Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
Post Reply
SrinathK
Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
x 100
x 336

#276 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by SrinathK » 01 May 2016, 15:59

@RaviSri Pardon my ignorance, I have no idea what's a vIchu.

Also I still didn't get it so let me ask again. 2 counts after samam would be +1/2 eDuppu to me. More precisely, 2 notes after samam @ 4 notes / beat in 1 kalai.

I was thinking deshAdi as +1 1/2 beats after samam in 1-kalai. E.g. Eti yOchanalu. I describe a +1 1/2 eDuppu as 6 notes after samam with 4 notes in a beat OR 1 beat + 2 notes after samam with 4 notes to a beat. Am I right?

On a side note, I feel that the concept of Kalai from a metronomic point of view, is somewhat fictitious, since it is equivalent to raising the degree of speed while proportionately reducing the beats per min or the overall tempo by the same relative amount.
0 x

keerthi
Posts: 1309
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 14:10
x 1

#277 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by keerthi » 02 May 2016, 14:50

1. I think what Ravisri meant to say in the case of songs like Meru samAna etc. is madhyAdi annd not deshAdi.

2. SrinathK - You are right that songs like ETi yocanAlu represent the textbook makeup of a deshAdi song. The technical disucssion sections has a longish thread, with many older discussion on the deshadi and its unique laya.

3. vichu = veesu = visarjitam = the tAlanga marked by a wave of the hand, palm facing upwards [the second unit of a drutam for example]
On a side note, I feel that the concept of Kalai from a metronomic point of view, is somewhat fictitious
4. The concept of kapha, vAta and pitta from the biochemistry view point too, will be 'fictitious'. However they are central concepts in another paradigm of biomedical science. The notion of kaLai is probably an artifact of an older system of describing the features of tAla [kalA from the tAla-dasha-prANa-s, blurred up with mArga of the same set].

Further, I disagree with the idea that kalai is merely a matter of changing the tempo of a song. counting the number of mAtra [moraic syllables] in the lines of a song will often help to determine what is to be the laya architecture; and the transgression of these principles will gives us pAthAntara-s with cluttered or unevenly strewn sAhitya [examples are aplenty]. there are differences in other features such as the arudi kArvai and other kArvais interspersed in the song, between songs of the 1 kaLai and 2 kaLai.

This is true not just for Adi tAla, but for the jhampa tigers in chApu sheep's clothing, the tripuTa-misra ekam, the rUpaka-tisra eka gaits as well.
0 x

SrinathK
Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
x 100
x 336

#278 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by SrinathK » 02 May 2016, 23:46

I didn't intend to imply that kalai is all about changing a song's tempo (though in the trinity collections you will find quite a few that went from 2 kalai to 1 kalai simply by doing this).

There is a very distinct difference between the handling of a +3/4 eduppu pause in a 1 kalai and the same eduppu in a 2 kalai (which strictly speaking has 2 versions, a) a 6/8 version with 8 notes per kriya that's similar to dEshAdi and b) a 3/4 version at a slower tempo -- this one immediately lets you know that you are in 2 kalai and not 1 kalai, especially if used at the half way point in Adi Tala). @keethi, Excuse me for using modern English in this one, but it's easiest for me.

Right now if I understand what madhyAdi means, I think Endaro is probably the only song out there still being sung out there like that, right?

And while we are at that, who introduced that spurious charanam in sAdinchanE that never caught on?
0 x

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10916
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
x 9
x 37

#279 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vasanthakokilam » 03 May 2016, 01:25

Srinath, I think madyAdi is anything that starts between the 1st and 2nd beat. Endaro is a special case where it starts right on the 2nd beat.. right?

If I understand right, RaviSri's use of 'just before vIchu' is not from the Adi kriya point of view. He indeed is refering to desAdi songs but the Kriyas are different. We discussed this elsewhere. In that desAdi kriya scheme, the eduppu is before the vIchu. 'Before the vIchu' for desAdi does not make any sense when talked in terms of Adi. If I find the thread I will post here, or before that I am sure RaviSri will explain the original kriya for desAdi.
0 x

RaviSri
Posts: 511
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31
x 36

#280 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri » 03 May 2016, 18:24

I am sorry Srinath, I cannot explain using technical terms. I just know couple of songs in dEshAdi. keerthi has explained it well and I can do no better than give this link. It has Radha Viswanathan sing the Sankarabharanam thillana of Poochi in dEshAdi. I think you can understand the kriya of the talam because she has employed it clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiWyZLKLCA8
0 x

SrinathK
Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
x 100
x 336

#281 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by SrinathK » 03 May 2016, 20:35

Thank you RaviSri, a video is worth a thousand words!
0 x

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10916
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
x 9
x 37

#282 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by vasanthakokilam » 04 May 2016, 07:11

Is it then like a Atheetha Eduppu 2 Kalai Chathusra Eka? The difference in the kriya is the first beat is a vIchu as opposed to a thattu?
0 x

RaviSri
Posts: 511
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31
x 36

#283 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri » 04 May 2016, 18:28

Today starts the 250th birth year of Thyagaraja. Today, 4th May is his English date of birth. Had he lived he would have completed 249 years. His actual Jayanthi is on 12th May (Poosam star). Special poojas will be held on 12th at Tiruvaiyyaru and at Varahappayyar lane, Thanjavur. Shyama Sastri's is on 7th (Krithika star).
0 x

SrinathK
Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
x 100
x 336

#284 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by SrinathK » 04 May 2016, 20:08

So then, a list of Thyagaraja krithis in dEshAdi would be quite helpful. If such a list is already here somewhere, kindly let me know. Meanwhile here are the old threads on this tala

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=828

So deshAdi and madhyAdi basically consist of : wave + beat + beat + beat . @8 notes per beat, +3/4 eDuppu in this tala or six notes from from the start is deshAdi, while +1/2 eDuppu or 4 notes from the start is madhyAdi.

When transposed into the regular Adi tAla 1 kalai @ 4 notes per beat, deshAdi will be at +1 1/2 beats from samam.

For madhyAdi, change to 2 kalai Adi tala @ 1/2 eDuppu (If you take it that each major beat should be repeated twice in 2 kalai, this will land on the 2nd repetition of the 1st major beat of the tala), which will force you to repeat every line 2x to fit into the tala cycle.
0 x

Lakshman
Posts: 11245
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52
x 42

#285 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Lakshman » 04 May 2016, 21:09

Here is the list:
Ananda sAgara mIdani. rAgA: garuDadhvani. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
AnandamAnandamAyenu. rAgA: bhairavi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
bAgayanayya nI mAya lentO bramhakaina. rAgA: candrajyOti. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
baNTu rIti kolu viyavayya rAma. rAgA: hamsanAda. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
bhuvini dAsuDanE pErAsacE. rAgA: shrIranjani. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
calamElarA sAkEtarAmA. rAgA: mArgahindOLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
cEra rAvadEmirA rAmayya. rAgA: rItigauLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
cinna nADE nA ceyi baTTitivE. rAgA: kalAnidhi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
daridApulEka vEDitE. rAgA: sAvEri. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
dEvAdi dEva sadAshiva dInanAtha. rAgA: sindhurAmakriyA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
dvaitamu sukhamA advaitamu sukhamA. rAgA: rItigauLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
EdAri sancarinturA ika balkarA. rAgA: kAntAmaNi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
EmandunE vicitramunu ilalOna manuju lADEdi. rAgA: shrImaNi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
enduku nirdaya evarunnArurA. rAgA: harikAmbhOji. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
enduku peddala vale buddhi iyavu endu. rAgA: shankarAbharaNa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
enta bhAgyamu mApAla galgEtivi evvarIdu. rALA: sAranga. dEshAdi tALA
enta nErcina enta jUcina enta. rAgA: udayaravicandrikA. dEshAdi tALA
enta vEDukondu O rAghava. rAgA: sarasvatImanOhari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
EtAvuna nErcitivO rAma. rAgA: yadukulakAmbhOji. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
eTi yOcanalu cEsEvurA eduru balka. rAgA: kiraNAvaLi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
evaraina lErA peddalu ilalOna dInula. rAgA: siddhasEnA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
evaritO nE delpudu rAma nAlOni jAlini. rAgA: mAnavati. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
evvarE rAmayya nI sari. rAgA: gAngEyabhUSaNi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
giripai nelakonna rAmuni guri dappaga kaNTi. rAgA: shahAnA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
girirAja sutA tanaya sadaya. rAgA: bangALa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
gItArthamu sangItAnandamu nI tAvuna jUDarA. rAgA: suraTi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
graha balam Emi shrI rAmAnugraha balamE. rAgA: rEvagupti. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kaDatEra rAdA manasA. rAgA: tODi. dEshAdi. Tyagaraja.
kaLala nErcina munu jEsinadi gAka Emi aravai. rAgA: dIpaka. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kalinarulaku mahimalu delipi Emi. rAgA: kuntalavarALi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kamalApta kula kalashAbdhi candra. rAgA: brndAvanasAranga. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kanna taNDri nApai karuNa mAnakE gAsi. rAgA: dEvamanOhari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kaNTa jUDumi oka pAri krE. rAgA: latAngi / vAcaspati. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
kanugoNTini shrI rAmuni nEDu. rAgA: bilahari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mA jAnaki ceTTa beTTaga. rAgA: kAmbhOji. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
madilOna yOcana. rAgA: kOlAhala. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mAkElarA vicAramu. rAgA: ravicandrikA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
manasulOni marmamu. rAgA: hindOLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
manavi nAlaginca. rAgA: nalainakAnti. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mariyAda gAdayya. rAgA: bhairava. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
marugElarA O. rAgA: jayantashrI. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mATADavEmi nAtO. rAgA. nIlAmbari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mEnu jUci mOsa bOkavE. rAgA: sarasAngi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
mEru samAna. rAgA: mAyAmALavagauLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
munupE teliyaka. rAgA: bangALa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nA moralanu vini emara. rAgA: Arabhi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nAdOpAsanace. rAgA: bEgaDa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nAma kusumamulacE. rAgA: shrI. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nannu brOva nIkinta. rAgA: abhOgi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nannukanna talli. rAgA: kEsari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nenaruncarA nApaini. rAgA: simhavAhini. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nenaruncinAnu annTiki. rAgA: mALavi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nEramA rAma. rAgA: saurASTra. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nI cittamu nA. rAgA: vijayavasanta. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nI dAsAnudAsuDa. rAgA: hamIrkalyANi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nI dayacE rAma. rAgA: yadukulakAmbhOji. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
nijamuga nI mahimalu. rAgA: shahAna. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
paluku kaNDa. rAgA: navarasakannaDa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
parAku nI kElarA rAma. rAgA: kiraNAvaLi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
paralOka bhayamu. rAgA: mandAri. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
paralOka sAdhanamE. rAgA: pUrvikalyANi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
prANanAtha birAna. rAgA: shUlini. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
rAga sudhArasa pAnamu. rAgA: AndOLikA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
raghunandana rAjamOhana. rAgA: shuddhadEshi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
rAmacandra nI daya. rAgA: suraTi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sAkSi lEdanucu. rAgA: bangALa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
samukhana nilva. rAgA: kOkilavarALi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sanAtana parama pAvana. rAgA: phalamanjari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sandEhamunu dIrpumayya. rAgA: rAmapriyA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sangIta shAstra. rAgA: sALagabhairavi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sarasa sAma dAna. rAgA: kApinArAyaNi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sarasIruhAnana rAma. rAgA: mukhAri. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sarijEsi vEDuka. rAgA: tIvravAhini. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sarivArilOna cauka. rAgA: bhinnaSaDja. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sari evvarE shrI jAnaki. rAgA: shrIranjani. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sArvabhauma sAkETa. rAgA: rAgapanjaramu. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
shrI jAnakI manOhara. rAgA: IshamanOhari. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
shrI mAnini manOhara. rAgA: pUrNaSaDjam. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
shrIkAnta nIyeDa. rAgA: bhavapriyA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sItApati nA manasuna. rAgA: khamAs. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
smaraNE sukhamu. rAgA: janaranjani. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sogasu jUDa taramA. rAgA: kannaDagauLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
sukhi evarO rAma nAma. rAgA: kAnaDa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
tanamIda nE. rAgA: bhUSAvaLi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
tanavAri tanamu. rAgA: bEgaDa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
teliyalEru rAma. rAgA: dhEnukA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vAcAmagOcaramE. rAgA: kaikavashi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vara rAga layagnulu. rAgA: cencukAmbhOji. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vErevvarE gati. rAgA: suraTi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vidulaku mrokkEda. rAgA: mAyAmALavagauLa. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vina nAshakoni. rAgA: pratApavarALi. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vina rAdA nA manavi. rAgA: dEvagAndhAri. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
vinatA suta vAhana. rAgA: jayantasEnA. dEshAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.


rAma kathA sudhArasa. rAgA: madhyamAvati. madhyAdi tALA. Tyagaraja.
rAma nIyeDa prEma. rAgA: kharaharapriyA. madhyadi tALA. Tyagaraja.
0 x

isramesh
Posts: 74
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 10:22
x 16
x 4

#286 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by isramesh » 05 May 2016, 12:03

This is an interesting discussion. BTW can we get any links to one of these krithis sung in proper desadi and changed version for comparison. Just to understand for musical illiterates like me. Thanks.
0 x

kvchellappa
Posts: 3513
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54
x 804
x 221

#287 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by kvchellappa » 09 May 2016, 15:40

V Sriram is giving info on Thuagaraja under Thyagaraja250 in his tweets.
0 x

keerthi
Posts: 1309
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 14:10
x 1

#288 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by keerthi » 11 May 2016, 11:09

For madhyAdi, change to 2 kalai Adi tala @ 1/2 eDuppu (If you take it that each major beat should be repeated twice in 2 kalai, this will land on the 2nd repetition of the 1st major beat of the tala), which will force you to repeat every line 2x to fit into the tala cycle.
Actually the opposite, it is likely that madhyAdi was devised to accommodate the repetition of lines [half-lines rather] in a fashion such that each syllable falls on the same tAlanga for each repetition or sangati. People who sing mEru-samAna, rAmakathA-sudhA-rasa-pAnamu, rAma-bANa-trANa-shauryam or giripai nelakonna, while reckoning the usual 2 kaLai adi tAla will notice that every odd numbered repetition of the phrase 'mEru-samana' falls on a laghu while every even numbered repetition falls on the pair of druta-s.

Based on the tacit rule of Carnatic tradition of singing the krti, pallavi, svarakalpana and neraval that 'the sahitya syllables must occupy a fixed position'; it is untenable that ru of mEru occurs on the 14th akSara of Adi tAla for the first time, and on the 46th akSara in the next repetition. So if the style of reckoning the tAla [the kriyA] is of the madhyAdi type, there is a consistency in the position of the sAhitya syllables with regard to their position in the tAla.

I suspect that Lakshman-ji's list gives all madhyAdi-s as deshAdi. and there are instances like the sarasAngi song which has madhyAdi as well as deshAdi pAThAntarams.
0 x

rajeshnat
Posts: 8632
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04
x 79
x 215

#289 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by rajeshnat » 17 May 2016, 12:03

0 x

satyabalu
Posts: 915
Joined: 28 Mar 2010, 11:07
x 1

#290 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by satyabalu » 02 Jun 2016, 15:35

#Tyagaraja250 - 61. His opera Prahlada Bhakti Vijayam has songs in ragas that he has not used otherwise - paras & ghaNTa are examples.
Courtesy Sriram Venkatakrishnan.
0 x

RaviSri
Posts: 511
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 11:31
x 36

#291 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by RaviSri » 02 Jun 2016, 18:37

This is right only as far as paras is concerned. In ghanta, Thyagaraja has composed many songs, especially the major gAravimparAdA, perugu pAlu etc. He ha composed even a mangalam in ghanta.
0 x

shankarank
Posts: 2796
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
x 2
x 99

#292 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by shankarank » 05 Jun 2016, 10:53

keerthi wrote:Based on the tacit rule of Carnatic tradition of singing the krti, pallavi, svarakalpana and neraval that 'the sahitya syllables must occupy a fixed position';
Is this that sacrosanct? - this used to be a TMT rule of neraval singing ( heard from some of his students).

Does this allow odukkals and tempo rubatos?

Lot of fun in Carnatic music will be gone if this is so strict. I would demand what could be called a mAtra integrity to the composition , but not an exactitude. If two people cannot execute gamakas on the frequency scale in the same way - depending on their felicity of their Sruti control or manodharmam - I would say two people should be free to move syllables on the time scale differently as well based on their felicity of laya control as long as a certain mAtra integrity ( to the original pATam) is maintained and tAla's kriyas are acknowledged for their presence subtly albeit not emphatically.

viSranti speaks not just through a gamaka, but also through a layaka!

So goes my principle of equivalence based on my GUT theory of carnatic music :!: :idea: :ugeek:
0 x

keerthi
Posts: 1309
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 14:10
x 1

#293 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by keerthi » 06 Jun 2016, 10:53

Is this that sacrosanct? - this used to be a TMT rule of neraval singing ( heard from some of his students).
Does this allow odukkals and tempo rubatos?
I think we must make a distinction between the shift of half an akSara or rarely one akSara that happens in rubato-s and a shift of 16 akSara-s, which happens when you sing a madhyAdi song in Adi tAlam 2 kaLai.

Personally, I am all for the rubato type sangatis that were sung by intrepid musicians like TRS, Voleti and Balasaraswathi. There are even some compositions wherein a traditional sangati incorporates such a shift - the TiruppAmburam version of Dorakuna for example, the penultimate sangati extends beyond the tAla Avarta to 2 akSaras of the next sangati, which has a 2 akSaram eDuppu instead of a sama eDuppu.

Such incremental shifts are also seen in top quality pallavi singing, where occasionally every sAhityAkSara is shifted by 1/2 akSara and the effect is thrilling. These shifts - both premeditated and manodharma - are of great aesthetic value and I find them beautiful and exciting, but surely it can't be compared to singing meru samAna or upacAramulanu once on the laghu and once on the two drutams. That is stretching the definition of odukkal.
0 x

shankarank
Posts: 2796
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
x 2
x 99

#294 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by shankarank » 25 Jul 2016, 07:06

Keerthi - understood - I was only referring to TMT's intransigence on syllable positions of compositions ( kopiShtan as SSI refers to him apparently).

A prevailing example will be rAga sudha rasa - whose pallavi lines make one think that it is 2-kaLai 3/4 eddupu ( as it spans 4 AvartAs in 1-kaLai) - only to be confused when AP and carNam come along. But I presume it is uniformly sung in 1-kaLai.

Would that be the template for others?
0 x

Suryasriram
Posts: 47
Joined: 11 Sep 2015, 22:27

#295 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by Suryasriram » 07 Aug 2016, 13:54

RaviSri wrote:As for "vAsudevayani", yes, this song was changed by GNB. The original version is different. I have learnt the original version which is a lot better than GNB's. The original version starts as 'PMPDNSS' and also is slower. An old group in Trichy, the Sadguru Samajam also used to sing the original way. I have heard that Vedavalli's version is also similar, i.e., different from GNB's.
Why did GNB change the tune of Vasudevayani? And is the other version available online now?

Speaking of changes how did musicians even get the IDEA to change the songs? And how was it that their changed tunes REPLACED the originals?
0 x

SrinathK
Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
x 100
x 336

#296 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by SrinathK » 08 Aug 2016, 07:23

RaviSri, this is not fair. :D ;) You promised to share your versions of these and other krithis that you learned from Brinda-Mukta. In the absence of Brinda Mukta and available recordings and for us rasikas far away from live sources, we have only you to turn to.
0 x

thanjavooran
Posts: 2536
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44
x 177
x 63

#297 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by thanjavooran » 08 Aug 2016, 08:14

Suryasriram wrote:
RaviSri wrote:As for "vAsudevayani", yes, this song was changed by GNB. The original version is different. I have learnt the original version which is a lot better than GNB's. The original version starts as 'PMPDNSS' and also is slower. An old group in Trichy, the Sadguru Samajam also used to sing the original way. I have heard that Vedavalli's version is also similar, i.e., different from GNB's.
Why did GNB change the tune of Vasudevayani? And is the other version available online now?

Speaking of changes how did musicians even get the IDEA to change the songs? And how was it that their changed tunes REPLACED the originals?
This was one of the points touched by T L Sharma without mentioning the name of the Artiste. He sung the original version too.
He performed few other krithis' old version also in his Lec Dem y'day at karnatic music forum program.
Thanjavooran
08 08 2016
0 x

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 491
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28
x 23
x 24

#298 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by bhakthim dehi » 08 Aug 2016, 16:08

Can you mention the songs which Sri Sharma sung yesterday, I mean the old versions.
Even Nayana Pillai, guru of Chittoor Subrahmanya Pillai has changed few songs. The present version of bantu reethi is attributed only to him.
0 x

thanjavooran
Posts: 2536
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44
x 177
x 63

#299 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by thanjavooran » 08 Aug 2016, 18:46

Shri bakthim dehi,
The following pieces were in his Demo. Songs were with different patantharam/ [ may be ] Old version
Thulasi jagajanani Saveri
NIthi chala sukhama Kalyani
Theradeeyaka Radha Gowlipantu

Thanjavooran
08 08 2016
0 x

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 491
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28
x 23
x 24

#300 Re: Thyagaraja (Krithis)

Post by bhakthim dehi » 08 Aug 2016, 20:24

Thank you Sri. Thanjavooran.
Nithi chala sukhama, by any chance, started with nishadam?
0 x

Post Reply