Earliest carnatic music recording?

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
Post Reply
ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

I came across this fascinating site that has the earliest recordings of the human voice:
http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/scott.php

Apparently the earliest recording is from April 9, 1860! It was done as a 'phonautogram'.
And here's a writeup on phonautograph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonautograph

This got me to wonder whether we know which is the earliest Carnatic music recording.
Does anyone know? And is this recording available for us to listen to?
Last edited by ragam-talam on 09 Oct 2010, 19:01, edited 2 times in total.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

The earliest Indian recordings, like those of Gohar Jan and Jan-ki Bai in 1903,
http://thaxi.usc.edu/rmim/sami/R-echoes.txt

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

http://www.mediafire.com/?gyhj5o9prgs9nu0

Nothing like a 78 RPM record or a B/W photograph to take you back by several decades .

And a Track that had Lalgudi Jayaraman flummoxed
http://www.mediafire.com/?bxhmaat33kf3omq

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by MaheshS »

I've read that the Mysore Maharajah once recorded Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer singing Bhairavi without his knowledge. However the recording was destroyed by fire. I am not sure whether it's a myth or it really happened.

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by MaheshS »

mankuthimma wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/?gyhj5o9prgs9nu0

Nothing like a 78 RPM record or a B/W photograph to take you back by several decades .

And a Track that had Lalgudi Jayaraman flummoxed
http://www.mediafire.com/?bxhmaat33kf3omq
W.O.W. The second one with GNB is priceless!!! Listening to his Thodi now. I bet you didn't tell Lalgudi who the singer was, question is, did he identify correctly? Because if it weren't for the MP3 tag, I wouldn't have a clue!

Thank you, thank you, thank you. :clap: :clap: :clap:

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

I forgot about the tag .Ouch.
Isn't it pricesless GNB ? :lol:
I did tell Lalgudi , but he was wavering . The occasion was to find some of the earliest recordings for use in a documentary that had scenes of him ( as a kid ) listen to such records on the Muncipal Corporation Radio speakers and then run home to play the same on the violin.
Quite interestingly , while we were experimenting with another set of Chittoor Subramanya Pillay recordings to tickle his memory , he got stuck into that more and even started humming those Chittoor specials .And so we spent the rest of the evening that way.

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

Both priceless!

So is 1936 the earliest CM recording?
I have heard a Dhannamal veena recording - possibly from around the same period.

The Maha Vaidynatha Iyer recording would surely be much older, if it's still extant.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

Maybe we can take an inventory of the names , find out the year they passed away and work out a possible year of recording ?
Let me see If I can put up a series . Would any one be interested ?

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

Would any one be interested ?
YES!

Lakshman
Posts: 14027
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Lakshman »

I have a 78 rpm record of Miss Gauharjan (one sided with an embossed "Angel" logo on the flip side). I wonder if it is the 1903 recording that mankuthimma mentioned. I will check and report back on the song and raga next week.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

MaheshS wrote:I've read that the Mysore Maharajah once recorded Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer singing Bhairavi without his knowledge. However the recording was destroyed by fire. I am not sure whether it's a myth or it really happened.
I remember reading about it too.

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by uday_shankar »

ragam-talam wrote:I have heard a Dhannamal veena recording - possibly from around the same period.
Yes, there are a couple dozen (I think) Dhanammal pieces floating around. She died in 1938 at the age of 70. These recordings must have been in her last few years.

There's another recording floating around claiming to be that of Kanchipuram Naina Pillai, singing an extensive Shobillu Saptaswara. The style is definitely Chittooresque but the recording quality, pace and length (14 mins!) belies the period. Naina Pillai too died in 1938 or thereabouts. I wish somebody (cool/thimma?) could shed light on the Naina Pillai claim.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

That doubt remains .
Maybe we can check with Tadeppali on 20th Nov ?

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

MT - I listened to the 1936 GNB recording a few times. It's just great!
I wonder if you could upload the other items from this record collection. Thank you!

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

Thimma - I am unable to download and listen to Choppalli Suryanarayana Bhagavathar (first link in post 3)

can you upload this as a music only file please.

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by MaheshS »

shyma-priya - > The file extension isn't right, I just right-clicked and made it open in VLC and it was fine. I am assuming that you are using a Windows machine, just drag and drop the file and it should play. I should mention that I use VLC for just about any media.

I listened to the Ramajyogi by Choppalli Suryanarayana Bhagavathar and the by Semmangudi. Now I know how Khamas evolved in the last few decades!!!

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

MaheshS wrote:shyma-priya - > The file extension isn't right, I just right-clicked and made it open in VLC and it was fine. I am assuming that you are using a Windows machine, just drag and drop the file and it should play. I should mention that I use VLC for just about any media.

I listened to the Ramajyogi by Choppalli Suryanarayana Bhagavathar and the by Semmangudi. Now I know how Khamas evolved in the last few decades!!!
Mahesh I am a Mac user - let me know if there's something I should do.

It downloads as "text" file and does not play.

the second upload ("Records 1936" with a lot of hiss) in post 3 by thimma works. Who is the singer?

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

s-p: I had a similar problem with this file. I resolved it as follows:
- rename the file name with an extension .mp3
- so for e.g. if the file name is currently 'choppalli' just change it to 'choppalli.mp3'

That's all. Now you should be able to play it.
Hope this works.
Last edited by ragam-talam on 12 Oct 2010, 02:19, edited 1 time in total.

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

MaheshS wrote:[http://www.mediafire.com/?gyhj5o9prgs9nu0

Nothing like a 78 RPM record or a B/W photograph to take you back by several decades .

And a Track that had Lalgudi Jayaraman flummoxed
http://www.mediafire.com/?bxhmaat33kf3omq

W.O.W. The second one with GNB is priceless!!! Listening to his Thodi now. I bet you didn't tell Lalgudi who the singer was, question is, did he identify correctly? Because if it weren't for the MP3 tag, I wouldn't have a clue!

Thank you, thank you, thank you. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Which one is GNB - the first is giving me trouble - the second upload sounds like a female singer.

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

ragam-talam wrote:s-p: I had a similar problem with this file. I resolved it as follows:
- rename the file name with an extension .mp3
- so for e.g. if the file name is currently 'choppalli' just change it to 'choppalli.mp3'

That's all. Now you should be able to play it.
Hope this works.
Are you using Mac?

I have a garbled download. Thimma, please upload Choppalli as mp3 file. Thanks.

Lakshman
Posts: 14027
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:52

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Lakshman »


Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4165
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

MaheshS wrote:I've read that the Mysore Maharajah once recorded Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer singing Bhairavi without his knowledge. However the recording was destroyed by fire. I am not sure whether it's a myth or it really happened.
Extracts from the article written for Carnatic Corner by Sri M N Srinivasan, great grandson of Sri Maha Vaidyanatha Sivan.

"RECORDING DESTROYED

"The Mysore Maharaja invited the Sivans to his durbar. There were three such visits. It was customary to wear a coat and a turban while going to the royal presence. Knowing the habits of Maha Vaidyanatha Sivan, the Maharaja ordered a special gown of silk to be stitched and in the turban a special kalki saram was attached. In the concert, while singing Bhairavi raga song "Chintaya Ma", without Sivan's knowldege, the Maharaja managed to record the music on Edison's Phonograph. After the concert was over, the record was played to the Sivans. The Sivans were pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, however, this record got destroyed in the fire outbreak in Jahan Mohan Palace some years ago."

Full text of the article is available at: http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/mvsivan.html
Last edited by Pratyaksham Bala on 12 Oct 2010, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

sp
Please try renaming as .mp3 and listen .That is the simplest solution.
I am working on a series that occupies my attention , in selection and other issues .
I should start before this weekend.
All this , Courtesy Raju Asokan , who spent a fortune locating Lps and converting to mp3 , in chennai a decade ago . And yet made sure that I had a copy of the DVD's before the stuff was shipped out to him.
It is very interesting stuff and I hope to make a good job of the uploads.

vs_manjunath
Posts: 1466
Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 19:37

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vs_manjunath »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: Extracts from the article written for Carnatic Corner by Sri M N Srinivasan, great grandson of Sri Maha Vaidyanatha Sivan.

"RECORDING DESTROYED

"The Mysore Maharaja invited the Sivans to his durbar. There were three such visits. It was customary to wear a coat and a turban while going to the royal presence. Knowing the habits of Maha Vaidyanatha Sivan, the Maharaja ordered a special gown of silk to be stitched and in the turban a special kalki saram was attached. In the concert, while singing Bhairavi raga song "Chintaya Ma", without Sivan's knowldege, the Maharaja managed to record the music on Edison's Phonograph. After the concert was over, the record was played to the Sivans. The Sivans were pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, however, this record got destroyed in the fire outbreak in Jahan Mohan Palace some years ago."[/i]

Full text of the article is available at: http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/mvsivan.html
Thanks for this authentic info.
I have also read this info in a Kannada book on Maha Vaidyanatha Sivan.

vs_manjunath
Posts: 1466
Joined: 29 Sep 2006, 19:37

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vs_manjunath »

Coolji- Can U pl post the dates in which GNB's "Ananda Natesha" & " ThAmadame Swami" both in thodi were sung ??

This gives a comparison of GNB's thodi treatment in 1936 & later years!

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

I guess I'll live without the Choppalli song - renaming does squat - mac still downloads it as textedit file and does not play - I tried with itunes and real player. If there is something else to use or if someone can send by forum email the renamed mp3 file maybe I can listen to it.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

s-p, on windows, I did "open with" and pointed it at VLC media player. It played fine. I then added the .mp3 extension to it and double clicked to play it. That worked OK too.

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

vasanthakokilam wrote:s-p, on windows, I did "open with" and pointed it at VLC media player. It played fine. I then added the .mp3 extension to it and double clicked to play it. That worked OK too.
can you send me the mp3 file - to play on mac? thanks.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

The 1936 recording is a unique one indeed. Thanks Thimma.
mankuthimma wrote:I forgot about the tag .Ouch.
Isn't it pricesless GNB ? :lol:
I did tell Lalgudi , but he was wavering .
You mean Lalgudi was not sure if it is GNB?

It did not sound like GNB .... but then in the early days of recording they really had to sing in high volume into that conical sound capture thingy to get a proper recording, so the voice timbre may have changed. Possibly he sang at this higher pitch those days as well. Using Audacity, I dropped the pitch down by 5 semitones. Then it sounded like the regular GNB pitch we are used to. But my main doubt was in the kalpanaswara section.. That is not quite the GNB style that we hear in later recordings..The pitch reduction did not do much for this portion. I then slowed the tempo down by 12%. Then it was a bit closer but did not quite clinch it. Not that such pitch and tempo reduction techniques are the right ones to use, but I thought I will report my findings.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I took the liberty to reduce the pitch by 5 semi tones for the last song in that 1936 archive Oh Jagadamba..

Now it sounds like the latter day GNB to me.

http://www.mediafire.com/?504m56zqbzs5nje

venkatpv
Posts: 373
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:23

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by venkatpv »

vasanthakokilam wrote:It did not sound like GNB ....
listen to the kambhoji portion of the slokam he sings before Darini telusu (especially from around 11:00 to 11:18) and then listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pmMW3cWswY
that clinched it for me. ;)

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by MaheshS »

shyama-priya wrote:I guess I'll live without the Choppalli song - renaming does squat - mac still downloads it as textedit file and does not play - I tried with itunes and real player. If there is something else to use or if someone can send by forum email the renamed mp3 file maybe I can listen to it.
s-p, I've uploaded the Choppali with the correct extension. Can you see if this one works?

http://uploading.com/files/35315b6f/Choppalli.mp3/

And I use a Mac as well and I had no problems playing it. I recommend VLC rather than iTunes / Real Player. If interested, you can download VLC from the following link.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html

Hope this helps!

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

Can I start in alphabetical Order ?
Do you need one one or two representative tracks per artist - for which you have to depend on my Choices
OR
The available tracks with me for all the artists , in a slow progression , so that you dont have to bother about a choice . :P
And we can discuss , along the way.

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

vs_manjunath wrote:Coolji- Can U pl post the dates in which GNB's "Ananda Natesha" & " ThAmadame Swami" both in thodi were sung ??
This gives a comparison of GNB's thodi treatment in 1936 & later years!
VSM . Unforunately I am not good at these things . I only build webs that trap musical tracks :lol:

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »


smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

Mahesh - Thanks, the link works and will get the VLC. VK already sent me a file via email so thanks to VK too.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by rshankar »

S-P, as a long-time mac user, I would suggest that you remove the extension from the file you download (for the CSP track and others like it), go to your downloads folder and delete the part after the '.' and replace it with 'mp3' - you do not need VLC to play it....

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

MLV sings while Sivaji Ganesan talks.
http://www.mediafire.com/?osv33o9yeac4m72

and MSS sings a duet with Dilip Kumar Roy here
http://www.mediafire.com/?o6prnjxecvgcw6s

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by smala »

rshankar wrote:S-P, as a long-time mac user, I would suggest that you remove the extension from the file you download (for the CSP track and others like it), go to your downloads folder and delete the part after the '.' and replace it with 'mp3' - you do not need VLC to play it....
rshankar, how do you view some downloads that include video - I found that I needed quicktime but in this case below even quicktime doesn't work, gives me this :

The movie “VTS_01_4 3 MANGALAM AND RASIKAS VIDEO SESSION(2).avi” can’t be opened.

Vikramsampath
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 21:11

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Vikramsampath »

The earliest Carnatic music recordings were of people whom we have now sadly forgotten altogether. During the research of my book 'My name is Gauhar Jaan!--the life and times of a musician' these names resurfaced. And as a student of Carnatic music myself, it was sad to know that the prudery of the decades that they lived in, ensured that the memories of these women got totally obliterated-

a) 1904-05 was when the first South Indian 'Expedition' of the Gramophone Company came to Madras. The pioneering women of this era who recorded 3 min clips of Carnatic music are Miss Dhanakoti of Kanchipuram, Miss Salem Papa, Miss Salem Godaveri (a super star apparently), Miss Bangalore Nagaratnam along with of course someone listed as Pandit Vidyanath Iyer of Tanjore, PS Krishna Iyer etc. These were all 7 inch records. the 10 inch records of this era were along with the same names also those of Miss Ammakannu, Govindaswami Dasu's Band of Madras and members of Vidwan Manoranjan Sabha. 12 Inch series were also made during this time.

b) 1906-07 had the next expedition which had Miss Vadammal of Hyderabad, Miss Bhavani of Kanchipuram, Miss Sivakalundo of Madras, Narayanaswami Iyer on Violin and of course the great Salem Godaveri--all 10 Inch. 12 inch were also made.

c) in 1908 in Madras Miss Lokamba, Miss Vanajatchi. Nagaraja Rao (flute), the Tanjore Band were recorded; the next bacth was that of Thayee and Venkamma, Miss Bavani Sami, Sundari and Varalakshmi, Veena Dhanam's daughters, Tiruchendoor Shanmukha vadivoo, Miss ED Sarathambal of Kanchipuram; in Mysore of Miss Dhanakoti and Sister, Miss Parvati Ammal, Prof Imdad Khan's Sitar, Carnatic band of the Maharaja of Mysore, Bidaram Krishnappa, B Rachappa, M Shamannah, Nagamma and sister.

d) The biggest expedition however was that of the most celebrated of them all--Coimbatore Thayi or Palanikunjaram who had a special 'Coimbatore Thayi sessions' between 29 Aug to 2 Sept 1910--all issued with Violet labels which were reserved for celebrity singers like the super star Gauhar Jaan and Janki Bai,Zohra Bai, Malka Jaan of Agra and others.

Apart from these several un-dated records of artists like Mysore Adilakshmi, Palani Vijayalakshmi, Tirugokarnam T N Manickam, Bangalore Thayi, Udupi Lakshmi Bai, TS Rengammal, Mysore Gowri and others exists.

Sadly NONE of these are part of our 'popular' Carnatic music history--which for us begins ONLY on the day Ariyakudi and others got on to stage ;)

Thanks
Vikram

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by MaheshS »

Vikram - where are these recordings? Do you have any that you can share with us?

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by mankuthimma »

Thanks for that lovely update , vikramsampath.
MaheshS .. There are a few names from these lists which I can share .

I have updated the 78 RPM Folder with Gauhar Jan's Bhupali , Nagaraja Rao's Hamsadhwani ( CM ) -1908 and a track titled Tamil Drama
http://www.mediafire.com/?bm1niebzcewz7

Vikramsampath
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 21:11

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Vikramsampath »

Hi Mahesh,

Oh yes i have been working on creating an archive of these early recordings of both North and South Indian classical music and also bringing to public attention the names of these pioneering musicians to whom we owe a lot for coming forward to record in the first place. But like most things in our country our regard for the history of music too seems to be quite narrow !
In fact i am currently in Berlin for 3 months trying to dig out precisely some of these old recordings, as also in places like Vienna, Paris and of course London and its EMI archives.
Will certainly share some of these clips with you all--would need to transport them from my laptop from India to the system here...but will do so for sure..atleast a sample each of all the musicians i listed.

If someone in the forum has biographical information regarding these ppl please do share them...will just make my research a little more simpler :)

Thanks
Vikram

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by ragam-talam »

Great to read your post, Vikram. Your website is quite informative.
The book sounds interesting. Hope it's easily available in the market place.

Btw, the following comment at this youtube page GAUHER JAN FIRST INDIAN RECORD IN KOLKATTA may warrant further investigation:
"First of all, Gauhar Jan was not a Bengali... She was not even the first recording artiste... The first recording artistes were Sashimukhi and Phanibala... The first recording was made in 1902... Gauhar Jan too made reocrdings in 1902 but she was not the first one to record..."

Vikramsampath
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 21:11

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Vikramsampath »

Thanks Ragam Talam ! Have faced this query several times.
I dont know how youtube tags its videos...but nonetheless i have heard this argument that Gauhar was not the first indian etc .
What she certainly was, was the FIRST INDIAN CLASSICAL MUSICIAN to be recorded and whose records were commerically made available.
Sasi Mukhi and Phani bala (and Saila Bai) who preceded Gauhar in recording were nautch girls whom Gaisberg, the recording expert mentions (the first two) as "nautch girls with miserable voices" !
The point is these were not commercial recordings at all and more so as auditions to test the recording equipment--gauhar being the 'price-catch'.
And well, one is really not concerned whether Gauhar Jaan was Bengali or not right? She was not even Indian by origin and was an Armenian Christian with a British grandfather, born Angelina Yeoward but converted to Islam under difficult circumstances.
We can quibble about chronology of the first Indian voice to be etched etc...in which case even Sashi Mukhi and Phani Bala were NOT the first...in fact the first Indian recordings were not even taken in India but in London sometime in 1898. there were 47 recordings of Captain Bholanath, Dr Harnaamdas and Ahmed of recitations in Indian languages, gurumukhi verses etc..but u wouldnt call these "recordings" of music., would u? Anyway the gramophone company in those days was least interested in the musical content they recorded but were putting together an ethonological collection of voices from diff parts of the world.
Last edited by Vikramsampath on 15 Oct 2010, 02:37, edited 1 time in total.

Vikramsampath
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 21:11

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Vikramsampath »

Oh yeah..forgot to answer ur query Ragm-Talam----yes i think the book is quite easily available in the market. Else, the online link is always there :D
http://www.vikramsampath.com/gauhar_buy.html

Thanks
Vikram

Vikramsampath
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 21:11

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Vikramsampath »

Please find below the link for the clips of Salem Godaveri, Bangalore Thayi, Bangalore Nagaratnamma and part 1 of Coimbatore Thayi's Viriboni Varnam. these have all been ripped from original 78 rpm's and digitized...A few other clips which i could share only when i am back in India clearly show that Carnatic music had a very different character in the early 20th Century. Reason could be the harmonium and tabla accompaniments which made the renditions less gamaka and brigha driven as we find today!! :D
some of the incidental noise in the clips is undesirable no doubt, but sometimes becomes very tough to eliminate (or atleast i have found so...may be someone here can do better on that front)

http://www.mediafire.com/?1jl77l6lak7qg

Link below has the clips of a few Hindustani musicians- my heroine Gauhar Jaan's evergreen dadra in Raga Ghara 'Aan Baan Jiya mein laagi' and those of Zohra Bai, Malka Jaan Agrewali and Janki Bai of Allahabad (also called Chappan Churi as she had 56 attacks with a knife on her face by a disgruntled lover!!!) :D Please notice the annoucnements at the end of the clip by each of these women which as many of you would know was necessary as all these are pre-1908 recordings and would be sent for pressing and manufacture to Hanover in Germany and not in India. The technicians there would listen to the annoucements and then identify the record, put labels and send it back to India for sales! After 1908, Calcutta had its own record manufacture plant at Sealdah and so annoucements began to disappear.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ia8x68ncpgmii

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by rshankar »

Vikram - thank you for your detailed history and these clips - they are witnesses to more than just the changes in the practice of CM - they are witnesses to social traditions. Best wishes on your quest in Berlin...
A question though - these 'nautch girls' as they were so dismissively called by the recording engineers, weren't they in reality the custodians of art (classical for the most part) and culture? As I understand it, many of the princes and men from noble families of yesteryear were trained by these women in 'zarAfat' and 'tehzIb'!

Sreeni Rajarao
Posts: 1284
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 08:19

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Sreeni Rajarao »

Vikram,
Thanks for the fascinating chronicles!
In posting # 40, you mention that Vidwan B Rachappa had recorded in 1908. I am not sure about his exact time frame but I think he would have been too young to have recorded in 1908, unless he was very close in age to his Guru Bidaram Krishnappa (1866 - 1931), which I doubt.

Kulkarni Sir,
This thread is made for generous people like you and greedy people like me!
I mean, Thank you!
Sreeni Rajarao

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4165
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: Earliest carnatic music recording?

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Vikram:

Great!
Your admirable efforts bring out the earliest recordings of CM including those of Miss Bangalore Nagaratnam -- Bengaluru Nagarathnamma, the doyen of CM who constructed Sri Thyagaraja Memorial at Thiruvaiyaru in 1920.

http://www.kamat.com/jyotsna/blog/bnr.jpg

Post Reply