The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

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Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by Nick H »

RSR walls of text share information
In colour too!

But... you did tell me something I didn't know about the word curate :)

arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by arasi »

A curious curate from a humble parish
Sailed the seas to see the world--
Landed in Chennai, learned mridangam,
And ended up as a curator of drums 8-)

Nick, you came much later, when BhArath came as Vidya Bhavan to good old England and you could learn to play percussion :)

shankarank
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by shankarank »

RSR wrote: 17 Nov 2017, 23:25 "Mr. Sastry did not speak English as an Englishman would do. But he spoke it as it ought to be spoken."
So he essentially Sanskritized the English :lol: - the much hated concept :evil: . What do you expect of a Sastri? ;)

But those of Sheldon Pollock and such - who blame the Brahmins of yore for using the complex un-understandable Sanskrit to literarize ( spell checker failed :shock: ) and subsequently aestheticize (spell checker failed again :shock: ) power and lord over the masses - write in such a complex English - it takes a person who lived in the U.S. to break through it. By the way they claim they know Sanskrit better and want to translate classics for the Indian/World reader ( charles dickenize it - again I have not read Charles Dickens either - but quoting Rohan Murthy from an NDTV interview).

Our socialogists who dot the JNUs, the DUs and the TISS - consume this koolaid and unleash it in IAS exam questions!

But back to the topic: From Mridangam to language and then to poetry - here is for you, the strange cyclical loop - Ouroboros that surrounds Nataraja : https://youtu.be/McMgRmVYBxM?t=385 back to tatarigidatom - the full evolutionary cycle of Humans and their language!

So if mrt+angam etc were all there - ( you can watch a youtube - link in an old thread in Layam forum from Sri Rajamani - son of Palghat Mani Iyer) - PMI tried all of them. So it is not the physical sound or form of the instrument - you can curate the instrument and it's history as much as you want :twisted: - but its indeed the metaphysics of it that transcends time!

And that essentially has to pass from Guru to Sishya with bone observation and bone action! Hope any international school of arts that they want to fund using UNESCO tag, don't remove that sacred element from it!

sureshvv
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by sureshvv »

It would help people greatly if RSR would make the post relevant to the title of the thread, or just start a new thread. Srinivasa Sastry's life experiences should merit its own thread.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by Nick H »

I can take any thread in any forum off topic in a post or two. I particularly specialise in turning them into discussion about boats and the sea. On one forum, this even got a name (creating language), futtocking as in this thread is now futtocked. This is born of futtock shrouds, part of the rigging of a sailing boat. With a little craft (ahem, no pun actually intended, but hey, why not!), we turned the word into something sounding a bit rude, essentially telling that the thread is now beyond repair. I'm an expert at this. But on this forum I feel like a mere beginner!

I was a poor music student. I continue to be a terrible failure as a language student. But I will continue to beat the drum about the aesthetics of both. Because art is socialist, so... we all can. Sure, the usefulness of our comments may be related to our individual experience and knowledge... but even the knowledgeable can go astray.

kvchellappa
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by kvchellappa »

Nick, you have faintly connected it to the topic (drum) and so failed in digressing!

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by Nick H »

Sometimes I can do that too. I may not be able to count, but have been known to arrive at samum!

RSR
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by RSR »

@104..vvsuresh-> I am not particularly interested in the 'thaalam' aspect of CM and kutcheris.. In the first 100 posts in this thread, my entry was at 83 about the usage of the word 'curating' which sounded strange.( not only to me...to @77 also) and I shared my view. From 77 to 100, the entries have been exchanges about the usage of that word by Nickm and 'related' perceptions. I have not actually counted ( I am counting now...my entries are just 7 out of 107 and the last 4 are more or less contiguous (83,84,87,....96,97,98,100)) but my entries in this thread were not about the 'percussion instrument under discussion. One party ( the initiator with picture of the instrument and all) blames the performers and another party blames the acoustics and technology. ( to me , not a concert-goer, it matters very little ). My only interest in this thread was about the 'verbifying' a noun. Yankee English is different from British English and till a few decades back , it was King's English ( or if you prefer Queen's English now) that was standard. My preference obviously is for King's English. and the topic of Srinivasa Sastry is quite relevant while discussing proper English usage. Moreover, even if the American practice permits in grammar, good style demands that we avoid 'ugly' usages. Even for reference, ( for some)it is Henry James and T.S.Eliot ( both from USA but protagonists of English way of thinking than the American). Even approval and admiration from Winston Churchill is not comparable to approval from a post 1990 yankee-hippie marauding as scholar. to some 'natural-born yankee'. .Not all people from Tamilnad speak proper Tamil and like 'hackneyed ', madras tamil is well known. .I was wondering if the name of the said percussion instrument had something to do with 'mrudhu ' मुदु (soft) Perhaps it has. but the wiki relates it to 'clay' first and 'bone' next. I thought it worthwhile to give a link to the wiki page, to bring the thread back to its starting point . http://spokensanskrit.org/index.php?mod ... &direct=es
I wonder if Purandaradasa and the trinity had mridangam accompaniment!. Raga Alaapanaa and vrutthams have no role for any percussion instrument. There are separate sections for Ragam , Layam and a few of my posts are in threads related to translation of some lyrics and clarification and information about the ragam of a few songs. I have scrupulously avoided rambling exchanges. . Smileys and such are meant for mute people. like the cavemen who did not know how else to communicate. Links are bad enough as our admin points out but links to tube are worse. Why not give a synopsis and then the link if needed.? I request that transliteration of 'naRai' be corrected. It should be 'narai' only.And the quote from Thulasidas Ramayana was definitely obtrusive abusive, offensive and uncouth. . Let us meet again in someother thread later.

shankarank
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by shankarank »

devan wrote: 15 Nov 2017, 20:20 The mridangist in the MLv concert was R. Ramesh and the so called rowdy Rasika is Ravisri. I was also there in the concert.
Well well well..., finally RR ended up playing for Chingelpet Ranganathan , who was singing Purandaradasa for the Kannada sangha ! - when nobody would be interested in creativity. At least the love of language of certain people, gave them a chance to occupy the stage.

Neither Chingelpet could execute his niche manOdharma, nor Ramesh could bang his Mridangam ( I mean play an effective tani, having not warmed up enough due to the nature of the songs!) , only to blame the over-cooled auditorium @ IITM CLT for his Mridangam going off Sruti before starting his tani! With not enough warm bodies to absorb the chill, but few souls to listen to soulful renditions!

So the man from Chingelpet who could not bring his Manaodharmam to Guindy! We have to wait until the concert moves from tAmbaram station to cengarpaTTU station for what is left of CM to reach back!

kvchellappa
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by kvchellappa »

Instead of beating the mrdangam too much, let us keep to 'curate'!
What about this usage?
"The FEA-curated CROSSROADS festival featured the marvellous young Karnatic vocalist Amritha Murali as the opening artiste on Day 2."

Nick H
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by Nick H »

What about this usage?
AFSHEB.

(arty-farty pseudo hype ego boost)

It is not enough to be an organiser any longer. Those people want to be curators.

I have plenty of respect for organisers, those who bring us the concerts day after day, year after year. I don't respect this ego bloat. Maybe they think the young are more likely to attend concerts which are curated. I doubt it very much.
Instead of beating the mrdangam too much, let us keep to 'curate'!
It is sadly fashionable to beat the mridangists. That is not to say that they are all without fault. Sachi's comments, which I original slightly misunderstood, are a valid basis for conversation.

All art is subject to criticism and nobody is immune. No reason not to name names. Those who disagree with adverse criticism can always offer other opinions.

kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by kvchellappa »

How about this?
"A.Word.A.Day
with Anu Garg
We are born, we grow, and we die. Something similar happens with words.
Someone gestates an idea in the womb of his mind and then delivers it in the form of a word. This begetting of a word is known as coining.
With time a word grows up. It changes its values. It appears in a new hairstyle or gets a new religion. OK, maybe not that, but it changes its spelling, meaning, or pronunciation. Sometimes all three.
This is difficult for many people to accept. They are used to looking at a word in a certain way and do not appreciate when it appears in a new garb. Words can die too. We call such words obsolete."

rshankar
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by rshankar »

Letters are "akshara" (unalterable/immutable), while words can and do mutate freely.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by Nick H »

kvchellappa wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 19:59 How about this?
It's a longer, prettier, version, of "Language evolves." And it often devolves, as I may already have said, at the hand of ignorant usage. Pretty words are not an excuse for ignorance.

sureshvv
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by sureshvv »

rshankar wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 21:52 Letters are "akshara" (unalterable/immutable), while words can and do mutate freely.
In this context, the connotation is of indivisibility/atomicity rather than immutability.

kvchellappa
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by kvchellappa »

After Sri Sivaramakrishnan also used 'curated', I looked up and Oxford dictionary has this entry:

curate2
VERB

[WITH OBJECT]
1Select, organize, and look after the items in (a collection or exhibition)
‘both exhibitions are curated by the Centre's director’
More example sentences
1.1 Select the performers or performances that will feature in (an arts event or programme)
‘in past years the festival has been curated by the likes of David Bowie’
More example sentences
1.2 Select, organize, and present (online content, merchandise, information, etc.), typically using professional or expert knowledge.
‘people not only want to connect when using a network but they also enjoy getting credit for sharing or curating information’
‘a curated alternative to the world's most popular video portal’

shankarank
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by shankarank »

From Ancient Tamizh history this comes close:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desikar
The name pandarathar means valuable storing place of jewels, navarathnas stored in the temples and palaces, they are placed to maintain the jewels of temples and palaces. They are Land holders, Traders, Sanyasis (monk), Priests (guru) and Managers of richly endowed temples.
Etymology explained in an youtube video I watched: panDu - pazhaiya (old) Aram ( pAdukAval). pazhaiya sottukaLai pAdukAppavar. ( One who takes care of antiquities).

We have made that term, derogatory and removed the music from there. It is headed to the new curates!

Much of that kainkaryam was executed by people to whom we sing peons finding their names in songs!

They removed the jewels from temples. We are busy removing them from our Women!

sankark
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by sankark »

shankarank wrote: 25 Nov 2017, 01:11 From Ancient Tamizh history this comes close:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desikar
The name pandarathar means valuable storing place of jewels, navarathnas stored in the temples and palaces, they are placed to maintain the jewels of temples and palaces. They are Land holders, Traders, Sanyasis (monk), Priests (guru) and Managers of richly endowed temples.
Etymology explained in an youtube video I watched: panDu - pazhaiya (old) Aram ( pAdukAval). pazhaiya sottukaLai pAdukAppavar. ( One who takes care of antiquities).

We have made that term, derogatory and removed the music from there. It is headed to the new curates!
பண்டறத்தார் (paNdu + aRaththAr, aram would be a misspelling, it has to be aRam?) or பண்டாரத்தார்? I know, it is a totally pedantic query, but then the devil lies in details :) And totally unconnected to the subject anyways.

shankarank
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Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by shankarank »

sankark wrote: 25 Nov 2017, 20:08 And totally unconnected to the subject anyways.
That is too late a discovery

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The REAL burning issue of CM: Mridangam

Post by shankarank »

அரண்
Araṇ

Bulwark

bulwark
அரண்
acropolis
அரண், பாதுகாப்புடைய நகரம் (அ) குன்று
stronghold
அரண், கோட்டை
donjon
அரண், வலிமைமிக்க கோட்டை
trenchant
கடினமான, அரண், சுருக்கென்ற

It could be from that!

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