaranti manTapam which is near the tAyAR (Sri Ranganayaki) sannidhi along with the nAchiyArs and the Alwars and partakes of all the neivEdyams offered there. Thyagaraja describes this in the sArangA song.

Consulting an astrological programme I discovered that in the year 1836, Pongal fell on January 14th. So, Thyagaraja composed the Saranga song 'karuNa jUDavayyA' on 14th January 1836. At least for this one song, we now have an exact date.

Thyagaraja then proceeded to Kanchipuram where he must have stayed for a few months at Upanishad Bramhendra mutt, considering that he witnessed the garuDa sEvA festival which is usually celebrated in May-June 1836. Thyagaraja mentions in his song on Lord Varadaraja, varadarAja ninnu kOri (swarabhUShaNi), that he has come to see the Lord’s garuDa sEvA. It was from here that he went to Wallajapet, about 30 km from Kanchipuram, at the invitation of his disciple Venkataramana Bhagavatar. Mysore Sadashiva Rao was also present at that time. He must have stayed at Wallajapet for some time. From Wallajapet it is easier to go to Tirupati via Arakkonam, Tiruttani etc. Therefore he must have visited Tirupati perhaps in July-August 1836 and composed his two songs on Venkatachalapati there. From Tirupati he went to Madras and composed his songs at Tiruvotriyur and Kovur.

So, for these kShEtra kritis we have the years (1835, 1836) and possible months. Thyagaraja must have returned to Tiruvaiyyaru by late 1836 or early 1837.

mahavishnu
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by mahavishnu »

very insightful, RaviSri. Please continue.

Rsachi
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Rsachi »

RaviSri,
Fascinating. Thanks.

Given that Thyagaraja lived quite long, given that he had so many disciples who carried on and handed own the body of his compositions, are there any other references and dates in their memoirs!? Also since we would be having some government records the period, can we come up with similar analyses like yours on other compositions!? For example each of the pancharatna kritis. I just read somewhere that the song Jagadanandakaraka has a hundred names of Vishnu from Sahasranama. When would Thyagaraja have composed it? What was the trigger? Etc.

From my questions, you can see I am a novice, but am very keen on learning from people like you.

Thanks again!

RaviSri
Posts: 512
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

Rsachi wrote:
I just read somewhere that the song Jagadanandakaraka has a hundred names of Vishnu from Sahasranama.
Nookala Chinna Satyanarayana gave 5 lecdems in successive years at the Music Academy in the 1980s on the Pancharatnams. He also published these in book form. He listed out 108 nAmAs of Rama (Vishnu) from jagadanandakArakA. Will find out and try to post.

I don't know whether some of these are taken from the Visnhu Sahasranama. I think not. For e.g., 'jaya jAnaki prANa nAyaka' refers to Rama and is not there in the Vishnu Sahasranama. There is no evidence as to when the nAta Pancharatnam was composed. Nothing in the kriti itself. One can find out probable dates in certain kritis. i am listing them and will post when finalised.

There is one reference in a biography of Wallajapet Venkataramana Bhagavatar (since ceased publication). When he started learning from Thyagaraja, the bard is supposed to have composed 'jnAnamosagarAdA', meaning will not jnAnA dawn upon this disciple. I am not convinced about this. The song talks about the highest jnAnam, that of the Self.

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

After the tsunami of 2004, I had written an article for the Astrological Magazine, published from Bangalore. This article was published in the issue of March 2005. I am giving excerpts from the article,eschewing some of the astrological details. Some people did not accept my logical references, saying they were far fetched and were a product of my 'fertile imagination'. Nevertheless I believe in this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tsunami and Carnatic Music
By M. Ravindra Narayanan

The title must surely have raised eyebrows and perhaps even resulted in a mild shock for some. What is the connection between a gross human tragedy and one of the most sublime of art forms?

Such a colossal tragedy has not perhaps occurred in recent human memory. With over 2 lakh people killed, innumerable others untraceable and millions left homeless, man, at least now, should understand his limitations and bow to nature whose mysterious ways he is still not able to comprehend properly.

The tsunami of December 26th 2004 must teach us many lessons, not the least among which should be the effort to adapt to nature’s ways and to utilize our ancient disciplines to understand the various phenomena that cause such tragedies and try to minimize, if not obliterate losses in the form of life, property etc.

Modern savants have been crying hoarse over the need to utilize the services of astrology in order to understand natural disasters, their causes and ways to predict the timing of these disasters but to no avail. In the name of modern science we have been foolish enough to dismiss off our traditional disciplines as superstition.

The Indian Ocean tsunami that occurred on 26th December 2004 is not the first nor will it be the last to strike our country. The issue of 27th December of ‘The Hindu’ carried the news of the tragedy as also an editorial, which apart from other things, mentioned that there were previous tsunamis that had occurred in 1941 and in 1881 in India. Subsequently we came to know that the tsunami of 1941 occurred on 26th June with its epicenter in Andaman Islands and that of 1881 occurred on December 31st with its epicenter in Indonesia. Highly interesting from the point of view of astrology, for, it reveals that the tsunami occurs once every sixty years or thereabouts in India. The sixty year cycle is the common denominator for the movements of both Jupiter and Saturn, the two most important planets of the solar system at least as far as astrology is concerned.

Now on to the strange, nevertheless fascinating connection between tsunami and Carnatic music.

Considering the sixty year circle of the tsunami, and knowing that it occurred in 1881, we can safely infer that there was a tsunami sixty years before that, in the 1820s, say between 1820 and 1825. The Trinity of Carnatic music (Shyama Sastri, Thyagaraja and Muthuswami Dikshitar) were alive then. The most affected state of India in the recent tsunami was Tamilnadu. We now know that in the 1881 and 1941 tsunamis too, Tamilnadu was the worst affected. In 2004, in Tamilnadu, the Nagapattinam region which is part of the Cauvery delta region as also a coastal area was the worst affected. It devastated the region and at least seven thousand people were killed in Nagapattinam alone.

Take the two compositions written in praise of the Nagapattinam deities by Thyagaraja and Muthuswami Dikshitar, two of the Carnatic music trinity. Dikshitar in his Soundararajam Ashraye in the raga Brindavana Saranga written in praise of Lord Soundararaja Perumal says in a line, ‘ambudhi garva nigraham’ which means He (the Lord) quelled the pride of the sea. In his Saveri raga song on Goddess Neelayatakshi in the Siva Kayarohanesa temple, Thyagaraja says, ‘vaaridhi madhi gavinchi ee, vasudaku taaraanenchi ninnu, saareku ganitala vanchi yundu, dheeratanamugalugu ninnu podagaanchi’ which means, ‘when the sea with pride, threatened to overrun the earth, you assumed a heroic form, on seeing which, the sea became submissive and desisted from destroying the earth. The whole of the second charanam of the song is dedicated to this.

Sanskrit scholar and a past secretary of the Music Academy, Madras, Dr. V. Raghavan has written in his thesis on Thyagaraja compositions, ‘The Spiritual Heritage of Thyagaraja’ that he, Dr. Raghavan, tried to verify whether there was any mention of the pride of the sea being quelled by the divinities in the sthala puranas (stories about the origin of the temple and details of the Gods and Goddesses and their exploits) of these two temples but did not succeed. The tsunami obviously did not find a place in the sthala puranas.

The logical inference is that Thyagaraja and Dikshitar must have heard about this tragedy and visited Nagapattinam. For Dikshitar, Nagapattinam is very near Tiruvarur where he lived. News of such a colossal tragedy must have moved both Thyagaraja and Dikshitar who travelled to Nagapattinam. They must have been briefed by the local people about the tragedy. They also would have seen that unlike Dwaraka which was swallowed by the sea, Nagapattinam was, despite being devastated, not destroyed completely and that many people were alive. They must also have seen that people were given refuge and food in the two big temples. This happened even after the 2004 tsunami. Thousands were accommodated and fed for three or four days.Very surprising, given the pathetic, self-centered nature of our times.

I have logically inferred that Thyagaraja and Dikshitar were referring to the tsunami in their songs. Shyama Sastri’s visit to Nagapattinam must have predated the tsunami for we don’t find a mention of any such incident in his song ‘Neelayatakshi’.

The two great composers could not prevent the tragedy, but at least they empathised with the people who suffered and each dedicated a song to the worst affected region and its people.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people may not agree with my inference. If someone who has access to the Madras Archives can use their influence we can details of the previous tsunami and fix a month and year when these two songs were composed. The British were meticulous in recording events of importance and a lot of material is available in the Madras Archives, the oldest in India, about the Madras Presidency of those times.

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Rsachi »

RaviSri,
I found this note on the Internet about a tsunami in 1762..
QUOTE
I am searching for any first-hand accounts of a tsunami which may have been
observed following a very large earthquake on the 2nd April 1762 which
occurred in the Bengal - Burma border region. The epicentre is believed to
have been about 40 km southeast of Chittagong, or 61 km north of Cox's
Bazaar, or 257 km southeast of Dacca. There was severe damage in Chittagong.
As a result, more than 160 km of the Arakan coast was elevated, while other
areas sank. The water in the Hooghli River at Calcutta rose two metres, and
at Dacca boats were capsized and many people were drowned. While it is
likely a large tsunami was generated by this event, the accounts so far
available are few and far between. In particular, are there any accounts of
casualties along the Arakan coast, the Sunderbans, and further along the
western side of the Bay of Bengal, perhaps as far as Madras and beyond.
UNQUOTE

I also found a reference to a big tsunami around 1830 that hit Mahabalipuram and exposed many ancient stone structures.

your title of the article seemed to connect astrology and Carnatic music.. But surely a tsunami will be a big enough disaster, as you quoted, to stir the feelings of great souls. Astrology's ability to predict a tsunami is a different matter altogether.

Thanks!

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

Rsachi wrote:
your title of the article seemed to connect astrology and Carnatic music.. But surely a tsunami will be a big enough disaster, as you quoted, to stir the feelings of great souls. Astrology's ability to predict a tsunami is a different matter altogether.
Since it was the Astrological Magazine, I had to connect Astrology with tsunami. The magazine had predicted that there would occur a massive earthquake in South East Asia and that it would trigger the ocean to rise several feet. This was in the January 2004 issue itself and it happened in December 2004. But here, Astrology is not our concern. As you have quoted from an Internet article which says there was a tsunami in 1762, my stand that a tsunami occurs once every 60 years gets vindicated. The next tsunami must have been in 1822. It might also be possible that the tsunami occurred in 1830 (there may be mistake in the year) as the article says. Even in 1830 Thyagaraja and Dikshitar were alive. That is my point.

Even if 'ambudhi garva nigraham' in soundararAjam were to mean the pride of the sea being quelled by Rama before his journey to Lanka, then what about the Thyagaraja song in which he devotes an entire charanam to the rising of the sea?

I am just trying to bring some historic perspective wherever possible in Thyagaraja/Dikshitar kritis.

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Rsachi »

RaviSri,
I am sure there is some further investigation required to establish how astrology can predict tsunamis! You have a point there. At least the powers that be can have better disaster preparedness.
Kindly look into how astrology might have predicted the terrible disaster in Fukushima. I would be very curious. Also the frequent hurricanes and typhoons in the American continent.

Ambudhi-garva-nigraham seems to point more to the fury unleashed by a terrible sea than about the sea not readily obliging and giving way to Rama. In fact in Valmiki Ramayana, the Samudra-raja offers good counsel to Rama.

RaviSri
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

Ambudhi-garva-nigraham seems to point more to the fury unleashed by a terrible sea than about the sea not readily obliging and giving way to Rama. In fact in Valmiki Ramayana, the Samudra-raja offers good counsel to Rama.
Yes, that's what I also think. That's why I thought Dikshitar must have referred to the tsunami.

isramesh
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 10:22

Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by isramesh »

Recently I was reading this book "T.S.Sundaresa Sarma's Tyagaraja Charitam - Translated by Aarthi Sankaran", which was available in Sangeethapriya. There is a reference to this krithi "rinaat katham tu bhavatastarishyaami" which Sri Tyagaraja was purported to have sung in response to an incident. I searched for this krithi but could not find it in any other source. The book itself is not a genuine biography but more on the lines of a mythological hence one may not rely upon the incidents mentioned but I feel the krithis mentioned must be genuine. But how come it is not mentioned anywhere else, I am not sure. Had anyone looked into this to find the veracity of this krithi - I am curious to know. Thanks.

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

"rinaat katham tu bhavatastarishyaami"
Never heard of such a 'kriti'. Like the mythology (hagiography) that that book by T.S.Sundaresa Sharma is, this so called kriti is also a fake. Can't even imagine Thygaraja using such words.

vgovindan
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

'ambudhi garva nigrahaM' in the Dikshitar kRti 'soundara rAjaM', would refer to Tsunami in Nagappattinam Please refer to anupallavi words 'nAga paTTana rAjaM'.

'ambudhi mada garvinci' in tyAgarAja kRti 'karmamE balavantamAyA' (sAvEri) refers to nIlAyatAkshi at Nagappattinam and Tsunami there.

However to reference to samudra rAja in the context of vAlmIki Ramayana is made in the tyAgarAja kRti 'evariccirirA' (madhyamAvati). He refers to rAma redirecting the brahmAstra (originally aimed at samudra rAja) against the dwellers of drumakulya (Barmer in Rajasthan) as referred to vAlmIki Ramayana.
V Govindan

VK RAMAN
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by VK RAMAN »

vgovindan: Good to see you back. Thanks for being always there to advance the cause of Thyagaraja kritis

vgovindan
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

One of the methods for chronicling kRtis of SrI tyAgarAja could be by sequencing the kRtis where incidents of Ramayana are mentioned. In the kRti 'E panikO' (asAvEri), SrI tyAgarAja expresses his desire to compose kRtis (about rAma) in the same manner as done my vAlmIki and others (vAlmIkAdi munulu narulu ninnnu varNinciri).

In the kRti 'rAga ratna mAlikA' (rItigauLa) SrI tyAgarAja states 'Sata rAga ratna mAlikacE rajjillunaTa' - the Lord shines with the garland of hundred(s) of rAga jewels. This kRti could mean that he has completed(?) composition as per his desire (stated above).

TS Balakrishna Sastrigal in his 'tyAgarAja rAmAyaNa' discourse, gives some sequence of Ramayana, which IMHO does not necessarily reflect the chronological order of Ramayana (as composed by the bard), because the kRtis chosen do not really seem to have such references. For example, he (Sastrigal) states 'mundu venuka' (darbAru) refers to rAma and lakshmaNa accompanying sage viSvAmitra. However, some others state that this kRti was sung when SrI tyAgarAja was proceeding to tirupati via Nagalapuram forests wherein some bandits surrounded the entourage of SrI tyAgarAja.

As all the books have catalogued the kRtis only by rAgas, the task of chronicling tyAgarAja kRtis would be a painstaking research.

rajeshnat
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat »

Govindan Sir,

There are many krithis of sadguru on Lord RAmA where at times musicians sing as rama, rAma ,ramA ,rAmA etc
For eg rama nee sAmanEvaru ....then as they go with more sangathis rAmA nee sAmanEvaru in kharaharapriya .
Also rama nannu brova rA ....rAma nannu brova ra.... rAmA nannu brova rA in harikambOdhi

Has thyagaraja intended to have lyrics even as rama,ramA,rAma instead of rAmA . Can each of these pronounciations only indicate Lord rAmA . Is there different meanings for rama ramA than rAmA in telugu.

Or is it just musicality that dictates so many pronunciations of Lord rAmA.

rshankar
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rshankar »

Rajesh, as far as I know, rAma and rAmA should not be incorrect...however, ramA would be totally wrong in this context, as ramA is lakshmi.

vgovindan
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

'rama' means 'to delight'
rAmA is the form of addressing.
It is not correct to sing 'rama nannu brOva'; 'rAmA nannu brOva' is the correct form.
However, even eminent singers like MS have sung it wrongly 'rAma nannu brOvarA' - the last syllable 'rA' is part of the next word 'rAvEmakO' (why would you do not come).
But then that is what paddhati is all about. No one is ready to bell the cat.

rajeshnat
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat »

vgovindan wrote:'rama' means 'to delight'
VGV
Is there a T song where sadguru has used to mean delight (rama)?

vgovindan
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vgovindan »

rajesh,
In the kRti 'ramincuvArevarurA' - supOshiNi - SrI tyAgarAja uses the word 'rama' as such to mean 'delight'.
However, various other forms of the word 'ramincu (telugu form of the word 'rama'), ramya, ramaNIya, rAma (in the sense of 'delight') abhirAma are used in many kRtis.

vgovindan
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Origin of sapta svara in the Body

Post by vgovindan »

In the tyAgarAja kRti 'svara rAga sudhA' - SankarAbharaNaM, it is said -
"kOlAhala sapta svara gRhamula gurutE mOkshamurA O manasA"
(Recognising the abodes (in the body) of the splendorous seven svaras is indeed liberation)

According to the Tamil Book 'tamizhar vaLarttha azhagu kalaigaL' - http://www.tamilvu.org/library/lA417/html/lA417ind.htm
the following places are indicated -
இசை ஏழு. அவை குரல், துத்தம், கைக்கிளை, உழை, இளி, விளரி, தாரம் என்பன. இவை தமிழ்ப் பெயர்கள்.
மத்திமம், பஞ்சமம், தைவதம், நிஷாதம், ஷட்ஜம், ரிஷபம், காந்தாரம் என்பன வடமொழிப் பெயர்கள்.
இசை பிறக்கும் இடங்களாவன: மிடற்றினால் குரலும், நாவினால் துத்தமும்,
அண்ணத்தால் கைக்கிளையும், சிரத்தால் உழையும், நெற்றியால் இளியும்,
நெஞ்சினால் விளரியும், மூக்கால் தாரமும் பிறக்கும். பக்கம் (123)

Accordingly the body parts are - 'ma - throat (kaNTha), pa (tongue), dha (palate), ni (head), sa (forehead), ri (chest), ga (nose)

rajeshnat
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat »

Govindan Sir(VGV)
IS abhista varadE mahAganapathE sung by hamsadhwani by maharajapuram school , a composition of sadguru Thyagaraja. Incidentally the krithi itself has lines like sadguru thyagarajan , can you let me know bit more about the krithi-is this spurious or wrongly attributed to Sadguru.

Lakshman
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Lakshman »

When I was at the Music Academy a while back, I came across a booklet by Vishvanatha Iyer titled Apoorva kritis of Tyagaraja or something like that. It had the song abhiSTa varada shrI.

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

It is a spurious kriti. Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer came out with about 25 songs of "Thyagaraja" in 1947 during the composer's Aradhana centenary. These songs faded away in quick time only to be resurrected occasionally by his son many years later. Thankfully these fakes have now become very rare.

rajeshnat
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat »

RaviSri wrote:It is a spurious kriti. Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer came out with about 25 songs of "Thyagaraja" in 1947 during the composer's Aradhana centenary. These songs faded away in quick time only to be resurrected occasionally by his son many years later. Thankfully these fakes have now become very rare.
Ravisri
This krithi has sadguru thyagaraja as one of the phrase in charanam, by any chance is there any original krithi written by T having sadguru thyagaraja as a phrase. Possibly this came to MVI thru his guru Umayalapuram swaminatha iyer- umayalpuram krishna bhagavathar(krishna was direct disciple of T) .Do you have the list of those 25 songs

bhakthim dehi
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by bhakthim dehi »

These songs came through one Thiruvaiyaru Subrahmanya Iyer. If I am not wrong he belongs to Thillaisthanam school. The sad part is that these songs were published by Sri Thyagaraja Utsava Sabha, Thiruvaiyaru.

bhakthim dehi
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by bhakthim dehi »

We can see Dr Balamuralikrishna rendering some of these songs (present in that book). Examples include Rakshimpave in malavagoula, Kalasamhara in sourashtram. Kshetrapalaka in bilahari was rendered by MLV.

keerthi
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by keerthi »

I am not at all interested in discussing these spurious krtis, but it is sad that they are still sung and taught. And it is important that people be informed about the story. Here is an older post where I have written about this set of fakes.

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

Possibly this came to MVI thru his guru Umayalapuram swaminatha iyer- umayalpuram krishna bhagavathar(krishna was direct disciple of T)
These songs came through one Thiruvaiyaru Subrahmanya Iyer. If I am not wrong he belongs to Thillaisthanam school. The sad part is that these songs were published by Sri Thyagaraja Utsava Sabha, Thiruvaiyaru.
Umayalpuram Krishna Bhagavatar and Sundara Bhagavatar were very young when Thyagaraja was in his last years. T.S.Parthasarathy has said that the brothers were possibly disciples of Manambuchavadi Venkatasubbayyar. The brothers lived upto almost 1910. Umayalpuram Swaminatha Iyer most certainly would not have sung or taught spurious kritis. Such was his integrity. Viswanatha Iyer himself was innocent and he was inveigled into believing that these kritis were Thyagaraja's.

I dont have the list of the 25 songs. Why bother preserving a spurious list. Any sensitive rasika can easily find out if a kriti is original or fake if he/she has studied at least a few compositions of Thyagaraja. Ditto with Dikshitar ad Shyama Sastri.

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

Here is an older post where I have written about this set of fakes.
Another is that absurdity 'avatAramenduku AyAsameduku' in harikambhOji which was sung and taught with rare fervour by the mahAvidwAn T.Viswa. His students continue the legacy of singing [and teaching, I suppose] this song, undeterred by T.Brinda's comment on the song.
Apropos Keerthi's post in another thread for which he has given the link the incident involving Brindamma is this:

In 1989, Viswa gave a concert at Brindamma's house. He sang this song 'avatAramendykku' and announced that Thyagaraja had composed it at Chidambaram. I was sitting at Brindamma's feet. When I looked up to her and to Mukthamma who was sitting next to her enquiringly, Brindamma told me, "Thyagarajar inda pATTa Chidambarathile pODalai. avar Wesleyan Universitry pOyirundappo poTTAr (Thyagaraja did not compose this at Chidambaram but composed it when he (meaning Thyagaraja) went to Wesleyan University). Viswa heard this for Brindamma's comment was audible to all. And he asked, "ennakkA?" Mukthamma replied, "oNNum ille, nI vAshi" (Oh, nothing, you play).

bhakthim dehi
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Both Umayalpuram Krishna and Sundara bhagavathar lived for 80 years. It seems they learnt from Tyagaraja svamy himself for a period of 7-8 years after the latter's sojourn to places like Kancipuram, Thirupati etc. Probably after his demise they could have come under the tutelage of Mahanombuchavadi Venkatasubbaier. Umayapuram brothers tutelage from Tyagaraja svamy cannot be denied in any case.

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Ravisri/Bhakthimdehi: Interesting tidbits. I came across this thread only today. I have been curious to find out if Thygaraja's krithis--the ones acknowledged to be authentic--can be classified chronologically at least by decades--afterall he lived into his eighties and is believed to have been composing since his forties. I am sure there must have vben several research articles by scholars.Can you direct me to some of those articles if they do exist?

MY purpose is to understand how his own maturity is reflected in these krithis.For example I believe(I could be wrong) that most of the vivadi swara krithis or krithis in ragas like balahamsa,Sindhukannada,manohari,vivardhini,etc--must have been in his early decades when Manambuchavadi Venkatasubbier and Walajapet Venkatramana Bhagavathar were his principal disciples and they propagated these krithis thro Conjeevaram Naina Pillai(I am sure RaviSri can correct me on this assumption) whereas the Umayalpuram brothers came towards the end of the saints life and that may explain WHY ARI or MVI did not popularize the earlier songs in vivadhi ragas.

One last question--the harikambodhi krithi Vinatasutha --sung by Alathur bros--is not believed to be authentic Thyagaraja krithi? Is it true?

Viswa Sir used to sing the only Shanmughapriya krithi of Thygaraja-- Vadane(I may be mispronouncing this!!). Is it authentic or even this would be dismissed by Brindamma as a Wesleyan origin song!!!!!!

Lakshman
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Lakshman »

MKR: You might be interested in reading this article.
http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/prakshipta.html

rshankar
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rshankar »

What does Sri Madhav mean by his comments on vAsudEvayani and sundari nI divya rUpamunu?

RaviSri
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri »

I have been curious to find out if Thygaraja's krithis--the ones acknowledged to be authentic--can be classified chronologically at least by decades-
Please read my posts 216 and 220 in this very thread.

Naina Pillai learnt Thyagaraja kritis from Wallajapet Krishnaswami Bhagavatar and from Jalatarangam Ramanayya Chetty who learnt a lot of them from Krishnaswamy Bhagavatar. Neither Jalatarangam nor Naina Pillai had anything to do with Manambuchavadi. Regarding the Manohari kriti (paritApamu), it can be said with some authority that it was composed during the last ten days of Thyagaraja's life, since it has reference to his vision of Sri Rama promising him salvation in ten days. Similarly with giripai (sahAnA). In the gAnavAridhi song "dayajUchuTakidi vELa", Thygaraja says that he has completed the work entrusted to him by Sri Rama with complete satisfaction and it was now time for the Lord to shower His Grace upon him (munu nIvAnadichina panula Asakoni nE manaSAraga nidAnamuga salpinAnu). It can therefore be surmised that this song must have been composed almost at the end of his life after he had finished his composing task.

Most vidvans shied away from vivadi raga kritis for whatever reason. Ariyakkudi, Musiri, Semmangudi were the prominent ones among them. Among vivadi ragas only the kritis in nATa, vAgadIshvari and varALi were sung by many vidvans. The Thillaistanam disciples had a huge repertoire of Thyagaraja's vivadi raga kritis, but unfortunately they did not give concerts and it was generally believed that their renditions were too pure and "kachErikku lAyakku paDAdu" (will not suit the concert platform).
the harikambodhi krithi Vinatasutha --sung by Alathur bros--is not believed to be authentic Thyagaraja krithi? Is it true?
That's right, it is a composition of Keertanacharya C.R.Srinivasa Iyengar with the Thyagaraja mudra. but strangely Naina Pillai used to sing this song it seems. B-M never sang this or any other spurious songs of any composer nor did their grandmother.
Viswa Sir used to sing the only Shanmughapriya krithi of Thygaraja-- Vadane(I may be mispronouncing this!!). Is it authentic or even this would be dismissed by Brindamma as a Wesleyan origin song!!!!!!
Alathur Bros also used to sing this Shanmukapriya song "vaddanE vAru lEru". Later Santhanam also used to sing this. This song seems to be authentic, especially as the Thillaistanam disciples have given this song in notation in their book. Brindamma did not like the raga Shanmukapriya. She used to snidely remark, "varALi pADa teriyAdavanga dAn ShanmukapriyA pADuvAnga".
What does Sri Madhav mean by his comments on vAsudEvayani and sundari nI divya rUpamunu?
I dont know how Sambamurthy says that sundari nI divya rUpamu was changed. B-M used to sing it as others sing it. I have not heard any other version. As for "vAsudevayani", yes, this song was changed by GNB. The original version is different. I have learnt the original version which is a lot better than GNB's. The original version starts as 'PMPDNSS' and also is slower. An old group in Trichy, the Sadguru Samajam also used to sing the original way. I have heard that Vedavalli's version is also similar, i.e., different from GNB's.

rshankar
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Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rshankar »

Are there any links for the other version of vAsudEvayani?

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