Sangita Kalanidhi 2015

EighthNote · Post by **EighthNote** » 26 Jun 2015, 11:09

uday_shankar wrote: Again, if I can be believed, there is no intention to "trivialize and undervalue" but merely point out the precedence of the rhinoceros in the living room by enumerating the various attributes of said rhinoceros...two horns, armor plate, weighs two tonnes, 700 compositions, etc..

In addition to two horns, armor plate, 2 tons weight, 700 compositions, we should add another skill too ... that will put the rhino closer to SK award

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiM5aKY1yKI

kolenidhi · Post by **kolenidhi** » 26 Jun 2015, 11:18

EighthNote wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiM5aKY1yKI

Imagine if the same were done by SR - all decked in jewellery and jasmine

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 26 Jun 2015, 11:32

EighthNote wrote:In addition to two horns, armor plate, 2 tons weight, 700 compositions, we should add another skill too ... that will put the rhino closer to SK award

The humor would be better appreciated if you did not hide behind an anonymous handle. That robs the humor and only leaves malice behind

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 26 Jun 2015, 11:35

Uday

No offense.

But, unfortunately , his 700 compositions cannot be automatically glorified because he has self confessed. It has to go through the rigours of time like any other popular praiseworthy krithis , that weathers through all the changes. I have asked many people who are yet to know about his 700 krithis (numbers) let alone anything that immediately is striking to them.
I am putting this in the positive outlook - let it weather the time and changes and stay forever, instead of just being quickly dignified and to die out soon. I am sure when P.Sivan received the awards, his krithis were widely popular and has become a part of performences. From that angle, his 700 krithis are yet to get any due recognition , though he is a popular artiste per se , who can easily get them reached. If there is an opinion that people are stonewalling it, it is a different topic altogether.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 26 Jun 2015, 11:36

kolenidhi wrote:Imagine if the same were done by SR - all decked in jewellery and jasmine

More malice...getting pretty low.

Maybe the MODS can close the thread.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 26 Jun 2015, 12:41

CommonMan wrote:If only the MA followed its erstwhile chaste principles of not awarding SK in a year where it does not deem any musician fit.

Or, why not give it to Mandolin Srinivas (posthumously)? Most of us seem to have forgotten him completely including MA.

sirsub11 · Post by **sirsub11** » 26 Jun 2015, 12:48

Let me once again disrupt - constructively. Another fine piece of writing, written well before the SK award for 2015 was announced. Worth reading for its own sake.

https://puliyogaretravels.wordpress.com ... rahmanyan/

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 26 Jun 2015, 17:50

I was appalled to learn, just a few years ago, of the actions of the academy with regard to one of its greatest laureates, Papanasam Sivan, on the very occasion of the conferral.

For its award to have true meaning, the academy has to do a few things:

1. Publish a statement recognizing its mistake and fully and unreservedly apologizing to Sri Sivan and his family, especially his daughter, who endured the distasteful incident with him. That will make this award actually worthy of being aspired to by discerning musicians and will speak better of those who do aspire to this award now.

2. After this is done, the academy should recognize the contributions of some of the greatest musicians who have already passed away without receiving the award, even those who refused the honor in their lifetimes. These greatest musicians, individually named, should be awarded the posthumous honor, and these artists are to be referred to as Sangeeta Kalanidhis. This would make the award truly valuable, and apolitical. One year in every decade may be dedicated to this, such as every "zero" year (2020, 30, 40, etc.) and in that year, no living musician should be awarded the title.

3. Prohibit lobbying, even for #2 above. Invite suggestions during an early period with a set deadline, following which a shortlist of a fixed small number of musicians is to be announced. No shortlist should be announced in the years when musicians who are no longer with us are being considered and honored.

I do not see how an award that allows lobbying and has overlooked wonderful singers for political or other non-musical reasons can be considered truly valuable as an indicator of musical greatness. After all the awardees are happy or humbled because of the recognition they feel their music, and not their savvy social skills, has received.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Jun 2015, 19:33

A few posts ago, it was pointed out that the MA "Experts Committee" membership is published on their site. Many of them are SKs themselves, others are distinguished scholars, musicologists, etc. Why would they invite suggestions from outside? Even if it might actually be a good idea, I would expect that they consider themselves to be plenty "expert" enough.

Being expert is the whole point of an Experts Committee!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jun 2015, 19:45

Are some constructive suggestions rising out of the chaos now? That is, if the Academy pays attention to suggestions from its consumers--even as they come in spite of their possessed state?

Sachi and Ranganayaki, Nick,
You are a breath of fresh air in this toxic atmosphere

Someone open those windows wide to let in some air!

AND, shut that front door so as to not allow more of rubbish from folks who like to watch an ugly scene, even at the peril of pledging their own dignity, temporary as it may be, like a sot bad mouthing people he respects and cares for, in his inebriate state

That we have an increased number of membership suddenly is no matter for us to feel happy...

bhargavi_b · Post by **bhargavi_b** » 26 Jun 2015, 21:04

But, unfortunately , his 700 compositions cannot be automatically glorified because he has self confessed. It has to go through the rigours of time like any other popular praiseworthy krithis , that weathers through all the changes. I have asked many people who are yet to know about his 700 krithis (numbers) let alone anything that immediately is striking to them.

I am sure when P.Sivan received the awards, his krithis were widely popular and has become a part of performences. From that angle, his 700 krithis are yet to get any due recognition , though he is a popular artiste per se , who can easily get them reached. If there is an opinion that people are stonewalling it, it is a different topic altogether.

As a disciple of Shri Ravikiran, I should share the fact that my Guru has only encouraged us to present the masterpieces of Trinity, OVK and other great composers and never asked us to be the flag-bearers to propogate his compositions. Therefore it is quite obvious why he has not made any attempt to get them reached !!!

However, I would be happy to share links to some of his compositions like the Pancha raga pancha jati malika tillana (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihhXS11LzIk) that he composed as a finale for the dance opera "Lakshmi Prabhavam" that was premiered in Cleveland and his 7 minute piece that traverses the 72 melakartas in Carnatic music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFJ9MLR7do). There are several artistes who have rendered his compositions including popular artistes like Unnikrishnan, Abhishek, Kunnakkudi Balamuralikrishna (who has rendered a whole thematic concert consisting of his compositions) and Akkarai sisters.

About 40 of his compositions were published into a book, accompanied by a DVD (where my Guru has taught his compositions) called Sada Sharanam, This was released by Shri T N Seshagopalan, Shri Umaiyalpuram Sivaraman and Shri N Murali in 2009. His compositions have been performed by world legends like Glen Velez, BBC orchestra and his dance operas like Ramayana & Mahabharata have been performed by legends like Pt Birju Maharaj and Shri C V Chandrasekhar. Here is a link to his recent presentation of his dance compositions for Natyarangam (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DsuUeTb6M). I would be most happy to share audios of many of his compositions.

Interestingly, my Guru himself states why he does not play his own compositions in this concert with Trichy Sankaran Sir and Smt Lalgudi Viji !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmlcGI1h1zw

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jun 2015, 22:23

Bhargavi,
Thank you for your post

Who said ignorance is bliss? If it is true, when folks think of attacking the very
individuals who are rich sources of the CM they seem to worship, labeling them as low lives, what bliss is there in it

With his innumerable students, Ravikiran could fill their lists with a couple of his own compositions in every concert. Play them in his own concerts ceaselessly. Really! Let's stop counting compositions and think of the musical powers in the individual!

Again, I am confused. In all this mayhem, those who perpetrate irrelevant and hurtful statements, some of whom know more about music than a dozen of us put together--are they guided solely by their taste, and even worse, by their lack of goodwill towards their fellowmen? And the elevating qualities which are supposed to be brought about in us by music--where do they go and hide? Curmudgeons Incorporated, madhuvanam in Sundara kANDa inspired, it seems to me...

Excuse my wild imagination...some day, your grown adult child comes to you raving about the music he/she heard of so and so. "Have you heard this great one?".

"Yes, I have, and you should have seen the way I kicked this one around like a soccer ball in a public forum!" is how you would respond? If so, I beat a retreat...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Jun 2015, 22:28

arasi wrote:Sachi and Ranganayaki, Nick, You are a breath of fresh air in this toxic atmospher

Thank you. You have known me long enough to be aware that I am no angel. You have seen me wielding the knives (sometimes just being stupid too) online. There are names that could make me get the knives out again in an SK thread, but Sanjay's is certainly not one of them.

bhargavi_b wrote:As a disciple of Shri Ravikiran, I should share the fact that my Guru has only encouraged us to present the masterpieces of Trinity, OVK and other great composers and never asked us to be the flag-bearers to propogate his compositions. Therefore it is quite obvious why he has not made any attempt to get them reached

And... of course I do not know, but I doubt very much that, however many of us wanted to see his name there this year, he himself is particularly concerned. I should be very surprised indeed if he feels slighted in any way, or passed over, or ignored.

In forty years time, if he is still not SK, then he might perhaps give it a thought or two. But now? My guess is that he is just too busy getting on with the music, the study, the teaching.

Just my theory. There are people here who know him far better than I do, which is certainly not well enough to know how he thinks.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jun 2015, 00:10

Nick,
Those were exactly my thoughts too on what RK perhaps was thinking. I had said this in a post before: that he deserved the award even earlier. That he was also thinking of it this year must be true, and it would have been true in the preceding years as well. The situation where only one gets an award per year is similar to only one getting the first prize in a competition, however good several other competitors are who take part in it.

Exactly. Ravikiran has many ideas, projects and engagements to occupy his mind that all the worthless child play of duals with cardboard (plastic?) swords are not worth his while...?

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 27 Jun 2015, 04:18

Shri. Chitravina N Ravikiran received the coveted Sangeet Natak Academy award in his 30s. Today, musicians of that age recieve the Yuva Puraskar...
The Sangeet Natak Academy as you all know, is given to musicians of the highest caliber across Hindustani & Carnatic music.
Here is a link to the list of awardees: http://sangeetnatak.gov.in/sna/awardeeslist.htm

And yes, like others have rightly pointed out, he has 700+ compositions to his credit, yet insists that we focus on those of the Trinity, OVK, etc instead. He is the one and only composer to have composed in all 35 Talas.

And arasi: You are right! While we are speculating about what he is thinking, he is probably musically busy with his next global collaboration.
May his tribe increase!!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Jun 2015, 04:29

vsuresh wrote:Shri. Chitravina N Ravikiran received the coveted Sangeet Natak Academy award in his 30s. Today, musicians of that age recieve the Yuva Puraskar...
The Sangeet Natak Academy as you all know, is given to musicians of the highest caliber across Hindustani & Carnatic music.

... And yet, (correct me if I am being forgetful) the only response to the award here is a quick mention and congratulations when it falls to our Carnatic musicians. Did we ever get into controversy about it? Did we ever argue the names that should have got it, or dissect the reasons why those that did, did?

I suppose we must have our annual shindig over SK (yes, me too) but, really, we all take the Music Academy a bit too seriously.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 27 Jun 2015, 04:58

Did we ever get into controversy about it? Did we ever argue the names that should have got it, or dissect the reasons why those that did, did?

Good point. Our reactions are inconsistent but most of us will admit that it is real ( whatever the reason may be ).

It is even more curious that SK is known to at best, what, half a million people? After a few years, those who pay peripheral attention to this would not know the difference between SK and SS ( Sangita Samrat)!

But still SK is prestigious, in spite of comments to the contrary in this thread. In fact, that is why anyone rejecting the award is also considered significant.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 27 Jun 2015, 05:59

Well, in a year, Sangeet Natak is given to many. Probably people find that less interesting.

As far as Ravikiran, my opinion is, leaving the composition part of his, his chitraveena part itself is worthy of SK. The sheer excellence way of playing, harnessing the instrument that is almost impossible.. and to that level, his knowledge. HIs composition part will need another recognition and commemoration sometime later when it is more popularized. I will be more happy to see him playing , but I could appreciate his modesty as reverence for other compositions as stated by his students. Bhargavi b , you seemed to have missed my whole point about his compositions. It may be extraordinary, but it has to be popularised more and more , and he can only do it better and more effectively in that case, esp with the number of compositions. And that should culminate with a commemoration.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 27 Jun 2015, 07:12

Musicians should accept the award Sangeethakalanidhi whenever Music Academy offers to the individual.This may not be in order of seniority as seen in case of Guruji TVG .Refusal of the award leaves a bitter taste for ever.
I am sure Ravikiran deserves the award for his all round contributions in music as well as the human values he has exhibited.One recent instance is the Tambura Award in which Rasikas participated unofficial.He moved the matter thro Carnatica and as publicized a function was held to honor 8 Tambura artists.
Congratulations to Sri Sanjay for winning the prestigious award from MA.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jun 2015, 07:56

Bhagwa(A)n uvAca

Someone asked: do they ever raise a ruckus about the sangeetha Acharya award! Something to think about.

I suppose that apart from personal tastes in the music of a particular musician (important factor), there are other factors which bring about dissonance: not caring particularly for the school he/she hails from...they keep giving it to those from TN overlooking other states,they keep awarding old/young people, and the list is endless.

Academy too, apart from being political--those veterans in the title business--are also considering the above mentioned factors (rotation, mainly), along with the rest of their concerns

Above all, there is the temperament of the rasikas who get carried away in this strange SK rag time fest! This year I think, though the thread was started late (was the Academy a bit early too in announcing?), we had a 'feathers flying' cock fight scenario rather than one in the usual kids having a pillow fight style

Well, calm after a storm I hope, and all seems to be well with the world...

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 27 Jun 2015, 09:02

Thathasthu !
Amen !
Thaanjavooran
27 06 2015

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 27 Jun 2015, 13:01

ganesh_mourthy wrote:Uday

No offense.

But, unfortunately , his 700 compositions cannot be automatically glorified because he has self confessed. It has to go through the rigours of time like any other popular praiseworthy krithis , that weathers through all the changes.

Well, can we now expect the man who digs up obscure Tamil compositions to propagate and popularise Ravikiran's compositions?

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 27 Jun 2015, 13:03

hnbhagavan wrote:Musicians should accept the award Sangeethakalanidhi whenever Music Academy offers to the individual.This may not be in order of seniority as seen in case of Guruji TVG .Refusal of the award leaves a bitter taste for ever.

The future N Murali of the Madras Music Academy can go to Ravikiran's house and offer him the Lifetime Achievement Award!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Jun 2015, 13:28

I have some wonderings about the committee and the award. They are not meant to be controversial, but if people want to make them so I expect they will find a way.

The majority of the MA Experts Committee are SK. Does SK come with an invitation to the committee (guilty: I am lazy to consult the two lists and see what living SKs are not on the committee)? Does the committee award SK to its own members? It may well be that some of those who are not SK already are deserving candidates.

The list is obviously out of date for the saddest of reasons. The names of late members are there; there may be current names missing.

The MA, that projects itself as being modern and professional, can't keep its website up to date on a day-to-day basis!

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 18:04

rajeshnat wrote: I was thinking that musicicans like OST, Mannargudi easwaran , aruna sairam will surely get it and then Ravikiran/ Vijay/Sanjay generation will be touched

Is this a spot the odd one puzzle? Thanks for an easy one. I know i got it right!

my inconsequential 2 cents

With SR becoming SK a few years ago, what is the big fuss about SS this year? atleast what SS gives is truly truly his own and comes from intense exercise of internalizing unlike the former..

On an independent note - The clinching factors about SS are the intense hard work, constant adaptation, quick learning and refinements to his approach, a near perfect rapport he develops with the audience, arguably among the best creativity on stage, an enviable repertoire and more..

The usual casualties, however are - Sruthi alignment, Sowkyam, Shanti and a sense of content (at least it creates a discontent in me). I recall particularly the way periyAzhwAr's tiruppallANDu was mangled beyond recognition - with exuberant swara kalpana and far-from melodious staccato singing - simply because it was in nATTai? to add to that, totally insensitive beating of drums by Neyveli Venkatesh ji. appappaa.. thaanga mudiyalai. This is just one example. i usually have to detox myself after an SS concert - with somoe soulful renditions of the same ragams and songs from my own collection of exponents. Mixing in my mind - the stalwarts style of singing and bhAam with SS musical ideas! Without this homework, the SS concert experience is quite inadequate.

Yet, i look forward to every concert of his, i get dejected if i cant get a tkt, secretly i get annoyed because he sings to overflowing halls and auditoriums in spite of melody and finesse being casualties - i keep wondering how! If today's average rasika likes excitement and titillation (we even saw a nomination for AS!) and MA's halls outside with the LCD screen gets repeatedly filled up for an artist - i guess they have their job of selecting an SK much simplified!! Why bother finding out who started singing at birth, playing the rare veena like he is from another planet, who fills the listeners ears and hearts with music steeped in aesthetics etc...

Remember reading an interview with SSI in Hindu - he refers to some kinda music as "nuni-cheeppu vAzhai"... If we have to look at the under-50-SK club and do a spot the "nuni-cheeppu vAzhai" puzzle, i think the answer would be quite straightforward!

Alas, if "nuni-cheepu vAzhai" is the order of the day - what do we choose from?

regards
-Incon

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 27 Jun 2015, 18:13

inconsequential ,

Beyond a point you lost me

. I will reread and reread. It seemed to be vazhapazhathil oosi style.

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 27 Jun 2015, 18:39

The usual casualties, however are - Sruthi alignment, Sowkyam, Shanti and a sense of content (at least it creates a discontent in me).

Shruthi alignment is key in my humble opinion, and is the hallmark of good music globally, and not just in CM.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 27 Jun 2015, 18:54

who is impressively shruti suddham to you these in the present day music? Just to know ho much it has improved over the years.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:16

Dear all,
I have always found listening to CM and discussing CM to be a truly humbling experience, and this statement reinforces my feeling:

Remember reading an interview with SSI in Hindu - he refers to some kinda music as "nuni-cheeppu vAzhai"... If we have to look at the under-50-SK club and do a spot the "nuni-cheeppu vAzhai" puzzle, i think the answer would be quite straightforward!

I feel like a PK from another planet wondering what this item, presumably to be eaten, is.
Kindly clarify, expound, expand, elaborate, amplify, illustrate, and explain with reference to context.

This is a must for me just like a detox diet is recommended for some listeners after hearing some music.

Thanks

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:46

vsuresh,
indeed sruti alignment is central to any good music. No one is denying that.

G_M
On the one hand, it is impossible not to marvel at the greatness (in certain dimensions) of SS. On the other hand - Does his music really give a wholesome classical experience shAstriya sangItam is expected to give? Personally, i am not sure.

Reference to the doyen's (SSI) comment (nuni-cheeppu vaazhai) may have thrown you off. Experiments and gymnastics have to be done off stage, at home or elsewhere. The classical stage requires that only well formed, chiseled formations be presented - be it phrases in alapanai, kanakkus in kalpana swrams, or even the selection of songs - It appears now, singing anything in tamizh is good enough. An artist has the licence and liberty to experiment any amount. But a performing artist also has a responsibility to sieve out the chaff from the grain. The lack of this discretion is what is referred to as nunicheeppu vAzhai. There is no doubt about what all he can do. But there is every doubt about the aesthetics of what all he does. Has his music ripened to a level where you can slip in and feel transported? Are the excesses trimmed and only the essence presented?

On the tamizh movement: I am unable to appreciate this big drama about singing in tamizh. The songs rendered neither seem to be rich in lyrical content, nor melody. Quite ordinary most times. I fail to understand how this can be a distinction. It is his personal preference which has endeared him to rasikas more. If we look around - a good cross section of this tamizh enthusiastic rasikas would possibly understand 10% of pure tamizh (at best)! Anyway, for an artist like SS - how does it matter what language the lyric is in? The song is just a substrate for him to display his virtuosity anyway. Born in times of heavy multi-cultural and multi lingual influence - almost all of us have lost the diction that is needed for a purely classical experience, anyways! Having said this, i do like the viruttams he sings.

I recall a funny remark by a friend of mine who is not deep into carnatic - but not averse to it. We went to a concert of SS and for most part my friend was quietly taking in the musical downpour (he is not too much into sanskrit or tamizh - more an English / Hindi person) Towards the end - the tukkaDa "viswEsvar darsan kar" really shook him up. Jokingly he asked me - "does the lyric mean anything to him at all?"

Regards
-Incon

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 19:51

Rsachi wrote:I feel like a PK from another planet wondering what this item, presumably to be eaten, is.
Kindly clarify, expound, expand, elaborate, amplify, illustrate, and explain with reference to context.

This is a must for me just like a detox diet is recommended for some listeners after hearing some music.

Rsachi
Honestly i don't understand what you are asking about the 'item eating' thing? Are you saying you are unable to recognize the song because it is played on an instrument? That is true of all instrumental music, is it not? if this is not what you meant, i'd rather wait for your clarification before doing the ERC exercise.

Regards
-Incon

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jun 2015, 20:07

For laughing out loud, we are so hell-bent on discussing a laudable (read also as 'laughable', dependent on your mood, temperament and taste) institution's laughable, but to some, a worthy selection for the title of SK.

I don't think there has been a single year when the choice was deemed just right by all rasikAs in unison...

But this amount of animosity for a vidvAn who isn't perfect, agreed, but possesses many assets, and has been a key force in making CM an attractive form of entertainment (without sacrificing the traditional aspect of it) sounds eerie.

That way, is it better to grow old and get your SK without anyone registering any grievances? 'Poor man/woman, at least made it before he/she was gone...'

So, CM is to its listeners, just what they get out of it personally--their rasanA being the only aspect which counts? Why care about today's musicians reaching out to the next generation and the rest?

Is petrified music all they desire, however splendid? Or, 'don't grow new gardens, bonsai is fine?' is the chant for them?

Boy! How many lackluster SKs have preceded, when a vibrant vidvAn who has expanded the vista of CM with his imaginative heights within the realm of CM and with his hard work is taken to task by those who will not get off the beaten 'round and round the track' oxen route

I tell you, it's tough to be a CM musician today, whatever your merits and however hard working you are. In the halls where they sing, pictures hang of their elders who were great, with their faults too--how unscathed they were by virulent criticism! Today's musicians perform and get whipped for being just as good/imperfect as the ones who came before them:(

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 21:13

arasi,
I hear you. That's the whole point. If SR earlier, why not SS now. honestly, I am happy one way or another - whoever gets it.
Great respects to SS - i do follow him faithfully. All the same, i recognize that this 'tamizh' thing is way too exaggerated. Nothing extraordinary!
regards
-Incon

harahari · Post by **harahari** » 27 Jun 2015, 21:34

I don't understand this thing that everyone seems to attribute to SS : " hardworking".

Is he the only hard working musician out there ? All the good artists have to be hardworking to reach the stage they are at now .

Just because SS has a not so fluent & pliable voice & strains hard to bring out a decent briga , it shouldn't be placed above say a naturally gifted voice that can easily produce fast brigas etc.. that too in tune.

Another Great artist that most of us have forgotten & who deserves the SK is Flutist K.S. Gopalakrishnan, IMHO

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 27 Jun 2015, 21:54

I certainly like SS for his variety , especially when he is not repeating a composition in a whole tour, as quoted by Nagai Murali dharan itself, who can be the best witness.That itself is integral to singing Carnatic.

Compositions will not usually have more than 10 lines ... wait , normally. There is nothing wrong in going through those lines quickly , once before you get on the stage. The spontaneous pieces can be those which you have full confidence on.

What can be more perfunctory than having a note hidden under your shruthi box , and looking down every now and then. That is just not lack of work , but I find it insulting to be even sitting there as an audience,ecpecially when it happens routinely.

And now that SS has suddenly gone out of shruthi repeatedly in the last few days, just I wonder , who are those mellifluous shruthi , Carnatic voices ?

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 27 Jun 2015, 21:58

The list of people who deserve to awarded SK is too long.Individuals have their preferences.But alas Music Academy has its own criteria.Some times they do the unexpected like awarding SK to Sri TVG.Hence continue to hope that your favorite artist gets it god willing and MA making up its mind!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 27 Jun 2015, 22:03

I want an explanation of:
"nuni-cheeppu vAzhai"

How does it relate to SS?

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 22:09

Rsachi,
have written my interpretation of that comment and how it relates to what i feel about SS in an earlier post (#230).
Please take a look.
regards
-Incon

shankar vaidyanathan · Post by **shankar vaidyanathan** » 27 Jun 2015, 23:06

inconsequential wrote:
On the tamizh movement: I am unable to appreciate this big drama about singing in tamizh. The songs rendered neither seem to be rich in lyrical content, nor melody. Quite ordinary most times. I fail to understand how this can be a distinction. It is his personal preference which has endeared him to rasikas more. If we look around - a good cross section of this tamizh enthusiastic rasikas would possibly understand 10% of pure tamizh (at best)! Anyway, for an artist like SS - how does it matter what language the lyric is in? The song is just a substrate for him to display his virtuosity anyway. Born in times of heavy multi-cultural and multi lingual influence - almost all of us have lost the diction that is needed for a purely classical experience, anyways! Having said this, i do like the viruttams he sings.

(added bold for emphasis where I disagree)

While each of us are entitled to our own personal opinions, I am pained to read the above sweeping generalization. Kindly bear with me when I request that if you feel a certain way depending on your life experiences, you should state that from that personal view point and not indulge in generalization.

I can speak for myself as an avid Tamil student, music student, and, Carnatic enthusiast. Beyond the melody connection, I am able to bond with certain compositions. These compositions essentially stay with me. When I think about why such compositions appeal to me the most, I find that the language and Sahityam have a major role in it. The language is essentially a gateway for me to enter the domain of music without trying at all. I am able to instantly identify with it as a second nature. I try to sing back what I just heard to improve my comprehension and knowing the Sahityam and melody with the ability to connect with it on an emotional plane help me.

From this viewpoint, I have benefited from repeated listening to Tamil compositions by the past great masters (ARI, GNB, MSS, DKP, Madurai Somu, and, others) both their own as well as what they tuned. I have also benefited from Tamil compositions sung by Maharajapuram Santhanam, DKJ, TVS, TNS, NSG, and, others. Sanjay is a leading torch bearer of this tradition of furthering Tamizhisai. His application of the Nagaswara tradition in amplifying Tamil compositions appeal the most to me. I am able to see new dimensions to the Tamil Sahityam when Sanjay presents some compositions. Recordings of chosen Tamil compositions by musicians like Sowmya, TMK, Bombay Jayashri, Priya Sisters, Unnikrishnan, and, Sikkil Gurucharan also help me with my way of learning.

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 27 Jun 2015, 23:36

Shankar_vaidyanathan
Maybe you are among the 10%. and i know a few others in the forum are passionate about tamizh.
Tamizh, as received and portrayed in CM today - is that what tamizh is all about? that's what i meant. No deep knowledge of grammar is needed to understand the tamizh we hear in CM today. Give a few lines of tamizh from before a 1000 years to an average rasika and then see for yourself. Why go back 1000 years. Bharatiar songs can be challenging enough....
Regards
-Incon

tanapp · Post by **tanapp** » 28 Jun 2015, 00:11

Congratulations to Shri Sanjay Subramanian!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2015, 00:59

Ideally,we teach our children that they take the love they find at home out into the world and spread it (it's called and practiced as good will).

The same way, we learn to love our language, and in turn develop interest in other people's languages-our friend's, neighbor's, and of the city or country we go to live in as we grow up.

Ideal, I said, and possible too. If anyone wants to ridicule this notion, I would ask that person NOT to be happy about Lakshman's dedication in bringing the lyrics of tamizh songs to us.
Not to be happy that a John Higgins Bhagavathar arrived on the CM scene (a pity, he was snatched away soon).

Resistance (indifference?) in tamizh-speaking rasikAs to tamizh only indicates that their CM territory comprises only of the trinity?

Bharathi IS a good thing for the children who have no time to learn tamizh. The best in lyrics, easily understood (at least in a cursory way)...even some old verses convey the emotional impact and sit perfectly with the music, adding to the rAgAas' own lyrical qualities. Otherwise, listeners in Karnataka who may like to hear some songs in kannada, don't seem to protest hearing an old tiruppAvai sung by tamizh singers. By the same token, they also enjoy an all kannaDa krutis concerts immensely.

How many of us know telugu and sanskrit that we have not cried against their being the main part of a CM concert? The answer is: they were wrought by the trinity

Love them as I do, I love tamizh songs too in a concert.

In tamizh nADu, let not tamizh songs in a concert irk us--unless we can't think beyond T, MD and SS and think Venkata kavi's sanskrit krutis alone matter. I bring him in because though he's more ancient than the three, the fact that he sang in tamizh makes some ignore him?

Above all, are we, who are not keen at all on politics entering the hallowed halls of CM, consciously or sub-consciously denying our language its due place BECAUSE of its having been used and manipulated by powerful political parties? God knows

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2015, 01:10

More words, sorry

Our tamizh-speaking neighbors from the little island, even after being subjected to calamities and hardship--even after being uprooted and scattered over the globe are examples of having what's called mozhip paTRu--love for one's language...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 28 Jun 2015, 02:14

Incon, there has to be some good reasons why you ingest the toxins (in jest), please write about that in a clear manner without mixing the parts you don't like (which you have already written about )

That aspect is lacking in this thread. If a big fan writes about that they are discounted and occasionally they are taken to the woodshed by the distractors. With only the negatives dominating in this thread, it will be a wonder to some one new to all this why SS is even a Carnatic musician let alone a top one and let alone being worthy of SK this year or any other year. That is not just putting SS in bad light but puts our beloved CM itself in very bad light. So any contribution from you on this aspect will restore some semblance of a balance.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2015, 03:39

Yes, we need a 'semblance of a balance' and more than an ounce of sense that the collective attackers seem to show here--however truly top-notch they are in their understanding of music.

Perhaps they could have given SK to Sanjay in the next few years and it would have been fine with me, a fan. I even remember my saying a couple of years ago when someone said Sanjay, I had said that he could wait a few years. If they had someone young in mind, then perhaps Ravikiran first, was how I felt.

However, once they had decided--and when the recipient has after all achieved an enormous amount of experience and reputation in his musical life, is giving music more energy and is gaining recognition for CM, has trained several impressive young performers, is doing tamizh a service, either rasikAs are very happy that he's a deserving musician, though not their favorite--or, if they think otherwise, don't act as if they are storming the Bastille--their grabbing anything they may use to break down the gates of--what? The Academy? For what end? Sanjay? As if he has obtained failing grades and he has to be punished for it with demeaning words?

The past month or so has seen controversies galore at Rasikas. We are still reeling from them, and yet, won't give up. We have found a bone and merely for the sake contention, we jump up to grab ourselves a treat with name calling...

Obviously, Messers

and

are all out in force all at once?

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 28 Jun 2015, 06:21

ramamantra wrote:
CommonMan wrote:If only the MA followed its erstwhile chaste principles of not awarding SK in a year where it does not deem any musician fit.
Or, why not give it to Mandolin Srinivas (posthumously)? Most of us seem to have forgotten him completely including MA.

Oh boy! Then it has to start with Rajarathinam pillai, who was fond of awards and accolades as narrated by Maha vidwans like Chembai, Alathore, PMI, etc - and the controversy around awarding SK has been an integral part of MA since the inception of the award.

Chembai once openly told post a concert in seerkazhi, where he was felicitated for receiving the SK, "enakku aparam kadaika poravaalku ennoda yogyadai kammiyum kadayaadhu, Enekku munaadi SK kadaichavaal elaaarume ennoda mahaa vidwangalaum kadayaadhu, ".
In a condolence speech for RRP, he said in conclusion (to the following effect - not exactly paraphrasing) "ippo kooda kettudalai - avarukku SK kuduthudalaam....adhu andhe birudhuku dhaan perumai". There are some in the list for posthumous, Ramamantra.

And Yes Mandolin is definitely one suitable candiddate; and yet another unsung hero is Kanjira Harishankar who IMO revolutionized the art of Kanjira playing and handling the instrument. I remember PMIs son Rajamani telling my brother once that PMI felt so bad that he was way too old to encourage Harishankar on and off the stage in the late 70s (although PMI has taught Harishankar immensely); and that he saw many glimpses of Dhakshinamurthy pillai in him.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 28 Jun 2015, 06:47

vasanthakokilam wrote:If a big fan writes about that they are discounted and occasionally they are taken to the woodshed by the distractors. With only the negatives dominating in this thread, it will be a wonder to some one new to all this why SS is even a Carnatic musician let alone a top one and let alone being worthy of SK this year or any other year. That is not just putting SS in bad light but puts our beloved CM itself in very bad light. So any contribution from you on this aspect will restore some semblance of a balance.

Exactly that!

In fact Arasi and I have been curious to know( me , esp, from the time this thread started) what are those archetypal Carnatic Music voice, with that shruti perfection?

Now I am also curious to know those Noise"less" performers, toxic " free " performers too.

With the amount of hate capaign , one might think if he is worthy of continuing to sing at all?!
As I said before , I am sure, if Ravikiran had received the SK , his effigy would be burning now.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 28 Jun 2015, 06:52

CommonMan, that first quote by Chembai is worth a translation, since there is considerable concern, angst and grief expressed in this thread that there are others of SS generation and older who should have been given the award before him. Let me try. Others please fix it as necessary.
Chembai: 'Those who are going to get the award after me are no less qualified than me, those who got the award before me, not all are more qualified than me' .

It is interesting to me that Chembai even saw a need to state it in such a point blank fashion. May be it is just the typical humble way in which one accepts awards but this does not seem to have that tone. Anyway, I wonder if there were such rumblings at that time as well.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 28 Jun 2015, 07:17

Chembai: 'Those who are going to get the award after me are no less qualified than me, those who got the award before me, not all are more qualified than me' .

My interpretation of this tone of Chembai shows his indifference towards awards - a lack of benchmark in assessment. If that is what he implied in that fashion, those are golden words. As far as I heard , he was more on bhakthi marga than popularity. Most of the pictures of him are those wrapped in dothi, pattai ....

He was a great devotee of Ambal

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2015, 08:21

And Guruvayurappan

He had no pretensions, no airs, and was candid in a disarming way--if I got it right.