Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

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semmu86
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Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

Vid. Shri. K. S. Kalidas gave an insightful lecture on the subject matter @ Sastri Hall on the 27th. Didnt take down any notes on it, but just jotting down from memory, what all I could recollect. In general, his speech can roughly be classified into 3 segments.

1. General briefing about our past.
2. Briefing about thanjAvur school.
3. Briefing about pudukkOTTai school.

1. General Briefing : (He dealt with this in detail, but am condensing down that part).

- This got more to do with the Mughal invasion that was prevalent across India.
- The rise & fall of Vijayanagara empire, which took on the Mughals.
- The Maratha settlement in & around thanjAvur & about their kings, who were great patrons of art.
- The earliest form of Mrudangam accompaniment began as an aide to all the Bhajans.
- The earliest masters of Mrudangam; Atleast the first generation ones whom we all know like Narayanaswamy Appa, Azhaganambia Pillai, Thanjavur Ramdas Rao, etc used to accompany for lot of Bhajans initially.
- Though lot of styles of Mrudangam playing and schools might have existed earlier, He said that these schools went on to become prominent and its off-shoots went on to the other 3 Dravidian states as well.

2. Briefing about thanjAvur school : (This was very very brief).

- Thanjavur Vaidyanatha Iyer was the founder & torch bearer of this school.
- Most prominent amongst his students was PMI, who established a bANi for himself within this school.

3. Briefing about pudukkOTTai school :

- This school has its origin from the indigenous thavil.
- PudukkOTTai Mammondia Pillai was the founder & torch bearer of this school.
- He was originally playng with an instrument called "Tape" and then designed and made the kanjira famous.
- His guru was Marimuthu Pillai, who was basically a thavil VidhwAn.
- Mammondia Pillai had three stellar disciples in Palani Muttiah Pillai (Father & Guru of PSP), Dakshinamurthy Pillai & Ramanathapuram Chitsabhai Servai.
- Dakshinamurthy Pillai encouraged many young musicians of the day like Chembai, Alathur Bros, MVI etc.
- Palani Muttiah Pillai inspite of being regarded by some as higher than Dakshinamurthy Pillai in certain aspects of layam, could not come up because of him not being "Social".

I was surprised that he didnt touch upon the performing musicians like UKS/ Trichy Sankaran/ TKM etc when talking about their respective schools (Maybe that was not intentional).

On the whole, I somehow felt that something was missing about this entire speech. Maybe as Shri. K. S. Kalidas himself said towards the end, that he had only about 4-5 days' notice to prepare for this.

But overall, it was a brilliant lecture, delivered in his usual unassumingly simple, yet powerful way.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Thanks, Semmu for your excellent report. I am also an admirer of Sri KSK's style of lecturing and the wealth of knowledge that he brings forth. I wish I could have attended this one.
As you say, a lecture on the evolution of mridangam schools does not feel complete without a discussion of the contemporary giants.

Nick H
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by Nick H »

It was nice to see you in passing as you left, semmu86. Thanks for contributing some notes, as I am still linguistically challenged. I hope to arrange a visit with Sri Kalidas with the request that I can learn more of this stuff in English. Perhaps we could arrange it between us: you'd be able to ask much better questions than I can.

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

Nick H wrote:I can learn more of this stuff in English.
In case you have not read it, I would strongly recommend to you the book "Carnatic Summer" by Sriram. V, wherein he has dealt in detail about these Mrudangam schools in the life stories of PSP & PMI. He has covered all that Shri. Kalidas spoke on that day & even more which Shri. Kalidas didnt cover :: Some fascinating insights about the life of these maestros, which were instrumental in them becoming so great & also about the complete evolution of these two great schools.

rajeshnat
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by rajeshnat »

For those who can read thamizh , gamakam(lalitha ram) biography on PSP is also an excellent resource for the evolution of mrudangam

Nick H
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by Nick H »

"Carnatic Summer" by Sriram. V, wherein he has dealt in detail about these Mrudangam schools in the life stories of PSP & PMI.
Had heard of the book, but didn't know this. Thanks for the recommendation
gamakam(lalitha ram) biography on PSP is also an excellent resource for the evolution of mrudangam
I was there at the launch, and even have a copy, but my request to my wife to "serialise" it in English for me did not bear fruit. I don't really blame her: it would be quite a task to undertake.

rshankar
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by rshankar »

Nick H wrote:I was there at the launch, and even have a copy, but my request to my wife to "serialise" it in English for me
Nick, if you do find someone who undertakes this for you, please do share.

Nick H
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by Nick H »

Sure, but don't hold your breath. I can see that the translation of a book which doesn't interest her is not exactly an endearing task. I'd feel the same.

We might do better to petition Gamaka for an English-language edition :)

SrinathK
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by SrinathK »

I am interested to know more about the varieties of style in Mridangam playing. Can any one discuss in detail what are the differences between the schools and their approach to the tani, playing techniques etc...? (With links to Tanis or websites would be most appreciated). If such a thread already exists in the Tala & Laya section, please let me know or else we can have a thread and discuss it over there.

annamalai
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by annamalai »

the sishya parampara info is reasonably well-known using google.

There is an AIR radio interview of CS Murugabhoopathy - in which he has explained - what are the various patterns that one can play for the famous krithi Vatapi Ganapathim - what can be aesthetically appealing and how to fill the gaps, how to start for the anu pallavi, etc. Recently, I was listening to a recording of CSM accompanying Madurai Somu singing Smarane Sukamu (Janaranjani) a few days back, the way CSM fills for Vara Raja yoga ... along with Ghatam, Morsing, ... so melodious (and Somu exclaiming Beshu ...).

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

CSM IS ONE THOSE GREATS APPRECIATED BY MOST VIDWANS & AUDIENCES. SOMU said in his later days he was singing only because CSM agreed to accompany him! MMI used to say at the end of his concerts: "PANNEER THELICHA MADIRI VASICHEL"(YOU played like Panner was sprinkled). There is the famous Bombay concert where MMI(who held up concerts for more than 10 minutes even in AIR CONCERTS) unless the THAMBURA was perfectly tuned actually said (When the tambura played truant): I can continue the concert with CSM'S PERFECT MRIDANGAM NADAM SOUNDS & SANG the concert for more than 3 hours. Another instance: There is a 1957 GNB-CHOWDIAH- CSM MYSORE CONCERT considered to be one of the BEST concerts(I was lucky to attend it!). There is a story behind it. GNB had a health set back & in those days (like the LA SCALA OPERA in Italy) sometimes some crank will shout something. In certain GNB Concerts it used to be about so called sruti lapse & it had annoyed CHOWDIAH. So for this concert T.C. & C.S.M. VERY carefully prepared their instruments & when some one from the audience-it is equivalent to the 15 minute fame in TV now adays- said something in Kannada CHOWDIAH stopped & asked the guy to come up front & listen how perfect GNB' SRUTI SUDDHAM WAS (in Kannada & tamil). Its in the taped recordings!...GNB after the concert complemented T.C. & ESPECIALLY C.S.M. FOR HIS PERFECTION.
The reason I am writing all this is that there is a tendency to just concentrate on the Kanakku & arithmetic gymnastics FAR MORE THAN THE NADAM which is what makes the SOUND EXPERIENCE REACH MUCH HIGHER LEVELS. Consequently there is a dismissive approach esp. by Mridangam Affectionados towards V.R. & C.S.M. etc. PMI himself has said that V.R. had BRAHMANADAM for example. JUST harping& carping on the Vyavaharam & Kanakku aspects all the times misses the inportant aspects of what the SOUND of the Mridangam is capable of. My not very knowlegeable& sophisticated SYSTEMS approach to music in a concert.
ITS A PITY NOT ENOUGH is being said about CSM who stood shoulder to shoulder with PMI & PSP during the Golden age; He ADJUSTED HIS PLAYING & LEVEL to the level of the main artist.....VKV

SrinathK
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by SrinathK »

Dear vkv sir, I believe I have 2 or 3 recordings of GNB with CSM's accompaniment (one of which is on Youtube courtesy venkatakailasam) and you must be referring to THAT mysore concert with that incredible Panthuvarali and Bhairavi RTP. That was one of the all time best with GNB's voice in spectacular form.

Very little has been discussed about CSM's style. All I have read is his ability to play all the right head techniques on the thoppi side of the mridangam using his left hand but nothing more. I an interested to know more about his style. Are there any tani samples?

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

SrinathK wrote:Dear vkv sir, I believe I have 2 or 3 recordings of GNB with CSM's accompaniment (one of which is on Youtube courtesy venkatakailasam) and you must be referring to THAT mysore concert with that incredible Panthuvarali and Bhairavi RTP. That was one of the all time best with GNB's voice in spectacular form.

Very little has been discussed about CSM's style. All I have read is his ability to play all the right head techniques on the thoppi side of the mridangam using his left hand but nothing more. I an interested to know more about his style. Are there any tani samples?
YES. That's the concert.
Dear Srinath, Write me at vkv@juno.com. I will be happy to share my collections which extend to almost 60 years etc. VKV

annamalai
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by annamalai »

There are many concerts in circulation.
You can check this Ramnad Krishnan concert at Sangeethapriya http://www.sangeethamshare.org/kl/06-RK ... ademy-1960
What a concert by Ramnad Krishnan, violin Mayavaram Govindaraja Pillai and Mridangam by Murugabhoopathy. The tone for the concert is set by Paralokha (Mandari).

As a tidbit, I do recall, for the first concert LGJ had accompanied Madurai Mani Iyer, the mridangam was CS Murugabhoopathy.
Last edited by annamalai on 01 Dec 2013, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

Dear A, YES. As you know LGJ has praised CSM VERY HIGHLY & in the last few years esp. used to talk about a lot about his capabilities. VKV

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

[update][/update]
Since the title is EVOLUTION OF MRUDANGAM SCHOOLS IN SOUTH INDIA I felt a review of the Many Schools may be appropriate. I give brief non-technical descriptions here in the hope others will escalate this to a full fledged discussion.I am only referring to major contributors in MY OPINION.
Historically The Thanjavur & Pudukkottai are considered the two major schools with PMI & PSP the DOYENS of each school. In terms of PMI he followed every nuance of the rendering faithfully managing to repeat on Mridangam SANGATIS that were rendered and also was master of Pause which was followed by a torrential outpour of unimaginable proportion. PSP was quite different & he embellished the main performer without dominating & his playing was marked by Sowkyam freeing the main artist from any tensions of being overshadowed. In my opinion all the rest were forced to try different things to appear not to be clones. I classify them as NICHE category Mridangists.
Their logical successors Palghat Raghu(PMI)& Tiruchy Sankaran(PSP) for various reasons COMBINED THE BHANIS of their guru& school with that of their own school & created their own niche style. Every one who followed PMI& PSP belonged to the category of Niche type artists. P.R. used lot of Palani's Sollus, Moras, Korvais etc & TS did the same with PMI. UKS (who has mentioned various gurus at various times) similarly developed his own Bhani according to him. TKM (classmate of PMI) plays in pure Thanjavur style but emphasises more Kankku etc. Again others like CSM & V.R. CONCENTRATED on Sowkyam& Nadham & in the case of V.R. with his sarvalaghu approach almost went in the Anti-Kanakku direction but ARI himself crowned him as Nadhabhadran!. Karaikudi Mani came from a school established by Vikku Vinayakaraman's father who has written books on how to excel by learning eight strokes etc. So there have been INNUMERABLE ATTEMPTS to somehow twist the Thanjavur & Pudukkottai Schools to separate themselves but PMI & PSP were such creative giants MOST things are TRACEABLE TO THESE TWO GENIUSES. I have not MENTIONED EVERY GREAT ARTIST HERE OBVIOUSLY.
Leap frogging to today I leave it to others to characterise today's Mridangists. The only thing I have observed is the rise in Decibel Levels & emphasis on individual efforts-OBSERVATIONS of an inane old man- & I am staying away commenting on other aspects as I find many of them are playing the Sollukattus, Moras &Korvais without knowing the ORIGIN of what they are executing. With STRONG PREJUDICES like this - I am NOT claiming EVERYONE is like this- I am better off to let others continue this discussion. VKV. :)) :-@ :-ss

tiruppugazh
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by tiruppugazh »

"Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India upto 1960 restricted to the Tanjavur/Trichy belt" would have been a more appropriate title. Things have a changed a lot since then with Andhra developing through Venkayla Venkatanarasimham, Mullapadi Sriramamoorthy, Dandamudi Ramamohan Rao & Yella Venkateswara Rao. Similarly we can see development in Kerala through Mavelikara Krishnan Kutty Nair, Mavelikara Velu Kutty Nair & SVS Narayanan. Karnataka has its own share in Tumkur Bhadrachar, VS Rajagopal, HP Ramachar etc developing their own styles. The above names would cover upto around 1990 I think and then we have the present day stalwarts, professional stars, amateurs, gurus and boy/girl wizards!

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

tiruppugazh wrote:"Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India upto 1960 restricted to the Tanjavur/Trichy belt" would have been a more appropriate title.
Shri. Kalidas in fact touched upon this at the beginning of the lecture. He said that even though percussion was in vogue in many parts of S. India including TN, these two schools were instrumental in terms of giving shape to the evolution of Mrudangam and most of the other styles that got branched out to other Dravidian states were in fact an off-shoot from either of these schools.

Going by your statement, Dandamudi Ramamohan Rao trained under PSP, Mavelikara Velu Kutty Nair & Kamalakar Rao under PMI, Mavelikara Krishnan Kutty Nair i believe under PSP for sometime (Though not sure). So, as VKV said, most of the other schools of Mrudangam that we get to see today can be traced to these two schools. Esp to that of PMI & PSP.

Nick H
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by Nick H »

Sri Kalidas is giving a lecture on 8th Dec, 9.30am at TAG Centre.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Going by your statement, Dandamudi Ramamohan Rao trained under PSP, Mavelikara Velu Kutty Nair & Kamalakar Rao under PMI, Mavelikara Krishnan Kutty Nair i believe under PSP for sometime (Though not sure). So, as VKV said, most of the other schools of Mrudangam that we get to see today can be traced to these two schools. Esp to that of PMI & PSP.
Very good point, Semmu (and VKV). I would further add that it is really the PMI/PSP banis (not just the Tanjore/Pudukkottai schools) that have influenced all these great mridangam vidwans that Tiruppugazh mentioned.

In fact, Patri Satish Kumar (a leading contemporary artiste from Andhra and a wizard with the instrument) made the same general point about the wide impact of the PMI and PSP wings of their respective mridangam schools in a recent interview. I'll see if I can find the link on youtube. In this interview, Patri said that PMI and PSP have created such strong foundations that it is very difficult to innovate beyond what they have achieved with the art form. This is not to say that people cannot add their own individual elements to them (both UKS/PRR and TS are great examples of this), but it is within the amazing framework set up by these titans.

PMI brought a lot of kerala rhythms (for e.g. panchavAdyam) into mainstream mridangam playing and PSP added a lot of tavil sollus, but as TS often says: mridangatthai mridangamAga vasichithadhu avargaL thAn (they played the mridangam like the way the mridangam is supposed to be played).

That said, it is definitely a worthwhile academic topic to see how the PMI/PSP styles morphed into several styles in vogue today ( for e.g. tabla-inspired gumki patterns of the Andhra mridangists like VV Ramanamurthy, Paruppali Phalgun, Patri and others).

The tone of the kuchi mridangam of some of these artistes (esp Patri and VVR) is also an interesting change. In the CSM interview that is on sangeethapriya, he talks about how the instruments were crafted differently in the 1930s when he was coming on to the scene in a big way. These are all topics worthy of serious exploration.

kappi
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by kappi »

Very interesting discussion.
Let me try to convey my point briefly. After learning several of the Tanjore style korvais and cholkettus, it has become quite evident to me that there isn't much difference between the Tanjore and the Pudukottai styles. There are indeed differences, if one is in the pursuit of establishing them, but both styles are strongly influenced by thavil. One may miss this point, when one assumes that the Tanjore-Pudukottai diad is equivalent to the PMI-PSP diad. In fact it is not.

If it can be agreed that Tanjore school is named after Tanjore Vaidyanatha Iyer (TVI), then Tanjore and Pudukottai schools are very similar. One should remember that TVI was heavily influenced by thavil and would daily go to listen to thavil concerts by the stars of those days (source for this info is TK Murthy (TKM) sir). And the method of playing various nadais framed by TVI, specifically the Sankeerna nadai and Misra nadai, are strongly reminiscent of thavil style. In fact the method of playing sankeernam was adopted by TVI directly from Thavil Panchapikesan pillai (I guess the name is not wrong!).

PMI's is not the exact Tanjore style; he developed his own unique style,as everyone knows and that was the point of departure from the original Tanjore style. For the matter of fact, the original Tanjore style was/is played by TK Murthy sir alone and some other historically unknown vidwans (one example is TM Thygarajan's brother who was an extremely gifted mridangist of the ranks of PMI). Also note that TK Murthy's playing is strongly reminiscent of the thavil style--right from the way sarvalaghu is played. If one wants to understand the difference between PMI's style and his parent-Tanjore style, they may look at the differences between PMI and TKM styles.

It is also an interesting paradox that, Pudukottai style players lost most of the thavil based playing (specifically the accompaniment part and not the thani part) possibly when PSP adopted a more sarvalghu based accompaniment (this is atleast my understanding--as I have not heard young PSP's recordings), while the only mridangist who retained the thavil based accompaniment was a Tanjore style player (TKM) !

Thus this whole partitioning of styles into Tanjore-Pudukottai diad doesn't really reflect the reality; but is only for the convenience of simplification via binarising complex and diversified historical facts, which but unfortunately distorts the truth. But yes, I agree, for a normal listener, such partitions may help form a simple structure in their mind regarding the history of mridangam; and hence may be useful; so it's not that I am entirely opposed to such simplifications.
Thanks.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

Dear Kappi, EXCELLENT ANALYSIS & ELUCIDATION. I completely agree with you because I have discussed the points you have so brilliantly explained with PMI, PSP & TKM- I was lucky to know them & they were good enough to explain things too!- It is my understanding that TKM did not & still does not BUDGE from the original Tanjore style. PMI on the other hand with his background(Kerala) as well as the desire to play the instrument like a vocalist (Sangathis etc) esp.after he was Mesmerized by ARI evolved his own style. Similarly historically PSP- I am sure he contributed HEAVILY to the nadais,kanakkus etc for the Alathur Pallavis- & adopted his style accordingly. Chembai is reported to have advised him to LIGHTEN UP a little & when he started playing for MMI with his ELUSIVE Sarvalaghu approach again he deviated from the original Pudukkottai style. Actually MMI used to call PSP A "THYAGI" for submerging his enormous talents in complex playing etc. & he ended up being as THE LEADING VIDWAN who elevated the LEVELS of main performers & elevated the whole concert experience. ALL THREE ARE SUCH GIANTS! VKV

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

kappi wrote:Very interesting discussion.
Let me try to convey my point briefly. After learning several of the Tanjore style korvais and cholkettus, it has become quite evident to me that there isn't much difference between the Tanjore and the Pudukottai styles. There are indeed differences, if one is in the pursuit of establishing them
There are indeed striking differences between the schools & as you rightly said later, it is tough to make out the differences on accompaniment alone and usually, the thani avarthanam will be the give away. Having said that, one can still make out the vidwan who is playing (UKS/ TS/ PRR etc) based on accompaniment also, for they have stamped their individuality to such great extents. Hallmark of greats.

Coming to the differences, I will try to make it brief. Basic Laya Patterns remain the same, irrespective of schools & gurus. The differences come in the methodology of handling them, the approach & in their diverse fingering techniques. Lets take a simple thisram for example. The approach varies between Tanjore and the Pudukottai styles. Tanjore school on one hand stresses on making it more obvious at the beginning itself with stamdard patterns and then improvising on the same. Pudukottai school has the "keezkaala" thisram approach (Dosent mean that Tanjore school does not play this), but it is more prevalent here. TS has even improvised upon this by playing "keezkaala" thisram in misra chApu and there are recordings where he has played "keezkaala" khanDam also (He demonstrated this during his lec-dem at the MA in the 2008 season.) Strikingly beautiful. At the end of the day, both are thisram & khandam only, but the approach and the tailor made sollus & korvais by the greats (TVI, Arupathi Natesa Iyer, Rangu Iyengar, PSP, Dakshinamurthy Pillai etc is what gives out the identity of the school)

Kuraippu Patterns :: Tanjore school sticks to a not-very-complicated misra kuraippu in chatusra nadai in most of the cases. Pudukottai school (Esp I have heard TS) play some fascinating ones like khanda koraippu in thisra nadai, misra kuraippu in khanda nadai etc... Again a striking difference which can easily be made out.

Mohra Korvais :: Grapevine has it that it was actually Mammondia Pillai who conceptualized the termination of the thani avarthanam with a final mohra & korvai. Since i have heard many contradictory versions on this, am not in a position to comment. But the point is, both these schools have distinct mohras-korvais, which is again the give away of the identity. You can find a treasure house of Tanjore school mohra-korvais in the Mrudanga Chintamani & mohra-korvai DVD's of UKS.

kappi wrote:Thus this whole partitioning of styles into Tanjore-Pudukottai diad doesn't really reflect the reality;
On the contrary, I actually feel that it does. Maybe since that we have a galaxy of Mrudangam artists today & that there is so many mix & match happening in their playing, we fail to get that impression of an unique school, coming out of their playing.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Great post, Semmu. I also feel that the schools are indeed distinct, even from the basic stroke play to the complex rhythm developments that you mentioned.

uday_shankar
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by uday_shankar »

Learning quite a bit here, semmu and others.
semmu86 wrote:khanda koraippu in thisra nadai
I think I have a tani of TS with VN on Khanjira which segues into exactly this, quite thrilling...(perhaps I got this recording from you in rasikas or facebook sometime ?).

espras
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by espras »

The Hindu reference given below might be somewhat old.

But yet, this article contains the views and observations of the great guru and doyen Kumbakonam Rajappa Iyer which will perhaps be found relevant to the highly informed discussion that is taking place in this thread.

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2006/01/06/stor ... 940500.htm

S. Prasanna.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Kappi's post got me thinking about the tavil's influence on mridangam playing in general. This is a vast topic and this is my distilled version of the substance of where I think more discussion/historic research is required. I thought I would take a quick stab at this with a few examples.

1) Tavil influences on the the TVI school: This is most certainly there and as Kappi already noted much of this can be seen in the art of the Sri TKM and his shishyas (B.Sivaraman being an exceptionally close follower of this tradition among the younger vidwans).
The proof for the influence of the tavil is right in the pudding. Everything from the power play of this school to some of the vyavaharam have all emerged from the tavil tradition. Here is a short clip of a very characteristic TVI format tani played by Murthy-sir: https://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubra ... yle-sample

2) Tavil influences on the Pazhani school: The difference is that the influence is not just in the rhythm but the "kai" itself. The way certain sollus and basic formulations get sequenced (like ki ta tha ka thariki ta thom) has been directly derived from the tavil. A great example of this was provided by Sri Trichy Sankaran at the rasikas event in 2011. I uploaded a part of this video to youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yekZpfHg3RU Watch from about 1:29 onwards. Here he talks about how that particular "kai" pattern was borrowed from the tavil, and you can almost experience the way the "kai" sequencing pattern as it evolved from this tradition.

3) Tavil influences on accompaniment/sarvalaghu development: Now this is very tricky to demonstrate since the mridangam has such a characteristically unique nadham. But I found this brilliant piece where Palghat Raghu (who borrowed a lot of PSP school techniques) has incorporated some tavil like sounds in his thoppi usage. His accompaniment for this piece by Madurai Somu/LGJ is out-of-the-world. Sometimes listening to an old Somu recording with Lalgudi and seeing how much he enjoys the music he creates just makes me weep. Can there ever be musicians like this again? https://archive.org/details/Somu-LGJ-Raghu

Listen to the tha-ka-tha-di sarvalaghu that he plays for "Rama Nee pai". Follow this train as he develops this right into the charanam. Here you can almost hear the thoppi being bent in pitch (like a tavil vidwan would with a stick on the tough exterior). I found this to be so beautiful (with somu showing no shortage in the appreciation department, watch out for the special ayyo after the pallavi).

But this style of playing is not typically found in the TVI school at at all. Here is a version of TKM accompanying DKJ for the same song, the approach is completely different. The thoppi embellishments are not there, but the tavil style power play in still somewhat apparent https://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubramaniam/dkj-tkm

I hope this will serve as a basis for further discussion on these influences and contrasts between the schools.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

Dear Mahavishnu,
I was VERY MOVED BY YOUR REFERENCES TO PALGHAT RAGHU ( HE told me in my NYC APT that if he played "nam" a thousand times he could get it right only once!) & SOMU-LGJ (My last serious discussion with LGJ INVOLVED SOMU & EXCITED ME with his astute observations) WHICH HAS MADE ME SHED TEARS & I am unable to write anything here now.....Your analysis about Thavil is BRILLIANT. Some other time I will write my reactions....VKV

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

Ramesh, thats a lovely post. One point always intrigued me for so many years now. My opinion is that since there are so many off-shoots/ Variations in style/ Individual artistry creeping in/ Other external influences/ within a parent school itself, it becomes highly tricky for a rasika to generalize and define the style of a particular school. One idea is to associate the parent school with that of a great vidhwAn from that school. (Just for an understanding, PMI's thanjAvur style is so very different from UKS' thanjAvur style). I will try to delve upon a few points here in brief, which points to variations within the same school.

1. Accompaniment :: There are two opinions within the thanjAvur school itself. Playing for the krithi & playing the krithi itself on the Mrudangam. Each has its own reasons & justifications in advocating so and each one is challenging & beautiful in its own way. Couple of beautiful examples of playing for the krithi, which was already shared before sometime back. This ""heccarikagA rArA hE rAmacandra" of KVN-UKS is one example to start with. https://archive.org/details/KVN-MC-UKS
KVN's impeccable rendition of the same, UKS' unbelieveable anticipation takes this already soaring rendition to stratospheric heights. In the middle of all the embellishments, the accompaniment just gels so beautifully along with the singer. (pATTODa oTTi varaNam).

Another classic example https://archive.org/details/DKJUKS ... Just notice DKJ saying "Mani Iyer nyAbagam varudhu" (Am reminded of Mani Ier), when UKS highlights the 3-thalli edam of the krithi so beautifully with the phrase like "tha ka dhi na tha tha ki ta" ....

2. Sollu Development :: TS stresses on this explicitly in the video uploaded by Ramesh in his earlier post. The following sample illustrates exactly the same. https://archive.org/details/TrichySanka ... mentSample
It takes repeated listening to decipher what he is actually trying to do here. After couple of avarthanams of plain "Na dhin dhin na" and a couple of sollus here and there, the build up slowly starts from the basic sollu which forms the starting part of the korvai (Its so very tricky to notate that here). The atmosphere builds up slowly & slowly and then he unleashes the korvai. The sollus are built up with so much of precision & symmetry about them. The basic idea is to build a massive edifice & to create an aura about the korvai and then unleashing it in all its glory. It is like giving the hint to the listener as to what to expect; keep him excited with all these embellishments and then playing what the rasika actually has in mind. It creates so much of an excitement.

3. Arai chApu & Mrudangam as a nAdha vAdhyam :: UKS Sir once told me that Arai chApu must be heard from Arupathi Natesa Iyer & from Rangu Iyengar. (AvA vAshichi kekaNam da) and that he is still trying to reach that perfection. Again a shared recording earlier, I use the same to illustrate this point. https://archive.org/details/BMKAVRUKS1980sMysore
The thani is hardly 5-6 mins and no korvais except the final one. Just plain sollu development and its just beyond words.

So if you see, there are diverse influences within vidhwAns from the same school & also between schools. This is such an interesting and diverse topic, that it definitely deserves dedicated discussion and deliberation.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

I recall my memories when MMI used to urge UKS to give Arai Chapu often; UKS in his EARLY days used to do that a lot! VKV

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Ramesh and Semmu. Excellent posts, quite informative.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Well, Semmu. I, for one, am very glad that you didn't leave the forum ;)

The arrai chapu the way UKS does it is indeed special. I saw a lec-dem of his a few years ago with the physicists from CLRI. The scientists showed with basic windowed spectral analysis that there were so many higher harmonics that could be heard in his arrai chapu, not typically found in a less skilled player.

I was told by Vellore Ramabadran a few years ago that the only other person that he could have derived inspiration from for this style is Tanjavur Ramadasa Rao (guru of nonagenarian Madras Kannan). If someone could provide more details on this, it would be a great addition to this already excellent discussion.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

MMI told me about Azagha nambia pillai & Tanjavur Ramadasa Rao were experts in Arai Chappu & traced the MARATHA INFLUENCE in Carnatic music in MANY AREAS of Drumming. As I was an IGNORAMUS ( STILL I AM tho' trying to improve!) I did not catch the technical details. V.R. KNEW how dumb I was & knew better not to explain it except saying that in general he was told his playing- not with respect to Arai Chappu- resembled that of Azagha Nambia Pillai & that A.N.P. apparently did not indulge in too much Kanakku-). As a result of these meanderings on my part I ENDED UP LEARNING MRIDANGAM & as my Physics came in the way & I was desperately trying to impress Prof. Alladi Ramakrishnan who packed me off to USA I did not note down these VERY VALUABLE TECHNICAL POINTS ETC. One other person who I talked about the MARATHA influences was DR.Prameela Gurumoorthy(whose thesis was on Harikatha) but did not specifically discuss Arai Chapu as my IGNORANCE LEVEL EXCEEDED justifying wasting her time! May be Semmu or Mahasvishnu can sound her out. Also I did talk to SMT. Kamala Moorthy in general again about the Maharastrian influences in Carnatic music Drumming etc but not at a high level. One of the points so far missing in this discussion is for example Thanjavur Vaidyanatha Iyer (P.M.I. & T.K.M'S GURU) is supposed to have incorporated some of the Marathi stuff into his approach etc. Luckily Harimau was not around to object & make jokes I guess. May be either of the technical experts here can talk to T.K.M. about it. Madras a Kannan lives very near M.A. & is very approachable too.. I am going to request my class mate, fellow theoretical physicist & MDR' disciple Prof . V.Radhakrishnan to ask T.K.M. about this & will duly report.
As the discussion gets more & more technical I am writing more about Historical & BIG PICTURE approach to the discussions as I am sure there are some who might be interested in this area too. VKV :-\

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

mahavishnu wrote: Tanjavur Ramadasa Rao (guru of nonagenarian Madras Kannan).
Shri B.M.Sundaram once told me that the arai chApu of Ramadasa Rao was also equally lethal & famous in its own way. I was told that PMI & PSP used to attend the concerts of Ramadasa Rao frequently. Shri Kalidas also mentioned about this in his lecture. Generation wise, am not sure as to where he gets placed. Maybe a tad senior to PMI &PSP, but in the immediate genaration after vidwAns like TVI, Rangu Iyengar etc...
cacm wrote:One of the points so far missing in this discussion is for example Thanjavur Vaidyanatha Iyer (P.M.I. & T.K.M'S GURU) is supposed to have incorporated some of the Marathi stuff into his approach etc.
Many experts have cited the Marathi influence in the thanjAvur style of drumming. But am yet to come across any concrete stuff on this, as to what types of sollus/ patterns that have got influenced. The earliest form of accompaniment was to harikathas, bhajans etc.. Of course, especially harikatha has come into TN from the Marathis. Harikatha in Marathi was called by the name "Keerthan" & its practitioners, "keerthankArs". Narayanaswamy Appa I was told used to accompany frequently for Marathi Bhajan sessions & harikatha. It is also on record that vidwAns like UKS, TKM have accompanied Embar Vijayaraghavachariar frequently. Shri. Kalidas made an interesting point that, TVI has accompanied for many of the dance programmes of Shri. Thanjavur Upendran's mother.

So, there are lot of stuff scattered out here & there and its quite tricky & challenging to collate them together. Maybe that we have travelled so far in time, it becomes tricky to trace as to what the exact influences of Marathis were, as most of the stuff what we get to hear are all "Hear Say".

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

Yes. I have tried very hard to actually to locate Marathi artists from Maharashtra (ever since S.Rajam told me that MVI used to come to his Nadu street home just before his concerts many times & listen to Kumara Ghandarva the Marathi singer who also got Sangitha Nataka Academy award THE SAME YEAR as MVI) BUT found I just could not communicate in the music language we know with them!. Also I dont know enough! However the Harikatha performers all claim its all there..... Just want add that PMI has also played for Harikatha. VKV

uday_shankar
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by uday_shankar »

semmu86 wrote:Arai chApu must be heard from Arupathi Natesa Iyer & from Rangu Iyengar.
One more example...Chitravina Ravikiran once told me that the late Palghat Ramachandra Iyer, the highly gifted by reclusve brother of the late Palghat Sundaram, had an absolutely delectable arai chappu worth dying for, among other things. Also remember hearing that his style of keezh kala accompaniment was unmatched and that his posture was majestic (as I find UKS's posture too). Apparently, he used to frequent the young Ravikiran's household and informally accompany him. Ramachandra Iyer disappeared from the concert scene, to drift into a spiritual quest that took him to Tirupathi and elsewhere. The ghatam maestro Subash Chandran has told me that he has learned some korvais from Ramachandra Iyer.

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

cacm wrote:One other person who I talked about the MARATHA influences was DR.Prameela Gurumoorthy(whose thesis was on Harikatha) but did not specifically discuss Arai Chapu as my IGNORANCE LEVEL EXCEEDED justifying wasting her time! May be Semmu or Mahasvishnu can sound her out. Also I did talk to SMT. Kamala Moorthy in general again about the Maharastrian influences in Carnatic music Drumming etc but not at a high level.
I happened to talk to Kalyanapuram Sri. Aaravamudachariar a few days back in general & suddenly broached this topic to him. Sharing here, the info passed onto me by him. This is more specifically about Marathian influence in harikatha, than does the subject matter.

"During the 17th and the 18th century, the Marathi Harikatha was introduced in Thanjavur. The growth of Harikatha was further helped by the Hindu saint Samartha Ramdas Swami (Who inturn happened to be the guru of Chatrapathi Shivaji) who established his Mutt in 1663 in Thanjavur. His disciples such as Bhimaraja Goswami conducted keertans and bhajans in the Mutt regularly. During the late 17th century, many other Maratha keerthankars helped popularise the Harikatha style. One of the early pioneers of Harikatha in Tamil Nadu was Thanjavur Krishna Bhagavatar (1847 - 1903), who wanted to improve the Kalakshepa style.

The Marathi Keertan, or Harikatha were of two types: Varkari and Narada. The Varkari style consisted of singing various compositions of Marathi saints. These songs were accompanied by explanations of these songs. There was no appreciable story telling in this style. The Narada style, which became popular in the Thanjavur court, gave importance to stories from prominent epics. Thanjavur Krishna Bhagavatar adapted the Marathi metrical compositions used in stories to highlight the mood and the characters, most of them with Mrudangam accompaniment"


Maybe, my inference from this is, Vidwans like Narayanaswamy Appa, TVI etc should have been a frequent accompaniment for this bhajans & harikatha programmes and hence the Marathian influence in the Thanjavur school of drumming.

cacm
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by cacm »

THOSE INTERESTED should buy&read Dr. Pramila Gurumoorthy's book on Harikatha Kalashepam (based on her Ph.D Thesis) which has WELL RESEARCHED accounts of this subject area. I will try to collect the remarks by Prameela, S.Rajam & Kamala murthy when I video taped her at VVS'S house for a week a few years back. VKV

MaheshS
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by MaheshS »

Vidwan Madras Kannan Lec-Dem. About 4:30 in this lec-dem, Prof TRS asks about chapu, arai chapu and kaal chapu.

anand_900315
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by anand_900315 »

Very interesting discussion on the mridangam styles and very nice exchange of information and it feels almost like a Lec-Dem. I am happy to inform that Sri Rama Lalitha Kala Mandira (SRLKM) will be publishing the full lecture in their forthcoming magazine. The same will be made available to this forum. The scope will be how mridangam came in to being and birth of the two schools and the people associated in the line with the intent.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Thank you, Anand. Look forward to it!
How does one get a hold of this magazine?

anand_900315
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by anand_900315 »

eMagazine will be available on their website for download around 10th of Jan. I will also notify the forum at that time.

anand_900315
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by anand_900315 »

Happy Sankranti/Happy Pongal,

The eMag of Sri Rama Lalitha Kala Mandira is on their website now. Please download and read at your leisure. It is a bit bulky so give few minutes for the download.

Follow the link below;
http://www.srlkmandira.org/newsletters/ ... an2014.pdf

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Thank you kindly.

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

Thank you Anand.

semmu86
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by semmu86 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_HdN6DIZrA&spfreload=5

The full video of the lecture, in youtube now.

mahavishnu
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by mahavishnu »

Thank you, Semmu!

SrinathK
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by SrinathK »

Speaking of evolution - this link I've shared elsewhere as well, but I never get tired of it. Listen to Palghat Raghu here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEQaC078CI8

What happens when PMI and PSP get combined into one player?

talalaya
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by talalaya »

Gem of a thread, fantastic discussions! I don't think even in lec-dems of great artists, has the distinct aspects of Thanjavur and Pudukkottai Styles have come out and have been put forward in such detail.

talalaya
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Re: Evolution of Mrudangam Schools in South India

Post by talalaya »

semmu86 wrote: 04 Dec 2013, 10:32
kappi wrote:Very interesting discussion.
Let me try to convey my point briefly. After learning several of the Tanjore style korvais and cholkettus, it has become quite evident to me that there isn't much difference between the Tanjore and the Pudukottai styles. There are indeed differences, if one is in the pursuit of establishing them
There are indeed striking differences between the schools & as you rightly said later, it is tough to make out the differences on accompaniment alone and usually, the thani avarthanam will be the give away. Having said that, one can still make out the vidwan who is playing (UKS/ TS/ PRR etc) based on accompaniment also, for they have stamped their individuality to such great extents. Hallmark of greats.

Coming to the differences, I will try to make it brief. Basic Laya Patterns remain the same, irrespective of schools & gurus. The differences come in the methodology of handling them, the approach & in their diverse fingering techniques. Lets take a simple thisram for example. The approach varies between Tanjore and the Pudukottai styles. Tanjore school on one hand stresses on making it more obvious at the beginning itself with stamdard patterns and then improvising on the same. Pudukottai school has the "keezkaala" thisram approach (Dosent mean that Tanjore school does not play this), but it is more prevalent here. TS has even improvised upon this by playing "keezkaala" thisram in misra chApu and there are recordings where he has played "keezkaala" khanDam also (He demonstrated this during his lec-dem at the MA in the 2008 season.) Strikingly beautiful. At the end of the day, both are thisram & khandam only, but the approach and the tailor made sollus & korvais by the greats (TVI, Arupathi Natesa Iyer, Rangu Iyengar, PSP, Dakshinamurthy Pillai etc is what gives out the identity of the school)

Kuraippu Patterns :: Tanjore school sticks to a not-very-complicated misra kuraippu in chatusra nadai in most of the cases. Pudukottai school (Esp I have heard TS) play some fascinating ones like khanda koraippu in thisra nadai, misra kuraippu in khanda nadai etc... Again a striking difference which can easily be made out.

Mohra Korvais :: Grapevine has it that it was actually Mammondia Pillai who conceptualized the termination of the thani avarthanam with a final mohra & korvai. Since i have heard many contradictory versions on this, am not in a position to comment. But the point is, both these schools have distinct mohras-korvais, which is again the give away of the identity. You can find a treasure house of Tanjore school mohra-korvais in the Mrudanga Chintamani & mohra-korvai DVD's of UKS.

kappi wrote:Thus this whole partitioning of styles into Tanjore-Pudukottai diad doesn't really reflect the reality;
On the contrary, I actually feel that it does. Maybe since that we have a galaxy of Mrudangam artists today & that there is so many mix & match happening in their playing, we fail to get that impression of an unique school, coming out of their playing.
Brilliant summary!! It takes decades of dedicated listening, practice and training under a Guru to elucidate so fluently the points that you have written. Are you a student of Laya by any chance?

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