Yes. That was what I was curious about.
Now I note that the viruttam is addressed to Ardhanariswara for the song on Allah. The only link I find is in the language - both are in Tamil.
I was expecting something like “Allah hu samad Lam yalid … …”
Yes. That was what I was curious about.
Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 10:31 It was a little difficult for me to catch all the words of the Vrittam that began in Lathangi, but there is another version of it in different ragas at https://soundcloud.com/rajesh-garga/mud ... n-virutham .
Mudiatha tuyaril Naan moozhgikkidakkindren
Moorkam soozhnthida marugith Thavikkindren
Vidiyatha irul pothil vegu dooram kadanthu virainthu vanthu vanthu
ILamai valuvodu padiyeri padiyeri padam thoynthavan
Padum Paadu paarka Parvai thiruppu nee
Madiyeru mugameru malarpola vaadidum manamerumarul Neekku
Maathorubaagane.
He later announced that the Vrittam was a composition of PerumaaL Murugan.
Thank you, Bilahari..bilahari wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 18:29 Thank you for that heartfelt narration of the concert, Ranganayaki. While I do not care for TMK's rather unfocused political writing, and decreasingly care for his unstructured and often uneven brand of music, I agree very much that art is transcendental, and admire any authentic effort to make it so.
Hope you read my post in full and also Sri Soundara Rajan's comment that I was referring to.Pratyaksham Bala wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 19:06
Yes. That was what I was curious about.
Now I note that the viruttam is addressed to Ardhanariswara for the song on Allah. The only link I find is in the language - both are in Tamil.
I was expecting something like “Allah hu samad Lam yalid … …”
Yes, that’s what I thought too. Anyway Pratyaksham Bala has clarified too and I am glad subtlety wasn’t lost on me .
My posts have always been contentious and intentionally so. I do not switch off my brain nor do I shrink away from expressing an opinion different from The Hindu which is what is being regurgitated ad nauseam here by people who cannot think for themselves.vijay.siddharth wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 19:01 ...not only have the content of your posts become contentious, but the quality of your writing has deteriorated! You forgot the inverted comma between Yesu and s in the phrase 'yesu's dad'!
Thank you, you are welcome. Any ready links to that interview with PerumaaL Murugan?sureshvv wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 19:31
Thank you for the link and the lyrics of the viruttam.
To hear Carnatic Music rendered for the words of a contemporary poet with a socially relevant message is truly awe inspiring.
Kudos to TMK.
Perumal Murugan was interviewed at The Hindu Lit Fest 2017 at Chennai. His story is heart wrenching. This particular passage conveys his agony and despair very well.
Absolute ignorance of history. But that is par for the course.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:49Yes, that’s what I thought too. Anyway Pratyaksham Bala has clarified too and I am glad subtlety wasn’t lost on me .
Like Sundara Rajan, I too don’t understand the problem with “Allah.” It’s just a word, and we are so comfortable with “God!” While we are so comfortable saying things like our god and their god, we wouldn’t dream of saying our allah and their allah . May be the Muslim conquerors should have made us all speak Arabic the way all educated people speak English. Then we would be able to say Allah while continuing to speak Vedanta. Then what would Hindu-Muslim relations have looked like?
I've thought a lot about TMK's music as it has transformed dramatically over the past half-decade.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:38 To be frank, his new avatar pleases me much more, he has changed so much, putting music above himself when he sings. I hadn’t seen him sing before 2011 in New Jersey, but his older videos seem to be all about him. In those, which somehow everyone prefers, he seems to be shouting to me, “Look, see what all I can do!” There wasn’t much music in that, it was boring to me. That is totally absent now, and it is no longer about the “viddai” he can demonstrate. Now he is not extending his prowess, but searching for the beauty - that is my view of what he seems to be doing. That’s why I am able to enjoy a single song continuously for a week.
So I’m unable to know what you mean when you say, “uneven brand of music.” Would you care to say what makes it uneven for you?
A very short one.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:56
Thank you, you are welcome. Any ready links to that interview with PerumaaL Murugan?
Oh my God!sureshvv wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 19:31Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 10:31 It was a little difficult for me to catch all the words of the Vrittam that began in Lathangi, but there is another version of it in different ragas at https://soundcloud.com/rajesh-garga/mud ... n-virutham .
Mudiatha tuyaril Naan moozhgikkidakkindren
Moorkam soozhnthida marugith Thavikkindren
Vidiyatha irul pothil vegu dooram kadanthu virainthu vanthu vanthu
ILamai valuvodu padiyeri padiyeri padam thoynthavan
Padum Paadu paarka Parvai thiruppu nee
Madiyeru mugameru malarpola vaadidum manamerumarul Neekku
Maathorubaagane.
He later announced that the Vrittam was a composition of PerumaaL Murugan.
Thank you for the link and the lyrics of the viruttam.
To hear Carnatic Music rendered for the words of a contemporary poet with a socially relevant message is truly awe inspiring.
Kudos to TMK.
Perumal Murugan was interviewed at The Hindu Lit Fest 2017 at Chennai. His story is heart wrenching. This particular passage conveys his agony and despair very well.
Well, it was not his composition.. so it’s not that he forgot. I happened to message TMK on his fb Page ( hadn’t ever done that before this concert was announced) to ask about a phrase in this Viruttam and TMK responded, adding that it was part of a collection of songs that Mahatma Gandhi had put together for the Sabarmati Ashrams. He added that even the Sai Baba Ashrams sing it.harimau wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 18:57Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 10:31
"Om Tatsat. Shri Narayana Tu. Purushottama Guru Tu. Siddha Buddhi Tu. Skanda -Vinayaka Savitaapaavaka Tu. Bramha Mazda Tu. ...-Shakti Tu. Eeshu Tu. Eeshupita Tu. Ramakrishna Tu. Raheem-TaoTu. Rudra-Vishnu Tu. Vishnu Purana Krishna Tu. ... Akaala Nirbhaya Aatma Linga Tu.. Om Tatsat!! "
He forgot the Holy Ghost! Only Yesu and Yesu's Dad. (Not Joseph, but the Big Guy Up There).
That was the big turn off for me as well. But when he sings Porambokku or Perumal Murugan's songs, I find no trace of egotism or self-absorption.bilahari wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:05
You are right that his music then was about demonstrating to us his talent and potential, and sizable they are. However, I don't know that that egotism isn't central to his music even now, and I think a lot of what I find difficult in his music now is rooted in doubts of authenticity.
Yes, right, I forgot. Substitute “Persian” for “Arabic” in my post, and my point remains the same. After all it’s about one word in those languages, and being as comfortable in the use of the conqueror’s language, as we are with English.harimau wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:05Absolute ignorance of history. But that is par for the course.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:49 [
May be the Muslim conquerors should have made us all speak Arabic the way all educated people speak English. Then we would be able to say Allah while continuing to speak Vedanta. Then what would Hindu-Muslim relations have looked like?
The Moghul sultans who ruled India were Turkic (read carefully: not Turkish) in origin. They used Persian (Farsi) as their language. When the British took over India in 1757, they continued to use Persian. The college where Englishmen were trained before they were sent to rule India taught them Persian. Only in 1858 was the language of administration changed to English.
If the sultans had continued ruling India, you would all be Ben Dovers.
I wouldn’t let my mind be clouded by doubts. Becaouse they are in our minds and not his. When you have certitude about his inauthenticity, it would be fair to turn away from him. In writing that he has turned away from the old attitude and does not seem to put himself above the music, I am not naive enough to think that he has totally conquered his ego. There must be some, but it does not come through in the sound that he produces. Of course he will get an ego thrill when he sings and produces beauty, but the point is to bring out the beauty that exists for him to showcase. It’s a finer thing.
Actually they did. How do you think Urdu was born? If you see the Bollywood movies of the 40s and 50s, it was all largely Urdu. The harimeows have done their best to wipe out history in this and many such matters.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:49
May be the Muslim conquerors should have made us all speak Arabic the way all educated people speak English. Then we would be able to say Allah while continuing to speak Vedanta. Then what would Hindu-Muslim relations have looked like?
I sense that one form of trying to achieve 'oneness' is the explosive approach - conquer and destroy anything different from one's own. Then there is another form, the implosion approach, where we'd like to give up our existence and get taken over by what we consider as a superior form to ours.sureshvv wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 22:21Actually they did. How do you think Urdu was born? If you see the Bollywood movies of the 40s and 50s, it was all largely Urdu. The harimeows have done their best to wipe out history in this and many such matters.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:49
May be the Muslim conquerors should have made us all speak Arabic the way all educated people speak English. Then we would be able to say Allah while continuing to speak Vedanta. Then what would Hindu-Muslim relations have looked like?
Yes. I thought of Urdu while I wrote..sureshvv wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 22:21Actually they did. How do you think Urdu was born? If you see the Bollywood movies of the 40s and 50s, it was all largely Urdu.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 20:49
May be the Muslim conquerors should have made us all speak Arabic the way all educated people speak English. Then we would be able to say Allah while continuing to speak Vedanta. Then what would Hindu-Muslim relations have looked like?
Rajesh, has anyone here ever questioned your views of Sri Suryaprakash's concerts/music? What makes you think it's ok to question my reasons for liking a concert?rajeshnat wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 23:25 ranganayaki
You are in general sold on TMK's views and his statements in general . With that mindset you are perhaps liking bit more the music than actually considering what the musical concert was . (...) In short there is a global LIKE switch that was already ON before the start of the concert.
I noticed that you are very strong in your disapproval of Shankarank, but not at all of Harimau. Do you have an open mind? Do you base your opinion (on who should be censored here) upon the issue of what is acceptable in this forum or upon your personal friendship with Harimau? My guess is that you don't have an on-going friendship with Shankarank.For supposition sake say Harimau has sung this whole concert you may still like the music just here and there and you would have noticed more holes which you did not mention here as it just escaped you .
I don't follow your comment. What does "for a change no shuffle of words" mean? To me it sounds like the exact opposite of "As usual it was crystal clear."Thank you for your review. As usual it was very crystal clear and for a change no shuffle of words.
I think it is a perfectly valid point that the doubts are in our minds, and that they are doubts. I listened to the viruttam you posted as well as the porambOku song on YouTube, and I did enjoy both pieces. I do not understand Telugu and I am not religious (to put it mildly), so I find it difficult to appreciate the content of a lot of CM compositions. I did not have that problem at all with these pieces, which made them all the more enjoyable. It is a feeling of greater involvement with the art I rarely feel, and felt first listening to ohO kAlamE.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 I wouldn’t let my mind be clouded by doubts. Becaouse they are in our minds and not his. When you have certitude about his inauthenticity, it would be fair to turn away from him. In writing that he has turned away from the old attitude and does not seem to put himself above the music, I am not naive enough to think that he has totally conquered his ego. There must be some, but it does not come through in the sound that he produces. Of course he will get an ego thrill when he sings and produces beauty, but the point is to bring out the beauty that exists for him to showcase. It’s a finer thing.
That said he does have an outlet for his ego, but it does not involve bending and shaping the music. It is his individuality that comes through when he discards the traditional paddhati. But that is a recent construct and is not inherent to the music, and in my view it is not sacrilegious to do so, and frankly it’s just what I wanted. The predictability was getting a bit boring to me.
May be you could set aside your doubts and give it a try for the music? After all, he is not less human than us, perfectly capable of failings. Why can’t we be generous and let him have his private failings?
Wow! What an amazing post! How lovely! I don’t need that warning, it’s not about me or anyone keeping tabs , you know that. I just wish you joy in the journey. I just want to add that I’m not hoping that you will end up liking TMK’s music specifically. Nor is it towards him that I want to “convert” you. I don’t do that, and I don’t have an agenda. If you really don’t like his music, it would be fair that as a CM Rasika, it should be because something about the music doesn’t appeal to you, and not his personality, appearance, attire, views, or anything extraneous. I feel compelled to add this because of the weird reaction I just received and I’m writing here for anyone to read.Bilahari wrote:
I think it is a perfectly valid point that the doubts are in our minds, and that they are doubts. I listened to the viruttam you posted as well as the porambOku song on YouTube, and I did enjoy both pieces. I do not understand Telugu and I am not religious (to put it mildly), so I find it difficult to appreciate the content of a lot of CM compositions. I did not have that problem at all with these pieces, which made them all the more enjoyable. It is a feeling of greater involvement with the art I rarely feel, and felt first listening to ohO kAlamE.
I also think that regardless of motivations we are responsible to musicians who are trying to make our art more inclusive and more expansive, and that alone merits support.
I will try to keep an open mind and listen to TMK, but I warn you that I am as human and flawed as he is, so my reaction may still remain coloured by my biases.
That is certainly the lesson I learnt in my very short stint as a concert sponsor.
rajesh wrote first wrote: Thank you for your review. As usual it was very crystal clear and for a change no shuffle of words.
Ranganayaki,ranganayaki wrote second wrote: I don't follow your comment. What does "for a change no shuffle of words" mean? To me it sounds like the exact opposite of "As usual it was crystal clear."
I suppose you don't know this, but I am trained to dissociate artistic production from the artist. It is easy for me. It's actually hArder to accept that others can't do it and are quite unaware of this. That's why I appreciate Bilahari's straightforwardness (and self-awareness) in admitting to his inability to dissociate the two, and that's why I felt he MAY be able to give it a try. And that's also why I would never tell Harimau (or you) to open your eyes to the universality of all religions.
I refrain from making personal comments about your musical likes and dislikes, everybody on this forum does so. Kindly return the courtesy to others and don't get personal.
srinathk wrote: Song list notwithstanding, how was the actual concert?
RanganayakiRanganayaki in post #12 wrote: It was a good concert, the experience was excellent, the music shone through, without too much of the usual acrobatics, and I didn't miss it.
Bilahari,
If you liked TMK's music, I have no problems. If they want to slow down and explore rAgA in sAhitya, that is fine. But that appreciation need not have to be reinforced by negative comments on other aspects, to give the impression that those things are regressive and whatever is being tried is new and progressive!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 11:33What's your point?shankarank wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 09:36...Ranganayaki wrote: ↑11 Sep 2018, 10:42 Not heavy on neraval, korvais, kanakku, with the focus on ragas and songs and mood and emotion. Different from the showmanship we expect from everyone, but the music wasn't missing.
Coming back on track @Ranganayaki, this was an excellent review btw. Musically, T M Krishna offers an intense experience. Spend 3 hours in a concert of his, and you are overwhelmed by it. He has brought a certain intensity into his slow speed singing as well as a more 'free bird' approach to neraval - a fantastic imagination. Also he is an excellent collaborator with his team of artistes. From the racy days of overwhelming rounds of brighas, neravals and swaras, he has changed a lot in his manner of presentation, his concerts have become significantly more moving, but the intensity is still there, and how.Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 10:31 TMK opened with a beautiful Vrittam on the Supreme One:
"Om Tatsat. Shri Narayana Tu. Purushottama Guru Tu. Siddha Buddhi Tu. Skanda -Vinayaka Savitaapaavaka Tu. Bramha Mazda Tu. ...-Shakti Tu. Eeshu Tu. Eeshupita Tu. Ramakrishna Tu. Raheem-TaoTu. Rudra-Vishnu Tu. Vishnu Purana Krishna Tu. ... Akaala Nirbhaya Aatma Linga Tu.. Om Tatsat!! "
He segued into the kriti with a few "baaro" added at the end of the Vrittam.. Rk Shriramkumar and Arun Prakash were delightful musical extensions of TMK's sensitive voice, also in the slow kalpanaswarams which I almost didn't notice for what they were, it was just music .
This was simple and fundamental truth (with a capital T) just simplicity and beauty... Primed by the message of Oneness with all the various words for the Absolute, I had an instantly spiritual response with the mention of Ramakrishna, almost as though I was in deep meditation myself, it had never happened before! I don't have words for it, "transported" is not quite it. I was very much present, but enveloped by the music, my mind was - secluded!! Then the song ended, and the doors opened with a bang it seemed, and all the late-comers who could not enter during the first piece charged in like rhinos to my mind, and my mood was destroyed.
The Kharaharapriya was very nice, not much to say about it, except that I couldn't help thinking what a great team they were. There were moments of silence, the kind TMK seems to quietly enjoy in the middle of his music and his team know just what to do.. Just play a note, or be quiet, and play nothing... KAP plays a soft basic beat and knows the value and power of mridangam silence in a concert, such a relief after years of mostly continuously noisy mridangists! Neraval at " Sakala Mahitendra Neelamani Nibha Shareera Paahi Saketa Naayaka." The neraval segued into swaras, elaborating around the upper rishabha, with a very quick koraippu and the violinist taking the lead for sarvalaghus, seamlessly followed by TMK's with the mridangam alternating between fine and strong sound. The piece ended with a short solo by the mridangist with a simple korvai ending without too much fanfare.
Shankarabharanam Taanam.. I was aware this time not to be surprised by the absence of an alapana and not to expect a Pallavi or anything in Shankarabharanam following it. And when you don't have those expectations, it is very easy to adjust when the kutcheri does not follow the usual predictable lines, but presents so much other beauty to experience.
The Taanam came to a rather simple end and I was reminded of some other inspired Taanam endings, which this one didn't have, but it was all right. He asked the audience to show how many of us knew Malayalam, and some people raised hands, and he says to laughter,"Ok, first thing you do is to excuse my Malayalam, and secondly you can tell your neighbor what the next song is about.." The beautiful song Kanivolum Kamaneeya Hridayam followed (in Shankarabharanam), and I had to google it to know the exact pallavi line. But it was clear that it was a song on Sri Jesus Christ. To be frank, the change was welcome, and jarred nobody's ears in the audience. He mentioned its credits as a film song.
I switched off for a moment feeling a little bored by the choice of "Vinatasuta Vahana," and didn't bother to follow the lyrics and meanings on an app as I usually do.. It turned out to be a mistake, as I found out later, talking to our friend Musikapriya after the concert. He explained how Thyagaraja himself asks if there can be sukha in pleasant words (sammata vaakkulu) without the flame of differences in "modes of worship"/opinion being extinguished. I realized that it was not a random filler but a well-chosen song to assuage the hurt we all felt by the negative circumstances surrounding the concert, and to question the hatred brought on by differences. Thyagaraja recommends the company of the pure-hearted (sat-sangati) who make no matter of any difference and who instead offer the comfort (saukhyamu) of Oneness, rather than the flames of difference (meaning here adapted from Sri VGV's work). I missed that moment in the concert, and a mind more open would have helped me enjoy it more. I'm glad he chose to sing it.
The ragamalika alapana was fantastic, with the alternate segueing from raga back to raga getting progressively shorter and more seamless. A true joy, without the intellect seeming to intervene in a moment of musical meditation. The meditative mood was set with the Varali seeming to come from the depth of his heart. He remained in the lower reaches of the primary octave, without exploring the uttarangam , but the exploration took him lower into the mandara sthayee, to the lower P, then lower around the M, back up to the P, all very normal, but then he went lower and lower exploring each swara, all the way to the S and the atimandara N, staying there for a moment before gently returning up the lower octave to finish and hand it to RKSK who continued the meditation, also remaining in the lower octave. It was not just the audience who was touched, but Sri KAP and RKSK also appeared to be very moved. My heart filled up and I can only count on you all knowing the feeling that is not something to describe.
There was a ten-second hint of Brindavana Saranga before "Soundararajam Ashraye," beautifully done. This was followed by a short Tani. There were moments of laughter and appreciation during this, but the reason escaped me.
It was a little difficult for me to catch all the words of the Vrittam that began in Lathangi, but there is another version of it in different ragas at https://soundcloud.com/rajesh-garga/mud ... n-virutham .
Mudiatha tuyaril Naan moozhgikkidakkindren
Moorkam soozhnthida marugith Thavikkindren
Vidiyatha irul pothil vegu dooram kadanthu virainthu vanthu vanthu
ILamai valuvodu padiyeri padiyeri padam thoynthavan
Padum Paadu paarka Parvai thiruppu nee
Madiyeru mugameru malarpola vaadidum manamerumarul Neekku
Maathorubaagane.
He later announced that the Vrittam was a composition of PerumaaL Murugan.
The heartbreaking Porambokku Paadal was sung at someone's request.
It was a wonderful concert, truly a concerted effort of like-minded individuals there, from the family who took the initiative to organize it, to the artists, to the audience who supported it by showing up, each and every member..
Clearly, TMK who spoke to give thanks was touched, and he acknowledged the sudden change in significance that the concert took and said that it was not so much that it was a TMK concert that it needed to happen, but because a democracy is the only humanly made structure gives us the ability to share empathy and transcend differences. He said that as a democratic idea, this concert was extremely important.
About art, he made the point that we say that art transcends, going beyond religion, gender, but in fact art doesn't really "go" anywhere of its own accord. So if art really should create dialog and open or cross boundaries then human beings need to make the effort to make it happen. Artists and all who share art have to make the effort to make the conversation possible, regardless of the boundaries of religion, or gender.
The wonderful thing that came out of all the noise, he said, was that we all came together to do something. As you know, I agree heartily. He concluded, after thanking the people crucial to his tour, by saying, "Thank you very much, DC, you made it very special." It really was moving.
Thanks for trying to explain and clarify. The first paragraph above made that part clearer, but the rest is still not clear to me.shankarank wrote: ↑13 Sep 2018, 09:06
If you liked TMK's music, I have no problems. If they want to slow down and explore rAgA in sAhitya, that is fine. But that appreciation need not have to be reinforced by negative comments on other aspects, to give the impression that those things are regressive and whatever is being tried is new and progressive!
Mixing up forms and bringing Alapana style into a well made kriti ( sanskriti) , is doing disservice to that form.
Yeah!! You put words to it for me! It is truly intense as you say, he brings out emotion, he shows extreme sensitivity, he modulates - alternates power with finesse, adds moments of rest and silence.. it’s powerful! Did I say that I’ve only attended three concerts of his? All unforgettable. That’s what you hope to experience.SrinathK wrote: ↑13 Sep 2018, 09:23
Coming back on track @Ranganayaki, this was an excellent review btw. Musically, T M Krishna offers an intense experience. Spend 3 hours in a concert of his, and you are overwhelmed by it. He has brought a certain intensity into his slow speed singing as well as a more 'free bird' approach to neraval - a fantastic imagination. Also he is an excellent collaborator with his team of artistes. From the racy days of overwhelming rounds of brighas, neravals and swaras, he has changed a lot in his manner of presentation, his concerts have become significantly more moving, but the intensity is still there, and how.
He forgot the Holy Ghost! Only Yesu and Yesu's Dad. (Not Joseph, but the Big Guy Up There). This is what happens when one goes to The School of J Krishnamurthy and Vivekananda College as opposed to a good Jesuit college like Loyola.
No.
Hey it is T.M.Krishna in the first place ( have you read? (read listened?)) who wants to dispel this fanciful notion that our music is some great ancient one!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 That said he does have an outlet for his ego, but it does not involve bending and shaping the music. It is his individuality that comes through when he discards the traditional paddhati. But that is a recent construct and is not inherent to the music., and in my view it is not sacrilegious to do so, and frankly it’s just what I wanted. The predictability was getting a bit boring to me.
What private feeling?? He is all over the naxal media writing columns? You cannot have the cake and eat it as well!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 May be you could set aside your doubts and give it a try for the music? After all, he is not less human than us, perfectly capable of failings. Why can’t we be generous and let him have his private failings?
I don’t know what this has to do with anything I wrote. Further, I did say I don’t follow all of TMK’s writing. Now if YOU say something about his thoughts, you should substantiate it with a quote from him. Otherwise i am not going to bother to discuss it.shankarank wrote: ↑15 Sep 2018, 22:22
Hey it is T.M.Krishna in the first place ( have you read? (read listened?)) who wants to dispel this fanciful notion that our music is some great ancient one!
I understood just your first three words there. You have misread me, take another look. I said “private failings.” Anyway that was specifically addressed to Bilahari, so don’t worry about it if you don’t enjoy reading to understand.What private feeling?? He is all over the naxal media writing columns? You cannot have the cake and eat it as well!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 May be you could set aside your doubts and give it a try for the music? After all, he is not less human than us, perfectly capable of failings. Why can’t we be generous and let him have his private failings?
I can clarify this quickly. Whoever is discovering Carnatic music today because of the splashing TMK, why did they ignore it before? Isn't it implied by his statements that it is only 400 years old ( said in a mocking retort to those who claim ancient origin), fact that younger generation were prepared by education system to hate the old , and anything old-fashioned is to be shun!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑16 Sep 2018, 09:56 Regarding the next part of your post, which precedes the part where you quote me again (shown below), you’ve probably guessed that I won’t understand it.
And this is a clarification!!? Yengeyavathu poi muttikkanum!!shankarank wrote: ↑16 Sep 2018, 10:39I can clarify this quickly. Whoever is discovering Carnatic music today because of the splashing TMK, why did they ignore it before? Isn't it implied by his statements that it is only 400 years old ( said in a mocking retort to those who claim ancient origin), fact that younger generation were prepared by education system to hate the old , and anything old-fashioned is to be shun!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑16 Sep 2018, 09:56 Regarding the next part of your post, which precedes the part where you quote me again (shown below), you’ve probably guessed that I won’t understand it.
To be able to answer you, i must know what “this” refers to. And which campus do you mean? The one I grew up on? In your mind, if campus life had exposed me to the world, what would I have known? I’m quite curious to know what you are referring to.Haven't you heard this? May be the campus comfort did not expose you to outer world?
Ok, you're crossing a line now. Discussions and disagreements happen, but if you get more acerbic than this, we're going to have to give you an official warning. Your infinite grievances over a wide range of things notwithstanding, please control your anger and ranting.shankarank wrote: ↑15 Sep 2018, 22:22Hey it is T.M.Krishna in the first place ( have you read? (read listened?)) who wants to dispel this fanciful notion that our music is some great ancient one!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 That said he does have an outlet for his ego, but it does not involve bending and shaping the music. It is his individuality that comes through when he discards the traditional paddhati. But that is a recent construct and is not inherent to the music., and in my view it is not sacrilegious to do so, and frankly it’s just what I wanted. The predictability was getting a bit boring to me.
It is a gross misunderstanding and a lack of appreciation of the inner spirit of that claim, that makes him make such diatribes. As though claiming that it is ancient is what that makes the nitwits and charlatans that form the literate population in India today as not "included" - i.e. the music is not inclusive. It promotes a disdain for the heritage , whether ancient or medieval or even prior generation (நீ உங்கப்பன் ஆத்தாளையே மதிக்கலேன்னா உனக்கு சங்கீதம் என்ன தேவை? கேடு??). Or at a minimum it wants to exploit the disdain for heritage to promote and market the music and earn that extra buck - all in the name of propagating the music, putting everybody who toiled under the bus!
Now you want to discover something inherent to music - that was "originally" there !! Where was it?? What a load of crock??
இத மாதிரி எத்தன பேருடா கிளம்பியிருக்கேங்க ?? உங்கள மாதிரி எத்தன பேர பாத்திருப்போம் ??
What private feeling?? He is all over the naxal media writing columns? You cannot have the cake and eat it as well!Ranganayaki wrote: ↑12 Sep 2018, 21:49 May be you could set aside your doubts and give it a try for the music? After all, he is not less human than us, perfectly capable of failings. Why can’t we be generous and let him have his private failings?
I thought about your question and comments, considered whether there was an inconsistency. I must say that I am totally comfortable with what I wrote. First of all, it is a matter of opinion that I have to use words of the same degree.rajeshnat wrote: ↑13 Sep 2018, 06:55srinathk wrote: Song list notwithstanding, how was the actual concert?RanganayakiRanganayaki in post #12 wrote: It was a good concert, the experience was excellent, the music shone through, without too much of the usual acrobatics, and I didn't miss it.
You wrote the concert was good and the experience was excellent . For this reason only I have started writing every review and end with overall how it was (below mediocre, mediocre,good,very good,excellent,outstanding or anything in between like good to very good , ). Can you tell over all how the concert was ?? Here I feel there was wide shuffle of words , if the concert was good how can the experience be excellent ?. Please tell overall how it was??