Draft Code of Conduct

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Draft Code of Conduct

Post by sureshvv »

First the Dont's
---------------------
1. No personal denigration or malicious insulting of artistes living or dead
2. No blanket stereotyping of the field
3. No mention of any caste name

Please add/subtract/discuss.

If there is a violation of any of these, others can bring it to the attention of the offending poster and ask them to edit and resubmit their post.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by RSR »

1) total approval. 2) the wording is not clear. What is stereotyping? what is 'field'? My impression is that this forum is meant for rasikas of Carnatic music. as defined by Purandharadasa, Sadasiva Brammendram, the Trinity , and later composers of the previous century. It is quite evident that almost all the compositions are devotion-oriented. Hence the defining of CM as essentially a vehicle for Worship. Is this stereotyping?
3) There is nothing wrong in adding the caste name. All over India, all personalities have been known by their caste surnames. In Tamilnad, as Innamburan pointed out in one of his blogs, during our Freedom struggle decades, guru of U.V.Swaminatha Iyer ( Sri.Meenakshisundaram Pillai) was known as PillaivaaL. Thiru.V.Kalyana sundaram Mudaliyar was knon as Mudaliyar. Naicker always referred to EVR. Actually, mentioning the names rather than the surname was considered as disrespect. Panditji was always Nehru. ( he used to be amused by that) . GB Pant , Rajendra Prasad, C.Rajagopalachari, EMS Namboodripad, Charu Majumdar, Kanu Sanyal, Nagabhushan Patnaik, Vinodh Misra, MNRoy, MPT Acharya, JB Kripalani, KM Munshi. Lohia, Asoka Mehta, and Sanjiva Reddy. .. just a few names at random. ..not to omit Modi! and Rahul Gandhi.
Ariyakkudi Ramanujam Iengar, Madurai Mani Iyer, Musiri Subramanya Iyer, Dandapani Desikar, Rajamanickam Pillai,
Palgat Mani Iyer, .. if we leave out the surname, ..it would certainly be uncultured. What is in a name? it is the attitude that matters.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by sureshvv »

Nothing uncultured with Palghat Mani Sir (or Vaal).

We can make an exception if there is no other way of uniquely identifying the person (this probably is an issue only with people who are no longer alive).

All surnames are not caste names. So I don't think you should include Modi, Gandhi, etc. as caste names.

Please understand the spirit in which this is being suggested, Why carry the poison forward when it is so divisive?

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by Nick H »

Suresh is plainly referring to caste as a topic, not caste as a name.

I would suggest that some wording banning any kind of discrimination, or communalism. (But then how will sankarank talk about the father of his favourite tribes? ;) )

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by RSR »

Sri.Sureshvv, I do understand the spirit in which you have made the suggestion and am all for it. Even in the pre-1960 period mentioned by me, not all the artistes in CM world were known by their caste based surnames. (ex) GNB. .... I do not think, any of the lady artistes were known by their caste names ,either. . It is very common among tamil-brahmins living in Kerala ( most of them talk Tamil but cannot read Tamil, it seems) , even youngsters are known by the 'Iyer' suffix, as recorded in their certificates. . Not a matter of pride but just a custom. just as names ending with Nair, Panikkar, Menon,Pillai, Maaraar, etc. This is so in all the states of our country. More a habit and custom. I dont think, any of the artistes in Tamilnad of the post 1960 generation use caste names. .Just removing caste suffix from our name is no assurance that the mindset behind conscious usage or otherwise, is absent. Witness the numerous caste conflicts in rural tamilnad , least involving brahmins since the turn of last century. ... Modi IS a caste name ( Sri.Narendra Modi and so is Gandhi ( a corruption of Gandi , a parsi name , changed into gandhi by Feroze ( a parsi) and a close associate of Jawahar, Kamala Nehru and Nehru family and a freedom fighter. The Gandhi surname had nothing to do with that of the Father of the Nation. Mohandas Karamchandra Gandhi
Pardon me for the digression. We followers of Purandhara Dasa are definitely anti0casteist. So are all vaishnavites. ,followers of Sri.Ramanuja.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by sureshvv »

RSR wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 09:05 Just removing caste suffix from our name is no assurance that the mindset behind conscious usage or otherwise, is absent.
You are right. But it shows that one is making the effort.
Modi IS a caste name
Google says otherwise!
We followers of Purandhara Dasa are definitely anti0casteist. So are all vaishnavites. ,followers of Sri.Ramanuja.
We need more of these followers, who follow the teachings rather than the symbols.

Anusha
Posts: 124
Joined: 19 May 2006, 13:50

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by Anusha »

While I understand the need for moderation, creating rules would be quite a challenge!
Can't help recalling the commandments of 'Animal Farm' :)
and, the popular quote of Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by RSR »

@6-> This is from wiki. " Modi's family belonged to the Modh-Ghanchi-Teli (oil-presser) community,[18][19][20] which is categorised as an Other Backward Class by the Indian government.[21][22]".. In Tamil country , they would be known as 'vANiyan chetty'. Some of the caste names just denote the traditional occupation. ( especially craftsmen). Not that it matters anyway, Just for the record.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narendra_Modi

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by sureshvv »

Modher is name of region IIRC

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by Nick H »

Anusha wrote: 12 Dec 2017, 09:16 While I understand the need for moderation, creating rules would be quite a challenge!
Not really: it is a problem that most internet forums have, and have solved. Model sets of such rules can be found on forums Indian and international. It is easier to make rules than to enforce them, but enforcing them can and is done. Moderators have to be prepared to be unpopular,
... the popular quote of Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it somewhere else.."
There, as they say in the internet: fixed that for you. Fixed that for Voltaire!

Actually, I will certainly not defend to the death, or at all, a person's right to say anything they wish.

Anusha
Posts: 124
Joined: 19 May 2006, 13:50

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by Anusha »

Yes, completely agree.

Nick H
Posts: 9379
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Draft Code of Conduct

Post by Nick H »

In a moderately less-than-perfect world, it is easy to agree to defending the right of people to say that which with which we do not agree. Sadly, this world is so imperfect, with bias and discrimination from the simple non-employment of a female/black/wrong-religion/etc/etc/ job applicant to extremism, murder and warfare.

I have no idea in what context Voltaire said what he did: it might apply within the bounds of the civilised sectors of life, but not to the world in general.

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