Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

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Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

Vocal : K.N Shashikiran and Chitravina P Ganesh
Violin : V.V.S Murari
Mridangam : Tanjavoor Murugabhoopathi

1. Srimannarayana - Bowli - Adi - Annamacharya (Kalpanaswaras)
2. Sadhinchine - Arabhi - Adi - Thyagaraja
3. Entha veduko - Saraswathi Manohari- Adi - Thyagaraja
4. Ranganayakam - Nayaki-Adi -Muthuswami Dikshitar
5. Pavana guru -Hamsanandi - Roopaka - Lalitha Dasar- (Alapana followed by V.V.S. on the violin. Neraval at 'Jeevana Dhara sankasham', Kalpanaswaras)
6. Narayana ninna -Shudha Dhanyasi- Mishra chapu - Purandaradasa
7. Niravadi sukhada - Ravi Chandrika-Adi- Thyagaraja
8. Kalyana Rama- Hamsanadam- Adi - Oothukadu Venkatasubbiyer - (Alapana followed by V.V.S on the violin), neraval and kalpanaswaras at 'Raghava Rama' followed by Tani)
9. Garuda Gamana- Hindolam- Roopaka -Annamacharya
10. Narahari Vesha- Surya -Adi - Rukmini Ramani
11. Ragi thandeera - Adi - Purandaradasa
12. Rama rama - Chandrajyoti- Adi - ?
13. Dashavatara Mangalam- Madhyamavati -Adi


It was one of the finest concerts of the Carnatica brothers. The brothers brought out the raga bhavam eloquently. Their manodharmam stood out for the alapanas, neraval and swarams in both Hamsanandi and Hamsanadam. Every note was soaked in the ragas they rendered. Sri. Shashikiran's soulful alapana especially in Hamsanandi was a treat. Sri. Ganesh's affinity towards thara sthayi is quite evident in most of his concerts. He ventures effortlessly into thara sthayi without showing any signs of strain in his voice. They glided between the ragas and intricate korvais with ease. Purandara Dasa's Ragi Thandeera was peppy followed by the meditative bhajan in ragam Chandrajyoti. The conversations between them and the accompanying artists were entertaining. Both Sri. V.V.S. Murari and Sri. Murugabhoopathi showed their craftsmanship in their respective instruments.

arunsri
Posts: 249
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 13:07

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by arunsri »

While I agree that 'lists' do not reveal the quality of concert, it does definitely reveal many other things.... This concert, as with several other earlier concert lists are but renditions that can be done by a serious music student with 6-7 years of good training from a good guru! Manodharmam is relegated to merely two raga alapanas, that too of ragas like hamsAnandi and hamsanAdam, neither of which require great skill or vidwat. They have their place in CM, but these are by no yardstick a measure of vidwat of the artistes.

With the lineage from which these Bros come, is this a list even a small representative of what their school stands for? And this concert is not the only one. A random search of their concerts both here and US reveal mediocre to sub pedestrian lists. What is the use of learning kritis like Ninnu Sevinchina, Gajavadana Sammoditha, Inkevvaru UnnArru, kAnthimati karuNA, Koniyadina nApai etc... if these is NEVER sung in concerts?

Don't you artistes have a role in refining the tastes of listeners? Are you to cater ONLY to the lowest common denominator always, because that is the easiest thing to do for you? Aren't you yourself bored of singing the same stuff over and over again? Is there no desire to challenge yourself intellectually? Why can't you have a mix of some of these oft rendered stuff and atleast a couple of weighty kritis.

Singing RTP with mela numbers corresponding to date/day/month year total etc is not the only scholarly stuff that is expected of 'senior' artistes who come from an enviable lineage!

I have ranted about this before (same artistes) and did not want to do so again, but could n't resist.. These type of artistes think rasikas do not care...only collections matter. that may be the case for Sabhas, not us. but they need to realise that rasikas DO care. Just as you have an expectation from a concert -- rasikas also do.. you cannot take them for granted. This is not only with these Bros, but several others who cater only to the LCD.

arunsri
Posts: 249
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 13:07

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by arunsri »

BTW nArAyaNa is in khaNDa chApu

I cannot agree to the logic that this was a concert at Ahobila Matham, so the choice was limited.

shashikiran
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 00:36

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by shashikiran »

Dear Arunsri,
Thanks . Posted my response below.
Last edited by shashikiran on 08 Apr 2018, 09:47, edited 1 time in total.

shashikiran
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 00:36

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by shashikiran »

Dear Arunsri,
Thanks for your detailed post. I do respect your post and also your likes or dislikes about artistes here. I am choosing to post this only because it brought about our lineage.
We sing about 125 concerts a year on an average and I guess this forum has reviewed probably 2 or 3 a year max.
The kind of compostions listed by you were sung as recently as our concert in this year s Cleveland festival on 5th April in fact a couple of days before your post , which had suruti varnam, sanatana, ekkalathilum, inkevarunnaru, ambaparadevate, enne punniyam huseni, thulasi bilva etc . Mostly all of the compostions listed by you plus more of the Dhanammal or Naina Pillai tradition songs have been part.of our concerts and which also includes padams and javalis . But it is good to note discerning rasikas like you desire these compostions . All that i woukd like to state is , artistes who work 16 to 18 hours on music domt take music lightly, forget about taking a rasika lightly. We are in music because we love music. We are not the artistes who have really cared for laurels or credits. The pallavis and other songs we do sing as and when warranted , amd if we feel appropriate. We dont sing ant composition thinking of diluting music. There are places and times we feel as artistes and render those . But that does not mean the other compostions or lost pieces. Ninnu sevimcima, inkeverunnaru, gajavadana. Marimari ninne, mumoorthulu, etc are being sung.quite often .But interesting that you did not want to even mention ramganayakam - and chose to dwell only about hamsa ragas . Anyways, i am.not responding to counter your views. But as students of music , irrespective of 6 or 40 years of training , music is primary to us. And we do care about it as much as our lives . I admire you as a passionate connoisseur. We may not be your choice but good to see your interest in vintage pieces . Pranams .

vijay.siddharth
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:08

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by vijay.siddharth »

Shashikiran-ji,

Namaskaram. Could you please clarify what do you mean by 'Hamsa' Ragas?

rajeshnat
Posts: 9907
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by rajeshnat »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 08 Apr 2018, 09:47 Shashikiran-ji,

Namaskaram. Could you please clarify what do you mean by 'Hamsa' Ragas?
Hamsa ragas is not some concept . The ragas that start with the phrase hamsa , in this case the hamsanandi(pavana guru) and hamsanadam(kalyana rama) , that is all . We also have hamsadhwani and hamsavinodhini also as part of 4 hamsa ragas . There are (is) musician who have tried 4 hamsa ragas

rajeshnat
Posts: 9907
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by rajeshnat »

Sashi
Tx for your respsone . Personally I like hamsanadam and the day when i heard for the first time TN Seshagopalan and one or two musicians singing hamsanadam as main or submain . i got the swaroopam of hamsanadam so much with S kalyanaraman and TNS and few more of your contemporaries.

Having said that I always felt you have not taken that too many Big 5 as Main ragas . i just did a cursory search of your few concerts here in rasikas and I have seen posts of you only singing bhairavi(amba kamAkshi). Have you ever sung other big main krithis in big 5 ragas with a clear focus of singing that as a detailed main , possibly you have not done or it was too very little times . 99% of musician cannot get everything and 1 % musicians do give that big 5 vistara antastu and quite frankly you are not there in 1%. There are more musicians whom I adore in 99% than 1% so this statement is not very judgemental at all that you fit in 99% . CM is way too complex to box it up with functional aesthetics

Arunsri
I generally see this pattern of not including BIG 7 (Big 5 + Saveri + Madhyamavati)as a kind of sin particularly not taking main. I also see at times my friends CRama and SRK (more big 5 paithiyam ) also kind of insisting that as a BIG tick . I personally think it does not matter. In all these reviews to an extent if some one tells how long the concert was and also perhaps tell say hamsanadam alapana for 15 mins with 6 mins violin return(case 1) vs hamasanadam alapana 4 mins with 2 mins violin return (case 2)that would be lovely too.If it was case 2 then arunsri you may be right that there is no elaboration. I am assuming you are a part time musician but your inputs do have merit too based on the posts that you did in the past. I only know atlanta airport and I dont know ahobila mutt in atlanta i am assuming this is a 2 to 2.5 hour concert or it could have been a 1 hr 45 mins concert with 15 mins speech and prizes for the upcoming kids of atlanta (Enna Puzhappu dA sAmi ithu ). Tanjore Murugabhoopathi is an adjusting friend he would have not played a 25 min tani for sure is my most Positive guess

Suneha or Sashi,
How long was the concert - not nitpicking at all( Dear Mr Bilahari i am connecting with another NaajeevadHAra thread ). As a prerequisite atleast CM can have structural foundation of time to give more chances for functional aesthetics (outliers are very few)

arunsri
Posts: 249
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 13:07

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by arunsri »

Dear Shri Shashikiran

I have nothing against you or you as a performing duo. In fact, Sri. Ravikiran's music is something that I would go any extent to listen to. I am more tan 100% sure that you do sing concerts with great set lists as done in Cleveland on 5th April 2018, and at several other venues.

There is nothing wrong with any of the songs that you have sung. In fact, that is why I have not mentioned Ranganayakam. My aim is not to belittle a kriti or composer.. the point was (were) the following

1. Can this be a list indicative of your pathantharam---answer is NO
2. Are there any kriti or kritis in this list that are representative of your school --- answer is NO

A concert list in my opinion is TO HAVE atleast a couple of kritis that are sung almost exclusively by your school. We as audience, make a wish list of which artiste we attend, based on our experience both in prior concert(s) and what we read about in the print and Electronic media, even song lists are serious indicators for us audience. That is what we look forward to in a concert. A crude analogy is going to an Udupi restaurant and not finding any bisiblebath or its variant on the menu. One would not be suprised if we did not find bisibele item in a Gujarati or Punjabi restaurant!

One last statement: The school you represent cannot be presented by one and all. But the list that you have presented can be sung by any random artiste with an above mediocre training. There are artistes who have diluted their music significantly from where they came from, and present the same diluted version irrespective of when/where they sing. There is no use telling or talking about them as it will not make any difference to them.
In your case, that is not the case. Hence, the rant!

Thank you for your response. Regards

Sachi_R
Posts: 2174
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 20:20

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Sachi_R »

(Vijay,
KNSK was referring to the comment
Manodharmam is relegated to merely two raga alapanas, that too of ragas like hamsAnandi and hamsanAdam, neither of which require great skill or vidwat.
)

I have no comment on the song list here but I would say this duo stands out for me for two aspects:
1. Shashikiran stands out for me for the sheer scope of programmes he manages to organise every year. I think he is simply unique in the artiste community for doing so much. And belonging to the lineage he does, I have NO doubt he can go as heavy in his music as anyone else.
2. Chitraveena Ganesh has impressed me NO end with his Chitraveena concerts I caught on the TV/web. I would rate him as one of the top most instrumentalists today.
So when the duo decide to perform vocal concerts, I feel they have no dearth of competence or imagination to pitch it the way they want - heavy/light, rare/popular, tough/easy numbers.

The fact that Shashikiran actually responded so quickly shows something - he would be happy to engage with audiences. That is a happy trend, isn't it?

Sivaramakrishnan
Posts: 1582
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 08:29

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Sachi_R wrote: 08 Apr 2018, 16:13
1. Shashikiran stands out for me for the sheer scope of programmes he manages to organise every year. I think he is simply unique in the artiste community for doing so much. And belonging to the lineage he does, I have NO doubt he can go as heavy in his music as anyone else.

2. Chitraveena Ganesh has impressed me NO end with his Chitraveena concerts I caught on the TV/web. I would rate him as one of the top most instrumentalists today.
So when the duo decide to perform vocal concerts, I feel they have no dearth of competence or imagination to pitch it the way they want - heavy/light, rare/popular, tough/easy numbers.

The fact that Shashikiran actually responded so quickly shows something - he would be happy to engage with audiences.
Can't agree more with you, Sachi.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Post by arasi »

Ramakrishnan and Sachi,
Yes. Shashi is such an easy person to connect with. This super organizer-communicator indeed stands tall among musicians, with his vibrant personality. He does not cease to think of ways by which he can bring musicians together. His flair and hard work often result in interesting collaborations. What he does at Cleveland too, is something impressive, to say the least.

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

arunsri wrote: 07 Apr 2018, 21:23 While I agree that 'lists' do not reveal the quality of concert, it does definitely reveal many other things.... This concert, as with several other earlier concert lists are but renditions that can be done by a serious music student with 6-7 years of good training from a good guru! Manodharmam is relegated to merely two raga alapanas, that too of ragas like hamsAnandi and hamsanAdam, neither of which require great skill or vidwat. They have their place in CM, but these are by no yardstick a measure of vidwat of the artistes.

With the lineage from which these Bros come, is this a list even a small representative of what their school stands for? And this concert is not the only one. A random search of their concerts both here and US reveal mediocre to sub pedestrian lists. What is the use of learning kritis like Ninnu Sevinchina, Gajavadana Sammoditha, Inkevvaru UnnArru, kAnthimati karuNA, Koniyadina nApai etc... if these is NEVER sung in concerts?

Don't you artistes have a role in refining the tastes of listeners? Are you to cater ONLY to the lowest common denominator always, because that is the easiest thing to do for you? Aren't you yourself bored of singing the same stuff over and over again? Is there no desire to challenge yourself intellectually? Why can't you have a mix of some of these oft rendered stuff and atleast a couple of weighty kritis.

Singing RTP with mela numbers corresponding to date/day/month year total etc is not the only scholarly stuff that is expected of 'senior' artistes who come from an enviable lineage!

I have ranted about this before (same artistes) and did not want to do so again, but could n't resist.. These type of artistes think rasikas do not care...only collections matter. that may be the case for Sabhas, not us. but they need to realise that rasikas DO care. Just as you have an expectation from a concert -- rasikas also do.. you cannot take them for granted. This is not only with these Bros, but several others who cater only to the LCD.

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

rajeshnat wrote: 08 Apr 2018, 10:12
vijay.siddharth wrote: 08 Apr 2018, 09:47 Shashikiran-ji,

Namaskaram. Could you please clarify what do you mean by 'Hamsa' Ragas?
Hamsa ragas is not some concept . The ragas that start with the phrase hamsa , in this case the hamsanandi(pavana guru) and hamsanadam(kalyana rama) , that is all . We also have hamsadhwani and hamsavinodhini also as part of 4 hamsa ragas . There are (is) musician who have tried 4 hamsa ragas

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

The concert lasted for about two and half hours without any interruptions. There were no other events going on other than their concert that day.
Last edited by Suneha on 09 Apr 2018, 21:06, edited 2 times in total.

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

Suneha wrote: 09 Apr 2018, 11:40
arunsri wrote: 07 Apr 2018, 21:23
Last edited by Suneha on 09 Apr 2018, 18:44, edited 1 time in total.

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

Suneha wrote: 09 Apr 2018, 12:04
Suneha wrote: 09 Apr 2018, 11:40
arunsri wrote: 07 Apr 2018, 21:23
Last edited by Suneha on 09 Apr 2018, 18:44, edited 1 time in total.

MadhavRayaprolu
Posts: 63
Joined: 18 Jan 2018, 13:04

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by MadhavRayaprolu »

Very nice of Shri Shashikiran to post here. His dedication to music is well known. His post here also shows his care for rasikas, even if someone disagreed with his choice of the performance pieces.

Suneha
Posts: 38
Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 15:32

Re: Carnatica Brothers, Ahobila Mutt, Atlanta, April 1st, 2018

Post by Suneha »

arunsri wrote: 07 Apr 2018, 21:23 While I agree that 'lists' do not reveal the quality of concert, it does definitely reveal many other things.... This concert, as with several other earlier concert lists are but renditions that can be done by a serious music student with 6-7 years of good training from a good guru! Manodharmam is relegated to merely two raga alapanas, that too of ragas like hamsAnandi and hamsanAdam, neither of which require great skill or vidwat. They have their place in CM, but these are by no yardstick a measure of vidwat of the artistes.

With the lineage from which these Bros come, is this a list even a small representative of what their school stands for? And this concert is not the only one. A random search of their concerts both here and US reveal mediocre to sub pedestrian lists. What is the use of learning kritis like Ninnu Sevinchina, Gajavadana Sammoditha, Inkevvaru UnnArru, kAnthimati karuNA, Koniyadina nApai etc... if these is NEVER sung in concerts?

Don't you artistes have a role in refining the tastes of listeners? Are you to cater ONLY to the lowest common denominator always, because that is the easiest thing to do for you? Aren't you yourself bored of singing the same stuff over and over again? Is there no desire to challenge yourself intellectually? Why can't you have a mix of some of these oft rendered stuff and atleast a couple of weighty kritis.

Singing RTP with mela numbers corresponding to date/day/month year total etc is not the only scholarly stuff that is expected of 'senior' artistes who come from an enviable lineage!

I have ranted about this before (same artistes) and did not want to do so again, but could n't resist.. These type of artistes think rasikas do not care...only collections matter. that may be the case for Sabhas, not us. but they need to realise that rasikas DO care. Just as you have an expectation from a concert -- rasikas also do.. you cannot take them for granted. This is not only with these Bros, but several others who cater only to the LCD.

This concert received a standing ovation from an audience consisting of hard core Carnatic music connoisseurs, teachers and students and NOT from a musically uneducated crowd. This shows that they loved not just the selection of songs but also the quality of music exhibited that day. Let me mention here that some of the songs they rendered were of listner’s choice.
I haven’t mentioned that their selection of songs was limited just because they performed in Ahobila Mutt.
Last edited by Suneha on 09 Apr 2018, 14:17, edited 1 time in total.

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