Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan

Classical Music of North India
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drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

Thanks a lot SR

meena
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Post by meena »

BGAK interview conducted by Uma Sharma ... just one word WOW
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Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 10:14, edited 1 time in total.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Meena
This is worth a Million dollars.
thank you so much.
and what a conicidence..just when I have been unravelling a sizeable volume of unidexed BGAK recordings - Will get back with some some more juicy additions here.

jayaram
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Joined: 30 Jun 2006, 03:08

Post by jayaram »

Aha, what an interview! It's great to listen to lovely Urdu spoken by the maestro. And he breaks into singing during the interview...! Uma-ji being a great artiste herself, asks all the right questions.

Truly a collectors' item. Thank you, Meena.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Ravi
Time for you take up your Pen and write a ball by ball commentary.

divakar
Posts: 197
Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

thanks meenaji for the interview link.

nice to know his way of singing. he was more than willing to speak at length. he nicely demonstrates 'dilution' and 'mixture' in HM.
he mentions an interesting anecdote about peacock..
makes fun of 'cArukESi'.

meena
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Post by meena »

kji/divakarji

ur welcome.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

coolkarni wrote:Ravi
Time for you take up your Pen and write a ball by ball commentary.
Give me a day or two, and I will do it!

meena
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Post by meena »

look fwd to it shankar.

kalgada78
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Post by kalgada78 »

Very Nice!!..Thanks much Meena!
My personal favorite from him is Pahadi..Great soul indeed!

Sarma.

meena
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Post by meena »

:)

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

http://www.sendspace.com/file/14wflr

a rare beauty - BGAK in a talkative mood and singing Miya Malhar

divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

Kji:
rare beauty indeed. It was like a class/lec-dem. quite informal. how nicely he sings!
shall put effort in understanding the aspects of HM..
Tis really tempting.
thanks for sharing.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

divakarji
imagine my ecstasy when I frst hear these outpourings from long forgotten tapes/tracks , owned by people who can barely distinguish between Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Ghulam Ali.

be ready for ten more such experiences.
here is the next
http://www.badongo.com/file/2478242

megh malhar

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

http://www.badongo.com/file/2479235
hameer as contrasted to Kedar

http://www.badongo.com/file/2479158
a sweet sweet bit in malkauns
On days of such discoveries , -especially at points like 3mts 29 secs here-My Late Dad would dip his daily intake of banana slices in honey before eating, exclaiming
'Even the Gods may not be able to anticipate what can be produced by such sweet creative minds !!)

divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

oh! not so fast. Kji, just 'divakar' will do.

best moment in miya ki malhar i felt was around 19:20 in the clip. although there are several other places which were very nice.

knandago2001
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09

Post by knandago2001 »

Listening to Khan saheb singing Paar karo mori nayya in Todi is so moving.... He is certainly forthcoming on his views in that interview. I remain amazed at his voice control and note accuracy. Thank you Coolkarni Sir for these treasued recordings. A vibrant Nayaki Kanhra by the maestro
http://www.badongo.com/file/2484692

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

thanks for the Nayaki Kanada Track-Was new to me.

http://www.badongo.com/file/2479495
chayanat

http://www.badongo.com/file/2479666
Puriya kalyan

more and more amazing stuff

divakar
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Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

wonderful clips (hameer and malkauns). Kji, thanks for sharing. feel like listening to them along with you.

Is madhyamAvati a CM equivalent of 'mEgh malhar' ?
listening to the swaras i felt so. can anyone throw light. thanks.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Is madhyamAvati a CM equivalent of 'mEgh malhar'
Kansens reply... YES.
Now lets wait for the replies of the Tansens.
Madhmath Sarang looks a very close raga ,too.

http://www.badongo.com/file/2487941
a 2 mt beauty by Kumar Gandharv
feel like listening to them along with you.
I listen to each and every track that I post thrice.Once while selecting.Next while I am typing out my post.Lastly after I observe that the link has had a few hits.
So You ARE listening to them along with me...
Anyway Hyderabad to Chennai is just a 16 hour journey ??
I am yet to make plans for my Summer holidays ..
:P

meena
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Post by meena »

its vizag to chennai :)

divakar
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Post by divakar »

what a voice! and how well he sings!
thansk Kji for sharing. wonderful chayanat. his talking in between makes it rare.

knandago2001
thanks for sharing nayaki kanada. really very nice.

meena
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Joined: 21 May 2005, 13:57

Post by meena »

A special birth centenary feature :

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Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 10:14, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

meena wrote:BGAK interview conducted by Uma Sharma ... just one word WOW
http://sarangi.info/2007/03/10/intervie ... -ali-khan/
Here is my attempt at translating the Uma Sharma (US) BGAK interview. I am not sure if I got all of it. khAn sAheb's speech is so muffled in places, it is hard to get what he's saying. And his urdu is very raiIs (chaste) - kinda harder for me!
Part 1:
US and BGAK exchange greetings!
US: I apologize in advance for troubling you. Can you tell us about the gharAnA you are associated with?
BGAK: I am from the famous gharAnA of punjAb. My forefathers, including my father and his younger brother (cacA) took lessons from stalwarts of this gharAnA from paTiAlA. Since I am a student of my dad and uncle, I have also become known as a product of the paTiAlA gharAnA.
US: Did you learn from anyone other than your father and uncle?
BGAK: No, just from them.
US: When did your lessons start?
BGAK: I started when I was 5 years old.
(AT THIS POINT ~1:27 min, there seems to be a break in continuity - while the interruption is seamless, the topic changes distinctly)
US: Can you demonstrate for us?
BGAK: First demo - 'ab mOrE nayyA pAr karO'
US: Of all the current singers, I love your style the best. Can you please highlight the stellar elements of your gharAnA?
BGAK: Well, I am not sure they are all stellar, but the distinguishing features of our gharAnA are: 1. maintaining the clarity of the mujra (which literally means obeisance, but I think he means the lyrics), 2. sweetness and clarity and range of the voice 3. maintaining the shruti (sur kA saccAyI) 4. sthAyI antari kA bharnA (I do not know what sthAyi antari means, but he uses it later - and from that I surmise that it is a style singing), 5. Maintaining the tempo accurately 6. maintaining the purity and beauty of the rAg and 7. singing in vilambit. He says that the specialty of their style is to not let the rAg expansion deteriorate into a type of Thumri. He then demonstrates how to keep the rAg pure, and then shows how it can be 'contaminated' by singing it in Thumri style. He says a Thumri is sung ordinarily and it is halkA (light).
US: Is your voice a divine gift, or have you achieved it through riyAz (practice)?
BGAK: The gift of a facile voice is always a divine one. But with the correct practice technique, you can expand your range - a thin voice that can span octaves can be made heavier (he uses the word cauDhA - which literally means broader), while a heavy voice can be made to increase it's range.
(There seems to be some confusion here - US asks for a demo, and BGAK thinks she is asking him to demo the practice techniques - but they clarify matters, and he demonstrates the amazing range of his voice!) He also says that common man (read that for me definitely) will not be able to understand some of the points he made - (I held my breath to see if he too would come up with an IQ cutoff like our Sarmaji - msakella - but fortunately, he did not :) )
US: We all know that you are THE expert on khayAl singing, and you consider ThumrIs to be light. But I know you can sing ThumrIs very well. Can you tell me what are the different styles of ThumrIs? (They use the word ThumrI kA ang - which literally means 'parts of the ThumrI', but contexually, 'style' seems a better fit than parts).
BGAK: That is an excellent question. There is only one style. It originated in the East (I assume he means east of Punjab - possibly Pakistani Punjab to be even more specific) - 50 years ago, my cacA and father started to sing pUrabI ThumrIs...there are no lyrics for ThumrIs in punjAb - as it evolved, it took on the local or folk tunes of punjAb. While it is light, it is not easy to sing. I will demonstrate both types: the first is in the 'original', pUrabI style.

Demos 'tEri tircchi naz(j)ariyA' -
BGAK: This is a very difficult style to sing - this should be sung by people with clean thoughts (pious people).

He moves over to demo a punjAbI style ThumrI, 'wafAdAr na kehnA zAlim'. He then sings a sindhI style, which according to him is a mixed style with no beauty...Finally he shows his style:
US: How about your personal style?
BGAK: My technique combines the beauty of both styles. I do not give you the shakal (form) of a rAg, but rather, the form of a bouquet (guldastA)! I will show you rAg bhairav - uskO shuddh karke gAnA hai - I will clean it up (from the sindhI style)...
He demos it and says, 'it is mainly like the pUrbi style, but there are several vakra swaras introduced.'
US: What is a pahADI? Is that a kind ThumrI?
BGAK: It is a folk melody. My uncle and ustAd khAn met in Jammu.
He then demos a few seconds...and the track ends.
(The last part is confusing)

Part 2 will follow soon!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

Thank you Meena.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

Meena
thank you for the sruti article.

rshankar
wonderful.. great work. thank you so much for the effort and time you put in.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

You are welcome, Divakar! I enjoyed the interview - BGAK is so mesmerizing.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

rshankar
i think it comes in the second part, he sings in a typical bengoli style. how well he demonstrates..!!

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!! Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal. With regard to "thumri ke ang", the purab style (originating from Banaras in UP) emphasizes narration of lyrics (bol banao - Thumri derives from "thumak" and is sometimes included in Kathak dance recitals for abhinaya). The bandish ka thumri on the other hand, resembles a chhota khayal. With regard to the "patiala" or "panjabi" ang, BGAK saheb gives us a sampling of "tirchi najariya ke baan" and also a delightful "ras ke bhare tore nain" in his interview. Khan saheb also mentions "kans swaron ka khel" and "suron ka lagaav" during raag vistaar. His recordings of allied ragas such as Darbari Kanhada (a poorvaanga pradhana raga) and Adana (an uttaranga pradhana raga) illustrate this aspect beautifully.
Meena: Thanks for the birth centenary feature on BGAK saheb from Sruti. Opinions may vary but I felt that the statement "Other than his recorded music, the BGAK legacy is negligible" was condescending. He was a great artiste who exemplified aesthetic refinement; a gifted composer with a catholicity of outlook unparalleled in his time - his compositions on "Himachalkumari" and "Har Mahadev" bear ample testimony - Suhaan Allah; a torch bearer of a glorious tradition that went on to nourish the talents of Munawwar Ali Khan Saheb and more recently Pandit Ajoy Chakraborty. That he gives Coolkarni, Divakar, Meena and Shankar so much to share with all of us is indeed BGAK saheb's lasting legacy.

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

knanadago
You can look forward to some more rare tracks (long versions) of Yaman , Malkauns , Darbari and Adana.You must have missed a Video that was uploaded here , a few years ago.Will round up my part with that video , at the end.

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

Coolkarni Sir aap meherbaan ho main aapkaa aabhaari hoon. itna kuch sunne ko mil raha hai ki main to bilkul fida ho gaya... leejiye BGAK saab ke bhai Ustad Barkat Ali Khan ka gaya hua "ras ke bhare tore nain" aur "tum radhe bano shyam" suniye
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549393
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549394

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

knandago2001 wrote:main to bilkul fida ho gaya.
coolkarni sAb pE :rolleyes: :lol:

meena
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Post by meena »

kji/divakar/knandago and shankar,
ur welcome, here's few more wonderful articles/ lovely tracks , incase u missed: DELETED

shankar
and THANKS again :)
Last edited by meena on 06 May 2008, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

knandago2001 wrote:I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!!
I am flattered! THANKS. But I have to say that sometimes it is way beyond my means to translate, because I am at a loss for words to communicate the beauty of some of khAn sa'ab's statements.
knandago2001 wrote:Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal.
THANKS. I was hoping someone would explain that. He uses it repeatedly, esp. in part II of the interview.

Your explanation of the Thumri was excellent. Please continue to proof my translations, and add explanations where necessary. I am only translating the language; I do not have sufficient credentials to understand, let alone translate, the 'melody' that seems to be inherent to every breath (and not just in his music) of this great man.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

ravi - thanks. It allowed me to atleast relate a bit to the interview even though i understand 0% of the words :)

A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?

Of course not knowing what he is saying i dont know which is which and so apologies for any gross misunderstanding.

Arun
Last edited by arunk on 24 Mar 2007, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

First 10 minutes of Part II:
This part is very much conversation intense, and I may have missed pieces here and there - like I said, the beauty of the language is simply unrivalled, and so, parts may have been 'lost in translation' (in my opinion, the beauty of urdU may even rival Ms Johansson's undeniable charms!). Please feel free to correct any of the missed/mis-translated parts.

The track begins with the conclusion of the pahADI piece that was begun at the end of Part I.
BGAK: His voice (I presume he means his cacA) was so sweet. We can never forget the tune and how we lost ourselves in it. This tune is from punjAb.
US: Your gharAnA has made this 'yours'. You own it now!
BGAK: It was his to begin with, and today, my voice is his.
Other Male Voice: With a possible contribution from the land (zamIn) - (the influence of the culture of punjAb)
BGAK: Oh Yes! The connection to the land is definite and tangible, and is present in everyone and everywhere.
US: You have seen several generations of musicians, and have interacted with many stalwarts. Can you share those experiences with us, and highlight their personalities and the characteristics of their music?
BGAK: The stalwarts of the old! They do not make them like that anymore! When I think of them, my heart grows heavy. What can I say about them? With their rigorous practice they became emperors (bAdSA) of music, and whoever heard them was enslaved. If I have to tell you what set them apart, then it will be their ability to fill the sthAyi antari (see knanandago2001's explanation for this), the ability to sing the rAg correctly (this part was muffled, but I think he means 'at the correct time, in the right way), and training their voices and setting it perfectly to the tAnpurA (exacting Sruti alingment) - this is disappearing these days. They did not play fast and loose with the rAg or their devotion, or play to the audience (I think he means changing the pattern of the concert based on the kind/size of the audience). Whenever they sang, wherever they sang, they created a thing of beauty.
US: Can you mention the names of a few of these stars whose music is still fresh in your memory?
BGAK: My great-grandfather (pardAdA) ustAd khAn sAheb's (did not catch his name - I think he moved his face away from the mike) son, khAn sa'ab umrAo pAshA - he demonstrated the best technique to sing a khayAl - subhAn allAh - he was unique! khAn sAheb nazIr khAn murAdAbAdI - he was unrivalled. I found something unique in his singing. Then there were khAn sAheb allAhbandE khAn and nasIruddin khAn who were also wonderful. I loved their 'vilambat' singing. It stood out as vilambat unlike what I hear today. My teachers used to say that there are some rAgs that have everything and you can do anything with them. Then, there are some that are not that fulfilling or fun-filled (mazEdAr nahIn hai) . One such is cArukESi.
Other male voice: cArukESi is an rAg from South (India).
BGAK: The rAg can be from anyhwhere, North, East, West, or South - I am only concerned about the purity og the rAg. He sings the mUrchana of chArukESi to demo whay it is not a good rAg in his opinion. Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi). Now the people from Madras have many rAgs. Some are undeniably great, while some are beyond my understanding. I will not call that bad!
US: Everyone has their own way of doing things.
BGAK: I prefer rAgs where the swars in the phrases are well distributed. He demos a particular phrases with couplet swaras to show why it'd be unbalanced and difficult to sing.
(He talks about vAdi and samvAdi swaras. He says the swaras have to compliment and 'help' each other.)
BGAK: Let is take tODi for example - it has beautifully balanced swar pairs (jOD) - samvAdi sur. If we miss some of the swars it will not sound so good! Now, this is what I have heard from my forefathers and learned/learnt from my own observations: rAgs where these kind of swar JOD can be made are the best. Now many people may not agree with me, and I say this hesitantly: Our elders made music and so do we - I just feel bad when our music doesn't match up to theirs. Examples are new rAgs like mArwA (? no samvAdI swar), pUriya, sOhni, kIrvAni, jOnpuri...
Other male voice: I am sure you did not hear these when you were young.
BGAK: I have not heard cArukEsi or kIrvAni when I was younger. But nowadays, people want to hear/sing some new rAg. I was taught a few rAgs and told to practice and get better in singing them. Now, I have grown old practicing those, and I will continue to polish them until my dying day. Our elders have chosen 15 - 20 rAgs that are beautiful and complete and have everything to offer. There are only 7 surs, what more can you do with them?
US: In your opinion, what will the fate of our classical music and do you think of the efforts to keep it alive.
BGAK: Music has changed with time and will continue to do so. But one great thing is that this art form (kalA) has come into it's own now. In the olden days, people were not that into music (gAnA bajAnA), but nowadays they are very much into it - and I feel excited (like I have just come into this field). But I have to ask myslef this: Of the thousands that come to concerts these days, how many are truly knowledgeable? In the past the rAjA/nawAb/tAluqdAr etc used to be in the audience and there were probably 20-30 people in the audience, but they were connoissseurs. These patrons were the ones who were responsible for keeping the artform alive. To get a token of appreciation from them (a 'wAh wAh') was almost impossible - more difficult that even getting paid for the concert!

OTHER PARTS TO FOLLOW.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

arunk wrote:A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?
Arun
Arun, I think that is exactly what he means. He calls a Thumri light, but then says that it is hard to sing a little bit later. So, if something is light, but hard to sing, then I wonder what something that is heavy (like a khayAl) will be - impossible?

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

BTW, I wonder what BGAK would have to say to BMK - the inventor of rAgas with 3 and 4 swars!

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »

There is a Darbari that I am working upon now , where Bade laments
People say - I am a thumri singer - as is there not a world of difference between the two ?
And sings the Thumri bit in Darbari first

http://www.badongo.com/file/2554722

And then when he takes up the Khayal bit in Darbari- It is like a storm gathering on the horizon...

More later.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

edited
Last edited by divakar on 25 Mar 2007, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

rshankar wrote:Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi).
He says- of the 5 swaras(R,G,M,D,N), all except gAndhAra are as in jOnpuri. ANd that they all form vAdi-samvAdi pairs except gAndhAra which stands as the odd man out. Hence the other 4 (cArO~n) got together and filed a case against gAndhAra and hence the name cArukESi :)

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Ah...thanks DRS! Knowing the language without the music part is a real handicap to translate these conversations.
BTW, What do you think of his opinion on the 'newer' rAgs?

arunk
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

thanks ravi.

Arun

coolkarni

Post by coolkarni »


knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

Both, BGAK's uncle Ustad Kale Khan and his father Ustad Ali Baksh received extensive taalim from Ustad Fateh Ali. While BGAK spent his formative years under the wing of Kale Khan saheb, he was equally anxious to know of his father's assessment of his music. Apparently, he used to ask "Abba ab kaisi hai meri haalat?" The initial feedback "betaa jiske paas sur nahin hai, uske paas kuch bhi nahin" spurred BGAK on to more rigorous riyaaz... After this happened several times, Ali Baksh remarked "haan betaa, kuchh to achha hua hai, lekin Fateh Ali Khan Saheb ki nazdeek abhi tak bilkul nahin pahuncha!" These excerpts are taken from seminar proceedings at the ITC-SRA.

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

After listening to BGAK saheb's Darbari, I could not help wondering why this grand raga is given "light" treatment in CM. I know only two compositions (Ninadati chandana - an ashtapadi; Govardhana giri - a tarangam) in this raga. Would love to hear more from all of you in this regard.

padren68
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Post by padren68 »

removed
Last edited by padren68 on 27 Mar 2007, 07:55, edited 1 time in total.

divakar
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Post by divakar »

Kji
wonderful Darbari Kanada. another lec-dem.. very nice.
thank you.

oh! i forgot ..
the clip ends with some more to come. is that all or is there a continuation in the next clip ? just curious.
Last edited by divakar on 26 Mar 2007, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

meena
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Post by meena »

padrenji

any more from this awesome '88 conc?

divakar
Posts: 197
Joined: 26 May 2005, 06:06

Post by divakar »

padrenji

super!!
just finished listening.
Last edited by divakar on 27 Mar 2007, 07:49, edited 1 time in total.

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