Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Carnatic Musicians
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Purist
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#476 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by Purist » 03 May 2016, 14:25

vk- out of curiosity I listened to 'jesi' portion you are debating upon, a couple of times. To me it sounded more
Bhairavi and could not trace a Kharaharapriya there. (nearest comparble to the phrase/sangatis of "Koluvai" pallavi line towards its end).
Quite intriguing, is it like the story of the blinds holding parts of the elephant...? ;) :?
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SrinathK
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#477 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by SrinathK » 03 May 2016, 21:00

Jesi is sung as : M,PM-M, G, R,GR-R, S - RSN .... --- this can be done in both ragas. But that M,PM-M, G, R,GR-R, phrase is such a key phrase in Kharaharapriya that it could give you that impression since there isn't enough of Natabhairavi out there.

Now that I've listened to it fully, unless it comes from an era when D2 didn't exist in Bhairavi, SSI's version is Natabhairavi through and through. There isn't a D2 or a S G2 R2 G2 phrase anywhere in the rendition. But there is a G2 M1 P with that wide kampita that is characteristic of Bhairavi in it, and that phrase from S N2 D1 P at some places that is sung almost exactly like Bhairavi. That's about it.
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vasanthakokilam
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#478 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by vasanthakokilam » 03 May 2016, 21:47

Thanks Srinath. That initial KHP phrase and the S N2 D1 P are what I was referring to that was throwing me off.

Interesting how NB has this delicate existence. I don't know the raga lakshana other than some vague recollections of vaLLi deva senA pati . I will listen to it again to see how much Bhairavi I sense there. My sense now is VaLLi deva senApati 's aesthetic is more aggressive and bold along the lines of its cousins like Shanmukhapriya on the other side of the madhyam divide, compared to Bhairavi's pliant and more nuanced demeanor. But I will listen to some more NB to refresh myself

I posted the link to the Ramani version. His jEsi does not sound that much KHP to me.( but then his version may be the fully morphed one in Bhairavi )
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SrinathK
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#479 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by SrinathK » 04 May 2016, 09:32

In fact @vk, it sounds overall like what would happen if you took the Kharaharapriya version and replaced every D2 with D1 -- I dare say that if you tried this inf reverse, you could get away singing the whole thing in Kharaharapriya. In fact quite a few more phrases in SSI's version would be perfectly ok in Kharaharapriya too.
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vasanthakokilam
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#480 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by vasanthakokilam » 04 May 2016, 10:11

Got it, Srinath.

I would expect that layering gamakas and characteristic phrases on top of the swaras would eliminate such big ambiguities and crossovers.

I listened to Bombay Jayasree rendition of vaLLi deva sEnA patE https://youtu.be/Si4k_zwqY1g

There is no KHP or Bhairavi overlap or ambiguity here. In fact, as I remembered about this song, this has a lot of aesthetic similarity to Shanmukhapriya
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bhakthim dehi
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#481 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by bhakthim dehi » 05 May 2016, 19:01

I think I have already mentioned that the Music Academy library has a list of Thyagaraja's compositions from the Walajapet manuscripts. I have seen it at the Academy library sometime in the 1980s. Therein chEtulAra is mentioned as being in naTa bhairavi. The list must originally have been in Telugu script but the Academy copied it from Saurashtra Sabha, Madurai and transcribed the list into English.
Are you sure those were the translation of manuscripts preserved at Madurai sabha? I know there was some tie-up between GOML-Madras and the Madurai sabha way back in late 1950 s and they too did some transcription. This is a news to me. Now, you cannot find any more manuscripts like this in the Academy library.
I raised this doubt as sattaleni dinamu is mentioned as Naganandhini in the book by Sri. Chinnasamy Mudaliyar. Secondly, in a book by Sri SA Ramasvamy Iyr, the raga for sattaleni is mentioned as Nagananhini an chetulra as Karaharapriya. He was a disciple of both Valajapet Krishnasvamy Bhagavathar and Umayapluram Krishna an Sundara Bhagavathar.
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RaviSri
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#482 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by RaviSri » 06 May 2016, 18:12

Are you sure those were the translation of manuscripts preserved at Madurai sabha?
Yes I am sure about this.Because I asked SRJ about this sometime after I saw the MS in the library and he assured me that it was indeed the Walajapet list from the Madurai Saurashtra Sabha.

One thing we will have to remember is that Thyagaraja did not name his ragas. This was done much later by probably several people including the direct disciples. The confusion arises perhaps from this.
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rshankar
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#483 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by rshankar » 06 May 2016, 18:20

RaviSri wrote:One thing we will have to remember is that Thyagaraja did not name his ragas.
WOW! That is something I did not know. A major difference between him and say, Sri Muttusvami Dikshitar, right?
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kvchellappa
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#484 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by kvchellappa » 06 May 2016, 18:57

Does it mean that he did not give a raga mudra in the songs or that he sang regardless of what raga it might be? The comments I hear about how he has started thodi krithis in different swaras etc. seem to rule out the latter possibility. Who named the ragas he introduced?
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bhakthim dehi
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#485 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by bhakthim dehi » 06 May 2016, 21:11

It is sad that we have lost those translations.
Yes,he didn't reveal the name of apoorva ragas. It doesn't mean he is unaware of the ragas or not interested in adhering to the lakshana of any particular raga. Later disciples named those songs by referring to lexicons that they had.
I too agree that there might have been a confusion in naming the ragas.
This problem can be solved either by referring to the notations of the direct disciples or by referring to the book in which these disciples were involved by a third party.
In the examples I cited, one was written by the direct disciple (SA Ramasvamy Iyer) and the one by a third party involving the direct disciple (AM Chinasvamy Mudaliyar). There is no discrepancy in both the versions.
Also in the transcripts of Valapet manuscripts, I remember seeing as Naganandhini and Shadvidamargini.
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raghusrinivas
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#486 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by raghusrinivas » 18 Jul 2016, 01:20

Hi ,
Is there a recording of semmangudi signing viriboni ?

Thanks
Raghu
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rajeshnat
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#487 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by rajeshnat » 29 Jul 2016, 07:12

I wish I had listened to him atleast once , only heard him speak. Lovely tribute by VVS on the doyen semmangudi
http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 911456.ece
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Pasupathy
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#488 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by Pasupathy » 29 Jul 2016, 07:29

Notations for two songs ( given in the 40-s) by Semmangudi ( in Tamil)
http://s-pasupathy.blogspot.com/2016/07/80.html
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kvchellappa
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#489 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by kvchellappa » 26 Dec 2016, 14:34

A brief biograpahy of SSI in Tamih by V Sriram (from twitter):

http://ippodhu.com/%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E ... %E0%AF%8D/
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rajeshnat
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#490 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by rajeshnat » 02 Feb 2017, 12:17

Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer singing simmhendramadhyamam (natajana by KV Srinivasa Iyengar). SSI singing simmhendra madhyamam is a rare rendition and I assume since it had to be recorded in a 78 rpm in circa 1930's, semmangudi raced more than his usual electric speed. :) :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPG8Ym5K1tw
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kraghu
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#491 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by kraghu » 01 Aug 2017, 06:46

I would like to know who the accompanying musicians are in this concert:
https://www.sangeethamshare.org/muralid ... Concert-2/

I found the same Anandabhairavi song here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pkuSGJeo1g

Thanks.
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MaheshS
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#492 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by MaheshS » 01 Aug 2017, 19:13

kraghu wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 06:46
I would like to know who the accompanying musicians are in this concert:
https://www.sangeethamshare.org/muralid ... Concert-2/
The violinist is T N Krishnan, not sure about the mridangam.
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MaheshS
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#493 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by MaheshS » 01 Aug 2017, 23:00

MaheshS wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 19:13
kraghu wrote:
01 Aug 2017, 06:46
I would like to know who the accompanying musicians are in this concert:
https://www.sangeethamshare.org/muralid ... Concert-2/
The violinist is T N Krishnan, not sure about the mridangam.
OK, I am going to put my head out and say Trichy Sankaran. Can anyone confirm one way or the other please?
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semmu86
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#494 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by semmu86 » 02 Aug 2017, 22:10

Definitely not Shri. Trichy Sankaran. Shri UKS it is.
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Pasupathy
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#495 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by Pasupathy » 03 Aug 2017, 03:27

Notations by Semmangudi ( in Tamil )

http://s-pasupathy.blogspot.com/2017/07/783-128.html
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shankarank
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#496 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by shankarank » 19 Sep 2017, 08:35

Found an inspiring rendition by disciples :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wcU40xEDuo - cEtah SrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7LwfWLPhI - YK svarajati
and that should float up other such videos.
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CRama
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#497 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by CRama » 19 Sep 2017, 11:14

Thanks for pointers to the excellent renditions by the disciples of SSI. There are the three swarajatis and Chetasree. I could spot PSN,VS, Palai Ramachandran, P.R.Kumarakerala Varma, Sitha Rajan, Kalyani Sharma (my guess). Any body to identify the artistes. One person sitting in the balcony very much looked like SSI. Is he his son.
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shankarank
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#498 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by shankarank » 29 Oct 2017, 01:08

The video mentions - this is by his daughters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjiDwpIh61E
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sankark
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#499 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by sankark » 31 Dec 2017, 16:47

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Jigyaasa
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#500 Re: Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer

Post by Jigyaasa » 02 Feb 2018, 03:50

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:
05 Sep 2010, 19:51
TKI was born in Marathurai near Pandanallur.TKI had his early training in music under his father and later with Kothavasal Venkatrama Iyer a renowned composer of Tana Varnams( Jalajakshi in Hamasadhwani,Sarasuda in Saveri,Era Na Pai--I always thought this was Patnam Subramania Iyer's-forumites need help in clarifying this--, and some lesser known varnams like Swami Ninne Nata and Ninne Kori in Gowla--have any of the forumites heard the last 2 varnams and if so who has sung them?).
@Ramasubramanian M.K , hearing this varNam for the first time! Here: https://youtu.be/pq_0fqDuVHs?t=46
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