Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
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The krithi if I remember goes like this:
Pallavi
nee jesina vichitramu evaru jeyuthura O parama sambava sri pranatharthihara
Anupallavi
raja rajeswara nee rajyamulalo nay jeyu bani ledha O deva deva
Charanam
ashtakshara mulo antargradhamu ga vishnu chittamuna vihasinchina sri
ashtalakshmiki anugahamu seya ledha sishta thyaga raju kashtamu ganama
Can anybody tell me the composer of this krithi.
Pallavi
nee jesina vichitramu evaru jeyuthura O parama sambava sri pranatharthihara
Anupallavi
raja rajeswara nee rajyamulalo nay jeyu bani ledha O deva deva
Charanam
ashtakshara mulo antargradhamu ga vishnu chittamuna vihasinchina sri
ashtalakshmiki anugahamu seya ledha sishta thyaga raju kashtamu ganama
Can anybody tell me the composer of this krithi.
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This is a kriti by tyAgarAja in rAg neelaMbari and miSracApu tAL.annapoorne wrote:The krithi if I remember goes like this:
Pallavi
nee jesina vichitramu evaru jeyuthura O parama sambava sri pranatharthihara
Anupallavi
raja rajeswara nee rajyamulalo nay jeyu bani ledha O deva deva
Charanam
ashtakshara mulo antargradhamu ga vishnu chittamuna vihasinchina sri
ashtalakshmiki anugahamu seya ledha sishta thyaga raju kashtamu ganama
Can anybody tell me the composer of this krithi.
The lyric follows.
P.
nI cEyu vicitramulu evaru cEyuduru
O praNatArtiharA !
A.P.
rAjarAjESwarA nI rAjyamulalO
nE jEyu pani ledA O dEva dEva !
C.
ashTakSharamulalO aMtargatamuga
vishNucittamuna vihariMcina Sri
ashTalakShmiki yanugrahamu jeyalEdA
SishTa tyAgarAju kashTamu ghanamA !
Source: tyAgarAja keertanalu published by by TTD
Regards
Vimala
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vgvindan & fellow posters, I searched around and here's an article on that Anandabhairavi kriti of tyAgarAja: http://guruvayoorappanvizag.20m.com/whats_new.html
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Dear Friends!
I was for the hundredth time listening to the Nalinakanti kriti, manavyalakinca.
I got the following doubts.
1) If manavi and Alakinca or both Sanskrit words sandhi would result in manavyAlakinca (Like in ati=Asa= atyasa)
Alakinca is a Telugu word or is it?
It should have been manaviyAlakinca or manavAlakinca(?)
How is it manvyalakinca?
2) The sound of c in manavyalakinca is different from all the other CakArams in the song.
rAmacandruni, gaganacArulai, etc...
The pallavi cakAram is repeated so many times with wrong pronounciation.
Why is it so?
Many people do not care about the sound variation in the chakaram. Why?
Are not the sounds in candamAma and cakravarti different?
3) Interestingly kalpana swaras in this song are sung for the pallavi itself.
After every set the ending is either manvyAlakim......., or manvyAlakincarA.....
It should be the pallavi in it's entirity everytime or else the meaning will be lost.
Kindly enlighten me in this regard.
I was for the hundredth time listening to the Nalinakanti kriti, manavyalakinca.
I got the following doubts.
1) If manavi and Alakinca or both Sanskrit words sandhi would result in manavyAlakinca (Like in ati=Asa= atyasa)
Alakinca is a Telugu word or is it?
It should have been manaviyAlakinca or manavAlakinca(?)
How is it manvyalakinca?
2) The sound of c in manavyalakinca is different from all the other CakArams in the song.
rAmacandruni, gaganacArulai, etc...
The pallavi cakAram is repeated so many times with wrong pronounciation.
Why is it so?
Many people do not care about the sound variation in the chakaram. Why?
Are not the sounds in candamAma and cakravarti different?
3) Interestingly kalpana swaras in this song are sung for the pallavi itself.
After every set the ending is either manvyAlakim......., or manvyAlakincarA.....
It should be the pallavi in it's entirity everytime or else the meaning will be lost.
Kindly enlighten me in this regard.
Last edited by vijayagopal on 12 May 2007, 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
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tyAgarAja kriti - paluku kaNDa cakkera - rAga navarasa kannaDa
The pallavi of this kRti is as under -
paluku kaNDa cakkeranu gErunE panatulAra jUDarE
Meaning
(The words spoken by the Lord would surpass the sweetness of sugar candy; behold, O Maidens!)
The words (paluku) (spoken by the Lord) would surpass (gErunE) (literally ridicule) the (sweetness of) sugar (cakkeranu) candy (kaNDa); behold (jUDarE), O Maidens (paNatulAra)!
paNatulAra – This is how it is given in all the books. In the book of TKG, the meaning derived is ‘maids’ and in the book of TSV/AKG, ‘friends’. However, as per telugu dictionary, ‘paNati’ does not have any such meaning.
Therefore, assuming the meaning is correct, a suitable word for ‘woman’ or similar words is needed here. Looking purely from rhyme point of view, words starting with ‘p’ seems to be appropriate. The nearest word ‘woman’ beginning with 'p' is ‘polati’; accordingly, the word could be polatulAra.
Alternatively, assuming the word ‘paNatulAra’ is correct, then the meaning derived ‘woman’ seems to be wrong. The telugu word ‘paNitamu’ means ‘laid as wager’. It is not clear whether a ‘wager’ can be called ‘paNituDu’ or ‘paNatuDu’. If this is correct, then the only meaning that could be assigned is ‘O wagers’. Considering the previous word ‘gErunE’ which is a comparison, is zrI tyAgarAja, jocularly asking wagers to bet on his statement that the ‘words of zrI rAma beats the sugar candy in sweetness’?. The word ‘jUDarE’, in its colloquial sense, in the present context, could be taken as an invitation for a challenge.
Any suggestions ???
The pallavi of this kRti is as under -
paluku kaNDa cakkeranu gErunE panatulAra jUDarE
Meaning
(The words spoken by the Lord would surpass the sweetness of sugar candy; behold, O Maidens!)
The words (paluku) (spoken by the Lord) would surpass (gErunE) (literally ridicule) the (sweetness of) sugar (cakkeranu) candy (kaNDa); behold (jUDarE), O Maidens (paNatulAra)!
paNatulAra – This is how it is given in all the books. In the book of TKG, the meaning derived is ‘maids’ and in the book of TSV/AKG, ‘friends’. However, as per telugu dictionary, ‘paNati’ does not have any such meaning.
Therefore, assuming the meaning is correct, a suitable word for ‘woman’ or similar words is needed here. Looking purely from rhyme point of view, words starting with ‘p’ seems to be appropriate. The nearest word ‘woman’ beginning with 'p' is ‘polati’; accordingly, the word could be polatulAra.
Alternatively, assuming the word ‘paNatulAra’ is correct, then the meaning derived ‘woman’ seems to be wrong. The telugu word ‘paNitamu’ means ‘laid as wager’. It is not clear whether a ‘wager’ can be called ‘paNituDu’ or ‘paNatuDu’. If this is correct, then the only meaning that could be assigned is ‘O wagers’. Considering the previous word ‘gErunE’ which is a comparison, is zrI tyAgarAja, jocularly asking wagers to bet on his statement that the ‘words of zrI rAma beats the sugar candy in sweetness’?. The word ‘jUDarE’, in its colloquial sense, in the present context, could be taken as an invitation for a challenge.
Any suggestions ???
Last edited by vgvindan on 25 Jul 2007, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Dear Friends,
It is a long time since I came to the forum.
Let me add my two cents to the discussion.
In Telugu "Padathi" means a young lady.
I heard my mother sing some songs where Da is replaced by Na.
In that case Padathi becomes PaNathi.
Similarly Pasidi (Gold) in her songs became PasaNi.
In Telangana many people replace Na for Da in many words.
Nadumu is the midriff.
They call it naNumu while talking.
Kadama is the left out or ensuing.
It becomes KaNuma.
I can quote many such words.
Perhaps similarly Tyagaraja called a Padathi as paNati and addressed them paNatulara
Mind you it is not na but Na
It is a long time since I came to the forum.
Let me add my two cents to the discussion.
In Telugu "Padathi" means a young lady.
I heard my mother sing some songs where Da is replaced by Na.
In that case Padathi becomes PaNathi.
Similarly Pasidi (Gold) in her songs became PasaNi.
In Telangana many people replace Na for Da in many words.
Nadumu is the midriff.
They call it naNumu while talking.
Kadama is the left out or ensuing.
It becomes KaNuma.
I can quote many such words.
Perhaps similarly Tyagaraja called a Padathi as paNati and addressed them paNatulara
Mind you it is not na but Na
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Ok, vgvindan Sir: another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FO4Qkx-KaU . It bears the tyAgarAja mudra but this must be a later discovery. Wondered if anyone had the lyrics to this kr.ti.
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Sri S Govindaswamy and I are interacting much thru mails - a name coincidence? - regarding Thyagaraja Kritis. He analyses my posts regularly and scans them through a 'microscope' pointing out even minior typing errors. I am indeed very grateful to his inputs and suggestions because of which I could correct many errors in my posts.
This particular query - given above - was raised by him with me also. As I could not satisfactorily answer him, he has raised it in the forum. May I venture to amplify his doubt? He wants to know whether Sri Thyagaraja has composed any Ragamalika of 100 rAgas.
As far my knowledge goes, there is not even a single rAgamAlika in Thyagaraja Kritis. People knowledgeable in music may kindly respond.
This particular query - given above - was raised by him with me also. As I could not satisfactorily answer him, he has raised it in the forum. May I venture to amplify his doubt? He wants to know whether Sri Thyagaraja has composed any Ragamalika of 100 rAgas.
As far my knowledge goes, there is not even a single rAgamAlika in Thyagaraja Kritis. People knowledgeable in music may kindly respond.
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I completely agree that the lyrics are rama nannu brova ravemako lokaabhi (raama)....but in my humble viewpoint there is nothing wrong in ending with rama nannu brovara because there might be a reason tyagarajar split ra-vemako so blatantly....Its like singing in an accusing tone Oh rama, why dont you come and protect me and ending pleadingly with please come and protect me....It seems to me like one of those geniuses of tyagarajar where he can link abhi-rama nannu brovara. Lokabhi as such is not right because it doesnt have meaning ...so u cannot stop there and have to sing the first line again...but brovara...does end beautifully with a meaning of its own. Of course, thats no excuse to not knowing the primary tone of the kriti and mistaking it for the conclusive tone...
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ksl,
Singing as 'rAma nannu brOvarA' may not be wrong; but then singing 'rAvEmakO' as 'vEmakO' or twisting the word as 'prEmatO' amounts to abuse. Who substituted this word 'prEmatO'?
It is this mentality of taking liberties with the composers - where lyrics become mere words to express musical excellence and to undermine the bhAva and the purport is to be deprecated - musicians are only exhibiting their talents at the cost of the composers - and then, probably expiate their sins by conducting ArAdhanas.
Why sing these compositions at all? If music only matters, then let them make their own pallavis and sing it in whatever manner they feel like.
Singing as 'rAma nannu brOvarA' may not be wrong; but then singing 'rAvEmakO' as 'vEmakO' or twisting the word as 'prEmatO' amounts to abuse. Who substituted this word 'prEmatO'?
It is this mentality of taking liberties with the composers - where lyrics become mere words to express musical excellence and to undermine the bhAva and the purport is to be deprecated - musicians are only exhibiting their talents at the cost of the composers - and then, probably expiate their sins by conducting ArAdhanas.
Why sing these compositions at all? If music only matters, then let them make their own pallavis and sing it in whatever manner they feel like.
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vgvindan sir, i am a big fan of yours...I read just a couple of ur posts.....ninga vaartaigalukku kudukura madhippu andha vaarataigalukku kadatchi romba naal aairkum....tyagaraja keertanaigal....tamil ilakkiyam....i wish we could email you in person....Its heartening to know someone so full of knowledge and care in bhava...i have no words...
At the same time i think people are ignorant and careless....its not their intention to mar great compositions....in fact one of my friend claims his tyagaraja kriti book says premato...I completely share your anguish in the matter....but i think people like you who have this gift of knowing and appreciating not only the music but also the bhava behind these compositions should enlighten other people about whats going wrong....people with all humility will accept their mistakes....
I am not a singer...but am a dancer...so i care about meanings...they mean the world to me...but at the same time i dont have the ability to distinguish a misplaced swara...similarly a singer may lack the ability to recognise a missing akshara and therefore the meaning...that doesnt make both of us arrogant...its ignorance...anyone worth his art would like to learn more....and you are doing great by letting people know whats right...
At the same time i think people are ignorant and careless....its not their intention to mar great compositions....in fact one of my friend claims his tyagaraja kriti book says premato...I completely share your anguish in the matter....but i think people like you who have this gift of knowing and appreciating not only the music but also the bhava behind these compositions should enlighten other people about whats going wrong....people with all humility will accept their mistakes....
I am not a singer...but am a dancer...so i care about meanings...they mean the world to me...but at the same time i dont have the ability to distinguish a misplaced swara...similarly a singer may lack the ability to recognise a missing akshara and therefore the meaning...that doesnt make both of us arrogant...its ignorance...anyone worth his art would like to learn more....and you are doing great by letting people know whats right...
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
I am reviving this topic after almost three years.
Please refer to kRti 'kshINamai' - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html This kRti has been earlier discussed in this thread.
keerthi said on 22 Feb 2011 -
I had forgotten to mention in my response that the word 'gir' is given in brackets in all the books. Therefore, I assume that the original version of this kRti did not contain this word.
Similar instances of words being given in brackets are -
(1) inta bhAgyamani - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(2) valla kAdanaka - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(3) SrI raghu kulamandu - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... mandu.html
(4) AragimpavE - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -todi.html
(5) SrI raghu vara - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... uvara.html
(6) cUtAmu rArE (kApi) - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... aeyee.html
(7) toli janmamuna - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(8) kAsiccEdE - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(9) vENu gAna - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(10) nata jana - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html- It is doubtful whether this kRti has been composed by SrI tyAgarAja
In all the above mentioned cases, the words given in brackets seem to be superfluous - including the kRti under discussion 'kshINamai'.
I invite views.
Please refer to kRti 'kshINamai' - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html This kRti has been earlier discussed in this thread.
keerthi said on 22 Feb 2011 -
In response I said -tyAgarAja has employed padacchEda tacitly, by sometimes using an atita eduppu, for prAsa concordance [gIr-vANa in kSINamai etc.] and in such places force-fitting the word into an Avarta to avoid padacchEda, while sacrificing the prAsa seems like a bad bargain.
In response keerthi said -in my opinion, there is no need for the word 'gir' at all. Even with 'vANa' the context is sufficiently explained. Therefore, your assumption this word 'gir' was thrust, does not seem to be correct unless there is some valid reason - musically
While you might opine that gIr- isn't required, and the word is complete with vAna , there must be corroboration to be found from the walajapet notebooks.
I had forgotten to mention in my response that the word 'gir' is given in brackets in all the books. Therefore, I assume that the original version of this kRti did not contain this word.
Similar instances of words being given in brackets are -
(1) inta bhAgyamani - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(2) valla kAdanaka - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(3) SrI raghu kulamandu - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... mandu.html
(4) AragimpavE - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -todi.html
(5) SrI raghu vara - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... uvara.html
(6) cUtAmu rArE (kApi) - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... aeyee.html
(7) toli janmamuna - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(8) kAsiccEdE - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(9) vENu gAna - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
(10) nata jana - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html- It is doubtful whether this kRti has been composed by SrI tyAgarAja
In all the above mentioned cases, the words given in brackets seem to be superfluous - including the kRti under discussion 'kshINamai'.
I invite views.
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
The use of brackets in the instances I mention below, is not to indicate an interpolation, but to indicate that the bracketed part fits into the previuos tAla Avarta.
The following are few examples of tyAgarAja using a split word for the sake of prAsa fidelity. swati tirunal's treatise 'Muhana-prAsa-antya-prAsa-vyavastha' supposedly uses the term 'antarukti' for this phenomenon.
It is quite clear that the bracketed parts are essential to the meaningfulness of the lines in these cases.
1. kSINamai tirugA... [gIr]-vANa-nATaka...
2. AragimpavE... [raghu]-vIra! janakajA-....
3. valla kAdanaka..[nI]valla nATi bhakta..
4. vENugAnalOluni... [ali]-vENulella
5. cUtAmu rArE..[puru]-hUtAdulaku..
6. bhaktuni cAritramu.. [A]-saktilEka...
This is a non-exhaustive list. We could try and compile a more comprehensive one.
Govindan sir, I have only chosen songs where the split happens right at the beginning of an Avarta. There must be many examples where it happens midway.
The following are few examples of tyAgarAja using a split word for the sake of prAsa fidelity. swati tirunal's treatise 'Muhana-prAsa-antya-prAsa-vyavastha' supposedly uses the term 'antarukti' for this phenomenon.
It is quite clear that the bracketed parts are essential to the meaningfulness of the lines in these cases.
1. kSINamai tirugA... [gIr]-vANa-nATaka...
2. AragimpavE... [raghu]-vIra! janakajA-....
3. valla kAdanaka..[nI]valla nATi bhakta..
4. vENugAnalOluni... [ali]-vENulella
5. cUtAmu rArE..[puru]-hUtAdulaku..
6. bhaktuni cAritramu.. [A]-saktilEka...
This is a non-exhaustive list. We could try and compile a more comprehensive one.
Govindan sir, I have only chosen songs where the split happens right at the beginning of an Avarta. There must be many examples where it happens midway.
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
keerthi,
In regard to kRti 'bhaktuni cAritramu', I request you to kindly read the notes wherein I have mentioned that 'Asakti' does not seem to be a correct word.
Kindly clarify whether all these kRtis can be sung properly without the words given in the brackets or not. If the words given in the brackets is an essential musical component, without which, the kRti cannot be sung properly, then interpolation aspect can be discussed.
In regard to kRti 'bhaktuni cAritramu', I request you to kindly read the notes wherein I have mentioned that 'Asakti' does not seem to be a correct word.
Kindly clarify whether all these kRtis can be sung properly without the words given in the brackets or not. If the words given in the brackets is an essential musical component, without which, the kRti cannot be sung properly, then interpolation aspect can be discussed.
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
Keerthi,
Will [raghu] nandanA of munduvenuka come in this list too?
Will [raghu] nandanA of munduvenuka come in this list too?
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
darSanamu sEya nA taramA...[parA]marSinci nIvu nanu mannincavalenu (Siva) is another example.
srikant, I hesitate to use the raghu-nandana example, because it is not from the beginning of a unit [p, ap or caranam]. It is at the end of half of the ap, and overflows to the next Avarta. The examples of this kind are too numerous to list.
The anupallavi of mundu venuka begins on endu gAna, with an eduppu similar to the pallavi, and hence it doesn't belong to the set.
Govindan sir,
I am convinced that all these examples can't be sung by leaving out the parenthesis, without compromising the lyrical and musical content of the song.
Asakti, in the bEgaDa song should be taken as viShayAsakti, or attachment to wordly/ sensory pleasures. Hence Asakti-lEka is disinterested, in the sense of 'taTastha' or unattached.
srikant, I hesitate to use the raghu-nandana example, because it is not from the beginning of a unit [p, ap or caranam]. It is at the end of half of the ap, and overflows to the next Avarta. The examples of this kind are too numerous to list.
The anupallavi of mundu venuka begins on endu gAna, with an eduppu similar to the pallavi, and hence it doesn't belong to the set.
Govindan sir,
I am convinced that all these examples can't be sung by leaving out the parenthesis, without compromising the lyrical and musical content of the song.
Asakti, in the bEgaDa song should be taken as viShayAsakti, or attachment to wordly/ sensory pleasures. Hence Asakti-lEka is disinterested, in the sense of 'taTastha' or unattached.
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
keerthi,
Fair enough.
I will update all the kRtis, mentioned by You, with suitable remarks ie., 'the bracketed portions belong to previous tALa Avarti'. This is notwithstanding the fact that I am of the opinion that 'Asakti' is used to mean 'attachment' in the higher sense like 'kAntAsakti' etc (the eleven forms forms anurAga) and not lower sense of 'vishya'.
nArada bhakti sUtrANi -
guNa mAhAtmyAsakti-rUpAsakti-pUjAsakti-smaraNAsakti-dAsyAsakti-sakhyAsakti-vAtsalyAsakti-kAntAsakti-Atma nivEdanAsakti-tanmayatAsakti-parama virahAsakti rUpA EkadhA api EkAdaSadhA bhavati || 81 ||
Fair enough.
I will update all the kRtis, mentioned by You, with suitable remarks ie., 'the bracketed portions belong to previous tALa Avarti'. This is notwithstanding the fact that I am of the opinion that 'Asakti' is used to mean 'attachment' in the higher sense like 'kAntAsakti' etc (the eleven forms forms anurAga) and not lower sense of 'vishya'.
nArada bhakti sUtrANi -
guNa mAhAtmyAsakti-rUpAsakti-pUjAsakti-smaraNAsakti-dAsyAsakti-sakhyAsakti-vAtsalyAsakti-kAntAsakti-Atma nivEdanAsakti-tanmayatAsakti-parama virahAsakti rUpA EkadhA api EkAdaSadhA bhavati || 81 ||
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
keerthi,
I have updated all the kRtis referred by you.
Thanks for the input.
I have updated all the kRtis referred by you.
Thanks for the input.
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Re: Thyagaraja krithis with corrupted lyrics
keerthi,
In regard to the meaning of 'Asakti, please refer to kRti 'nIvE kanneDa' - rAga saurAshTraM updated today - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
The only assumption I can make is that tyAgarAja has used this word 'Asakti' in two diametrically opposite meanings in two different kRtis. I do not know how to reconcile this.
In regard to the meaning of 'Asakti, please refer to kRti 'nIvE kanneDa' - rAga saurAshTraM updated today - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html
The only assumption I can make is that tyAgarAja has used this word 'Asakti' in two diametrically opposite meanings in two different kRtis. I do not know how to reconcile this.