Good looking Carnatic Musicians-your choice?

[coolkarni]

vk
What you are referring to here -BTW- came to be known as the Pygmalion effect.It was the idea behind a very thought provoking experiment in USA which ultimately proved that Students Improve their grades based on the way they are treated by their guides/teachers.this project took a lot of flak later because it was unethical in the sense that it toyed-harmfully- with the performances of many students (Good students started faring poorer when they progressively got (concocted) lower grades.
I am speaking from memories of a full fledged management training program based on this theme.
further googling may give more details.

a classic case of life imitating art..

[vasanthakokilam]

Indeed Kji. That little conversation is quite powerful and the crux of the message of the storyline, isn't it?. Bernard Shaw gave an old Greek myth a more contemporary interpretation. We are all Pygmalions of someone to some degree or the other and vice versa.

[Nick H]

Your typo gives a curious change of nationality to Bernard Shaw!

Your earlier post sums up all the wisdom of the story: the difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated. ... ... ... ....

Cool, I hadn't heard of that experiment, and I am no expert on the field of human rights abuse, but I know that far worse things have been done to people in the name of research.

Perhaps I had better take my flower girls to the Secular subjects... thread. Or perhaps gobilalitha and I must start our own specific thread! Arrasi must please come and compose for us!

Excuse me: I am a very week man in the face of a pretty smile --- but I make no difference between a smile from the concert stage, a fellow rasika, or the street market.

[rshankar]

But didn't Pygmalion also show that both Col Pickering and Prof Higgins were not discriminatory in their manners? While the colonel treated flower girls like duchess', Prof Higgins treated duchess' like flower girls - they did not have differential manners or a differntial set of values based on who they were interacting with. It is that I find abhorent - the Professor Higgins' of this world are much easier to deal with and understand.

[arasi]

Ah, class and caste systems! Thank goodness, we have music which rises above all that and if anything, should bind us all.
Nick (or Nikhil, to match the indianization of a fellow- brit's name--oh dear! I do not want those from Erin protesting now).
The song was not my concoction. It was there in the movie. Gemini's Rajee en kaNmaNi it was called, starring T.R. Ramachandran and Sriranjani Jr. Yes, junior! To tell her from another Sriranjani who did not make it, but the junior status stayed !

[vasanthakokilam]

Your typo gives a curious change of nationality to Bernard Shaw!

Yes indeed. Fixed now ( from Shah to Shaw )

Ravi: Quite true about what you say. Consistency of behavior of one way or the other is helpful enormously. In fact the Pygmalion effect is strong if the 'treatment' is consistent.

We are all a product of such external 'expectations' and ''treatments' and we in turn shape others. This all happens not in the forefront of our consciousness. 'Culture' as we all have come to understand is an emergent property of such interactions but then over time, we allow ourselves to be shaped by the 'expectations' of the culture itself.

[vaibhavam]

its time we peep into the ocean of music rather than wander in the shores of worldly beauty ...!

what was the beauty quotient of all time greats like T.R.MAHALINGAM [MALI] or T.N.RAJARATHINAM ????
tHEIR THRONES ARE STILL LEFT UNOCCUPIED ...

thats beauty ...of higher order where facial beauty , complexion and features fail to conquer and contribute...

only the soulful music of divine nature captivates.....

[thathwamasi]

well.. Mali's eyes are as sharp as it can when he was 24. very deep looks. TNR was known for his looks I guess, for he being a movie star as well.

[ratanabhinav]

Females -
Smt R Vedavalli when she was young ( elegant even now ! )
Charumathi Raghuraman
Sumitra Vasudev ( especially when younger )
Arthi Kumar from carnatic music idol USA .

Men -
Sandeep Narayan
Aditya Prakash

[Sachi_R]

Wow. Didn't know that there is such a thread!
I find the vast majority of Carnatic musicians beautiful - through their music!

Aditya Prakash is my nephew

[sureshvv]

Sumitra Vasudev ( especially when younger )

Proverbial "Greek Goddess" look. Seemed as if she just stepped out of the pages of an epic for a concert. Very intense. Hardly ever smiled.

D.B.Ashwin is developing a nice young mama look

PS: Just discovered this thread myself. Thanks(?) to @ratanabhinav

[Vipanchi]

Amongst the younger crop - Vishal Sapuram has an endearing shyness, and Sriranjani Santhanagopalan has a disarming smile!

[SrinathK]

The best looker among male musicans of all time was GNB - the prince of 'em all.

[Nick H]

I think I posted on this thread years ago. Now I am too well known and would be embarrassed to do so!

I can mention that it was my wife who asked who the very beautiful young woman was, among those I had been talking to at a function, and I immediately replied, "That would be Dharini, but never mind her looks, listen to her voice!" I can mention it because I told her the same story the other day, and she was pleased.

Why does Carnatic music need to be sung with a grimace? Award for smiling singer goes to Vasudah Ravi.

Smt. Suguna V. Looks very serious on the stage, which makes her occasional brief brilliant smiles all the more magical.

Sumithra smiles quite a lot, especially when on stage with her guru. Off-stage, her eyes are always smiling. Ratipriya always has a happy look. Their guru, of course, has a wonderful smile.

I'm sure there are many great smiles I have neglected, and my bias is as obvious in this post as in many others.

[ratanabhinav]

Their guru, of course, has a wonderful smile.

Yes . One of the most wonderful smiles !
https://youtu.be/JFe5ANC6cAM
Look at 0:59

[ratanabhinav]

Sumitra Vasudev ( especially when younger )

Proverbial "Greek Goddess" look. Seemed as if she just stepped out of the pages of an epic for a concert. Very intense. Hardly ever smiled.

PS: Just discovered this thread myself. Thanks(?) to @ratanabhinav

'Very intense , hardly ever smiled '.
https://youtu.be/X7bo6Mr5TZk
Yes . Seems like it .

[sowmyamohan2005]

Men: Ramakrishnan Murthy, sumesh Narayanan, Sandeep Narayan

Women: Charumathy Raghuraman, Ranjani of Ranjani Gayatri.

[RSR]

N.C.VASAMTHAKOKILAM, M.S.SUBBULAKSHMI AND D.K.PATTAMMAL ( in 1950)
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanth ... he-trinity
==========================================
and MADURAI MANI IYER

[isramesh]

Never knew that such a thread existed. Speaking of smiling one couldn't miss BMK, who would be always smiling whatever he might be singing. Of course some didn't like it. I remember someone commenting in YouTube that he should not be smiling while singing nagumomu. Long ago there was a heated argument in a forum on his smile between a famous critic and one of his staunch fans.

[sureshvv]

'Very intense , hardly ever smiled '.
https://youtu.be/X7bo6Mr5TZk
Yes . Seems like it .

This is much more recent. I am talking of solo concerts from 2002.

[RSR]

This forum is supposed to discuss classical carnatic music and definitely not the 'looks' of artistes, especially lady artistes, that too living artistes.
In very bad taste!
Even 'compliments' to the looks is unacceptable, leave alone, adverse comments on looks.
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The thread , should be either removed or atleast, moved to the lounge.

[RasikasModerator2]

We do not find anyone threatened, demeaned or harassed by this thread. Nor has any post crossed acceptable boundaries. We can't really compare this to the uncivil threads we have had to close in recent months when things began to rage out of control - no way.

We also do not forsee anyone suddenly pulling a shock metoo on us with this either, but our eyes are open and watching vigilantly.

So no removing.

But yes, this one is definitely going to the lounge someday. However we don't have any intentions of moving it just yet as there's some interest in this thread.

[arasi]

This thread has come out of its dormancy after about a dozen years (a record for revivals?) and still seems to be of interest to some! Reason? Just as we don't like to listen to singers with their eyes closed all the time, we don't choose to listen to a concert with our eyes closed all the time! Yes, certain mannerisms do amuse at times, but music also has its finer visual factors in a concert.
Above all, this so called beauty, when the music is heart-felt, is that of music itself--not of the musician. When It's appealing, it makes the performer look beautiful/handsome. Though a serious looking person, that smile of Vedavalli is born out of the love she has for what she's singing and is reflected in the face. Charming young ones when they radiate their singing/playing pleasure in a smile, no wonder, we are charmed...
Not thinking of the apsaras and Adonis here

[thanjavooran]

In earler days Vidwan. T P Kailasam vocalist used to be smart. Subbudu mentioned once.
Thanjavooran
04 01 2019

[ratanabhinav]

This forum is supposed to discuss classical carnatic music and definitely not the 'looks' of artistes, especially lady artistes, that too living artistes.
In very bad taste!
Even 'compliments' to the looks is unacceptable, leave alone, adverse comments on looks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thread , should be either removed or atleast, moved to the lounge.

Oh come on , what's wrong in admiring looks . People are people , whether musicians or others .

[SrinathK]

I remember Kalki's expression for a GNB concert and his accompanists which IIRC went like "...mooNu maNigalum oru mAnicckamum". (I think it was GNB, Palakkad Mani Iyer, Pazhani Subramania Pillai and Rajamanickam Pillai that day???).

Lalgudi Jayaraman too was a handsome man in his mid 20s to late 40s. It was GNB who told him to go for a modern look.

Well it's no secret that musicians do spend a lot of time grooming for the stage as much as they do for their music, right down to their hairstyles, and it's no secret that the rasikas all talk about it - anyone who says otherwise is definitely lying . The same for actors and sportstars as well - one reason why they are so admired is because of their style.

And that is good. Because the alternative is to come to the stage looking like an average teenager in a hostel who just got out of bed. Yikes!!!

Nevertheless, drifting off the topic, RSR mama's statement, as well that jibe at metoo and as the stuff that's happening in more 'developed' (coughs) societies -- kind of makes me wonder if the cycle of the Conservative-Liberal pendulum really does exist after all, and for a reason (hint : the human mind is insanely destructive ).

[arasi]

Yes, and an old hindi film song comes to mind: zamAnE kA dastUr hai E purAnA, miTHAkar banAnA, banAkar miTHAnA...

[VK RAMAN]

Beauty matters in Musicians?

[RSR]

Srinath-> If I remember right, Kalki commented that all the flowers in Mylapore flower shops used to be sold out on the days in which Mr.Handsome BA(Hons) 's concert was scheduled.. ( not for garlanding him.. but for you know who, hair style buns ) ..
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Kindly read my post carefully. We are all for chaste and orthodox CM. and recently in this forum there have been critical comments on artistes , breaking time-honoured traditions in carnatic music. in the garb of introducing novelty. Rightly so.,
It applies to dress code and stage presence as well. and audience behaviour too
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What about Radio programmes of the (g)olden decades? We 'listened to the music only ' ---without being distracted by anything else. Even in temple concerts, it was not possible to see the singer much. closely The visual craze is a recent phenomenon of the last two decades perhaps. due to TV. It is not a good development.
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Let me reiterate that commenting about the looks and dress and mannerisms of lady (living) artistes is not decorous. On Gents, perhaps may be allowed. The venerable Madurai Mani Iyer, the strict Gandhian idealist that he was, always was simply attired radiating an aura of dignity and in my eyes, looked grander than the scented and ornamental grandees.
I prefer to be referred to simply as RSR ( no mama pl)

[Nick H]

I was able to congratulate a mridangist, recently, on having married the prettiest young violinist in town. Very happy for them both.

[ganesh_mourthy]

NIck .. who was that ? Spill the bean.

By the by, there is nothing wrong in admiring beauty. We are not talking about titillating and sensuous ones here. We are talking about the pleasantness and presentable ones. Live Cutchery is a visual form apart from the presentation. Humanly, it is not possible to escape the charm and charisma a person radiates and it enhances the music. well dressed is a requisite. And MMI simple looks is a style by itself. If he is coming with a clean ironed dothi and shirt, well he wants to look that way. If you go to an ashram and see things simple yet pleasing to the eyes , like white color everywhere, nicely arranged flowers , clean pleasing clothes .. .it is all about pleasing the senses and it is nothing but beauty. Ah philosophical me.

[RSR]

............. Just as we don't like to listen to singers with their eyes closed all the time, we don't choose to listen to a concert with our eyes closed all the time!

The link here may be of interest to people who knew Chitti.. In those days, Radio was our only way to listen to great music.

https://www.thehindu.com/features/frida ... 715767.ece

[Nick H]

NIck .. who was that ? Spill the bean.

OK OK... marriage is a thing of public knowledge, so why not....

Praveen Kumar and Shreya Devnath. They will make a great and talented team, I am sure. And, as our looks are simply a matter of genetics, I'm sure their children will be good-looking and may feature in this very thread in a couple of decades! Just as they may be praised for their music in other threads. I don't know either of them beyond words of post-concert praise, I wasn't there... but it is one of those small-world things that I heard of their coming marriage whilst I was watching her concert in London, from a friend in Chennai.

Yes, beauty is an accident of our genes. But that doesn't mean that it cannot be a happy accident to be admired. And, yes: the inner beauty of a person who has it is no accident, and is a greater thing indeed. A lady from another part of the country, with neither interest nor feeling for carnatic music, on seeing my photo of a certain elder musician, immediately exclaimed, "She is so beautiful!" Gut reaction/recognition.

[vsn69]

When you go that for back one has to consider Pushpavanam himself who was beauty personified (I have not seen him !) as also 'poochi' who used to set the mood through his famous fragrance!

Madurai Pushpavanam was a very handsome, well dressed man indeed.

[prabuddha]

Dr N Rajam is very fetching, no doubt. She always had lovely tresses, something inherited by her daughters and grand daughter too.

It's possible that some may say she's a Hindustani artiste but she does come of a most distinguished CM family.

[Ananthakrishna]

I personally don't see anything wrong in admiring the beauty of a musician's bearing and looks as well as their music. This is not a forum for just serious arguments about the music that we all love and cherish, but also for some light banter and fun discussions like this. We are not discussing anything improper and unacceptable, and I hope forumites and artistes who see their names here take it in the appropriate vein!

Every musician mentioned here does indeed have great looks, that complement their excellent musical skills.

Dr. Sripada Pinakapani, in his young days as a weighlifter, wrestler and doctor in Kurnool, was really handsome. Had a great physique and also was (and still is) a fine example for how a good fitness regimen helps you in the long run.
You can see a picture of him in his youth here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4tnsAebmNk (1:04:09)

[shreyas]

Agreed.

[HarishankarK]

Beauty matters in Musicians?

It is always a plus if one has the good looks combined with talent. 'A thing of beauty is....'

[HarishankarK]

Ms Amrutha Venkatesh - her personality, stage demeanour, camaraderie with artistes on stage, her voice, interaction with artistes on stage, interaction/connect with audience and her music - everything each one of these aspects is elegance personified.

[hnbhagavan]

Lalgudi Jayaraman very dignified and presented well on stage is sadly missing from the postings.
Similarly MSG very smiling face in accompaniment or Solo
Lalgudi GJR Krishnan and Vijayalakshmi

[shreyas]

Going solely by appearance here - since the thread does not seem to presuppose any 'dignified' replies

Men - Young Pinakapani garu, GNB, 2000s TMK, Malladi brothers and Unnikrishnan, Embar Kannan, young KVN, Sumesh Narayanan
Women - Young MLV and MSS, Akkarai Subhalakshmi, Bhargavi Venkatram, Young Bombay Jayashri, Charumathi Raghuraman, Shreya Devnath

I don't mean to offend anyone here, just an attempt to revive this discussion in the light vein it was probably created. While I don't think looks have any relation with the quality of music, there is definitely a premium on appearance in whatever industry one chooses, so there's no harm in stating it.

[CRama]

Chittibabu, Madurai T.N.Seshagopalan

[vsn69]

Going solely by appearance here - since the thread does not seem to presuppose any 'dignified' replies

Men - Young Pinakapani garu, GNB, 2000s TMK, Malladi brothers and Unnikrishnan, Embar Kannan, young KVN, Sumesh Narayanan
Women - Young MLV and MSS, Akkarai Subhalakshmi, Bhargavi Venkatram, Young Bombay Jayashri, Charumathi Raghuraman, Shreya Devnath

I don't mean to offend anyone here, just an attempt to revive this discussion in the light vein it was probably created. While I don't think looks have any relation with the quality of music, there is definitely a premium on appearance in whatever industry one chooses, so there's no harm in stating it.

You missed a very beautiful Smt Rajam Pushpavanam
viewtopic.php?p=323469#p323469
See her picture in that thread...

[Manian]

It is interesting that people like good looks. Genetically if both sides of the face (nature makes in two parts and joins them later in the womb), it is symmetrical and adds a beauty. But in general two sides will differ slightly. In general, what the research as shown is that people should wear light pastel colored shirts. Men should use vertical lined pastel colored shirt to show them tall if they are heavy and the lines across if they are slim. This appearance make people to trust them whether they are trust worth or not. That is why uniforms for Police, Army, doctors etc., are designed to create a trust. For the females, it is again the light pastel colors with small flowers if the person is heavy set and big flowers if the person is slim. But this dress perception neither taught or understood by us. An Indian professor told me that when he taught first time in the USA, he was dressed in loose dark colored shirt and a jean.
He got an annual evaluation of 4.7 out of 5 where 5 is the highest rating. Then, he was told by the HD (Chairperson there) to read the student's comment – a wonderful teacher but shabby dressed!. We need role models!. Sp, he got $1000/- as an award and then he bought two nice suits and matching shirt and ties. The story is a a true one. Out lady singers wear Kanchivaram glittering Silk saris instead of nice Cotton saris(there are recent exceptions), heavy jewelry and makeup. While they have a right and freedom to display their assets, but they should also create that the audience trust them. When look at Sanjay Subramniam or Chikkil Gurrucharan, they are very simple and elegantly dressed. Chikkil needs to change his ddark colored shirts. But both make you to concentrate on their music and they mesmerize. All right, do the rasikas have the right to expect changes. The answer is , that even if the Dosai is nice, it needs to be presented nicely, other wise it will be ? The artist should make the listeners to focus on their music and not on their dresses and jewels which should be reserved for only parties or marriage visits. But it is also true that rasikas can not dictate, but can only hope. They can close their eyes and just listen. (Please note that this is not to show off, rather sharing what I have read and is using in my own life).