Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by RSR »

A certain world-view based on deep study of pre-war (First World War) and historical developments from 1850 decade..( First War of Independence in India, The American Civil War, The Chartist movement in England, Paris Commune in France , and the Taiping Revolution in China ) is needed to understand the great work done by Lenin, Stalin, Nehru and Indira Gandhi. It is significant that the USA never had a Left movement. ( with a few exceptions like Edmund Wilson the author of To the Finland Station, Gunther, Louis Fischer, Anna Louis Strong and of course Edgar Snow. This is not a suitable forum for talking about them. Left-of-Center politics is not and need not be dogmatic ideology and cheap gimmicks. Googling for the 'recipients of the award under question, we find great souls like Dr.Abdul Kalam , Acharya Thulasi, Swamy Ranaganathanandha, P.N.Haksar , Mohan Dharia, besides Smt.MS in the list. SRI.TMK is nowhere near any of them. The blame is to be shared equally between the awards committee and the recipient. He could have declined the award. . For the world-view , interested readers can refer to
https://sites.google.com/site/rsrpages/... (just a collection of articles). Not for discussion.

Rsachi
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009, 13:54

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by Rsachi »

Today is the grand finale of KBC. Kailash Satyarthi is the special contestant. He won 50L.
He narrated how in 1969, during the Gandhi Centenary, as an idealist 15 year old, he and his friends arranged a dinner, to be cooked by women of untouchable caste, which would be served to prominent citizens and politicians, as a demonstration of India's true adherence to Gandhi's Harijan movement. The buffet was ready. But none of the dignitaries came, making sorry excuses. He cried, was one of the few who partook of the dinner, much to the satisfaction and blessing of the Harijan women. He then went home only to face the wrath of the Brahmin priests who were waiting late into the night and his family. He was banished as an outcaste to an outhouse aa he wouldn't go for their Dharmic atonement ritual.

He decided to continue his fight, and abandoned his caste name Sharma and changed it to Satyarthi.

He told many gut-wrenching stories of children who had been ruthlessly exploited. Those stories will haunt me for a long time.

shankarank
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Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by shankarank »

RSR wrote: 06 Nov 2017, 19:31 we find great souls like Dr.Abdul Kalam , Acharya Thulasi, Swamy Ranaganathanandha, P.N.Haksar , Mohan Dharia, besides Smt.MS in the list. SRI.TMK is nowhere near any of them.
The very sense of this award conveys a message that Integration has been achieved synthetically with efforts of people when the events surrounding the creation of the country disproves that. If you read the Ramachandra Guha article, it conveys that sense that some individuals were just able to convince - powerless indigent princes to accede. The trouble with Kashmir accession tells you as much!

The Left claiming to represent the cause of the people, focuses on who it wants to focus on to construct the narrative even falsely. Subversive in thought itself.

The fact is some faiths do not accept and respect other faiths, when the word tolerance itself is meaningless! Do you tolerate your family at the dinner table?

The left does not want to acknowledge that the unity is integral not synthetic and does not want to acknowledge the heritage and cultural underpinnings - for reasons like treatment of Women and Dalits in the past.

Is it that easy for a Woman walk safely in the street? How much does it take to make that happen - assuming you are told to make it happen from scratch?

sreebeecane
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011, 22:10

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by sreebeecane »

Discovered this a few years ago and I have been happy ever since: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Disclaimer: This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by shankarank »

You have only 116 posts so far - so keep trying :lol:

ram1999
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Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 17:20

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by ram1999 »

I guess Krishna and Kamala Hassan will make a perfect team. Both have lost their heads and are making unwarranted comments !!

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by sureshvv »

Which is the comment you disagree with :) ?



shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by shankarank »

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/int ... ss-culture
The classical Brahamnical culture never gives you this freedom. We have lost Devdasi voice and face from music and dance. It is a loss. Brahmins segregate things into classical and folk forms.
Which Brahmin/traditional literature of any kind segregated folk and classical.? The word classicism entered only when CM opinion leaders ( I don't know if I have to mention their caste here - a pillaival musician would have stood by his tradition as much as anybody else) speaking in English started using that term. They didn't segregate the art into two forms - stupid - they were segregated in the first place - when they urbanized! Agraharams may have been separate streets - but as a community they had large dependence for survival (consequently lot of interaction) on the rest of the people!

Samskriti arose in the forest (Aranyams) even more remote that folk art would have. Using that term in place of classical makes for lot of difference. Samskriti means it can evolve and change - not stuck to some classical era. If Brahmins got into music for whatever reason - why would they not put their footprint on it?

When communities themselves are disintegrating ( except where some traditional causes are promoted ) and people don't know their neighbors and I cannot talk one thing about tradition or anything @ water cooler - except movie jokes - where is any genuine future for real expressive art - except technique and virtuosity taking center stage?

If Dalits are going to make use of rAgAs to put forth their woes - and somebody is going to listen to them better than before - by all means! That is saying whatever their art is currently is not having any effect! Why? Because we segregated folk and classical? - banal!


sureshvv
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Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 09 Nov 2017, 10:08
Which Brahmin/traditional literature of any kind segregated folk and classical.?
The faux Brahmins that TMK hangs out with? :D

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by Nick H »

Awards, awards...

Now the city of Chennai has got a UNESCO award as a Creative City.

Mr Modi has congratulated the people of Chennai.

If I was his speech writer, I would have put it differently. It would also be the other side, the true side, in my humble opinion, to the Brahmin-exclusivity rant of TMK or anybody else.

I would suggest that Mr Modi offer hearty congratulations and support to the tiny minority community who have preserved and grown this music, without whom it would have vanished under the dung heap of the stuff the other 99. 9% listen to.

My percentage is not meant to be a statistic, of course, just a metaphor for the minority among the minority that are active in the classical-music world.

RSR
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Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by RSR »

What is the use of talking about the origins of language? It is yet to be conclusively proven. Is it not a fact that almost all the major Indian languages are based on sanskrit except tamil? and what is the age of modern English ( it got stabilized only around 1650 AD ( not BC ) and yet gave World class literature in abundance ), whereas Panini's grammar was written in 700 BC itself and we too had great literature ( Bhasa Mahakavi wrote Swapna Vaasavadhatthaa in 400 BC! in the days of Magadha empire and Valmiki Ramayanam predates Buddha. .
It is not good to insult the sacred memory of our saint poets like Purandharadasa , Trinity and others. They all led very austere lives. And did not the most orthodox of them all, Dikshithar teach music to the Tanjore Quartet? were they brahmins? Were not all the temple nagaswaram players from non-brahmin communities? Were they not respected much by the most orthodox composers and musicians? Has not Chinna Moula Sahib been conferred Sangitha Kalanidhi award" . but like Dr.Kalam, he has imbibed the finest traditions of Tamilnad and India in general. ( like Bismilla Khan who opted to stay back in India and play for Kasi Viswanatha than migrate to Pakisthan). and was not Allaudddin Khan a devotee of Pramahamsa?
Times have changed a lot. Social discrimination and atrocities did exist for centuries and perhaps exist even today but it is not correct assumption that all the non-brahmin and excluded communities are dying to learn Carnatic music today. . I will even say that a large percentage of even brahmin youngsters dont care much for it. unless it is really lucrative ( say , getting into film music or a professional teacher to kids in USA), I suppose there are quite a few music colleges in tamilnad with all the usual support and encouragement under reservation quota. Any data as to how the youngsters have used such facilities? Without Bakthi movement, we cannot really appreciate CM. That is precisely what is vanishing from youth from ALL the communities. ( except in very superficial form).

kvchellappa
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Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by kvchellappa »

Nick, much of what is celebrated is of minority. The Jews corner most awards in fields that matter sort of, and they are a minority, and even among Jews those that get recognised are a minority, the majority Jews are like most other people (source: The Economist). Classical music has limited audience because it is demanding and requires preparation. That Chennai has become a centre for celebrating classical music like perhaps no other city (I do not know about Vienna's cities) is worth recognition.
I enjoy your humour, but could not resist expressing what came at first blush.

sureshvv
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Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by sureshvv »

kvchellappa wrote: 09 Nov 2017, 15:50Classical music has limited audience because it is demanding and requires preparation.
Yes. Not only to perform but even to just listen/enjoy. Most people lack the attention span. With such a limited audience, it cannot be seen as a money hoarding profession, except for the very select few at the top.

If TMK wants to do something for the neglected arts, he should learn one of them and perform them as much as he can. Rather than besmirching the existing classical arts.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration for TM Krishna

Post by RSR »

@34..interview by .... in National Herald... 1) What is wrong in being a cadre-based organization? they have very close ties with rural people. as Congress and Communists once had in pre-independence days. 2) In the aftermath of Chinese aggression, Nehruji allowed the sangh volunteers to participate in Republic day parade. 3) During national disasters, sangh volunteers can be seen working in earnest in relief operations. 4) Nehruji has pinpointed the fact that oppression on daliths is due to their being predominantly landless agricultural labour . Dr.Kalam has suggested that agricultural co-operatives similar to the White Revolution by Vergees be taken up and encouraged allotting land to the landless. Krushnammal Jagannathan has shown the way Majoritarian vote bank politics prevents any such program being implemented as it will turn the non-daliths against the party. Surprising that no one is serious about proportional representation. Bahujan Samaj party should have got about 20 parliament seats . but due to defective electoral system , it has no representation in parliament. The interview is typical pseudo-left stuff.

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