Carnatic Matrimonial Music

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:03

Meena,
deivayAnai = dEvasEnA (as in vaLLI dEvasEnApatE)
deivayAnai = kunjari = devakunjari (in nAda bindu kalAdI namO namO, muruga is refered to as 'dEvakunjari bAgA')

meena · Post by **meena** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:07

thanks shankar/cml

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 01 Mar 2007, 06:13

When I first scanned the title of this thread and saw the word "matrimonial", I though someone was posting a matrimonial ad on rasikas.org

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 09:41

Mohan,
I was surprised too. Turned out to be a request for marriage songs.

Ravi, I wonder if ArunAchalak kavi was inspired by Kamban who sings about sItai in kOlam kAN paDalam, even before the wedding scene:

ponnin oLi, pUvin veRi, sAndu podi sIdam,
minnin nizhal annavaL than mEni oLi mAna,
annamum arambaiyarum, Aramizhdum nANa,
mannavai irunda maNI mandapam aDiandAL. verse 1144

With her glowing like gold, giddy as the scent of flowers, the coolness of sandal wood, the sparkle of lightening, putting to shame the swan (in her movement), the celestial maidens and the very nectar of gods, she entered the gem laden canopy in the king's court.

valliyai uyirththa nila mangai, ivaL pAdam, melliya uRaikkum ena anji, veLi engum,
pallava malarth thogai parappinaL ena, than nallaNi maNich chuDar thavazhndiDa naDandAL. verse 1140

Mother earth, fearing that her beautiful, (flowering vine-like) daughter's delicate feet would get hurt, spread an abundance of soft newly sprouted leaves and fresh flowers where her daughter treaded, with the gems in her jewelry sparkling.
Such an elegant scene set for sItai whose feet soon would traverse the floor of wild forests!

This was one of the songs in V.V.Sadagopan's all kamba rAmAyaNam concert in Chennai for kambar vizhA--circa 1950? He tuned about a dozen songs for that concert--all scholars and literati in attendance in Rajaji Hall, Rajaji himself presiding!

CML,
As for the Unjal songs I sing at weddings, they are custom made--describing and blessing that particular bride or groom I know!

Dhevathai · Post by **Dhevathai** » 01 Mar 2007, 11:51

Thank you all for the options!

It's interesting how the theme of marriage brings up endless compositions referring to SIthai.

From my limited knowledge of the lives of the Saivite saints, I believe that Lord Siva played a great role in the marriage of Sundaramoorthy Swamigal. Does anyone know of any compositions related to this particular marriage.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:00

Thank you all for the options!

Now when and where does the Wedding take place ?
Rasikaorgites would love to get invited !!

Dhevathai · Post by **Dhevathai** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:07

Jumping to conclusions?

Just trying to broaden my very limited knowledge. I rarely get the opportunity to witness the wedding of musicians, which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:26

which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding

For My own marriage , I selected Carnatic Music clips for each and every stage and Worked with the Cd maker at the Mixing stage.
This was not based on the above mentioned practices of any rituals , but by the feel of the music- Like a Cine composer does.

To give it some degree of authenticity I had the privilege of taking help from a Neighbour of mine (Sister of TRS) ,who inserted the clips from her vast knowledge of Music .
I Loved her selections, especially when she chose the song Mohana Rama in a sequence where I appeared prominently !

And I say that because In my marriage Video, everyone except me appeared prominently..

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:36

coolkarni wrote:And I say that because In my marriage Video, everyone except me appeared prominently..

That sounds quite familiar!

MBK · Post by **MBK** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:48

Dhevathai wrote:... the wedding of musicians, which, unfortunately, is the only time carnatic music is demonstrated at a wedding.

....Is not quite true....
Many non-musicians & their families have opted for a kutcheri at their weddings, Birthdays, Christening Ceremonies etc.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 01 Mar 2007, 13:56

i for one, dont subscribe to the concept of kalyana concerts. i feel its a insult to the art to call a person and ask him/her to sing/play for 3 hours when there will 2 tooth-less old men sitting with their non-working hearing aids and 14 kids running hither and thither and everybody coming in, queueing up to the stage, queueing up to the dinner hall, queueing up to the dinner table, queueing up to leave...

I am going to definitely forbid arranging a concert during my wedding (if and when it happens...)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Mar 2007, 14:26

rbharath wrote:i for one, dont subscribe to the concept of kalyana concerts. i feel its a insult to the art to call a person and ask him/her to sing/play for 3 hours when there will 2 tooth-less old men sitting with their non-working hearing aids and 14 kids running hither and thither and everybody coming in, queueing up to the stage, queueing up to the dinner hall, queueing up to the dinner table, queueing up to leave...

But only in kalyAna concerts , the artists earn their maximum remuneration, unlike sabhas and recordings which dont give them much. While it may mean disrespect for many, it ensures their livelihood is certainly taken care better.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 16:15

bharath and rajesh,
There is truth in both your statements. To have, or not to to have a concert is the question . In our family, no celebration is complete without a concert. Our son got married in London, and we wanted to celebrate the event in India with music. We chose an auditorium which spelt out conert hall which had enough room outside for non-listeners to sit and chat. There was pin drop silence in the hall, and Mysore Nagaraj and Manjunath gave a beautiful performance for about three hundred people. Manjunath said they would play until the couple's anniversary --with such an audience! We lucked out with the hall--its sound system and the way it looked like a proper auditorium.
Bharath, if and when you marry

I am sure you can wing it too, with proper planning and inviting your musically inclined friends (fishing for an invitation?). My son and daughter-in-law sat in the front row from beginning to the end of the concert, and met the guests only after the two and a half hour concert! Can be done. It would be a statement against the inane social gesture of 'staging' a reception, with canned music in the background with all the chattering. There are problems to overcome. Unlike earlier times when people visited each other often, it is only at weddings that clans meet. Silence in a gathering like that is impossible.
Still, whatever the means, I am sure there is a way for rasikas to celebrate their weddings with some music.You can have a weekend concert soon after the wedding in a simple concert friendly hall, no frills, just music and some refreshment for your musically inclined friends and family.
Just an idea to mull over at a juncture when keeping up with the Jones is taking over our celebrations.and robbing them of truly cultural expressions.

Rajesh,
Yes. I hear that popular musicians ask for an exhorbitant fee. We could turn things around by making musicians WANT to perform at weddings, as with chamber music, just for a good audience and a reasonable remuneration...

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 01 Mar 2007, 17:09

Why restrict this to marriages only. Why not upanayanam, shashtyabdapoorthi, shatabhishekam etc. (Or do we have these already?)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:55

arasi wrote:Ravi, I wonder if ArunAchalak kavi was inspired by Kamban who sings about sItai in kOlam kAN paDalam, even before the wedding scene:

ponnin oLi, pUvin veRi, sAndu podi sIdam,
minnin nizhal annavaL than mEni oLi mAna,
annamum arambaiyarum, Aramizhdum nANa,
mannavai irunda maNI mandapam aDiandAL. verse 1144

With her glowing like gold, giddy as the scent of flowers, the coolness of sandal wood, the sparkle of lightening, putting to shame the swan (in her movement), the celestial maidens and the very nectar of gods, she entered the gem laden canopy in the king's court.

valliyai uyirththa nila mangai, ivaL pAdam, melliya uRaikkum ena anji, veLi engum,
pallava malarth thogai parappinaL ena, than nallaNi maNich chuDar thavazhndiDa naDandAL. verse 1140

Mother earth, fearing that her beautiful, (flowering vine-like) daughter's delicate feet would get hurt, spread an abundance of soft newly sprouted leaves and fresh flowers where her daughter treaded, with the gems in her jewelry sparkling.
Such an elegant scene set for sItai whose feet soon would traverse the floor of wild forests!

This was one of the songs in V.V.Sadagopan's all kamba rAmAyaNam concert in Chennai for kambar vizhA--circa 1950? He tuned about a dozen songs for that concert--all scholars and literati in attendance in Rajaji Hall, Rajaji himself presiding!

Thanks Arasi for those lovely verses. It is easy to forget from these descriptions of bedazzling beauty that the princess in quuestion was just 8 years old. AK was certainly inspired by Kamban - he uses the same visual imagery, including references to 'bhUmiAgiya tan tAi'..as sItA walks in.....

Arun,
While references to both of Murugan's consorts may be rare in wedding songs, there is certainly one which refers to 'SaSi vadana rukmiNi satyabhAma lOlA' - so, the topic per-se doesn't appear taboo.

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:56

arunk wrote:i wonder if there are any Unjal, nalangu type of songs with murugan and one of his consorts

Ones which refer to both consorts may not be a good idea at a wedding !

Arun

Guruji Sri Raghavan has formatted "Valli Kalyanam" by selecting relevant lines from various tiruppugazhs to cover all the imoprtant rituals.

While references to both of Murugan's consorts may be rare in wedding songs, there is certainly one which refers to 'SaSi vadana rukmiNi satyabhAma lOlA' - so, the topic per-se doesn't appear taboo.

Why should we understand the concept of two wives in a wordly way? Murugan is GyAna Shakti, Valli is His ichchA ShaktI and Devayanai is His kriyA shakti

Devayanai was a prize He won (if I can put it that way) from Indra when He subduded the demon SUrapadman. She represents His moving force, His kinetic power.

Valli, on the other hand, pined and waited for Him to come and take her. She is considered as Lakshmi's daughter - an amsha of Lakshmi herself. (That is why Vishnu is referred to as Murugan's father-in- law as well as his uncle) And like Sita she too was "found" by the forest chief Nambirajan. Valli represents the human soul- the jeevatma yearning to be united with the parmatma.

Nothing wrong with singing these songs in a wedding- if we understand the true meaning.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:57

jayaram wrote:Why restrict this to marriages only. Why not upanayanam, shashtyabdapoorthi, shatabhishekam etc. (Or do we have these already?)

vazhaipazhattil Usi?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:04

Once when asked about singing in marriage concerts a famous artist said : "Every day I practice for about 2 hrs in my house. If some one is willing to pay me to do that , along with accompaniments, why not"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:28

Coming to think of it, haven't they been a long standing tradition, wedding concerts--like temple concerts? Patrons of music--both the initiated and the uninitiated--have invited musicians to perform at their family weddings. The wealthier and (or) more musically minded they were, the more the number of concerts. As far as I know, S.S.Vasan, the De Mille of south indian cinema and publisher of tamizh nAdu's then most popular magazine, Ananda vikatan, celebrated his daughter's wedding on a grand scale. The number of musicians and dancers who performed for the event is mind boggling! T.N.Rajaratnam was not the only nadaswara vidwan--he alone performed for five hours! I cannot think of a single famous artiste who did not sing or dance during the four day wedding! Not only did I hear and see hours of music and dance--I spotted the rest of the stars in the audience. The scene was like nothing else I have seen in my entire life. It seemed as though the spotlight was not on the bride and groom, but on those who were exponents in the performing arts. I thought I was let loose in wonderland--a mere child, taking it all in, not understanding the full impact of it, but being exhilarated, none the less...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:45

Shankar
It is not 'vazhaipazhattil Usi'
it is 'UsippOna vAzahaipazhaM'

nice recollection arasi
I remember reading all about it then...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:25

Well, a few years ago my wife and I celebrated the wedding of our daughter in a Hindu ceremonial mode in a small town in the midwest inviting a priest from the Balaji temple in Chicago. During the various sequences of the wedding we played the appropriate marriage songs from the CD (Sudha Ragunathan) including "mAlai sAttinAL kOdai mAlai mARRinAL ..", "manmadanukku mAlaiyiTTALE..", "nalangiDa vArum rAjA.." and a few others. Finally when the lunch was ready, " bhOjanam seyya vArungO..". When the last song was explained in English the crowd raced to the dining hall!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:33

cmlover wrote:Shankar
It is not 'vazhaipazhattil Usi'
it is 'UsippOna vAzahaipazhaM'

..

It is worse than that. It is azhugippOna vAzhaippazham!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:33

Usi pOna vAzhaip pazham uvakkumO?
Note the missing ippannA!:)

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 01 Mar 2007, 22:52

Perhaps an appropriate song to render at one of these events would be 'Nidhichala sukhama'?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 23:11

And remind the bride's father of 'nidhi' when he sees himself going bankrupt by the minute?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Mar 2007, 23:15

USippOna pazhamuNDAl uDal keduM, keDum uLamE
vASi ninaivozhithalAl

ஊசிப்போன பழமுண்டால் உடல் கெடும், கெடும் உளமே
வாசி நினைவொழிதலால்
(By eating spoiled fruit body health is destroyed, (while) by forgetting Lord Siva the mind is destroyed)

Note 'vASi' (the reverse of Siva) is the secret bIja of pancAkShara!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Mar 2007, 23:22

Can be sung as a viruttam in siva ranjani.
I say it merely because it doesn't hurt to bring in a rAgA name--any rAgA name--before fingers are pointed at us for turning it into a literary forum, though doggerels abound

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Mar 2007, 23:55

LOL!
'nidhi chAla sukhamA?' vs 'kanyAm kanaka sampannAm'....MMMMMM.....The father of the bride is giving away a precious, priceless gem...so, he is impoverished in just one fell swoop, and not by the minute!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 02 Mar 2007, 00:37

Giving dowry as well as the priceless gem of a daughter at one stroke is called Double Jeopardy.

It can be sent as a topic to Alex Trebek for his show!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Mar 2007, 01:16

arasi
wish fulfilled
http://www.sendspace.com/file/nnu9c8
I visualized standing at chitsabhai !
(Can be sung by the bridegroom after the wedding (while ready to quit the grihastAshrama

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 02 Mar 2007, 01:25

Good one CML !

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Mar 2007, 01:28

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Mar 2007, 08:51

Voice in great shape, CML! Read somwhere--a particular variety of banana (vAzhaip pazham

) is great for the condition of your throat. Surely, it is not available in Canada!

meena · Post by **meena** » 02 Mar 2007, 09:37

CML! Read somwhere--a particular variety of banana (vAzhaip pazham smile) is great for the condition of your throat.

arasi
i have heard the opp. that vocalist avoid eating banana- catch a cold.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Mar 2007, 10:09

Meena,
I had heard the same all these years, and was surprised to read this recently--can't remember where exactly. It was a tamizh article on health, probably. One particular variety of banana was cited.
Any way, whatever its effect on the throat, any kind of banana a day keeps fatigue away...

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 02 Mar 2007, 10:55

I am in agreement with Bharath [that the music and function together is too much to handle], and pretty much followed arasi's pattern. Two concerts for my wedding [Malladi Brothers and Smt. Vedavalli]. One was organized before the 'mapillai azhaippu' and one was organized the evening of the wedding. Both were conducted in a serene atmosphere especially Smt. Vedavalli's.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 02 Mar 2007, 11:30

arasi, nice narration. however, it isnt always possible. it needs a lot of laundrying of the society to get such efforts work the way we want.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 02 Mar 2007, 20:30

When I first scanned the title of this thread and saw the word "matrimonial", I though someone was posting a matrimonial ad on rasikas.org

Now that's an idea...CM matrimonials...I'm sure several single music lovers would endorse it!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 02 Mar 2007, 20:37

CML,
'vasi' indicates the awareness and control of breath which is capable of kindling 'sushma nadi'

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Mar 2007, 21:14

chalanata wrote:CML,
'vasi' indicates the awareness and control of breath which is capable of kindling 'sushma nadi'

Yes thanks for reminding. KBS sings somewhere
'vASiyAlE mUlakkanal vISiyE SuDar viDa...'

Guys

This story sparked by Jayaram I must share. A very nice 'traditional' boy (whose family I knew) was pestering me ti find a match for him; his only condition was that the girl should be a very good CM singer. I knew this girl (?spinster) who was trained in CM and was also a concert performer. The only problem was that she was a 'kunjari' (of humungus proportions!). Not withstanding I arranged for a blind date hoping that the boy will not mind (since both the families were quite reputable). Surprise! After the meet the girl said she could not marry a 'mountain of flesh' (which indeed he was

at any cost. The story has a happy ending. Both are now happily married and have kids who are quite normal

The Lady now sings only for T festivals (pity the old man

(oh! PBUH

shrinik · Post by **shrinik** » 10 Mar 2017, 06:36

cmlover wrote: ↑02 Mar 2007, 21:14
chalanata wrote:CML,
'vasi' indicates the awareness and control of breath which is capable of kindling 'sushma nadi'
Yes thanks for reminding. KBS sings somewhere
'vASiyAlE mUlakkanal vISiyE SuDar viDa...'

Guys

This story sparked by Jayaram I must share. A very nice 'traditional' boy (whose family I knew) was pestering me ti find a match for him; his only condition was that the girl should be a very good CM singer. I knew this girl (?spinster) who was trained in CM and was also a concert performer. The only problem was that she was a 'kunjari' (of humungus proportions!). Not withstanding I arranged for a blind date hoping that the boy will not mind (since both the families were quite reputable). Surprise! After the meet the girl said she could not marry a 'mountain of flesh' (which indeed he was at any cost. The story has a happy ending. Both are now happily married and have kids who are quite normal
The Lady now sings only for T festivals (pity the old man (oh! PBUH

rshankar wrote: ↑28 Feb 2007, 20:56 I am not clear what the actual ceremonies are in the wedding you are planning, but here are some suggestions based on my experience with some tamizh weddings:
As the bride is led to the pandal the previous evening: vAdirAja's lakshmI shObhAne...(first verse of vAraNam Ayiram will also be appropriate)
As the groom enters the pandal AnDAL's 'nALai vadhuvai maNam enru' verse...
As the wedding garlands are offered to the bride and groom in the pandal - AnDAL's verse 'indiran uLLiTTa dEvar kuzham ellAm' verse...
As the wedding invitation is read - villai muRitiDum vallavanukku yenru vAkkiTTu

The day of the wedding, the bride has a ceremonial bath - start with verse from nAcciyAr tirumozhi - the verse - nAldiSai tIrthangaL followed by AnnamAcAryA's kshIrAbdhi kanyakaku nIrAjanam
As the bride enters the hall on the day of the wedding - AK's kANavEDum laskham kaNNgaL
The Unjal ceremony has it's own songs, including kaNNUnjal ADi irundAL, kAnchanamAlai manam maghizhndAL
As the bride and groom come back after the Unjal ceremony - PD's kshIrAbdi kannikE
During the saptapadi - AnDAL's 'vAi nallAr nal marai Odi mandirattAl'
Immediately after the saptapadi/mAgalyadhAraNam - Lalgudi Jayaraman's Sankaran umaiyin kaitalam paRRinAr iruvarum mAlaigaL mARRi magizhdanar .....
ammi midikkiradu - AnDAL's immaikkum EzhEzhu piravikkum verse
pori iDudal - AnDAL's nAcciyAr tirumozhi verse - variSilai vAL mugattu

nalangu has it's own set of songs including nalangiDugirAL mInalOcanI (mInAkSi nalangu)

Request someone to post the lyrics or audio link for sankaran umaiyin by lalgudi jayaram as mentioned in the post.Thanks

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Mar 2017, 09:25

srinik,
Do you realize that you have taken us old timers a long way back (ten years, to be exact)? We still miss old friends here on the forum

We try to keep in touch all the same...

rasikas.org

Carnatic Matrimonial Music

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Re: Carnatic Matrimonial Music