Pallavi darbar 2018

Swami · Post by **Swami** » 01 Jul 2018, 10:56

Pallavi Darbar 30-06-2018

Abhishek Raghuram
HN Baskar
Patri Satish kumar
B. Sundarkumar

1. Short ragam , pallavi in Nattaikurunji set to Khanda jhampa
chakkani swamiki manchi samayamura nedu

2. dhenuka ragam , short tanam , pallavi penned by Dr pantulu Rama set to khanda chapu
Ni sari samana mevaru
dayasharathey Daasharathe

3. ragam , shankarabharanam , tanam - set to adi thalam
sama gana lolane
sadashiva shankarane dayakarane

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 01 Jul 2018, 16:43

*Incredible, high-voltage rendition. Absolute grip over Sruti and laya.
*AR had the fortune of being listened to by his Guru Sri P S Narayanaswami and Sri Madurai T N Seshagopalan in the audience.
(Earlier, TNS gave a brief lecdem on the scope of RTP)
*An enviably big yet sensitised audience.
*Dhenuka alapana as well as Pallavi had a few flashes of Graha bheda (or the like) that needs some tips to understand. I request forumites to help out.

(I had to leave after Dhenuka)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Jul 2018, 16:44

I did not go to this concert but I was told Abhi and Team sang from 7pm to 10 pm. I assumed that there was just one pallavi,I wish I had known atleast attending after some family function i could have come to taste half point of dhenuka and sankarabharanam. Does any one know if there were ragamaliga swaras for each of the RTP, do let us know.
Kudos to Carnatica and Abhi and team to take it to 10 pm .(if my source is right)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Jul 2018, 16:46

SRK,
I was told that he did a bedham from dhenuka to shanmughapriya, not sure if that is right.
Can you write some words on what you heard from the previous lecdem of tns

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 01 Jul 2018, 17:26

Please see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31462 about the Denuka RTP of Abhishek Raghuram.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 01 Jul 2018, 18:07

rajeshnat wrote: ↑01 Jul 2018, 16:46 SRK,
I was told that he did a bedham from dhenuka to shanmughapriya, not sure if that is right.
Can you write some words on what you heard from the previous lecdem of tns

*If at all Shanmughapriya, the swaroopa was not complete. He 'flashed' the bhedam while winding up the Taanam and later during a couple of phrases during neraval. The picture would have been clearer had he indicated it during swaraprastaara!

*Sorry, I do not recollect the sahityas of Pallavi-s demonstrated by TNS.
(Waiting for Carnatica's YouTube releases! See, how technology makes us dependent on it)

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 01 Jul 2018, 19:07

Scope of Pallavis- Lec dem by Mahavidwan T.N.Seshagopalan
It was a very enriching and absorbing lec dem by the Mahavidwan. The huge audience relished every moment of the lec dem. I did not take any note. Since Rajesh has requested, I will try to post whatever I recollect.
• RTP is an acid test for any musician.

• RTP enchances the stature of a concert. It is possible to sing RTP as the centre piece in a two or two and hours concert. All the aspects of the pallavi- raga alapana, tanam, neraval, swarams, trikalam everything should be given due prominence while execution.

• Sangeeta Rathnakara defines the method of singing raga alapana for pallavi. The structure of the alapana for a pallavi will be different from that for a kriti.

• If RTP is presented with due weight and aesthetics, audience will definitely relish it. There is no meaning in blaming the audience preference to avoid singing RTP. He quoted an instance. In 1987, TNS sang 40 concerts in Russia- each concert of one and half hours or so. In all the concerts, he presented a RTP. After the concerts, many of Russians there complimented him for the RTP not for any kriti or tukkada he rendered.

• In some point of time, some sabhas in small towns have said- please avoid RTPs. Our audience will not relish. But TNS did not have any such embarrassing situation.

• He said that in olden days, RTP used to be embedded in Harikatha also. His Paramaguru Harikesanallur Muthiah Bhagvatar was a pioneer in this respect.

• He also elaborated about the pallavi playing by Nagaswara Vidwans.

• Yesterday happened to be Muthiah Bhagavatar’s remembrance day. So he sang a spontaneous pallavi in honour of Muthiah Bhagavatar in Kalyani.
Sangeeta sastra Siromani
Gayaka Sikhamani.

• He sang the pallavi defining the Pallavi- Padathirkaga pa Layathirkaga la………. In Kalyani.

• He sang many pallavis which he has rendered in concerts.

• When he made a pallavi in Kamalamanohari, many vidwans raised their brows- how can you sing a pallavi in Kamalamanohari. Then TNS argued- Fifty years back, a great vidwan has sang a pallavi in Jaganmohini which is celebrated now. Then why not Kamalamanohari. When he sang the pallavi, it won adulation from all the great vidwans.

• When Madurai Mani and Palghat Mani Iyer centenary was celebrated, he sang a Dwinadai pallavi in Shanmugapriya in Cleveland coining both the names.

• He had sung pallavis when many of the musicans were given Sangeeta Kalanidhis embedding their name very intelligently in the pallavi. Eg. D.K.Jayaraman, T.K.Govinda Rao, Flute Ramani.

• He had formed many pallavis embedding he raga name like
Bhaktarukku sakha naan- sadguru nin malaradi paniyum parama- (Sahana)
• Ambaigai Jagadambigai Varaalitho- Srutiyodu layamum taralitho – (Varali)
• Veera Maruti- Gambheera Maruti…….. (Tilang)
• Another pallavi including Desh and Suruti

• Multi raga pallavi- Natai kurinji enbar

• Srutibhedam pallavi- Abhogi and Valaji, Hamsadhwani and Nagaswarali

• Swarakshara pallavi in Hindolam- But here the scope for neraval is limited.

• He advised students to avoid singing the pallavi of another song after the ragamalika swaram. Eg. Singing Enda muddo after a ragamalika swaram in that ragam.

• He also advised not to indulge in nadai bhedams in the varnams. There is pallavi for that.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 01 Jul 2018, 20:03

Abhishek Raghuram
The RTP in Natakurinji commenced straight with the pallavi.
The pallavi was in Mishra Jhampa.
TNS, in his lec dem mentioned about the importance of neraval. To substantiate that, Abhishek did exhaustive neraval for the pallavi which was full of raga bhava and imagination followed by elaborate swara prastaram. A wonderful presentation.

RTP in Denuka.
TNS rendered RTP in Denuka a fortnight back in BVB. I missed that. Abhishek would have attended that and got the inspiration for choosing Denuka. Today AR rendered a super RTP n Denuka. As Radha Bhaskar mentioned, we could never imagine that this ragam could give way to so much exploitation. The raga was much expansive and tanam was left to H.N.Bhaskar. With the best voice control, laya expertise, manodharmam, he presented the RTP in Khanda chapu very intelligently. There was no ragamalika swaram.

RTP in Shankarabharanam.
The ragam and tanam were very elaborately presented by AR. It took 35 minutes. The pallavi was in Adi talam. There was srutibhedam to Yamunakalyani. I left when the pallavi started.

The accompanists, being very seasoned vidwans lent excellent support.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 02 Jul 2018, 06:31

CRama wrote: ↑01 Jul 2018, 19:07 • If RTP is presented with due weight and aesthetics, audience will definitely relish it. There is no meaning in blaming the audience preference to avoid singing RTP. He quoted an instance. In 1987, TNS sang 40 concerts in Russia- each concert of one and half hours or so. In all the concerts, he presented a RTP. After the concerts, many of Russians there complimented him for the RTP not for any kriti or tukkada he rendered.

Hear Hear , infact audience will feel bit more relieved with RTP than having another 5 to 8 numbers

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 02 Jul 2018, 06:34

CRama wrote: ↑01 Jul 2018, 19:07 • When he made a pallavi in Kamalamanohari, many vidwans raised their brows- how can you sing a pallavi in Kamalamanohari. Then TNS argued- Fifty years back, a great vidwan has sang a pallavi in Jaganmohini which is celebrated now. Then why not Kamalamanohari. When he sang the pallavi, it won adulation from all the great vidwans.

THis was quoted by TNS few years back. The person who raised initially the slight objection for kamalamanohari pallavi was Late Critic Shri KS Mahadevan of Bombay (MKR sir's dad).

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 02 Jul 2018, 06:38

CRama wrote: ↑01 Jul 2018, 20:03 RTP in Denuka.
TNS rendered RTP in Denuka a fortnight back in BVB. I missed that. Abhishek would have attended that and got the inspiration for choosing Denuka. Today AR rendered a super RTP n Denuka.

RTP in Shankarabharanam.
The ragam and tanam were very elaborately presented by AR. It took 35 minutes. The pallavi was in Adi talam. There was srutibhedam to Yamunakalyani. I left when the pallavi started.

I dont think Abhishek attended that BVB concert where dhenuka was rendered . Possibly he read the review where TNS Dhenuka was mentioned along with Pantula rama reference of dhenuka

I heard when he sang shankarabharanam pallavi he did a mAliga in chalAnAttai, vasantha and nasikAbhooshani (Was that done in swaras or taanam , i dont know). Thank you crama for your review.

Swami · Post by **Swami** » 02 Jul 2018, 08:40

Ramakrishna Murty at Pallavi Darbar 2018

Ramakrishna Murty
Charumati raghuram
NC Bharadwaj

RTP Shanmukhapriya

Tiruvadiyai ninaipavarku oru kavalai illai ,
tillaiyil adidum ambalavana nin

Adi thalam misra nadai - set to 4 kalai , reduced to 2 kalai and then to 1 kalai

Graha bhedam to ravichandrika Durning alapana

Ragamalika : begada , kalavati , mohanakalyani

Swami · Post by **Swami** » 02 Jul 2018, 08:45

Sriranjani santanagopal
Sai Giridhar
Chandra Sekhar sarma

Kamas RTP ( at the time of Pallavi rendition I entered the hall so not sure.. )
Vennai tinna Chinna tanama
Slakyama sukhama

Ragamalika : Todi , mohanam , ganamurti , Shyam kalyan

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 03 Jul 2018, 13:05

Day 3 (02.07.2018)
Mylapore Fine Arts club

4 pm: Pallavi 'charcha' (samvaada) dedicated to D K Pattammal
Discussion led by Nithyasree Mahadevan
Participants: Amritha Murali, Gayathri Girish, Uma and Arun prakash

5.30 pm RTP concert by Akkarai sisters (Subalakshmi and Sornalatha)
Shanmukhapriya - Tisrajaati Ata Taala

7.30 pm RTP concert by Bharat Sundar
Mohanam - Margataalam (Chachaputa)

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 05 Jul 2018, 12:00

The videos of many Pallavi Durbar concerts have been uploaded in you tube.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 07 Jul 2018, 09:43

Akkarai Sisters

Forcing their way to be Vocalist Sisters Pair on the lines of RaGa sisters.Personally i like their Violin concerts.

Sachi_R · Post by **Sachi_R** » 07 Jul 2018, 10:54

I like Sriranjani's singing!

Postscript:

First time seeing a fluorescent blue-green peacock Tambura!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 08 Jul 2018, 21:02

இப்படி தலைவிரி கோலமாக வருவது ஏனோ?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 09 Jul 2018, 08:52

Hope you heard her sing!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 09 Jul 2018, 09:20

Yes,I have. She does sing well. That has no bearing with my question :தலைவிரி கோலமாக வருவது ? Is this the fashion in India now ?

I made this statement several days ago as a general comment on current dress trend among Indian women that I have noticed here in the US and regretfully in India also. I have since learned that Vidhushi Sriranjani could have a health related reason for not conforming to tradition in her hairstyle.
I stand corrected if I had offended her or her rasikas.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 09 Jul 2018, 09:34

I appeal to forumites not to remark on appearance of artists, especially Women. I have personally heard this in a discourse by Sri Jayarama Sarma, quoting Kanchi Paramacharya himself. So this is not my appeal actually.

Dharma Sastras exist to protect them first! If they feel protected , that is achievement enough. In fact the "text" of the dharma Sastra becomes secondary , and they tell us what is dharma. I based that on reading somebody from Sri Ramakrishna mission order post this :

http://narensmonk.blogspot.com/2016/03/ ... on-to.html

All our mythology may vanish, even our Vedas may depart, and our Sanskrit language may vanish for ever, but so long as there will be five Hindus living here, even if only speaking the most vulgar patois, there will be the story of Sita present. Mark my words: Sita has gone into the very vitals of our race. She is there in the blood of every Hindu man and woman; we are all children of Sita.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 09 Jul 2018, 09:35

Hearing her Pallavi - the taLA setting follows "mridanga yati" - she asked for names at the beginning - not sure what name was suggested at the end. Yet to get there. But I would name it MridangayAti tALam.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 09 Jul 2018, 19:10

shankarank wrote: ↑09 Jul 2018, 09:34I appeal to forumites not to remark on appearance of artists

Completely agree... this should be off limits, mods.

Jigyaasa · Post by **Jigyaasa** » 09 Jul 2018, 22:03

Swami wrote: ↑02 Jul 2018, 08:45 Kamas RTP ( at the time of Pallavi rendition I entered the hall so not sure.. )
Vennai tinna Chinna tanama
Slakyama sukhama

veNNai tinna chinna tanamA?
sukhamA SlAghyamA?

She mentioned that Sri T.N. Seshagopalan had introduced these two words to the pallavi's lyric to incorporate the rAga mudrA.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 10 Jul 2018, 04:10

Jigyaasa wrote: ↑09 Jul 2018, 22:03 veNNai tinna chinna tanamA?
sukhamA SlAghyamA?

Not sure if first line is a question - second line is definitley. And shd it be Vennai Thinnaaye chinna thanama ?? Words don't add up -Not sure if poetic license is used

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 10 Jul 2018, 06:40

What is wrong with vennai thinna chinnathanam? It is a correct construction. chinnathanama is question.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2018, 07:55

rAgA kamAs was neatly woven into the line. Great. 'cinnathanam' though may not be all that appealing a sentiment about kaNNan to some. He can be naughty, can be a teaser, but small-mindedness doesn't perhaps go with his persona. Another thing: TVS's veNNai tinna chinnak kaNNA vA is also lodged in our minds. Come, have some butter KaNNA! is appealing.
No comparisons at all. Both are by outstanding vidvAns. Besides, pallavi lines used to be quite nonsensical once. I think introducing the rAgA name cleverly in two words--especially when khamAs is no kalyANi or bhairavi to address! A nice touch!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 10 Jul 2018, 08:59

Please note my correction to my post No 20 regarding vidushi Sriranjani.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 10 Jul 2018, 10:10

kvchellappa wrote: ↑10 Jul 2018, 06:40 What is wrong with vennai thinna chinnathanam? It is a correct construction. chinnathanama is question.

vennai thinna chinnathanam is fine
vennai thinna chinnathanama - don't think this is correct - it shd be vennai thinnaye chinnathanama - sukhama slagyama

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 10 Jul 2018, 10:14

arasi wrote: ↑10 Jul 2018, 07:55 'cinnathanam' though may not be all that appealing a sentiment about kaNNan to some.

I don't have any issues with using that word for Krishna's behaviour because he stole the butter anyways. To me the first sentence does not make sense - I mean it is not perfect and from Sri TNS I expect total perfectness - he is a Tamil scholar. I think the words may have been mis-quoted here by mistake

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 10 Jul 2018, 10:24

HarishankarK wrote: ↑10 Jul 2018, 10:10
kvchellappa wrote: ↑10 Jul 2018, 06:40 What is wrong with vennai thinna chinnathanam? It is a correct construction. chinnathanama is question.
vennai thinna chinnathanam is fine
vennai thinna chinnathanama - don't think this is correct - it shd be vennai thinnaye chinnathanama - sukhama slagyama

cinnthanamaa thinnaye and slaghyamaa thinnaye would contradict, unless it is vanch pugazhcchi ani.
It stands to sense as sung.
Is it the smallness of eating butter? Is it affording you happiness? Is it slaghyam?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 10 Jul 2018, 10:31

On the question of chinnathanam, why can't we take it like this?
chinna means young also. We enjoy the pranks of Krishna as a toddler just as we would enjoy our children's pranks. Krishna steals and eats butter. A mother would be worried whether the child would develop any health issue, but not otherwise. She will enjoy the 'cinnathanam' babyhood.
Even otherwise, our bhakti concept covers all forms of approaching god, even hatred. Bhakthi has more intimacy than distance, difference and mere reverence. We have a number of instances where gods are ticked off in mock anger and sometimes even in dejection.
This line seems to have been a favourite, not with modern day reformists, but with orthodox and devout singers. Sri TNS is a parama bhakta, so too NSG and Sriranjani. The virasam felt by some has not struck them.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jul 2018, 18:13

As far as I am concerned, pallavi lines needn't be deliberated upon this much

They are merely the means to exhibit the skills of musicians in displaying their expertise in rAgA, tAnam and swarA singing. Certainly, the display of their strength in tALa.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 10 Jul 2018, 18:20

This pallavi is a time tested one sung by many past stalwarts in various ragam and talams. TNS himself had sung it in Sindubairavi. The modification is to coin Khama's.

Reg the chinnathanama, I also had thought about it much earlier. Because it is a pallavi, it has been accepted like that.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 11 Jul 2018, 10:29

It is colloquial-ization of veNNai tinRa cinnattanamA ( likely an adverbial participle - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adverbial_participle) .

Also ciRiya in formal tamizh is already colloquial-zed as cinna - with the intent of mellinam-ification ( contriving a soft consonant in place of hard). cinna rhymes also with tinna. There was a kaNNA unakku at the end.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 11 Jul 2018, 12:04

.
Please check this for earlier discussions on 'veNNai tinna cinna' :-
viewtopic.php?t=11288 and
viewtopic.php?t=27703

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 11 Jul 2018, 20:40

வெண்ணை தின்ன சின்னத்தனமா? To me it is a totally perfect correct tamil sentence (interrogative form ) befitting of TNS who has expertise in tamil vaishnavaite literature. Chinnathanam does not mean meanness only. but also sirupillaithanam childish act chinna kannan refers to small size not petty minded. No grown up adult would swallow balls of plain butter. It is poetic Nintha sthuthi (when it alludes the stealing act )andis apt to kannan.
Thinna is also correct usage ref உண்ணும் சோறு, தின்னும் வெற்றிலை as sung by an AjvAr.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 12 Jul 2018, 06:32

Ponbhairavi wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 20:40 வெண்ணை தின்ன சின்னத்தனமா? To me it is a totally perfect correct tamil sentence (interrogative form ) befitting of TNS who has expertise in tamil vaishnavaite literature. Chinnathanam does not mean meanness only. but also sirupillaithanam childish act chinna kannan refers to small size not petty minded. No grown up adult would swallow balls of plain butter. It is poetic Nintha sthuthi (when it alludes the stealing act )andis apt to kannan.
Thinna is also correct usage ref உண்ணும் சோறு, தின்னும் வெற்றிலை as sung by an AjvAr.

How about "Vennai thinnai chinnath thanamai"?

Perfectly grammatical, makes sense, and in addition has proper monai (Tamil word for rhyming of the ending syllable of the words).

Could that have morphed into "Vennai thinna chinnath thanama"?

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 12 Jul 2018, 12:05

“ vennai thinnai sinnath thanamai” written in tamil script will be வெண்ணெய் தின்னாய் சின்னத் தனமாய்
Of course it is grammatical and makes sense. But there is no interrogation to match the next two words( sugama ?, slagyama? )It will be possible to introduce the interrogation by intonation, but it will impose hurdles for the singer because தின்னாய் and தனமாய் are நெடில் Whereas the interevening வெண்ணெய்and சின்னத் are குறில்
TNS has preferred the adjacent alliteration of தின்னand சின்ன which is simple and elegant.When the prevalent version வெண்ணெய் தின்ன சின்னத்தனமா is correct , meaningful and lyrically flowing there isno need to go looking for possible alternative
The next word “ sugama ?” Indicates the maternal anxiety : “. Are you alright ( after having eaten that much of butter ? And the following word “silAkyama ?” Besides suggesting the raga kamas’s name by the first letter asks him is it desirable இதெல்லாம் தேவையா?
In my opinion, The pallavi lines are correct ,meaningful and apt.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jul 2018, 16:02

பாவம் பாடகர் ! பாவம் கண்ணன் ! எப்படி உருட்டி புரட்டி எடுக்கிறோம்? வெண்ணை தின்னாமல் இருந்திருக்கலாம் என்று கண்ணனும் இதைப் பாடாமல் இருந்திருக்கலாமே என்று பாடகரும் நினைக்கலாம்!
(Poor singer! Poor Kannan! How we haul them over coal? Kannan may regret having pinched and swallowed the butter and the singer having sung this pallavi!)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Jul 2018, 17:58

Butter is KaNNan's sustenance, his trademark. There is no way he would give it up.
As for S GopAlan, he is an authority--can't win over him! So, let it be, I would say...
After all ,a pallavi line is only a pallavi line...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jul 2018, 18:59

சரி, இது fusion நிரவல்ன்னு நினைச்சுப்போம். (OK, we will take this as fusion niraval).

balakk · Post by **balakk** » 20 Jul 2018, 12:11

Abhishek's full concert - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPHbenx36bQ

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 20 Jul 2018, 13:51

kvchellappa wrote: ↑12 Jul 2018, 16:02 பாவம் பாடகர் ! பாவம் கண்ணன் ! எப்படி உருட்டி புரட்டி எடுக்கிறோம்? வெண்ணை தின்னாமல் இருந்திருக்கலாம் என்று கண்ணனும் இதைப் பாடாமல் இருந்திருக்கலாமே என்று பாடகரும் நினைக்கலாம்!
(Poor singer! Poor Kannan! How we haul them over coal? Kannan may regret having pinched and swallowed the butter and the singer having sung this pallavi!)

I did not say in the forum that the construct is right or wrong - only questioned if its correct? But did not get the answer I needed

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 20 Jul 2018, 16:02

The line as it stands is correct - I said it and Ponbhairavi also confirmed it. My remark in lighter vein is about the whole thing incl. my own comments.