ONLINE PLATFORM

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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hnbhagavan
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#1 ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by hnbhagavan »

Several organizations have scheduled online concerts includes Music Academy, Fraternity of Sabhas thru Kalakendra.
Both these are paid ones. However ARkay Ramakrishnan and Naadainbam are webcasting without any charges though donations are welcome. But i doubt how many of us send the donations. Arkay repeatedly requested people to donate.People happily chat during broadcast saying Ha Ha, Very nice, Thank u Arkay etc etc. but no one responds when he seeks donation. A stunning silence follows .
Music Lovers want music but do not want to pay. The musicians who are performing Virtually also must be paid. Income even for most established musician would have come down due to lack of live concerts.
We as Music Lovers must contribute in some way.Hence i subscribed to Online concerts and hope they can get enough money to support the artists.
However we must donate for Arkay and Naadainbam to support the concert artists .

CRama
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#2 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by CRama »

Well said. Bhagavan. In fb I also one gentleman criticising Ranjani Gayathri for singing for ticketed concerts in this pandemic time.

Nick H
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#3 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

Probably people do not shout in the online chat about having made a donation. Whilst it's true that we suffer from being used to getting (in Chennai) our music for free, I suspect more people are donating than you might think.

My input on this is not to be ashamed of making modest donations: they add up. If ten people think it is not worth sending Rs.1,000, that is Rs.10,000 that doesn't get donated.

Let those that can give what they can!

I don't know why there should be a problem with artists singing for paid concerts: still their season income is probably decimated.

ramamatya
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#4 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

Where is the money?

If you have a job, your pay is halved or worse.
If you have a house, you cannot rent it out.
If you have savings, low rates and high expenses.

Nick H
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#5 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

If you are retired and live on a pension, your income is the same as it was. In this respect, the older among us may be better off. That doesn't happen often!

ramamatya
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#6 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

Oldies' medical expenses are huge. There is always some operation or the other. If not, there is corona waiting at the end of the corner. Otherwise, you spend a fortune on at-home attendants/cooks etc. Or, you are saving it all to pass it to your sons and daughters.

Nick H
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#7 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

My modest contribution is what I would have spent on fuel attending concerts. It is actually less than my usual December spend.

I appreciate that ageing comes with its own expenses. We are not young. However, if you would have been going to concerts, you would have been incurring some, if small, expense to do so.

For those that really can't afford, of course there is no question asked. For the rest of us, we can make up excuses easily enough on our own: no need to encourage that. I too am part of a culture which expects to get its music basically free :oops: :oops: :oops:

ramamatya
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#8 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

And the queen said, "Let them eat cake. "

Nick H
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#9 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

If you're buying :)

yum yum!

vasanthakokilam
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#10 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Given a lot more people can potentially attend, even if 25% of the people contribute the typical concert ticket amount, this can be a viable alternative even beyond the pandemic.

The platforms should make it as easy as possible for people to contribute. When the intention to contribute arises in the minds of Rasikas there should be very little resistance in the contribution process implemented by the platform lest that moment may pass and may not come back easily.

sankark
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#11 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by sankark »

vasanthakokilam wrote: 25 Dec 2020, 12:05 Given a lot more people can potentially attend, even if 25% of the people contribute the typical concert ticket amount, this can be a viable alternative even beyond the pandemic.

The platforms should make it as easy as possible for people to contribute. When the intention to contribute arises in the minds of Rasikas there should be very little resistance in the contribution process implemented by the platform lest that moment may pass and may not come back easily.
Hands down: UPI is such an easy world leading mechanism - Mani Krishnaswamy Academy and Arkay both have used it beautifully to accept contributions. Organizations should put their QRCode/UPI ID out to welcome contributions and put their PAN out if they are also registered charities.

sankark
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#12 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by sankark »

ramamatya wrote: 24 Dec 2020, 19:47 And the queen said, "Let them eat cake. "
Yeah, the queen also told them, on the sly in case you didn't know, feel free to expect all CM for free. Forever. I mean the musicians all are known to be adept at the art of living on just air & hope. And the organizers are adept at the art of bringing events out of nothing.

ramamatya
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#13 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

Maybe time to close shop and do more socially useful activities for CM guys. After all, reality is harsh.

I read in the papers sometime last week that some musicians including Ranjani-Gayatri and Anil Srinivasan went and performed for Covid patients in a hospital. Now, that's a good one, isn't it?

ganesh_mourthy
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#14 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

I figure the usual kind of poor lights, poor stage, poor camera angle concert does not work well for viewers contributions. One cannot just imitate the stage concert, place a camera before the team, telecast it, and make work.

There is a program called QFR which started out as a run of the mill type movie singing by a group of enthusiasts. However, Subashree thought ahead of the curve and she converted it into a successful program. She time and again explained how hard the work is. There were many interactive sessions among with viewers. She explained the song, gives snippets. More than anything, she was never reluctant to seek support and she did it in all her programs but explained why. It is time to think out of the box. It can be challenging for singers who know to sing and play the music well, but time changes and need changes. Are they not performing for the viewers? Then they should try to rope in the viewers.

hnbhagavan
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#15 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by hnbhagavan »

Pl see the programs.Kalakendra has excellent reception and gives a very good view.Music is most important and not just showing the dias.
One can give any number of reasons but you have to give cudos to the organisers who are doing a commendable job.

Nick H
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#16 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

ganesh_mourthy wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 09:36 I figure the usual kind of poor lights, poor stage, poor camera angle concert does not work well for viewers contributions. One cannot just imitate the stage concert, place a camera before the team, telecast it, and make work.
Arkay, Parivadani, and others, have been doing just that since long before covid, and yes, it does work.

Banter, etc, aside, @hnbhagavan's original post carries an important message: Please, if you can, support those who are supporting the artists and bringing us music, online, too. Let's not dilute that too much. Even if we all know it already: it bears repeating.

sankark
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#17 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by sankark »

ganesh_mourthy wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 09:36 It is time to think out of the box. It can be challenging for singers who know to sing and play the music well, but time changes and need changes. Are they not performing for the viewers? Then they should try to rope in the viewers.
Perhaps go back inside the box and just focus on audio and leave the visual out. Think radio-ish in YT or any multimedia platform. If absolutely must cycle through 30-40 snaps of the concert photos like a desktop wallpaper; make it feel more nostalgic/classic by making it sepia tones or b/w :)

No need to make *every* concert an interactive demo or a visual treat/extravaganza. Not every performing musician need to be a great raconteur or make every concert an *interactive* whatever-you-call-it.

Added benefit: doesn't require high bandwidth/low latency connectivity to enjoy "just" the "music" online.

munirao2001
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#18 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by munirao2001 »

ramamatya,
If you are highlighting the Senior Citizens plight,with not enough income it is known enough. Are we sensitive to the plight of few hundreds of fellow citizens and musicians who are deprived any kind of income? If one wants to contribute for causes, one finds resource-money and other kinds. Let forumites make it well known.

ramamatya
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#19 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

For a wholesome concert experience, you have to be there. With pandemic and it's fears, that becomes impossible as of now. Virtual concerts may not be appealing and definitely not the wholesome experience audience desire. Base case: music is for the ears. Carnatic radios may take off.

RSR
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#20 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

The advantage of recorded concert ( audio only) is that it can be made available to everyone . It can be archived and preserved for the future. Visuals should be totally avoided as in radio programs , If we use youtube for the purpose, just a single image ( not of the performing artistes) can be shown. Perhaps slides may give information about the song, ragam, composer, link to the lyrics, and such. The concerts should be in ticketed channel. The ticket cost should be very much affordable. Donations can be obtained from the diaspora. The problem then is how to inform about the programs , world-wide.

RSR
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#21 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/ ... 299408.ece
by Sri.Ramabadhran
-----------------------------------
I think, the virtual platform has come here to stay. The writer has given some nice suggestions.
No need to request the organizers for giving a chance. The artistes can work from home. at their own convenience. And reach literally lakhs of listeners all over the world.
Talented youngsters and non-professional-musicians-youngsters can make themselves known to the world widely. Telecast should concentrate on the stage and not on the limited audience.

ramamatya
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#22 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

The 'interaction' by the artist with an unseen audience will be too much of onus on the artist.

Since the writer is retired, his mind is too inventive and in a very idle and average way. What a commonplace article Hindu has doled out ! Hindu is losing it.

RSR
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#23 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

p-22
-----
1) How about so many gems of AIR concerts and DD concerts? Did they depend on audience reactions?

2) Did the Nagaswaram greats of the first few decades of last century playing in temple deity processions ,depend on audience reaction?

3) Are not even International Cricket matches being played in the covid year, without any 'audience ' .

4) Are not vitally important political campaigns as in recent US elections being conducted on-line?

5) Is it not true that 'chamber music' is usually of very high standard as the invitees are themselves experts?

6) Is not the software industry itself adopting this method for very important discussions at the highest level?

Times are changing. Technology is evolving and it will be possible to have such a chamber music as live stream.

Why should we limit the experience of listening to artistes to people who are physically present in the concert hall?

The only thing that may be missed is the 'Canteen ' and 'socializing' .

ramamatya
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#24 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

Artists are not talkers and talkers can never be artists.

CM best left to audio/radio.

ramamatya
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#25 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by ramamatya »

So, apart from singing, artists have to do more to get audience attention? Is dancing ok?

Learn to respect artists, especially CM artists who sing spiritual songs. They are not some clowns/entertainers who have to do something extra to get your attention.

Why is Hindu, which respects CM publishing these kind of articles? This is just one season that really didn't happen and everybody starts giving their advice to artists.

shankarank
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#26 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by shankarank »

https://youtu.be/ZV13W07Kc8M?t=236

Sri VV Sundaram lays out the new reality. Before that timeline he talked about a survey they did. Problems of concert attendees include commute time, non availability of parking and security issues late evening on even treking the parking lot in dark.

Then comes the new world of AI and augmented reality. Take any video and change the ambience to MA. Take an artiste and pair them with - well I will replace his suggestion with mine - lets say Palghat Mani Iyer and/or Pazhani - And the "And" option could be Mridangam/Mridangam or Mridangam/Kanjira. :D

RSR
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#27 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

In continuation of p-23
------------------
How about great playback singers in films? Did they have instant audience reaction, applause/nod and otherwise?
How about legends of Hollywood and Indian films of yore? Even some TV serials?
Artistes can give full rein to their creativity , without the presence of 'rasikas'.
No?

Nick H
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#28 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

Sure, yes. But having a conversation with others is different to talking to one's self.

The artists can do studio recordings, TV, radio, whatever. For concerts, they would rather have an audience. This is not my guess, this is what the artists I have spoken to over the past months have told me.

RSR
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#29 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

p-28
----
Generally, great singers are lost in the melody and song while performing. ,hardly noticing the audience. A compromise solution might be chamber music program getting video-recorded and shared.
This is true of many concerts by Smt.MS. People have mentioned that she seemed to be talking directly to the Deity .-having her own conversation.

Nick H
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#30 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

It's true that some artists can perform an entire concert without even opening their eyes much. Does this mean that the audience means nothing to them? I think not. Don't ask me: ask them.

RSR
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#31 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

@ p-30
Getting inspired by the size of the audience was not the norm in the period of the Trinity. The Trinity did not perform any concerts . SS was always praying and teaching a few. MD was a pilgrim, and most likely his audience was the priests in the temple precincts and some admirers. Thyagaraja just taught his students except towards the end of his life time, a travel to places like Kanchipuram at the invitation of a learned scholar and father of his friend. Even the direct disciples of the Trinity, did not perform for the general public. but to a very knowledgeable select few and patrons. The concert practice seems to have begun only after the second generation of disciples of the Trinity.
Of course, if the concert hall is near empty and even the few present are found chatting and walking out to the canteen , it surely will dampen the enthusiasm of the artiste. But, if the hall is packed , can the artiste make eye-contact with every one in the hall? No. It is just a matter of psychological satisfaction. Chamber music with select audience has no such problem. VeeNa artiste Sambasiva Iyer never performed in stage. Madurai MaNi Iyer is said to have had just a few lsteners in his early years singing in the doorsteps of a temple.
Audience reaction belongs to the days of Drama Troupes and music discourses.
Even today, most Nagaswaram Vidwans attached to temples, aim to offer their best, to the deity with very sparse audience,
This is CM tradition. Classical music performance is music for music's sake. Fame and wealth follow in some cases due to dedication and a bit of luck too.
Anyway, the main topic is about making CM career, a financially viable full-time profession or even avocation. in these days of virtual concerts. Sri.SankarK has cited some instances of successful methods.
The more the artistes reach out to the vast public in the rural areas, instead of depending on the elite, a lasting solution can be found. .'.Little drops...….'.

Nick H
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#32 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by Nick H »

RSR wrote: 13 Jan 2021, 08:46 Getting inspired by the size of the audience
I didn't say anything about size, nor was it a factor in my recent conversations, which concerned the current situation: the difference between an empty hall and any audience at all.

Go and ask a musician or two.

RSR
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#33 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by RSR »

1) On line platform spares the artiste from the agony of seeing a near-empty hall.
2) It gives them International virtual audience.
3) Youngsters can give their best without stage-fear
4) It is most likely to emerge as the only platform in near future.
---------------------------------------
(The trend in software industry is a pointer....work from home.--economy.)…( Even surgery is being done , on-line!)
'Glad that there is a 'conversation!'-'Virtual audience ' can chat among themselves, to their heart's content.
Video of chamber music , meets the needs of all, including veteran rasikas like you.
Better to find a solution for sharing video with a fee.

sankark
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#34 Re: ONLINE PLATFORM

Post by sankark »

Nick H wrote: 13 Jan 2021, 15:48 Go and ask a musician or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzIWn2L8NDs

Here is a musician in her own words - around 10m into the concert after the varNam. This hall allows audience who register ahead and confirms through SMS.

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