I have also heard a lot about TNR's pride but there is no question about his being the Nadaswara Chakravathy..
When you get to it, I would love to hear whatever you know about the tragic story of NCV..the kAmAtchy..
MS, NCV and related artistes
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
MS, NCV and related artistes
Thanks for the nice anecdote! I guess ARI-MKT wiould have been unbeatable
I have also heard a lot about TNR's pride but there is no question about his being the Nadaswara Chakravathy..
When you get to it, I would love to hear whatever you know about the tragic story of NCV..the kAmAtchy..
I have also heard a lot about TNR's pride but there is no question about his being the Nadaswara Chakravathy..
When you get to it, I would love to hear whatever you know about the tragic story of NCV..the kAmAtchy..
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: MKT
CMLover : Re; NCV story--a little close and personal -- involves too many persons living and known to me.Will take it up in an one-to-one context.She was a wonderful lady-she and MS maintained very cordial relations despite stories in those days of MS being scared of NCV--she had a great voice but lacked the depth of Gnanam and the rigorous discipline that MS had been inculcated with.Towards NCV's dying days,my mother told me that MS will make a trip to Coimbatore(I believe she died there or perhaps was ailing in CBE of Tuberculosis--I am not sure where she died) and share with my mother how pitiable NCV's condition was after all the meteoric rise that NCV had in the early forties and empathised with her condition--ill-fated wrong choices made at the wrong moments,the lack of street-smartness. One of MS's letters refers to the visit she made ,and laments WHY such a nice lady was subject to so much pain.. Still if there are forumites who are from Coimbatore and whose ancestors lived there in the late Thirties and forties(in the Ramnagar--originally known as Brahmin Extension) they may be able to throw light on NCV's last days.
Sorry for the digression from the MKT thread.
I may venture a general observation on this famous female celebrity married to a quasi-celebrity combos.==MLV/Vikatam Krishnamurthy,DKP-Isvaran,NCV-Sachi.
The success is dependent on the male consort being a good manager,firm in areas where the celebrity is weak or indifferent or submissive(DKP) and the capacity to manage the household and shield the celebrity from all sorts of hangers-on,useless sycophants etc etc. MLV was an extraordinarily fine and kind lady compassionate to the core,supremely confident of her prowess but after her parents' death(both of them were very protective and thrifty managing her money) her hubby--an extraordinarily nice man gracious and pleasant person simply could not handle the responsibility of managing the household finances(MLV earned quite a bit but did not have the time to "husband" her resources as well as she earned) towards her end I am told she ran into lots of financial difficulties but to her credit never even blamed anybody nor did she lament about her predicament--as forumites may know, MLV's last days with cancer were very painful and pitiable(when she visited NY in the late eighties--she presided over my daughter's arangetram in NY--my parents were also visiting us at that time from madras--MLV loved my Mom's vathakuzhambu--MLV with her motherly instinct asked me if I could offer proper career advice to her son--a docile respectful lad--she would not use her enormous influence in Chennai to land whatever lucrative opportunities she desired for her children but she was "Gauravam incarnate" when it came to seeking personal favors.She has been a giver more than a taker all thro her life--with friends she would not hesitate to lay down her life if necessary--no trace of envy,dislike or any negative tendencies. Adverse criticism of her music she could dismiss with an aplomb without trying to get back at the critic.Sometimes the ways of God and men are inscrutable and WHY such a gracious lady suffered physically and emotionally(especially in her last days with her daughter's marital life troubled) one might wonder.
DKP/Isvaran--Isvaran Mama is a street-smart,perceptive and decisive person and lever let his heart rule over his head on matters concerning DKP's career.DKP to her credit (like MS) recognized this strength leaned on him for support at the appropriate times,focussed solely on her art,(what a repertoire and what teachers--Ambi Dikshithar,TLvenkatrama Iyer,Papanasam SivanAriyakudi --all with active encouragement and support from her hubby without interference).Besides ,in the fifties, when her career was in full bloom, the household was run by her Mother-in-law and it was a delight to watch her relate to her MIL--who was no shrinking violet I am told!!!--nary an altercation--the old lady my mother used to tell me was quite an authoritative one!!--Again this was another perfect "match". Even today Isvaran Mama is a s sharp as ever and gives his Gardener the fits I am told!!!
In the case of NCV,that strong consort was lacking however well-meant he may have been in his intentions. Stories that he exploited her are not TRUE at all!! In fact he had been a victim in the treacherous world of film production in those days.
looking back I really thank my stars that I had so many opportunities to watch most of them at close quarters separated from their musical accomplishments and that too over the years with a chance to reflect upon opinions hastily made when you are young and impulsive but later on as we mellow,recognize what celebrities go thru in their day-to-day life with a fleeting fame and yet maintain their composure,civility and dignity. perhaps this is WHY I find myself in a posiiton today where I can say I never met a person whom I did not like or admire in the musical world.
Sorry for the digression from the MKT thread.
I may venture a general observation on this famous female celebrity married to a quasi-celebrity combos.==MLV/Vikatam Krishnamurthy,DKP-Isvaran,NCV-Sachi.
The success is dependent on the male consort being a good manager,firm in areas where the celebrity is weak or indifferent or submissive(DKP) and the capacity to manage the household and shield the celebrity from all sorts of hangers-on,useless sycophants etc etc. MLV was an extraordinarily fine and kind lady compassionate to the core,supremely confident of her prowess but after her parents' death(both of them were very protective and thrifty managing her money) her hubby--an extraordinarily nice man gracious and pleasant person simply could not handle the responsibility of managing the household finances(MLV earned quite a bit but did not have the time to "husband" her resources as well as she earned) towards her end I am told she ran into lots of financial difficulties but to her credit never even blamed anybody nor did she lament about her predicament--as forumites may know, MLV's last days with cancer were very painful and pitiable(when she visited NY in the late eighties--she presided over my daughter's arangetram in NY--my parents were also visiting us at that time from madras--MLV loved my Mom's vathakuzhambu--MLV with her motherly instinct asked me if I could offer proper career advice to her son--a docile respectful lad--she would not use her enormous influence in Chennai to land whatever lucrative opportunities she desired for her children but she was "Gauravam incarnate" when it came to seeking personal favors.She has been a giver more than a taker all thro her life--with friends she would not hesitate to lay down her life if necessary--no trace of envy,dislike or any negative tendencies. Adverse criticism of her music she could dismiss with an aplomb without trying to get back at the critic.Sometimes the ways of God and men are inscrutable and WHY such a gracious lady suffered physically and emotionally(especially in her last days with her daughter's marital life troubled) one might wonder.
DKP/Isvaran--Isvaran Mama is a street-smart,perceptive and decisive person and lever let his heart rule over his head on matters concerning DKP's career.DKP to her credit (like MS) recognized this strength leaned on him for support at the appropriate times,focussed solely on her art,(what a repertoire and what teachers--Ambi Dikshithar,TLvenkatrama Iyer,Papanasam SivanAriyakudi --all with active encouragement and support from her hubby without interference).Besides ,in the fifties, when her career was in full bloom, the household was run by her Mother-in-law and it was a delight to watch her relate to her MIL--who was no shrinking violet I am told!!!--nary an altercation--the old lady my mother used to tell me was quite an authoritative one!!--Again this was another perfect "match". Even today Isvaran Mama is a s sharp as ever and gives his Gardener the fits I am told!!!
In the case of NCV,that strong consort was lacking however well-meant he may have been in his intentions. Stories that he exploited her are not TRUE at all!! In fact he had been a victim in the treacherous world of film production in those days.
looking back I really thank my stars that I had so many opportunities to watch most of them at close quarters separated from their musical accomplishments and that too over the years with a chance to reflect upon opinions hastily made when you are young and impulsive but later on as we mellow,recognize what celebrities go thru in their day-to-day life with a fleeting fame and yet maintain their composure,civility and dignity. perhaps this is WHY I find myself in a posiiton today where I can say I never met a person whom I did not like or admire in the musical world.
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Re: MKT
MKR
You are a fascinating Historian. The story of the Women Trinity is a stellar side of the evolution of CM in the 20th century. Your succint portrayal of the role the men played shows how important the 'ardhanara' is for success and survival. You should write the monograph sometime since your value judgements are equally valid. My heart was much closer to NCV in those days till MLV came into the picture to replace her. I adored DKP for her patriotic songs which I used to sing in her fashion during the Freedom Struggle. After Meera MS became an Icon all over India. But then we never knew the role played by TS until you revealed some of the details. In fact he completed her life. It may be partially true for DKP. But the 'bitter half' soured the lives of the others.
There's a divinity that shapes our lives rough hew them how we will!
You are a fascinating Historian. The story of the Women Trinity is a stellar side of the evolution of CM in the 20th century. Your succint portrayal of the role the men played shows how important the 'ardhanara' is for success and survival. You should write the monograph sometime since your value judgements are equally valid. My heart was much closer to NCV in those days till MLV came into the picture to replace her. I adored DKP for her patriotic songs which I used to sing in her fashion during the Freedom Struggle. After Meera MS became an Icon all over India. But then we never knew the role played by TS until you revealed some of the details. In fact he completed her life. It may be partially true for DKP. But the 'bitter half' soured the lives of the others.
There's a divinity that shapes our lives rough hew them how we will!
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: MKT
CMLover; Thanks for your kind words.I loved the tailpiece of your post--the quotation from the Bard of Avon!!!
Although I have not had a chance to move closely with the ladies currently dominating the CM music scene--Sudha/Jayashree/Sowmya/Nithyashree/Aruna/Gayathri V et al--I would like to see younger forumites who may have had opportunities to watch and perhaps "mingle" with them at close quarters --- comment on the dynamics of the artistes relationship with their spouses and the influence of the latter on the artistes/ and the extent of the influence in their careers.
ANY TAKERS?
. My fleeting observation has been that they are all incredibly street-smart ,do not let their hair down easily in public,watch carefully what they say in public--especially when their sycophants 'drool" over them--so much that their public comments/views when interviewed seems unduly rehearsed and parsed(atleast in my opinion!!). Part of the reason is also because of the multiple media outlets thirsting for content,the artistes unlike the artistes of yore have to be extremely vigilant and circumspect in their comments.
Although I have not had a chance to move closely with the ladies currently dominating the CM music scene--Sudha/Jayashree/Sowmya/Nithyashree/Aruna/Gayathri V et al--I would like to see younger forumites who may have had opportunities to watch and perhaps "mingle" with them at close quarters --- comment on the dynamics of the artistes relationship with their spouses and the influence of the latter on the artistes/ and the extent of the influence in their careers.
ANY TAKERS?
. My fleeting observation has been that they are all incredibly street-smart ,do not let their hair down easily in public,watch carefully what they say in public--especially when their sycophants 'drool" over them--so much that their public comments/views when interviewed seems unduly rehearsed and parsed(atleast in my opinion!!). Part of the reason is also because of the multiple media outlets thirsting for content,the artistes unlike the artistes of yore have to be extremely vigilant and circumspect in their comments.
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Re: MKT
MKR
CM performers are small fries! There is no interest in them for the general population unlike in the olden days. As for them, most are motivated by cash unless they have a spouse who is rich intrinsically. You are unlikely to find a MS/TS who had deep philanthropic concerns and who shared their wealth for the benefit of the society. Actually MS/TS should be remembered for their charity as much as for their contribution to CM. MKT inspite of his financial success failed to contribute for the welfare of society and hence is no longer remembered. NSK did better and partly due to his political affiliations. I doubt very much whether any of the present generation of CM performers will last in public memory. The tragedy is whether they even care!
CM performers are small fries! There is no interest in them for the general population unlike in the olden days. As for them, most are motivated by cash unless they have a spouse who is rich intrinsically. You are unlikely to find a MS/TS who had deep philanthropic concerns and who shared their wealth for the benefit of the society. Actually MS/TS should be remembered for their charity as much as for their contribution to CM. MKT inspite of his financial success failed to contribute for the welfare of society and hence is no longer remembered. NSK did better and partly due to his political affiliations. I doubt very much whether any of the present generation of CM performers will last in public memory. The tragedy is whether they even care!
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: MKT
CMLover: As much as it pains me I have to agree with you 100% on the indifference of some of the "established" artistes today.I suspect it is due to hubris-"We have it made--you rasikas for all the interest and enthusiasm you show would never be smart enough to truly appreciate what we have to offer"(example: I believe in the recent december festival in Chennai(Dec 2009),I heard from someone I trust and not prone to exaggeration that in one of TMK's concerts,when he sang a viruttham- with some rare ragas,one rasika got up to politely ask what was one particular raga to which TMK is purported to have replied perhaps in innocent jest--O!! that means you have been able to identify the other ragas --even if it had been made in jest I think it was an insensitive remark.
In all my listening years of the earlier generation of Vidwans and Vidushis I have not come across a single example of hubris on artistes part--be it ARI,SSI,GNB,MMI or MS,DKP,MLV .They all genuinely respected the audience even though many in the audience in sheer numbers may not have been as knowledgeable as some of the younger audiences of today--the most I have ever heard GNB say about audiences --"Nangal Koduthalmattum Poradu,ungalukku eduthakka theriyanam(It is not enough I can dish it out to you, YOU should be capable of assimilating it and if you do --that is the highest compliment we can expect from the audience.). ARI was famous for his genuine respect for the audience--no condescension or pretense compelled by need for civility
I have so many observations about the hubris of some of the present day artistes that I dare not share in this forum lest it should provoke some of the younger forumites who may be genuine fans of the artistes!!
When I look back when we used to host the stalwarts of those days in Bombay(when I was the errand boy for the Vidwans-be it the need for Rajaji Seeval or Thangabaspam tobacco or snuff!!),I used to complain to my parents how stingy some of these Vidwans were with their money thinking that they earned large sums and were needlessly stingy.(I would invariably run short because the money given by the musicians would not have taken into account price inflation or price differentials between the stores in their own home towns and Bombay prices!!!!--the worst offender in tnis area from my memory was the late (Alathur Srinivasa Iyer-- a gem of a man but incredibly tight-fisted(but not greedy or envious). I used to dread accomanying him on his shopping forays in the Matunga market--he would put the Middle-eastern Bazaar merchants to shame in terms of his ability to drive hard bargains much to my embarrassment!! How misinformed I was I learnt when I looked at their family obligations(GNB had a large family and was responsible for getting his sisters married because his father had died earlier),Semmangudi(more on this in the SSI saga that I am working on!)supported not only his immediate family but several of his relatives.In retrospect judging from the generous remunerations that the present day artistes receive both in India and abroad,the older artistes were paid a pittance and for that they were tremendously grateful to the audience(I think in one of the threads I had indicated an episode involving ARI/SSI and a casual visitor where SSI felt ARI was overly deferential towards the visitor and ARI replying in jest (in Tamil translated: What we have he does not need(Sangeetham) for survival but what he has (money) we need for our survival--so we better be respectful!!
In several conversations I have had with Lalgudi Sir(by the way I have never revealed in this forum HOW much I admire Lalgudi Sir--not only for his contributions to music but also as a human being genuinely humble and interest and child-like curiosity in worldly matters),he always used to admire the audience in North America coming from long distances despite inclement weather and HOW he as an artiste felt obliged to perform as long as they wanted notwithstanding the physical demands on him.he once narrated to me a three-way discussion(himself PMI and GNB-he used to tell me their train journeys to Bombay Delhi or Calcutta used to be punctuated with discussions about music and fans etc). I believe GNB will lament about the audience's rising expectations in every concert and how is it possible to do given the physical state,environment,acoustics,audience responsiveness etc If I give 100 % today the next concert they seem to expect 110 % .to which PMI will reply in Tamil "artistes like you are spoiling the audience by trying to give all that you have without realising that you may not be able to do an encore and the audience would be dissatisfied although the concert itself may have been good. Lalgudi would interject saying "Is it not unfair to limit ourselves when the rasikas have spent money and time from their meager resources eager to hear the best we have to offer to which PMI would say we should be realistic in how we approach concerts. This does not imply that PMI was indifferent towards the audience. On the contrary PMI is on record)in a speech that he delivered in Palghat) in Tamil on his definition of a True artiste. Translated it runs like this:
Rasikas go thru great pains to attend a concert setting aside for a brief moment their own trials and sorrows--family/work/relatives/money etc etc, The artiste who truly makes them not think of any of the above worries for the 3 or 4 hours of the concert and keeps them spellbound is the TRUE ARTIST.
I wish I would hear similar stories from younger forumites about the present day artistes that would make me change my perceptions!!
In all my listening years of the earlier generation of Vidwans and Vidushis I have not come across a single example of hubris on artistes part--be it ARI,SSI,GNB,MMI or MS,DKP,MLV .They all genuinely respected the audience even though many in the audience in sheer numbers may not have been as knowledgeable as some of the younger audiences of today--the most I have ever heard GNB say about audiences --"Nangal Koduthalmattum Poradu,ungalukku eduthakka theriyanam(It is not enough I can dish it out to you, YOU should be capable of assimilating it and if you do --that is the highest compliment we can expect from the audience.). ARI was famous for his genuine respect for the audience--no condescension or pretense compelled by need for civility
I have so many observations about the hubris of some of the present day artistes that I dare not share in this forum lest it should provoke some of the younger forumites who may be genuine fans of the artistes!!
When I look back when we used to host the stalwarts of those days in Bombay(when I was the errand boy for the Vidwans-be it the need for Rajaji Seeval or Thangabaspam tobacco or snuff!!),I used to complain to my parents how stingy some of these Vidwans were with their money thinking that they earned large sums and were needlessly stingy.(I would invariably run short because the money given by the musicians would not have taken into account price inflation or price differentials between the stores in their own home towns and Bombay prices!!!!--the worst offender in tnis area from my memory was the late (Alathur Srinivasa Iyer-- a gem of a man but incredibly tight-fisted(but not greedy or envious). I used to dread accomanying him on his shopping forays in the Matunga market--he would put the Middle-eastern Bazaar merchants to shame in terms of his ability to drive hard bargains much to my embarrassment!! How misinformed I was I learnt when I looked at their family obligations(GNB had a large family and was responsible for getting his sisters married because his father had died earlier),Semmangudi(more on this in the SSI saga that I am working on!)supported not only his immediate family but several of his relatives.In retrospect judging from the generous remunerations that the present day artistes receive both in India and abroad,the older artistes were paid a pittance and for that they were tremendously grateful to the audience(I think in one of the threads I had indicated an episode involving ARI/SSI and a casual visitor where SSI felt ARI was overly deferential towards the visitor and ARI replying in jest (in Tamil translated: What we have he does not need(Sangeetham) for survival but what he has (money) we need for our survival--so we better be respectful!!
In several conversations I have had with Lalgudi Sir(by the way I have never revealed in this forum HOW much I admire Lalgudi Sir--not only for his contributions to music but also as a human being genuinely humble and interest and child-like curiosity in worldly matters),he always used to admire the audience in North America coming from long distances despite inclement weather and HOW he as an artiste felt obliged to perform as long as they wanted notwithstanding the physical demands on him.he once narrated to me a three-way discussion(himself PMI and GNB-he used to tell me their train journeys to Bombay Delhi or Calcutta used to be punctuated with discussions about music and fans etc). I believe GNB will lament about the audience's rising expectations in every concert and how is it possible to do given the physical state,environment,acoustics,audience responsiveness etc If I give 100 % today the next concert they seem to expect 110 % .to which PMI will reply in Tamil "artistes like you are spoiling the audience by trying to give all that you have without realising that you may not be able to do an encore and the audience would be dissatisfied although the concert itself may have been good. Lalgudi would interject saying "Is it not unfair to limit ourselves when the rasikas have spent money and time from their meager resources eager to hear the best we have to offer to which PMI would say we should be realistic in how we approach concerts. This does not imply that PMI was indifferent towards the audience. On the contrary PMI is on record)in a speech that he delivered in Palghat) in Tamil on his definition of a True artiste. Translated it runs like this:
Rasikas go thru great pains to attend a concert setting aside for a brief moment their own trials and sorrows--family/work/relatives/money etc etc, The artiste who truly makes them not think of any of the above worries for the 3 or 4 hours of the concert and keeps them spellbound is the TRUE ARTIST.
I wish I would hear similar stories from younger forumites about the present day artistes that would make me change my perceptions!!
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Re: MKT
MKR
I doubt very much whether there will be any comparable stories on the present day performers that can be shared. Some of us living abroad have horror stories to share which unfortunately are not permitted in this Forum (Rasikas please don't even try). These relate to substance abuse/ indecent behaviour/ exploiting the host/ etc., I have never heard of similar complaints about our old time stalwarts. Stingy perhaps yes, bad mouthed too perhaps sometimes, unclean habits also but never the kind as above that embarass the hosts and the Rasikas. But then the old ones had other sterling qualities besides vidvat and compassion which is strongly lacking in the present generation! At any rate we are not permitted to name names at this Forum unless it is complimentary.
We are eagerly awaiting your stories on Pithamaha which you may start at your convenience!
I doubt very much whether there will be any comparable stories on the present day performers that can be shared. Some of us living abroad have horror stories to share which unfortunately are not permitted in this Forum (Rasikas please don't even try). These relate to substance abuse/ indecent behaviour/ exploiting the host/ etc., I have never heard of similar complaints about our old time stalwarts. Stingy perhaps yes, bad mouthed too perhaps sometimes, unclean habits also but never the kind as above that embarass the hosts and the Rasikas. But then the old ones had other sterling qualities besides vidvat and compassion which is strongly lacking in the present generation! At any rate we are not permitted to name names at this Forum unless it is complimentary.
We are eagerly awaiting your stories on Pithamaha which you may start at your convenience!
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semmu86
- Posts: 960
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:39
Re: MKT
Such an unfortunate remark (even if made in jest) from an artiste like TMK is so disgusting , at times i feel the "mau"ling they receive in this forum is also well deserved as much as the remuneration and the publicity ..Ramasubramanian M.K wrote: TMK is purported to have replied perhaps in innocent jest--O!! that means you have been able to identify the other ragas --even if it had been made in jest I think it was an insensitive remark.
It is unfortunate that these things are not permitted to share in this forum , but i feel knowing these things will help the fans of today's young so called artists to take only the good from them ..Ramasubramanian M.K wrote: I have so many observations about the hubris of some of the present day artistes that I dare not share in this forum lest it should provoke some of the younger forumites who may be genuine fans of the artistes!!
Just a personal view , not intended at anyone or with the purpose of starting any controversy ...
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: MKT
Semmu 84: Having raised the issue of artistes'insensitivity and knowing your views about mentioning in this forum the "insensitive' remarks they make, I do not wish this Forum to be a "watch-dog' for their actions. Let this be a forum for things that are positive about Art and Artistes in general. Knowing these artistes' indifference towards the media any comment --however constructive ----would not be taken in the spirit with which it was intended. Early success without having to go thro all the travails of the earlier generation of musicians has blurred their sensitivities.
Let's leave it at that and enjoy their music oblivious to their antics "On and Off the Stage"!!!!
Let's leave it at that and enjoy their music oblivious to their antics "On and Off the Stage"!!!!
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musicfan_4201
- Posts: 199
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:34
Re: MKT
CML, where on earth is the above and MSS and NCV related to the thread on MKT.Just to mindle your memory, in one of the threads I mentioned something which was unrelated, you requested me to start in in the members lounge. What you moderate or preach should also be followed by you (being a mod). Dont you think socmlover wrote:MKR
You are a fascinating Historian. The story of the Women Trinity is a stellar side of the evolution of CM in the 20th century. Your succint portrayal of the role the men played shows how important the 'ardhanara' is for success and survival. You should write the monograph sometime since your value judgements are equally valid. My heart was much closer to NCV in those days till MLV came into the picture to replace her. I adored DKP for her patriotic songs which I used to sing in her fashion during the Freedom Struggle. After Meera MS became an Icon all over India. But then we never knew the role played by TS until you revealed some of the details. In fact he completed her life. It may be partially true for DKP. But the 'bitter half' soured the lives of the others.
There's a divinity that shapes our lives rough hew them how we will!
Also discussing personal life of artists (past or present) is of not good taste. Suggest we keep that out of the discussion topics.
I have nothing against you and hope you understand the sensitivities !!
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Ramasubramanian M.K
- Posts: 1226
- Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33
Re: MKT
Musicfan4201. I plead guilty for veering off at a tangent on the MKT topic.Excepting that NCV acted with MKT in Haridas,the references to the artistes and their spouses has as much validity as Gokula Ashtami and Ghulam Kader!!
I apologise.
Having said my "Mea Culpa" I must defend my allusions to celebrity couples and their successes/failures in their careers . In my posts I always steer away from prurient,titillating tabloid stuff but wherever such references abound in other forums or media and if I am knowledgeable enough to refute the specific prurient news about the celebrity I feel obliged to express my view on the issue thro the forum. I do not choose to go to mainstream media to "air" my views.I am open to correction if the facts I may have stated on which my hypotheses have been based on,are contrary to the truth.
Regards your point about whether celebrities personal lives should be aired or not (ofcourse It should be in the appropriate thread for readers to follow and comment upon) --as a curious historian interested in personalities (individuals do influence the course of events in the Political,Economc and Cultural worlds) I believe if the subject matter is handled with taste and dignity,it definitely belongs in forums such as these. Artistes like all others are human and sometimes make errors in judgement like many of us. Again what I refer to as error in judgement is only MY opinion and I do not claim infallibility.However before I try to speculate on the motives and the background I always try to reconstruct the context , the time and the environment,use the anecdotes that I am privy to either personally or told to me by sources that I trust.At the same time in several of my posts I have invited forum members who may have better knowledge on the celebrity or may have witnessed or heard from others present about the episodes I am referring to,to convey their views.
On top of it all if I mention or lament about the "boorishness" or insensitivity of an artiste,I believe that if I feel strongly about the artiste and if I happen to know him/her personally I feel I owe it to them to tell them personally rather than "air" it on forums like these.. In this I have tried to follow my father--a music critic for over 40 years with intimate knowledge about the artistes--always praise in public and criticise in private(one-on-one).As an aside,I would like to mention an episode(re: my father) narrated by Maharajapuram Santhanam in one of his visits to the US on a social occasion where he was the chief guest. He mentioned my father's name and said "KSM is one of the rare critics who will stress the positives in a concert in his posted reviews but follow- it up the next day with a phone conversation with me pointing out areas I could have done better--concert structure,choice of krithis in succession and how the effects may have been enhanced. etc etc. The point is that if we are truly interested in enhancing art forms and if we have access to the artistes we owe it to the artistes to tell them our views(we may be wrong but atleast this gives us an opportunity to correct ourselves). I have never believed that public airing of such views and criticisms in public would serve its purpose.
If I sound overtly defensive I apologise. Please do not take it out on CM lover!!!!
I apologise.
Having said my "Mea Culpa" I must defend my allusions to celebrity couples and their successes/failures in their careers . In my posts I always steer away from prurient,titillating tabloid stuff but wherever such references abound in other forums or media and if I am knowledgeable enough to refute the specific prurient news about the celebrity I feel obliged to express my view on the issue thro the forum. I do not choose to go to mainstream media to "air" my views.I am open to correction if the facts I may have stated on which my hypotheses have been based on,are contrary to the truth.
Regards your point about whether celebrities personal lives should be aired or not (ofcourse It should be in the appropriate thread for readers to follow and comment upon) --as a curious historian interested in personalities (individuals do influence the course of events in the Political,Economc and Cultural worlds) I believe if the subject matter is handled with taste and dignity,it definitely belongs in forums such as these. Artistes like all others are human and sometimes make errors in judgement like many of us. Again what I refer to as error in judgement is only MY opinion and I do not claim infallibility.However before I try to speculate on the motives and the background I always try to reconstruct the context , the time and the environment,use the anecdotes that I am privy to either personally or told to me by sources that I trust.At the same time in several of my posts I have invited forum members who may have better knowledge on the celebrity or may have witnessed or heard from others present about the episodes I am referring to,to convey their views.
On top of it all if I mention or lament about the "boorishness" or insensitivity of an artiste,I believe that if I feel strongly about the artiste and if I happen to know him/her personally I feel I owe it to them to tell them personally rather than "air" it on forums like these.. In this I have tried to follow my father--a music critic for over 40 years with intimate knowledge about the artistes--always praise in public and criticise in private(one-on-one).As an aside,I would like to mention an episode(re: my father) narrated by Maharajapuram Santhanam in one of his visits to the US on a social occasion where he was the chief guest. He mentioned my father's name and said "KSM is one of the rare critics who will stress the positives in a concert in his posted reviews but follow- it up the next day with a phone conversation with me pointing out areas I could have done better--concert structure,choice of krithis in succession and how the effects may have been enhanced. etc etc. The point is that if we are truly interested in enhancing art forms and if we have access to the artistes we owe it to the artistes to tell them our views(we may be wrong but atleast this gives us an opportunity to correct ourselves). I have never believed that public airing of such views and criticisms in public would serve its purpose.
If I sound overtly defensive I apologise. Please do not take it out on CM lover!!!!
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Re: MS, NCV and related artistes
Sorry musicfan_4201
should have done it earlier. I am still learning this new forum techniques and was wary of trying out. splitting and moving posts.
Please continue other discussions here and leave MKT to himself....
should have done it earlier. I am still learning this new forum techniques and was wary of trying out. splitting and moving posts.
Please continue other discussions here and leave MKT to himself....
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venkatakailasam
- Posts: 4170
- Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 19:16
Re: MS, NCV and related artistes
Interesting articles about NCV;
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/11/28/stor ... 600300.htm
http://www.columbuscarnaticmusic.org/pd ... 1-2007.pdf
(S. RAJAM on N.C. Vasanthakokilam, as told to S. JANAKI Struti, August 2007 and
"Remarkable musical and emotional consciousness" by sulochana Pattabi raman)
venkatakailasam
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/11/28/stor ... 600300.htm
http://www.columbuscarnaticmusic.org/pd ... 1-2007.pdf
(S. RAJAM on N.C. Vasanthakokilam, as told to S. JANAKI Struti, August 2007 and
"Remarkable musical and emotional consciousness" by sulochana Pattabi raman)
venkatakailasam