Pallavis in rare talams

sandhyashree · Post by **sandhyashree** » 28 Oct 2006, 10:49

Hello everybody!!!!!!!!!!
At the outset, let me introduce myself..........

I am a student of music and since childhood my quest has always been music of a higher order.....In the process. i always wanted to meet Shri Akella mallikarjuna sharma(Akellagaru as we fondly call him).It took several years before i met him at one of his workshops at Hyderabad and since then i have been closely associated with him.Though i dare not say that i am his disciple,i am proud of the fact that i am learning from him and people consider me as his disciple.
Contrary to his image and much to my surprise i found him extremely nice and accommodating.It has been five years and since my first meeting with him, my association with him has been very fruitful.Every session with him has been very educative,thought provoking,motivating and inspiring.
As you all might have realised,his knowledge as a violinist,vocalist and musicologist is amazing.At this juncture i must tell you that he is an extraordinary singer.I always wish i came close to his renditions of ragas with all the subtle nuances that he produces exactly the way he plays on the violin!!!!!!!!!.It is AMAZING and MIND BLOWING.

I have benefitted a lot from his teaching methods andhis book on RAGA ALAAPANA AND SWARAKALPANA. It is a fact that he is the sole authority on TALAPRASTHARA.I have also dared to venture into this subject which is very vast and complex too but it is very interesting. I have also assisted him (though in a small way) in one of his worshops.
In all these years ,i have come to realise that he hasnt been able to put things across in English successfully whch is a common problem since most of us may find it difficult to explain and interpret things in a foreign language.But,that apart he is the one of the best teachers ever!!!!!
Since i have been reading some of your posts on this forum,i wanted to share my experiences with you all. I wanted to tell you all that it would be ideal to meet him personally
and interact so that learning Talaprastara would be easier and a better experience.Here, i would also like to say that i have been using the elecronic tambura that he has designed and i personally feel that my singing has been redefined..........I wish many people attend his lec-dem at the Music Academy,Chennai.
Though there were days when i even dreaded meeting him,:) i have ended up arguing with him over several issues only to expand my knowledge and thinking which only points out to his accommodating nature.
I wish that.those of you interested may make the best out meeting/interacting with him without any apprehensions.Its just that i wanted to say a few things about my association with him.
Wishing you all, the very best!!!!!!!!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Oct 2006, 13:58

Vocalist, it is nice of you to have told me that some of my explanations have helped you in the past, but my ability is to put some of the basic concepts into simple English. My knowledge goes no further than that!

Msakella, If I have the opportunity to meet you in Chennai in December I shall be very pleased. Last December my priority was getting married; this year It is going to be settling in to our new house --- added to which I prefer concerts here out of season! They are less crowded and less expensive

--- but please keep us posted here about any performance or lecture you may give.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 28 Oct 2006, 14:20

sandhyashree, first and foremost, thank you. Though I won't have the opportunity to meet him this December, I do hope to meet him some time, and your message has been another major factor in making me want to.

I too think it would be easier to learn in person, but sadly, that isn't possible for me.

I can only hope that those of us who are overseas etc. may at least, be able to listen to the lecdem, him talking about concepts such as talaprastara, and perhaps him singing. That'd only be possible by audio - if it could be recorded and uploaded by someone willing and able...and if msakella authorizes it...

sandhyashree · Post by **sandhyashree** » 28 Oct 2006, 22:37

Vocalist....
You are most welcome....its nice of you to have responded.I only wanted to share some of my experiences with all of you so that you will have a better understanding of him.What i have written is just a fraction of my experiences......

I can understand your inability to meet him personally since you are living abroad.I am planning to attend the Lec-dem at MA,Chennai. I will definitely record it and will also try to upload a few audio clippings.Though i cant do it on my own,i think he can get it done by one of his disciples(violinist) who is a Software engineer too. I will pass on the clippings that i have so that he can upoad for you...

Will try to do my best........

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 29 Oct 2006, 05:48

Hello! Affectionate brothers and sisters of our forum !!!!!!
I feel extremely sorry to miss all my affectionate brothers and sisters of our forum for nearly one month from today onwards. Let me tell you the fact.
Our ex-Prime Minister, Rajiv Gandhi, in his regime, with a great vision, had established 8 or 9 Zonal Cultural Centres for the development of the Cultural Art forms of our country. Among them, our Karnataka music area comes under two Zonal Cultural Centres of our country and they are 1) South Zone Cultural Centre, Thanjavur and 2) South Central Zone Cultural Centre, Nagpur. Even after my retirement in 1996, our Government of Andhra Pradesh still keeps me active by nominating me as a member of different committees of either of these Centres. Having worked in almost all the Govt. Music Colleges of our State for nearly 35 long years and also acquainted always with small kids I always wish to strive hard in serving the student community efficiently, sincerely, loyally and with dedication until my last breath.
Nowadays, most unfortunately, many of our music teachers have become more selfish, money-minded, inefficient, insincere, un-loyal etc. etc. Many of these teachers are not at all delivering the goods for what they are being paid. By Gods grace even though I am neither wealthy nor poor I am content. So, I am able to serve our music community without expecting any monetary benefit at all. To me this act of our Government nominating me as a member of either of these Cultural Centres has become a blessing in disguise to do something to our kids. Thus, I am always used to put one question or other in each and every meeting of these Centres for the development of our music-aspirants. In this process, previously, once I made them to hold a 5-day workshop on Talaprastara inviting 30 music-teachers from the Universities & Music institutions of Andhra Pradesh, Tamilnadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra States and another 3-day workshop on the Easy, innovative and effective teaching methods in singing Svarakalpana and Ragalapana inviting all the music-teachers of all the 12 Govt. Music Colleges of our State.
In the same manner, in the meeting held at Chennai in April, 2005, I have given proposals that I shall conduct Lecture-demonstrations and workshops on the above mentioned Easy methods in different places for the music aspirants with barest minimum expenditure and without any monetary benefit. Nowadays, people always try to throw away their responsibilities
upon others and, thus, my proposals are conveniently passed on to the Director, Department of Culture, Andhra Pradesh. But, he, without running away from his responsibility and also to avail this opportunity, invited me and entrusted of all the 12 Govt. Music Colleges in our State to propagate these Easy methods among the students community. The results are extremely encouraging in the last academic year and I was again requested to continue this process in this academic year also. Thus, today I shall start my 1-month tour to Guntur, Vizianagaram, Rajahmundry, Kakinada, Tanuku, Bhimavaram, Vijayawada, Nellore, Nizamabad, Warangal, Kurnool and also Bangalore to serve our music community but miss your affectionate company. I can help. I shall be back on 1st Dec and resume. Of course, in the meantime, I shall try to attend our forum and write the needful whenever time permits me but not regularly. Extremely feeling sorry to miss you all, Ever yours, amsharma.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2006, 07:50

May your zeal to teach inspire the teachers and their students. Have a pleasant sojourn in all the places you have mentioned. In December, hope your demo in Chennai is well attended.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 29 Oct 2006, 09:22

Looking forward to read more of your enlightening posts again soon... have a pleasant and successful journey.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 29 Oct 2006, 10:11

On behalf of all of us, thank you again sandhyashree - very kind of you to try do this.

Have a safe and pleasant trip msakella.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 29 Oct 2006, 11:31

msakella gAru,
Please do a video recording for atleast few of the lecdems and workshops. You can decide later if it is sold as commercial or free later as per your choice.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 29 Oct 2006, 17:52

Wishing you a pleasant trip, and good work

Don't forget to post here if and when you are appearing in Chennai

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Nov 2006, 11:13

Ninja
Here is something which may be of interest to you and Others.

o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/vzd3
The Thanam and Pallavi in Shanmukha Priya and Thani by
"Trichy Swamintha Iyer-Lalgudi-Raghu"

o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/ziys
a brief talk after the RTP

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 01 Dec 2006, 20:32

Dear member, Mr.nick H, Thank you. I am planning to start from Hyderabad on 15th evening and arrive at Chennai in the morning on 16th itself to demonstrate the unique Electronic-automatic-tambura in the Music Academy, Chennai in the morning at 9-30 a.m. on 17-12-2006. I am thinking to start back on 18th.
I shall stay with my disciple Chi.Sow.Revathy S. Krishnan, Velachery, Chennai (Ph: 044-22434263, 9381043208 & my cell no.94407 62711). If interested persons contact me on 15th itself I shall try to bring some of the copies of the book 'Indian geniu8s in Talaprastara' to meet and give them the same at Music Academy, Chennai after my Lec-dem on 17th. This is for kind information of all our members.amsharma.

sridharrajagopal · Post by **sridharrajagopal** » 29 Oct 2019, 21:40

Nick H wrote: ↑23 Oct 2006, 11:41
msakella wrote:Dear Mr. nick H, In Indian music the Akshara is used to count the duration of one unit and beat is a sounded manual act of the Tala. All Kriyas are manual actions and are of two kinds, sounded and soundless. Beat is a sounded Kriya and finger counts and waving-hands are soundless Kriyas. In Adi-tala there are 3 Kriyas of sounded beats and 5 Kriyas of soundless finger counts and waving-hands. Not 8 beats at all as you wrote. Of course, language is not a barrier at all to the invisible Fine Art, Music. But, rather than reading, this should be learnt in person from a great Guru. As you wrote, the correct manual action of Talam is a clap, bringing the right palm down onto the upfacing left palm. Strive hard to know the correct version of the things. Wishing you all the best, amsharma.
clap is a sounded kriya. Beat is a unit of a time cycle.

I am no tala vidwan, but I am a native English speaker.

My tiny knowledge comes not from books, but from my guruji.

I have experienced first hand the confusion of learning as a non-Indian-Language speaker, and I have seen the confusion sufferred, even among Tamil speakers, by those learning in a Western environment.

My wish is that this confusion should not be suffered! Some of our carnatic rhythm concepts are hard to grasp, there is no reason that they should be made harder by the fact that translation has been done by non-native English speakers.

Nick, by "Beat", AM Sharma-ji is referring to the act of "Beating" one's thigh (hence a "sounded" manual act, as opposed to the "soundless" acts like finger counts and waving hands). An Akshara corresponds to the Western notion of Beat. Each Tala is made up of Angas (or parts) - Adi Talam has 3 Angas - a Laghu followed by 2 Dhruthams. In Adi Talam, the Laghu has 4 Aksharas, the Dhrutham has 2 Aksharas, for a total of 8 Aksharas (or Western Beats).

Hope that helps somewhat in clarifying the translation of concepts between Indian and Western notations and notions!

I do see you point that it can get very confusing, especially to a person who is not a native speaker of the Indian languages, and even for native speakers, especially as terms have been coopted.

-Sridhar

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Oct 2019, 04:38

sridharrajagopal wrote: ↑29 Oct 2019, 21:40Nick, by "Beat", AM Sharma-ji is referring to the act of "Beating" one's thigh (hence a "sounded" manual act, as opposed to the "soundless" acts like finger counts and waving hands). An Akshara corresponds to the Western notion of Beat. Each Tala is made up of Angas (or parts) - Adi Talam has 3 Angas - a Laghu followed by 2 Dhruthams. In Adi Talam, the Laghu has 4 Aksharas, the Dhrutham has 2 Aksharas, for a total of 8 Aksharas (or Western Beats).

Hope that helps somewhat in clarifying the translation of concepts between Indian and Western notations and notions! I do see you point that it can get very confusing, especially to a person who is not a native speaker of the Indian languages, and even for native speakers, especially as terms have been coopted.

-Sridhar

Goodness! You are quoting a conversation from 13 years ago!

I know very well, and knew then, what msakella said and meant. Whilst I have never failed to acknowledge my respect for his life-time research, I found, and would continue to find, some of his terminology (and his refusal to acknowledge alternative terminologies) confusing and potentially misleading. But I am not ever again going to engage in conversation on those areas here. It was a thankless, hopeless task, and I have left it behind me.

I am not confused about the basics. But hey, thanks for your good intentions, which are appreciated.

sridharrajagopal · Post by **sridharrajagopal** » 30 Oct 2019, 07:54

Hahaha sorry about that! I didn't really check the dates before I responded. I am on a quixotic quest to find out more about Dr. BMK's Mukhi Talas, and came across this thread today while doing so!

I had also clearly not read the entire thread (I did more of that now) before responding, and I apologize for dragging on this terminology discussion beyond the end which you presented later (and which I had clearly failed to read the first time around).

Thanks,
-Sridhar

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Oct 2019, 14:19

No problem!

"Thirteen years ago..." Wow, what a long time the site, and its forebears have been around!

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 08 Nov 2019, 22:42

coolkarni wrote: ↑25 Nov 2006, 11:13 Ninja
Here is something which may be of interest to you and Others.

o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/vzd3
The Thanam and Pallavi in Shanmukha Priya and Thani by
"Trichy Swamintha Iyer-Lalgudi-Raghu"

o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/ziys
a brief talk after the RTP

I realize this is from 16 years ago but if someone has downloaded a copy of the above content or if the same content is available elsewhere on the Internet (the original links are now defunct) could you please share ?

Thanks
Thenpaanan

rasikas.org

Pallavis in rare talams

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