Brinda M n Vidya K, Arkay, 2/Oct/2018

[sankark]

with R Rahul, Vijay & Sai Subramanian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys1uMQdeHYk

kannada varNam, nAda tanumanisham (jankAradhwani janyam) so far. Expect this to go great n grand further

[sankark]

s'madhyamam nIkenduku dayarAdu ns@dhIrAgraganyA dharanijA ramaNa

http://www.medieval.org/music/world/car ... aradu.html

The entire song & KS were at a slightly higher kAlapramaNam then usual and good. Pep injected to the proceedings.

nAdAdina mAta
like they realized hey, we put in too much pep; lets take that couple of notches down.

sAvEri Ah

[sankark]

AnjanEya raghurAma. I was thinking one could get to hear etu nammina O manasA, one of musiri school staples

[sankark]

ns@janakasuthAdi vimOcana lOla... is that reference to the mAruti's meet with sItai in ashOka vanam, chULAmani padalam of kamban? tani.

[sankark]

gAndhi mahAn piRandhAr AbhEri?

nAttaikkurinji RTP m triputai, t nadai, sundu viral eduppu; NinaippOm maNimozhi vazhi nadappOm mahAtmA gAndhiyai (Lets think of Mahatma Gandhi and follow his golden words) vasantA, hindOLam

shAnthi nilava vEndum
hari tum harO
mangaLam

[rajeshnat]

nAttaikkurinji RTP m triputai, t nadai, sundu viral eduppu; NinaippOm maNimozhi vazhi nadappOm mahAtmA gAndhiyai (Lets think of Mahatma Gandhi and follow his golden words) vasantA, hindOLam

shAnthi nilava vEndum
hari tum harO
mangaLam

This pallavi is a TRS mama creation. Incidentally if my conjecture is right the last concert that TRS mama attended on Oct 03rd,2013 was of Brinda manickavasagan.

Also a rare occurence which is likely noticed only by me . The same day the last two numbers that Amritha Murali sang in another sabha is the same santhi nilava vEndum (thilang)and Hari tum HarO(darbAri) with the likely mangalam in this case also being pavamana mylapore had two concerts on Oct 02,2018 . Both halls in two sides of mylapore (Arkay and Ragasudha)resonated with the same thukkadas thilang-darbari-sowrashtram closure.

[CRama]

Rajesh, This pallavi has been sung by Madurai Mani Iyer. Are you sure it is a TRS creation.

[kvchellappa]

"When the Ragam-Tanam-Pallavi segment in Shanmugapriya arrived, Venugopal said that the pallavi ‘Gandhi Mozhi Vazhi Nadappom’ was written by Chitti and given to MMI when he came to sing for Tiruchi AIR and he instantly used it in the concert."
They seem to be two different pallavis.

[rajeshnat]

Rajesh, This pallavi has been sung by Madurai Mani Iyer. Are you sure it is a TRS creation.

mahAtmA mani mozhi vazhi nadappOm mAperum thalaivan gAndhi is the pallavi line in Shanmughapriya , that was created by chitti sundararajan and came into the concert thru the God of CM - Madurai Mani Iyer

ninaippOm maNimozhivazhi naDappOm, mahAtmA gAndhiyai is the pallavi line in nattaikurinji , that was created by TRS and came into the concert thru the near God of CM - Thiruvidaimarudhur Rajagopalan Subramaniam

[Sivaramakrishnan]

......., nAda tanumanisham (jankAradhwani janyam).....

This version of Nadatanum with suddhadhaivatam surprised me. I was hearing it for the first time. I had not come across any vidwan indicating this variant. Needless to say the kharaharapriya janyam version is time tested, popular and imprinted in rasikas' minds.

At the best one may announce in concerts about existence of such unheard version but not attempt to render. May suit lecdems.

A case of 'unheard melodies are not sweeter'?

[arunsri]

......., nAda tanumanisham (jankAradhwani janyam).....

This version of Nadatanum with suddhadhaivatam surprised me. I was hearing it for the first time. I had not come across any vidwan indicating this variant. Needless to say the kharaharapriya janyam version is time tested, popular and imprinted in rasikas' minds.

At the best one may announce in concerts about existence of such unheard version but not attempt to render. May suit lecdems.

A case of 'unheard melodies are not sweeter'?

......., nAda tanumanisham (jankAradhwani janyam).....

This version of Nadatanum with suddhadhaivatam surprised me. I was hearing it for the first time. I had not come across any vidwan indicating this variant. Needless to say the kharaharapriya janyam version is time tested, popular and imprinted in rasikas' minds.

At the best one may announce in concerts about existence of such unheard version but not attempt to render. May suit lecdems.

A case of 'unheard melodies are not sweeter'?

Beg to disagree here, just because the original one is less popular than the one in circulation now, one should not say 'one should not attempt to render etc.' While we are no one to comment on why it changed, when it changed or who changed it....we definitely have the right to know both the versions. For records, Smt. Vedavalli has said that the jhankAradhwani version used to be the prayer at the Music Academy before start of proceedings each year until early to mid 60s. She and KVN would render the same... when the wise minds there decided to go in for the in vogue kharahrapriya version, Vedavalli was replaced by someone who agreed to sing that version.

The point being, just because we have not heard it, or the new one sounds better cannot be good reasons for relegating the original tunes to lec-dem alone.

Some other changed versions (sung by Mudicondan - Vedavalli - her sishyas). Kriti -new raga (Old raga)

1. sItamma - vasanta (lalithA)
2. gnyAnamOsagarAda - pUrvikalyANi (shaDvidhamArgiNI)
3. mOrabETTitE - tODi (rUpavati)
4. rAmA nI yEDa - kharaharapriyA (dilIpakam)

5. ninuvinA marigaladA - rItigauLa - shyAma sAstry (AbhEri with suddha dhaivatam --mELa 20)
6. nagumOmu ganalEni - karnATaka dEvagAndhAri (AbhEri with suddha dhaivatam - mELa 20)

7. banTuriti koluviyavayya - hamsanAdam (shaTshruti dhaivatam of nItimati mELa dropped completely)

8. mAyE twam yAhi - tarangINi - (equivalent to chArukEshi of the vEnkaTamakhi scheme), now sung as tarangini (with suddha dhaivatam replaced by chatushruti dhaivatam --making it a janya of harikAmbhOji)

There are several others (esp thyAgarAja kritis) which have undergone raga change, or raga lakshanas have been changed. There are lecdems and even a cassette/CD by name PRAMANAM by Smt. Vedavalli where these are sung.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Thanks arunsri, for the fund of information.
Not that I am unaware of the significance of the old/original versions of kritis and the need to preserve them. Perhaps I may be fiercer in advocating retention of traditional values in classical arts but at some point of time had to accept need for 'permissible compromises' wherein the majority rasikas would listen to music with pleasure. I have come across young non-professionals hesitating to attend concerts just for the reason that listening pleasure is often marred by theory. I remember one of my young friends who keeps asking me whether any decision has been taken by Vidwans as to which Madhyamam (periya Ma or chinna Ma) is to be used in Goulipantu! I don't have a clear answer yet! And why the need of a streak of pratimadhyamam in the Anupallavi and Charana of the paras Javali- Smarasundaranguni?

Chetulara is sung/played in Bhairavi (instead of the documented Natabhairavi) even at Tyagaraja Aradhana, Tiruvaiyaru. Could you restore the tradition? (Right now when I am penning this, young Nagaswara Vidwan Chinnamanur Karthikeyan is playing an elaborate Bhairavi for Chetulara in the Saturday National Programme of AIR!!)

We have to retain Carnatic music which is fighting a stiff competition from the other genres. The grim fact is that the young who are seen in the arena are mostly professionals or upcoming artists or students. We have only a limited audience of young rasikas who are exposed to the newer versions of kritis. As such Nagumo with suddha dhaivatam may not appeal to them who are used to the popular version. And only the seasoned among senior rasikas would be able to appreciate the old version but welcome the current versions with open hands.

In order to develop a band of young rasikas and encourage their listening pleasure, we may have to accept and recognise the present popular versions of kritis and of course prevent any further dilution. This must be quite possible. The present brigade of young artists could ensure this.

I was the one to encourage an upcoming young musicologist recently to present a lecdem on the changes over the years that have crept in kritis, prayogas in ragas etc.

This is exactly the spirit of my observations and suggestion.

[Sachi_R]

I read this thread now while listening to the Bhairavi on nagaswaram that SRK mentioned. I switched to this Youtube track and heard the Nadatanumanisham in Jhankaradhwani janya with the different Ni from what we have been hearing.

Whereas it seems to be backed by textual tradition and pathantaram, I tend to agree with SRK that the more popular version is justifiably more appealing. My own reading is that the different Ni sounds melancholic and doesn't fit the bhava of the words where that Ni is touched.
Curious what caused the Bard to use that Ni in the original and who decided to make the change for the better.

I must thank the Vudushis for educating us on this!


BTW Vijay Natesan plays extremely well and has a great instinct for accompaniment.

[arunsri]

Thank you Sivaramakrishnan Sir for the detailed writeup

Chetulara, i believe was in kharaharapriya and not bhairavi or naTabhiravi.

The point being, most of us are 'conditioned' to hearing a version and therefore even liking it 'stockholm syndrome'. That does not mean the older version, even though less appealing is not to be treasured and propagated. Shall we call it the case of ''a lie uttered 100 times becomes the truth". Agree with you, further dilution is not recommended and should not be allowed.

Also, a Vedavalli mami says--who gave us the right to change something that was composed by someone else, just because we felt that the version is 'less appealing' or 'more difficult' than the newer ones? I completely agree with her, and of course, we may not get back to the old one-atleast stop further decay.

[narayan]

Totally with arunsri on this! If there is evidence that some song was composed in a particular manner (e.g. some ragam), there is merit in presenting it as best as we can in that way. We may still like another version, but to say that the original version should preferably be avoided, is certainly going too far!

Young rasikas will neither be attracted nor repelled by some prati madhyamam in some song - or hearing multiple versions. If any young Rasika is interested in such intricacies (if at all), then it is all taken as part of a living art form, that is all.

Take the Maye versions. The only versions I have heard are Madurai Mani Iyer's version with the higher dhaivatam and VVS's rendering with the suddha dhaivatam. While both are appealing, I am certainly happy that someone is still rendering the original idea of the composer.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Still we have another group of kritis where the tunes to the existing sahitya are set by later vidwan/s. Ashtapadi, sadasivabrahmendra kritis, some Tarangams of Narayanatheertha etc have heavily born the brunt of this rather free for all exercise.

Even in this case, stalwarts like Semmangudi held that the person tuning them first shall be recognized by retaining his varnamettu. He had tuned several ashtapadis and brahmendral kritis but many contemporaries and subsequent artists paid scant regard to the Pitamaha's advise and we know how many versions we have now of these kritis.

Fortunately Annamacharya kritis were spared as there was sort of an institutionalised scheme for tuning them by Vidwans like Nedunuri garu.

[ram1999]

We have to retain Carnatic music which is fighting a stiff competition from the other genres. ...

Not sure if CM is facing stiff competition from other genres ! In the 80s / 90s there were talks that CM was fading away and losing the charm, but new artists came up, new sabhas spiralled / mushroomed, CM became more popular in other countries and far away towns/villages.
Lately there has been an overdose of CM concerts and there are many youngsters who have taken CM as a full time professions, and some of them are really really good. If there is competition, this wouldnt have been possible !!

saying that CM is facing competition from other genres is akin to offering tirunelveli halwa to to some musicians who are claiming on popularizing CM by taking it to kuppam without which CM would die a natural death. WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL in saying so

/

[arunsri]

Still we have another group of kritis where the tunes to the existing sahitya are set by later vidwan/s. Ashtapadi, sadasivabrahmendra kritis, some Tarangams of Narayanatheertha etc have heavily born the brunt of this rather free for all exercise.

Even in this case, stalwarts like Semmangudi held that the person tuning them first shall be recognized by retaining his varnamettu. He had tuned several ashtapadis and brahmendral kritis but many contemporaries and subsequent artists paid scant regard to the Pitamaha's advise and we know how many versions we have now of these kritis.

Fortunately Annamacharya kritis were spared as there was sort of an institutionalised scheme for tuning them by Vidwans like Nedunuri garu.

AFAIK, Kritis of Trinity and several post trinity vaggeyakaras --- have given both dhaatu and maatu. Composers like Annamayya, Brahmendrar, narayana teertha, and for that matter even P'Dasa have not given compositions in P-AnuPallavi and Charanam format (Kriti). Theirs was the kirtana format with minimal sangatis, if any. Many of them, I am sure would have assigned ragas too. If the original varnamETTu is found and someone is able to set to tune based on the intended raga/tala set up---BY ALL MEANS, we must follow that. There cannot be conflicting views on this. Unfortunately, due to lack oaf 'visible' shishya parampara, these compositions along with their original tunes are not available. Some Annamayya kirtanas are in ragas which are no longer in vogue. Prof. SRJ had mentioned that there were lot of kirtanas of Annamayya in janya rAgas of mAyAmALavagauLa like pADI, sALaganATa etc.. which are no longer in vogue.

Thus, IMHO, the point that one needs to preserve and propagate the original setting (raga / tala/ structure) of a composition irrespective of whose composition it is, cannot be over emphasised.

[Vakulabharana]

The point being, most of us are 'conditioned' to hearing a version and therefore even liking it 'stockholm syndrome'.

Even I feel the same. Let us assume a kid is exposed to these old versions for a considerable period of time. After that, will he be able to accept the present versions? For him , present versions will not hear foreign ?

But, we cannot and there is no need to change the present versions. At the same time, it is the duty of music students, musicians and rasikas tp support and preserve these versions for posterity.

The link given here deals with this topic; the evolution of ragas or how commonly heard ragas would have been in the past by analysing old versions which can not be heard anymore. Liking or not liking these versions is subjective. But, you cannot avoid enjoying the beauty of these old versions once you erase the "conditioning phenomenon" from your brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiHwOoJQ7As&t=784s

[rajeshnat]

Very nice point arunsri and narayanan - I am for sure in the camp where the original raga that was tuned should not be tampered with.
Personally for trinity krithis the knowledge of original raga is very much there that too with the advent of internet , though nadatanumanisham in cittaranjani is more lovelier possibly any kharaharapriya janya is very likely an aesthetic winner when compared to jankardhwani. Blame it on ariyakudi ramanuja iyengar who first retuned yaaro ivar yaaro from saveri to bhairavi.

Having said krithis especially PD ,Sadashiva brahmendra ,Naryana theerthar and Annamacharya are way too fragmented , it would be nice atleast in the future no more new artists tune that in another raga. How many sarvam brahmamayam versions are there.

There are some exceptions to the rule like say mahakavi bharathiyar , take the song theertha karai thannilE many musicians especially present performing ones have retuned to bring their tunesmith persona for the song. For most bharathiyar songs ,there is atleast 3 to 7 versions of songs from different schools . That liberty is also enriching the music as the recessive tunesmith persona within dominant singing persona is also known to the rasikas world. mahakavi bharathiyar songs are always tuned by every new vidwan/vidushi which is fine too.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Mention must be made of K Viswanath's film Sankarabharanam released in 1980 which contributed in no measure to revive an almost dying art, if not a profession in carnatic music!