The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
Post Reply
sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

It is the still the great purifier/disinfectant, Let us give melam72 the benefit of the doubt :D

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by rshankar »

Really? Why???

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

Just feeling charitable this Sunday I guess :) TNS deserves better than such verbal excoriation.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by rshankar »

TNS, sure!

Charu Venkat
Posts: 38
Joined: 14 Nov 2017, 13:38

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by Charu Venkat »

sureshvv wrote: 09 Dec 2017, 18:02 I think he/she was just being sarcastic.
To clarify, I am a she, and I was sarcastic, almost caustic as a matter of fact.
sureshvv wrote: 09 Dec 2017, 18:02 Not convinced. Give us some names. We will go listen to them. And if you are right, we will petition the sabhas right from here. Sachi will do the paperwork :D
Instead of sitting and doing all this thinnai vambu on Rasikas.org, listen to the concerts sponsored by the Sumanasa Foundation. The schedule is on Mr.Krishna's FB page.

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by Ranganayaki »

ram1999 wrote: 05 Dec 2017, 12:37 I guess the easiest thing that krishna could do is sto start singing "surangani Surangani surangani malu kanna vaa ...." the dapankuthu song in his concerts in place of the varnam which will start attracting the kuppam people, his target audience for inclusiveness and CM to sustain for years to come.

And also he should stop singing songs which have been composed by the bhramin community as he is in a anti bhramin tirade !!
What a horrid, low-brow discussion - with all due respect to the small handful who have tried to have a polite discussion! This post is one of the most egregious, showing disdain and contempt for the "kuppam people." There certainly are other ugly posts too.

And to think that this discussion has raged on for 9 pages without any reference to the actual speech! With not ONE quote Pstating exactly what you found offensive. Here is a link to the actual speech :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRyhgog0RtA

The article/blog by someone called SureshS a link to which was provided in post 117 was a beautiful example of how to analytically criticize an article or an opinion you disagree with - without demonizing the human being who holds those views, the way it's always done here.

We at rasikas have a lot to be ashamed of, especially that we are incapable of of arguing effectively or admitting that our point of view holds no water. This is a political argument and if you are trying to hang on to a certain hegemony as the quote above seems to show, it is essentially a dishonest position that can only appear to be right when the opponent is completely discredited and dehumanized, which is what happens to TMK every time he exercises his democratic right to be a thoughtful citizen by writing, the most peaceful form of opposition. We really SHOULD be ashamed.

Disclaimer: I generally like tmk's music, but I am not a diehard fan.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 07:27
ram1999 wrote: 05 Dec 2017, 12:37 I guess the easiest thing that krishna could do is sto start singing "surangani Surangani surangani malu kanna vaa ...." the dapankuthu song in his concerts in place of the varnam which will start attracting the kuppam people, his target audience for inclusiveness and CM to sustain for years to come.

And also he should stop singing songs which have been composed by the bhramin community as he is in a anti bhramin tirade !!
What a horrid, low-brow discussion - with all due respect to the small handful who have tried to have a polite discussion! This post is one of the most egregious, showing disdain and contempt for the "kuppam people." dited and dehumanized, which is what happens to TMK every time he exercises his democratic right to be a thoughtful citizen by writing, the most peaceful form of opposition.
Are you sure you are not the one being judgmental here? Are Surangani and dappanguthu so vile?

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by Ranganayaki »

Haha, you're being disingenuous, Suresh. I did consider your angle before I wrote and i knew what exactly makes me indignant.

I used to sort of feel it was a fun song. It had its place. It's not vile, but it has no place in a cm concert. I would not be emotionally, intellectually or spiritually stimulated by it.

Would YOU or Ram1999 be attracted to a carnatic concert featuring surangani? That's where his disdain is obvious. It's good for the kuppam people, not any of the usual audience! That will do for them, for us, the glorious music! What a shame!

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by Ranganayaki »

TMK makes his point very well. It's just a question of the humanity of the other community. It is just to make them one day come to a concert if they would like to. Familiarize them with "our" music so that they can feel they have a stake in it too, in that life. His driver cannot come to his concert, he says in that speech. Nothing bars him, the doors are not closed, but it won't do to say that he is equal, that we didn't prevent him from coming. Wouldnt any man hesitate to join a large group of just women though there is nothing that shuts him off? Wouldn't a word of welcome or a seat offered encourage him to join the banter? TMK is making the effort to do his bit, to offer a safe space for that community of fisherpeople to familiarize themselves with this music, so that one day it will be natural for a young fisherman's daughter or son to enter a concert and take a seat. He is doing his bit to make it possible for a poor man to come if he is drawn to it. Who are you to demonize that honest and committed effort? You will all attend dramas and lecdems about nandanar, claim him as a great nayanmar, but you do not recognize that that drama would be played in the heart of a kuppam boy even today if he yearned to sing or play a flute he sees in the movies, but couldn't for want of access. TMK is doing his bit to make it possible IF they want. Who are you all to demonize him?Why would you not welcome them? Why was nandanar excluded? This comment quoted above should give everyone a clear answer.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 08:05 Haha, you're being disingenuous, Suresh.
It was an honest question.
I used to sort of feel it was a fun song. It had its place. It's not vile, but it has no place in a cm concert. I would not be emotionally, intellectually or spiritually stimulated by it.
Exactly. That's kind of what we are all trying to tell TMK.
Would YOU or Ram1999 be attracted to a carnatic concert featuring surangani? That's where his disdain is obvious. It's good for the kuppam people, not any of the usual audience! That will do for them, for us, the glorious music! What a shame!
This is where you are being judgmental. Everybody has their music that they like. One is not superior to the other. There is nothing "glorious" about Carnatic Music and there is nothing vile about Surangani.

When I (or anyone else) want to listen to the Surangani I can head to the kuppam. When I want to listen to Carnatic Music, I walk into any of the sabhas.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 08:25 TMK makes his point very well. It's just a question of the humanity of the other community. It is just to make them one day come to a concert if they would like to. Familiarize them with "our" music so that they can feel they have a stake in it too, in that life. His driver cannot come to his concert, he says in that speech. Nothing bars him, the doors are not closed, but it won't do to say that he is equal, that we didn't prevent him from coming. Wouldnt any man hesitate to join a large group of just women though there is nothing that shuts him off? Wouldn't a word of welcome or a seat offered encourage him to join the banter? TMK is making the effort to do his bit, to offer a safe space for that community of fisherpeople to familiarize themselves with this music, so that one day it will be natural for a young fisherman's daughter or son to enter a concert and take a seat. He is doing his bit to make it possible for a poor man to come if he is drawn to it. Who are you to demonize that honest and committed effort? You will all attend dramas and lecdems about nandanar, claim him as a great nayanmar, but you do not recognize that that drama would be played in the heart of a kuppam boy even today if he yearned to sing or play a flute he sees in the movies, but couldn't for want of access. TMK is doing his bit to make it possible IF they want. Who are you all to demonize him?Why would you not welcome them? Why was nandanar excluded? This comment quoted above should give everyone a clear answer.
We are all happy to welcome anyone. TMK is the one who is demonizing everyone starting with MS & her husband.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by arasi »

Enough said, enough argued, little gained, agreed.
Then, is it the way he showcases all that he thinks,
Does, the way he is and wants us to know about it?

ram1999
Posts: 534
Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 17:20

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by ram1999 »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 08:05 Haha, you're being disingenuous, Suresh. I did consider your angle before I wrote and i knew what exactly makes me indignant.

I used to sort of feel it was a fun song. It had its place. It's not vile, but it has no place in a cm concert. I would not be emotionally, intellectually or spiritually stimulated by it.

Would YOU or Ram1999 be attracted to a carnatic concert featuring surangani? That's where his disdain is obvious. It's good for the kuppam people, not any of the usual audience! That will do for them, for us, the glorious music! What a shame!
I guess there is a clear misunderstanding of my post. There are various types and kinds of music and different people like different type of music. I love Indian classical music (CM/HM) but my children run at a 100 kms speed should i play classical music. Though I have taken enough efforts to get them listen to the classicial music, their ears simply do not have the space to take it. Now can I force it more ! It is futile.

Therefore trying or forcing CM into people who do not have the ears is just going to be futile. Let them enjoy what they like. However, experimenting CM singing in the Kuppam is not bad at all and is to be lauded. Portraying that he is the savior of the art or putting down others in the effort to popularize is a cheap publicity stunt.I am not sure who is stopping a person from the kuppam to come and sit inside the hall to listen to CM. I am understand this happening in a temple still (unfortunate) but not in a music hall ??

I have heard when MMI used to sing in Kapaleeswarar Temple, rickshaw pullers used to stop their work and throng in front of the temple to listen to the divine music of MMI. Similarly even today, any artist that performs in temples in kerala, people from all walks of life throng and listen to CM, perhaps keralites have better taste than all of us put together :lol:

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by shankarank »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 08:25 His driver cannot come to his concert, he says in that speech.
In many forums (organizations , programs) that have anything to do with Sanskriti, you can see Srilankan Tamizh people, but you cannot see many of the Tamils from TamizhnAdu. This is nothing but subversion of their mind. It is not that pre such subversion they were overwhelming connoisuers of this music. Barring the musical communities, they were'nt. Neither were a lot of Brahmins too!

We are talking about what could have been different when music opened up for all. That is exactly the period of the tussle for power and anti-brahminism. The isai vellalar conundrum , has nothing much to do with the kind of things Ranganayaki cites , like his driver not able to come into his concert.

I have listened to that type of teary eyed speech in his IIMB presentation.

He said Coimbatore and he didn't say which sabha. If there was a care taker/driver that made arrangements for him, who refused to come into his concert, that is a typical yajamanan - sEvakan conundrum and a sEvakan not wanting to be seen as acting big in front of some yajamAnan, benefactor of his that employs him. That is a problem statement to be made to the Left and not to the would be most privileged executives of the future. The best the left has done is rid such people of jobs they had in the first place.

This has nothing to do with brahmins making a sabha venue uncomfortable for others. I don't deny the "uncomfortable" part, only deny the "making" part. They are uncomfortable - period. The moopanar family relative felt the same , in the U.S. and he has listened to Thiruvaiyaru concerts with his grand father. This is a cultural discomfort. I would not by the same token go into a Telugu association celebration or Gujarati Garbha dance.

A brahmin smarta friend of mine would not come to Sri Velukudi Krishnan discourse , because that will be dotted by Vaishnavites. I have spent my child hood listening to such discourses, I didn't have any such discomfort!

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by sureshvv »

There are a lot of places that people visit where their drivers don't accompany them. To tarnish Carnatic Music for this is ridiculous.

Nowadays you can see many people who are not even from India attending concerts (some even in Indian attire)
If one is interested to listen to the music, it is very easy.

ram1999
Posts: 534
Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 17:20

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by ram1999 »

sureshvv wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 15:52 There are a lot of places that people visit where their drivers don't accompany them. To tarnish Carnatic Music for this is ridiculous.

Nowadays you can see many people who are not even from India attending concerts (some even in Indian attire)
If one is interested to listen to the music, it is very easy.
It could be a possibility that the driver enjoys a dapankuthu song more than a vathapi ganapathim sung by his boss krishna. why torture the poor driver to come and sit in the claustrophobic hall of music :lol:

ram1999
Posts: 534
Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 17:20

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by ram1999 »

Ranganayaki wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 08:25 His driver cannot come to his concert, he says in that speech. Nothing bars him, the doors are not closed, but it won't do to say that he is equal, that we didn't prevent him from coming.
At least his driver will not crib after the concert that the singer started with a mangalam and ended with a varnam or each piece sung was disjointed :D :D

kvjayan
Posts: 62
Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 17:08

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by kvjayan »

sureshvv wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 15:52 There are a lot of places that people visit where their drivers don't accompany them.
For example, the much hyped Lit. Fest. and other elite 5-star events, frequented by revolutionary musicians, artists and authors.

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by Nick H »

revolutionary musicians, artists and authors.
Gods forbid that creativity and intelligence should actually move the world on a little! Oh dear me, no.

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The pompous T M Krishna spews venom yet again

Post by shankarank »

If the narrative is based on Leftist ideas - then no - it is a journey to nowhere. After British destruction of Indian Textiles ( remember the yarn wheel of Gandhism?) , it was the turn of the Leftists in Maharashtra to put Union members out of job. And every handyman, small time AC repair man talks droves about how the UAW ( United Auto workers) wrecked Detroit!

So even in a controlled experiment in small time & space labs , that failed. Not that Unions should go away - they are needed to check high handed management. May be John Nash's equilibrium may bring some sanity.

But unless we reject that philosophy in every facet of our lives , including Academia, no dialogue is possible. That is a war on humanity!!

Post Reply