Mutthuswamy Dikshithar (Krithis)

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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vgvindan
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#251

Post by vgvindan » 20 Mar 2008, 09:13

vidya,
The Thevaram mentions as 'nambi nandi'
அடித்தொண்டன் நம்பிநந்தி
நீரால் திருவிளக் கிட்டமை
நீணா டறியுமன்றே.
http://www.shaivam.org/tamil/thirumurai/thiru04_102.htm ( 987) and
http://www.tamilnation.org/sathyam/east ... aram4b.pdf (p 106 : 987)

After posting, I saw your article on the subject .
What puzzles me is, how Dikshitar, who belonged to Thiruvarur, could be wrong about the shadow of the lamp - he would not have gone by any hearsay.
Last edited by vgvindan on 20 Mar 2008, 09:17, edited 1 time in total.
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vidya
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#252

Post by vidya » 20 Mar 2008, 15:25

So naminandi vs nambinandi is for prosodical exigencies a case of whether one needs a viLam or a mA in the middle.

I had assumed chAyA rahita in the literal sense of a lamp without a shadow. However it seems that it might refer to a sunbeam falling on a linga (a common architectural feature found in a lot of temples). So the interpretation does need some verification. In any case it could also just be a puranic allusion a bit of trivia that the composer has thrown in and does not have to be actually reflected in the current (then) sanctum in 1800s. Another possibility is that repeated building and rebuilding of temples do change a lot of the architectural features.
There was a discussion on this composition in the bhupalam-bauli thread I also saw someone mentioned renditions of this song - the ones I have heard of it is Shri.S.Rajam , B.Rajam Iyer and Kalpakam mami , Prof.SRJ. On a related note, I also wonder if there are any renditions of bhupali todi available ?
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ramakriya
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#253

Post by ramakriya » 01 Apr 2008, 05:04

I thought rasikas might find the following link useful. A collection of videos on YouTube with dikshitar tag :)

http://www.nme.com/video/search/dikshitar

-Ramakriya
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Sangeet Rasik
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#254

Post by Sangeet Rasik » 07 Apr 2008, 09:53

Thanks for the "quick-reference" link. I was listening to all the kritis and noticed that O.S. Tyagarajan is at it again:

http://www.nme.com/video/id/eMuq6jro-T0 ... /offset/40

For some reason he likes "nAgalingam" but promptly rejects "anAdilingam"....:rolleyes: Ironically, the musician's name is Tyagarajan and the raga is Shankarabharanam. From the opening seconds of the video it seems he was giving a lecture on the raga/composition before proceeding to make a hash of things.

Also odd that the accompanist U. Sivaraman continues with a straight face...he should have corrected Tyagarajan.

SR
Last edited by Sangeet Rasik on 07 Apr 2008, 10:02, edited 1 time in total.
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vasanthakokilam
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#255

Post by vasanthakokilam » 07 Apr 2008, 10:25

I assume you mean him not singing 'anAdilingam 'bhajEham' right.. he sings something like 'anAdilingam gajEham'

BTW, why pick on only OST ;)
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Suji Ram
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#256

Post by Suji Ram » 07 Apr 2008, 23:25

vasanthakokilam wrote:sings something like 'anAdilingam gajEham'

BTW, why pick on only OST ;)
I hear tyajEham... :(
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venkatpv
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#257

Post by venkatpv » 07 Apr 2008, 23:46

yes, OST sings it as tyajeham..

he was, perhaps, absent-mindedly reminded of other MD kritis that have the bhajeham-tyajeham scheme... what does anAdi lingam mean anyways?
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Sangeet Rasik
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#258

Post by Sangeet Rasik » 08 Apr 2008, 02:37

Yes indeed....the actual sahitya is "nAgalingam bhajEham anAdilingam bhajEham" ...."I hail the Nagalingam, which is without origin (anAdi)". In the puranas, Shiva is depicted in the form of anAdilingam stretching infinitely without origin or end. All "earthly" lingams are truncated representations of anAdilingam.

Tyagarajan sings "anAdilingam tyajEham" (i.e. "I reject Shiva"). Might have been understandable if he mispronounced it once, but he convincingly repeats it every time without any thought of what the meaning is. Automaton. Hardly an example for the shishyas - I "dinged" him before in 2006 for a faulty sahitya rendering, he seems to be carrying on anyway.

SR
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vasanthakokilam
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#259

Post by vasanthakokilam » 08 Apr 2008, 04:18

Thanks SR for the explanation. I am now even more curious why you are focussed on OST. I do not have any reason to defend OST, but mispronouncing sahitya is not that uncommon. Is OST any worse than others on the average? I really do not know since I can not tell if someone is singing it right or not, except may be some obvious goof's in Tamil compositions. ( As full disclosure about my acquaintance with OST's music: in this cases ignorance is bliss since I did enjoy OST's rendition of this song and in a past occasion, when I was listening to a song ( a different one ) rendered by 5 artists, I found OST's rendition had more depth than others. )
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arasi
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#260

Post by arasi » 08 Apr 2008, 08:59

Mispronunciation is not uncommon--even among those who speak the language. Old world words and expressions are difficult to understand. While rasikAs zero in on rAga lapses, they do not pay as much attention to the sAhitya. Is that a reason too for the lapses?

SR,
I don't know how good OST is with sanskrit (he knows his music very well!). Northerners have only a few lines to sing and manyof them don't pay particular attention to even the two lines of lyrics. Recently, I mentioned elsewhere that the great Bhimsen Joshi sang the word hari as taDi, gaDi etc! While I would have preferred a simple hari every time he repeated the line, I soon got lost in his majestic singing...
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vgvindan
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#261

Post by vgvindan » 08 Apr 2008, 13:48

While rasikAs zero in on rAga lapses, they do not pay as much attention to the sAhitya. Is that a reason too for the lapses?
sarasa sangIta sAhitya stana dvayayA
Dikshitar Kriti - sarasvatyA bhagavatyA - chAyA gauLa
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Sangeet Rasik
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#262

Post by Sangeet Rasik » 16 Apr 2008, 08:47

vasanthakokilam wrote:Thanks SR for the explanation. I am now even more curious why you are focussed on OST.
I am not "focused" on Tyagarajan nor "targeting" him for any reason. I watched about 20 of the videos in the link provided by Ramakriya. Tyagarajan's video was the only one which contained sahitya errors. Furthermore, I then recalled my previous experience of him. 2 and 2 is still 4 last time I checked.

SR
Last edited by Sangeet Rasik on 16 Apr 2008, 09:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Sangeet Rasik
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#263

Post by Sangeet Rasik » 16 Apr 2008, 09:02

arasi wrote:I don't know how good OST is with sanskrit (he knows his music very well!). Northerners have only a few lines to sing and manyof them don't pay particular attention to even the two lines of lyrics....
HM musicians are well known to be lip-lazy, not because they do not understand the sahitya of the composition but because the sahitya is not much important to them and to the composition. When it is important, they rise to the occasion. Amir Khan's enunciation of lyrics in classical khayal singing is practically unintelligible, but the same guy enunciates the lyrics crystal-clear when singing in classical-inspired Hindi movie compositions (from the 1950s and 1960s). Some other musicians are probably under influence of alcohol (no names to be taken here, but I could not resist after seeing your post - samajhdaar ko ishaara hi kaafi hai).

There are some notable exceptions, mainly the Hindu musicians/musicologists - such as DV Paluskar, Kumar Gandharva, KG Ginde, Ramashray Jha - who enunciate the lyrics clearly irrespective of the type of composition they are singing. This is because the best of the Hindu musicians and musicologists in India understand very well the intimate relation of sahitya and raga in our music.

CM musicans are not expected to be Sanskrit experts but are certainly expected to know the exact
meaning of the composition being performed. The instance in question is not a one-time mispronunciation resulting from a "heat-of-the-moment" absorption in the music. Tyagarajan solemnly and clearly pronounces "tyajeham" clearly each and every time. It is clear he has no idea what the sahitya means. I wonder if he taught it to his shishyas in the same manner.

SR
Last edited by Sangeet Rasik on 16 Apr 2008, 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
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rshankar
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#264

Post by rshankar » 17 May 2008, 00:50

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/05/16/stor ... 780300.htm
She played another rare kriti by Dikshitar, ‘Kusumaakara Shobhita’ in the rare raga, Kusumakaram, a janyam of Kosalam
Is there an audio version of this composition?
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Lakshman
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#265

Post by Lakshman » 17 May 2008, 01:07

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ramakriya
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#266

Post by ramakriya » 17 May 2008, 02:20

rshankar wrote:http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/05/16/stor ... 780300.htm
She played another rare kriti by Dikshitar, ‘Kusumaakara Shobhita’ in the rare raga, Kusumakaram, a janyam of Kosalam
Is there an audio version of this composition?
kusumAkara is the 71st asampUrNa mELa.

Thanks for the audio links!

-Ramakriya
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thenpaanan
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#267

Post by thenpaanan » 20 May 2008, 02:06

Sangeet Rasik wrote:HM musicians are well known to be lip-lazy, not because they do not understand the sahitya of the composition but because the sahitya is not much important to them and to the composition. When it is important, they rise to the occasion. Amir Khan's enunciation of lyrics in classical khayal singing is practically unintelligible, but the same guy enunciates the lyrics crystal-clear when singing in classical-inspired Hindi movie compositions (from the 1950s and 1960s).

[...]

CM musicans are not expected to be Sanskrit experts but are certainly expected to know the exact
meaning of the composition being performed. The instance in question is not a one-time mispronunciation resulting from a "heat-of-the-moment" absorption in the music. Tyagarajan solemnly and clearly pronounces "tyajeham" clearly each and every time. It is clear he has no idea what the sahitya means. I wonder if he taught it to his shishyas in the same manner.

SR
This is probably completely besides the point of this thread but I will say it anyway.

In Western music vocal training, one of the first techniques in good sound production is to loosen the lips to what we may consider extreme levels. This causes some sounds (some vowels but many consonants) to be distorted in sound but that is deemed acceptable in many cases. In specific cases such as opera this is not considered acceptable and singers are expected to pay special attention to diction and clarity of enunciation. Singers (such as the famous tenors) switch technique when singing operatic music.

I have just assumed all along that singers such as MMI and SSI who slurred were doing it for better sound production. :-)

I admit this theory does not explain the cases of singers clearly enunciating the wrong words rather than just slurring. ;-)

-Then Paanan
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vgvindan
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#268

Post by vgvindan » 20 May 2008, 09:03

MMI and SSI who slurred were doing it for better sound production.
The true meaning of 'lip-service' is that of MMI.
'AlaiyillAdu Urukku iluppaippU sakkarai'
That is the measure of CM Rasikas who have got accustomed to trash in the name of music.
Last edited by vgvindan on 20 May 2008, 11:09, edited 1 time in total.
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cksubra
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#269

Post by cksubra » 21 May 2008, 09:04

for rshankar--- Vijayalakshmy Subramaniam has rendered the song 'Kusumakara shobhita' in her book 'Apoorva kriti manjari'-- a compilation of 20 rare songs of the trinity.
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rshankar
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#270

Post by rshankar » 21 May 2008, 18:20

Thanks cksubra...I like her style of rendering.
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vgvindan
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#271

Post by vgvindan » 26 May 2008, 10:25

Please refer to MD kRti 'kRshNAnanda mukunda murArE' - rAga gauLipantu.
There is an old film song beginning with the same words, but as far as I can recollect, the body of the film song is different.
Can someone throw more light on this?
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gangar
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#272

Post by gangar » 26 May 2008, 10:51

vgvindan wrote:Please refer to MD kRti 'kRshNAnanda mukunda murArE' - rAga gauLipantu.
There is an old film song beginning with the same words, but as far as I can recollect, the body of the film song is different.
Can someone throw more light on this?
i think it is "krishna mukunda murarae" by papanasam sivan??
Last edited by gangar on 26 May 2008, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
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vgvindan
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#273

Post by vgvindan » 09 Jun 2008, 22:08

In the kRti 'tyAgarAja mahadhvajArOha' rAga Sri, it is mentioned as 'kRshNa gandha dharaNaM'.

Please refer to http://tamilartsacademy.com/journals/vo ... dance.html to know about 'kRshNa gandha' (black sandal-agaru paste) festival.
Last edited by vgvindan on 09 Jun 2008, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.
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vgvindan
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#274

Post by vgvindan » 22 Jun 2008, 11:43

In the kRti 'nIlOtpalAmbikayA' - rAga kannaDa gauLa, MD states 'hallISa lAsya santushTayA'.
This same epithet occurs in lalitA triSati also.

This dance form 'hallISa (हल्लीश)' seems to be folk dance of Chamba - please refer to - http://books.google.com/books?id=Gz4ZAx ... #PPA155,M1

This dance form also seems to be part of 'rAslIla' - http://www.bvml.org/SRG/SriUjjvalaNilamani.html#CH10
Any further inputs?
Last edited by vgvindan on 22 Jun 2008, 11:46, edited 1 time in total.
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vgvindan
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#275

Post by vgvindan » 22 Jun 2008, 18:52

A further search for 'hallISa lAsya' provided the following information.

Sanskrit Dictionary -
1 hallIza m. one of the eighteen Uparu1palras or minor dramatic entertainments (described as a piece in one act , consisting chiefly of singing and dancing by one male and 7 , 8 , or Io female performers ; perhaps a kind of ballet) Sa1h. ; n. a circular dance (performed by women under the direction of a man) Ka1vya7d.
http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche

Tamil Dictionary -
நின்றாடல் -6- அல்லியம், கொடி கொட்டி, குடை, குடம், பாண்டரங்கம், மல்,என்னை "அல்லியங்கொட்டி குடைகுடம் பாண்டரங்க ( niṉṟāṭal -6- அல்லியம், koṭi கொட்டி, kuṭai, குடம், பாண்டரங்கம், mal,என்னை "alliyangkoṭṭi குடைகுடம் பாண்டரங்க ) மல்லுடனின்றுடலாறு" என்றாராகலின்.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadi ... splay=utf8
Eleven kinds of dances - koDukoTTi, pANDrangaM, alliyattogudi, mallADal, tuDiyADal, kuDaiyADal, kuDakkUttu, pEyADal, marakkAl ADal, pAvai, kaDaiyaM
http://www.varalaaru.com/Default.asp?articleid=536
(Translated from Tamil)
tiruvArUr - name of Lord vanmIga nAdar - Consort - alliyankOdaiyammai
சுவாமிபெயர் - வன்மீகநாதர், தேவியார் - அல்லியங்கோதையம்மை
Therefore, it appears that 'hallISa' is a derivative of 'alliyam'.
Last edited by vgvindan on 22 Jun 2008, 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
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