The argumentative and smug Carnatic Rasika

[harimau]

Though it is news to me that Jawaharlal Nehru is considered an historian.

Jawaharlal Nehru was not only a historian, he is a scientist, economist, and everything else of the highest order!

In India, you can question Mahatma Gandhi but not Jawaharlal Nehru.

Once upon a time, there wasn't much use for diesel oil and it was cheap but polluting.

But it was decreed that diesel should forever be cheaper than petrol and thus far in India it is. The result is our country is choking with pollution.

By 1980, Singapore for instance reversed that and diesel is more expensive than petrol there. The result is that you have clean air in Singapore.

In India, people are condemned to breathe the emissions of diesel vehicles.

People's health is not as important as holding on to the dictates of Nehru. The Congresswallahs would condemn Indians to a miserable life and even more miserable death because we dare not challenge Nehru.

[/rant over]

PS. In the US, on a recent trip I noticed diesel was more expensive than petrol. And it always has been, except during the oil shock of the early 1970s, when they also succumbed to the madness and GM even made a few diesel cars. And they do use diesel for household and industrial heating but you don't see black smoke coming out of the exhaust of the oil-fired heaters because those furnaces are maintained properly unlike the diesel vehicles in India.

[shankarank]

@16->RSR The historiography reeks of all Marxist classification which denies any common thread or underlying commonality. All cults, primitive!

Recognition of fertility and creation is the first grand understanding of the self - marching it did towards the conscious. Not some sermon giver that mounts the mound and gives commandments - proclaiming himself to be the messenger of god!

It is very much like how this post Nehruvian Marxist historian writes:

http://indianculturalforum.in/2017/12/2 ... la-thapar/

Mahabharata and Ramayana were civilizational symbhols, it seems, but later become Vaishnavite "religious" texts! She counts percentages of people - as to how many were brahmin. And philosphy is a projection for her - non existent. But we have to apply that to her own ideology - as to what is the percentage of polit-bureau members who hold sway and command the proletariat!

No lady! - Ramayana and Mahabharata were the lost history of Germanic noble warrior men riding horses whose noble story of valor and conquest were unfortunately philosophized by the minority Brahmins. Did you consult German Indologists when you wrote that?

Buddhism it seems is ecclesiastical - like Church - not adyAtmic or yogic where a practitioner is under his own self control and observances.

And these diverse set of people don't have a unified "religious" identity goes the argument. All biased by language inflicted from outside the land. The word "language" loses its meaning.

Nitwit!!

Philosophy is written always by one or two and debated by a few others - but it is based on how everybody else lived so far and continue to live by - not something that is a truth only on the day it is proposed and not something that appears in the stupidity of kindergartners and then gets imposed with violence!

So we the liberty minded are called materialists - but those obsessed with materialism are these brain machines, who are always worried about the social condition of bodies - not people!

[shankarank]

The result is that you have clean air in Singapore.

Singapore , Dubai, Davos - all post colonial outposts - or financial accretion posts - for all the rich who are taxed at the highest rate to convince the proletariat of the benevolence of the French Republic , but in actuality the tax is a deposit. It is then siphoned off to tax havens and used among many other things to fund chairs in Oxford , Harvard and Ivy leagues , to buy influence - whose kindergartners in the social-illogy write stuff - which even the funding sources don't function or live by - for the consumption of leaders of the proletariat in the third world, so they hold sway over the masses.

History repeats itself - but only European history repeats itself - it repeats itself under time reversal also - back into the past - once you run the video tape of the colonized backwards! Time symmetrical! The aboriginal and the pagans don't have history - they are just myths and their stories are mythical legendary folklore.

Have you read a book called if you want to rob a bank - own one!!

[RSR]

#27-> Mere verbiage...... I have many times, reiterated that I follow Jawaharlal Nehru , who made the Best Synthesis of all that was good in all the countries and faiths. and a true follower of the Rug Vedic slogan that one might be familiar with. 'aano bhadhra krathavanthu viswathaha''. Let noble thoughts come from all directions of the world. and the noble thoughts include the Sermon on the Mount. just as the teachings at Saranath. It also includes the Communist Manifesto. Marx himself in his writings on India, speaks of the 'communist type ' of common ownership. under the term Oriental mode of production. Russia also had the same type of ownership. ... Refer the famous exchange of letters between Vera Zasulitch and Marx. Vera and Russian Revolutionary Social democrats maintained that common ownership and abolition of private property is not new in Russian 'mir' and hence Russia can pass from feudalism to Socialism without the bourgeois interregnum.
In the very early times of Aryan settlements in the Gangetic plains, the huge forests had to be cleared. and just as in the days of the Wild West in the Yankee world, gun toting, hipsters could lay claim to vast tracts of land in the West Of USA and exterminate the Apache. ( see the film 'Blue Moon'). That was the pattern in Australia and Newzeland as well. All this is VERY RECENT history. but I am talking about 1500 or slightly earlier period ( of course BC). An enterprising group of people would clear the forest and create a farming community. Naturally , it was a clan . So would other clans. Each such village was self-governing. and led by elders of the community. The land was tilled in common and even irrigation works were carried out by 'sram dhaan'. 'kudi maraamatthu'. in tamil. When kingdoms were formed, the State levied just one sixth of the produce as tax. ( for protecting the village from local and alien marauders). King was not the owner. Some were elected kings. and many were republics too. Statecraft demands that Royalty is hereditary and has a hallow of divinity. A valorous and just King protects his people. and leads personally in war risking his own life. ( Krushna deva Raya 1500 AD ..contemporary of Purandhara dasa. is reported by Venetian visitor of having such war-scars all over.) Naturally, a just king is equivalent to a God. .. Nammaazhvaar sings 'When I see such a king, I see God'. .Marx speaks of a typical village settlement ( around 1800 AD) as being almost self-sustaining and services by calendar brahmin) astrologer) , the village priest, medicine man, carpenter, and so on. They were paid their share of produce by the panchayath. . Brahmins led a very austere life , almost totally immersed in their ordained duties. as mentioned by Tolkaappiyam. ' performing fire worship, helping others in such worship, learning and teaching, getting grants in appreciation of their excellence and in turn giving to needy generously. . The were hence respected by the nobility and laity as well. My birth place had entire streets of lawyers and teachers, and they were universally admired and respected though many of the teachers were very poor. . In Tanjore belt, a few brilliant scholars were given huge land grant by the monarchs. It simply meant that the people need pay the one sixth directly to the village brahmin sabaa than to the state and king. . Once again, I reiterate , ' do not brand Marxism on the formula understanding of Indian Marxists. Nehru understood better. .. The hostility to my perception is predictable from the black shirt and saffron gang.

[shankarank]

#29 - RSR I have to say you are using Indian Wisdom to re-read Marx. That is not how so called paid scholars are reading it. When Indian experience is there to understand by its own language , I don't know why we need to create an Aura around Marx to understand it.

Are there Marxists waiting to be won over to our side?

[RSR]

Sachi_R » 01 Jan 2018, 22:49
RSR,
We are surely living up to the "argumentative" part!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely , Lokamanya Tilak was not an illiterate bigot,
The Arctic Home in the Vedas is a history book on the origin of Aryanic People by Bal Gangadhar Tilak, a mathematician turned astronomer, historian, journalist, philosopher and political leader of India. It propounded the theory that the North Pole was the original home of Aryans during the pre-glacial period which they had to leave due to the ice deluge around 8000 B.C. and had to migrate to the Northern parts of Europe and Asia in search of lands for new settlements. In support to his theory, Tilak presented certain Vedic hymns, Avestic passages, Vedic chronology and Vedic calendars with interpretations of the contents in detail.The book was written at the end of 1898, but was first published in March 1903 in Pune.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arcti ... _the_Vedas

https://archive.org/details/TheArcticHomeInTheVedas

[shankarank]

We cannot use personalities and their perceptive greatness ( I do view them as great) as a deciding factor.

There is now a genetic research underway and lets see what that says if at all if it says anything conclusive. The story kept changing. But I am not averse to a story of drifting population from anywhere - but as per current genetics as well as the itihasa, some groups combining with some others seems right. We just can't tell the timeline. It could be more continuous over a longer time frame.

If vEdic people came from outside , their tradition as we know now is mostly Oral and they were not the operating civilization until kingdoms were established. So would not have left much in terms of archaeological evidence, even if they were drifting and combining since 6000 BC.

The operating civilization for millenia at that time is any one of the pre-existing civilizations - Druids, Druhyus. Either it is with the nature of those people or lack of technology to control, or the fact that these arose in the forests instead of the desert, they coexisted and all attributes of the pre-existing civilizations are still alive today! vEdic people have been absorbed into the practices of druhyus / Druids.

The thing I don't particularly like is this:

http://indianculturalforum.in/2017/12/2 ... somok-roy/

Now she says there were no nation states - but she was peddling invasion theories before. She is using Marxist method of inquiry - which is not science.
Worse it did not even predict the Post modern wave or the Germany during Nazi era! Frankfurt school now tries to resuscitate the theory using aestheticization of power and Sanskrit being the cause of it.

Marxism is the steward of diversities - the processor into which the natives are fed as data! What a load of crock!! She critiques binaries - but forgets that it is all the Abrahamic tradition followed by Marxism that is constructed on Binaries. The current Hindutva based on a single book Ram Charitmanas is a consequential Binary.

Rationality is being reduced to axiomatic consistency. Einstein built nice consistent theories using symmetry, beauty and consistency , the rest of the scientific community simply ignored him. He was a loner in Princeton.

[shankarank]

So here is a binary Secular-religious thrown by Marxists in their fight with various forces in the colonial period.

http://indianculturalforum.in/2017/10/1 ... ttacharya/

As the post itself explains - who has the problem? This binary - where even the title is somewhat subversive - has been imposed onto everything here.

There is a great bending over backwards effort to accommodate the dogmas of the religions and pamper their identity mindset that is not based on civilizational identity like Western, American, European, African but something insidious.

That's right - we should de-recognize them as civilizations as they de-recognized us as a religion anyways!

The dance is not secular - as it is sacred. It is not religious as it goes through introspection every generation between teacher and student. Everything else is a cultural expectation based on what the people involved want!

The Japanese Odissi dancer knows this innately - but the Indian Left has used this to pamper the clerics and the church and subvert everything.

Some people read English with Dictionary , as they do with Sanskrit also.

As I pointed out elsewhere : if you get educated in English medium as a first generation , you tell your parents they don't know English. That is how much nitwit, people are.

[harimau]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely , Lokamanya Tilak was not an illiterate bigot,
The Arctic Home in the Vedas is a history book on the origin of Aryanic People by Bal Gangadhar Tilak, a mathematician turned astronomer, historian, journalist, philosopher and political leader of India. It propounded the theory that the North Pole was the original home of Aryans during the pre-glacial period which they had to leave due to the ice deluge around 8000 B.C. and had to migrate to the Northern parts of European and Asia in search of lands for new settlements. In support to his theory, Tilak presented certain Vedic hymns, Avestic passages, Vedic chronology and Vedic calendars.....

My nephew loves this book.

According to him, since the sun is hanging around the North Pole for 6 months at a time, there was only one sunrise and one has to do sandhya vandanam only once a year. The rest of the time was spent in drinking soma liquor.

He has put that into practice!

I can't say that I disagree with him. The whole idea is so agreeable!

[sankark]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely , Lokamanya Tilak was not an illiterate bigot,
The Arctic Home in the Vedas is a history book on the origin of Aryanic People by Bal Gangadhar Tilak, a mathematician turned astronomer, historian, journalist, philosopher and political leader of India. It propounded the theory that the North Pole was the original home of Aryans during the pre-glacial period which they had to leave due to the ice deluge around 8000 B.C. and had to migrate to the Northern parts of European and Asia in search of lands for new settlements. In support to his theory, Tilak presented certain Vedic hymns, Avestic passages, Vedic chronology and Vedic calendars.....

My nephew loves this book.

According to him, since the sun is hanging around the North Pole for 6 months at a time, there was only one sunrise and one has to do sandhya vandanam only once a year. The rest of the time was spent in drinking soma liquor.

He has put that into practice!

I can't say that I disagree with him. The whole idea is so agreeable!

harimau, what an injustice! Twice at least - prAdha and sAyam - right? Am discounting mAdhyAhnikam for now.

[shankarank]

harimau!! , the path to experiencing and knowing the conscious is riddled with all kinds of experimentation under the sun, or around the sun or sun going around . Proves that there was No Garden!

[Sachi_R]

I have the greatest respect for Tilak. But
Even Harimau's nephew will face the freezing of round objects at the North Pole.
Even polar bears, who hibernate 6 months a year (a bit like NRI outside of the Season) are starving to death at the North Pole due to scarcity of seal meat, you can imagine what Aryans would be doing.
And by doing too much Agnihotram, they would have started the process we now call global warming.

What Soma juice. You need to make it in the fertile regions of lower Himalayas.

Nephew should visit a good place on the Bangalore Madras Highway. Lots of Soma juice round the year.

[shankarank]

And he may catch a Carnatic number as well there !

[shankarank]

Now that the mug rasam season is over - how is the next "smug" rasam season coming? I mean the nATya kala conference!

[shankarank]

Wow - immersion!! It is a bucket or a tub full! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnJvpBNgGuI

[Sachi_R]

The moment I clicked your link, I saw a very fat Devdutt (lots of TV moolah). It would take a Michigan lake to immerse him. But well worth a thought.

[shankarank]

Or it could be a pool in the backyard of his brain mom - Wendy's pool - she is in Chicago! If pool is not sufficient , lake is the next step! All of his speech is Wendy's child syndrome!

As he said she is the crude ( and she delivers raw to her audience across America!) and he refines it for our (Indian) consumption. Without crude he cannot do the refinement. We need to open up more areas for drilling and fracking here in America.

Our NRI(s) are just too eager to fund this as well with their capital - feeding the crocodiles:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/ ... y-sanskrit

But those consuming this kool-aid would not know that the doyens of Dravidian politics would with impish glee write as to what sort of stories the upanyaskas actually narrate! So before delivering this kool-aid to us , the convener should ask her family members to reach out to the alliance partners!

The current rhetorician who talks from that movement actually was more decent - Rig-vEda he said is nice poetry, but asks for rains and food - nothing too profound!

Devdutt-Myth tries the Mohini trick on twiteratti to take the amRtam to his devas! We are supposed to shut up!

[shankarank]

In support to his theory, Tilak presented certain Vedic hymns, Avestic passages, Vedic chronology and Vedic calendars with interpretations of the contents in detail.

There is now an effort to read Indus script in a metallurgical context. sOma yAgna describes iron smelting is what this researcher is upto.

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2018/ ... -daya.html

[RSR]

https://www.quora.com/What-were-3-ways- ... dic-people

------------
some excerpts.->"By the time Vedic people crossed Mittani, down from the Ural steppes, IVC had almost at the tail end of its presence in the Indus Valley further down south.The Mittani tablets in cuneiform script in proto Sanskrit as well as Avestan dated to about 1300 BC, attest to this.It was all about horses and horse training with Vedic Aryans.

And cow was never glorified in IVC. The name of a seal depicting a person sitting in a particular posture had been termed as a Pasupathy seal, by early zealots.(RSR...adds.. pasu does not mean here 'cow. but animals )

This is akin to naming the Ashoka time scripts as Brahmi scripts. In fact Indo Aryan Sanskrit never had a script of its own, and must have been named as Dravidian script!
--Number two will be the burial practices. Aryans cremated their dead. The IVC people buried their dead. We still have evidences of human remains and genetic evidences have never proved an Aryan identity to the IVC people.
Third will be the urban planning and water management engineering expertise of IVC civilization.The Aryans were nomads and wanderers, and their dress code was totally different. IVC people used fine cotton, whereas Aryans used, skins, hides and wool..here are glaring differences like the Black and Red pottery of the IVC and Painted Grey Ware of Aryans.

The IVC people belong the Indian Subcontinent and they are much more ancient than the Vedic Aryans. Vedic Aryans who had migrated down the Ural steppes share their early history with Avestan and Iranians. Vedic Ayrans and Iranians of yore are from the same root.
=============
Long back, I read a good book titled 'Arya Tarangini.'. What I liked in the book was its narration of so many aryan
'sanskritic' states in the middle-east and perpetual conflict between the already existing states there and the aryan migration from central asia. .. It was very informative and intersting read. Mr.Saachi_R may find it useful.

Vedic Aryans have their own unique history of oral and literary traditions, never substantiated by any Archaeological evidences.

IVC people were an earlier civilization of the Bronze age Indian Sub Continent, whereas the Vedic Aryan people are later day Iron age migrants from far off lands."
----

[shankarank]

Here is the rejoinder to Mittani dating etc.

https://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2017 ... laced.html

[Sachi_R]

I am amazed that so many scholars with more papers under their name than a self-respecting paper weight in a government office busy themselves with such recycled tripe year after year only to be quoted and posted in blogs and forums in utter desecration of all truth.

I am personally privy to the original wisdom.

Aryans lived first on the South pole. Since it was a bit cold there they needed a stiff drink and penguin urine would no longer suffice. So they built a ship, moved up to a lively place where nice hot drinks grew on trees. That was Australia. If you study the etymology carefully, it translates to modern English and Tamil as Extra Illeya?
Any self-respecting Indologist knows that the sacred direction to move on is the North. Rama suffered badly by moving south. Much like an Anil Ambani stock.

The Aryans needed now some hot food. They travelled further to Sri Lanka for some Vindaloo.

Once they built the Rama Setu (yes they even collected Toll long before Rama ventured on it), they entered a large food basket or a basket case called Dravidia. Actually etymologically it means The India.

After that they had a lot of fun. The latest evidence for it is the IPL.

Whistle Podu was their original war cry.

[shankarank]

With humor interlude for attention span relief - lets continue the main story line on the paper-weighters!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Grey_Ware_culture

Recently, the University of Cambridge and Banaras Hindu University excavated at Alamgirpur near Delhi, where sample OxA-21882 showed a calibrated radiocarbon dating from 2136 BC to 1948 BCE for PGW levels, overlapping Mature Harappan phase at the site, suggesting PGW early phases are much older than previously thought.[22] Confirmation of this early PGW came when a team of the Archaeological Survey of India led by B.R. Mani and Vinay Kumar Gupta collected charcoal samples from Gosna, a site 6 km east of Mathura across the Yamuna river where two radiocarbon dates from the PGW deposit came out to be 2160 BCE and 2170 BCE.[23]

And here is the full reference cited:

https://www.academia.edu/7025503/Early_ ... y_N._Delhi

[RSR]

As I understand... 1) It so happens that the middle-east ( present day.. Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, and Iran , and Indus valley (present day, Pakisthan) have been acknowledged as the earliest major civilizations. namely Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Indus valley civilizations. The dates would be around 3500 BC. For want of a better name, we can call them Dravidian civilization. .Idol worship, sacrifice to propitiate the many gods and goddesses, and temple culture and priestly class , can be said to be distinct features. Sun and Moon worship also was prevalent. as belief in astrology and objects of worship in Iraq. ( Mesopotamia).. Kosambi states that the earliest was in Palestine area. (7000 BC). . We have seen pictures of Durga with Lion. Such an imagery exists in Sumeria also. A.C.DAS suggests that Central Iraq ( Chaldea) is the Chozha kingdom , Northern Iraq and Syria ( Assyria).
was Chera kingdom. ( Nebuchadnezer . ) and the Southern Iraq ( Sumerian) was Pandyan kingdom. To complete the picture, there was a famous Elamite civilization also with capital at Susa. ( soosai?). . Nilakanta Sastry finds Trimalai somewhere near northern Turkey, the only place which comes closest to Tamil. We all know, that the Swat valley has a population speaking 'dravidian' language. It is in north Pakisthan-Afganisthan area. ( of Malala fame).
https://archive.org/details/AHistoryOfSouthIndiaPDF
That the Aryans came from some place in North-Central Asia , is the opinion of great many famous historians and Linguists. . Edward Jones among them, the founder of Royal Asiatic Society. and that Sanskrit, Greek and Latin had a common language root also has been accepted. It is fallacious to limit the migration, conflicts, intermingling and assimilation of the ideas and practices of these three famous 'Southern Civilizations' by the immigrants from Central Asia. it extended from Caspian sea down wards into the Middle-East...
Let us not confuse Aryans with Brahmins. It is quite possible that the brahmins were the original priestly class of IVC, and all kshathriyas and Vis ( free peasants) were the incoming Aryan groups through the North western passes. Even in Buddhist times, Cholas were known as Horse people. and 'munkudumi's ( no insult meant). North Indian historians ( pre-1947) have clearly cited reference to Sibi. and even given the routes of migration of the tamil kings from North india to Far south.

"James Fergusson connects the Oddiyana country with the Kamboja of the Hindu texts.[20] Indeed, the territories ofKunar, Oddiyana, Swat and Varanaos had been the notable habitats of the Asvaka Kambojas since remote antiquity. The Asvakas were cattle breeders and horse folk and had earned the epithet of Asvakas due to their intimate connections with the Asvas ("horses"). The Sivis, as described by Alexander's historians, "were a shaved-headed people, worshipers of god Shiva, wore clothes made from animal skins, and were warlike people who fought with the clubs...most of these are also the salient characteristics of the ancient Kambojas".
---------------------------------------------------------------
The southerly movement of the Sivis is also evidenced from their other settlement called Usinara near Yamuna, ruled by Sivi king called Usinara.[31] Sivis also are attested to have one settlement in Sind, another one in Madhyamika (Tambavati Nagri) near Chittore (in Rajputana) and yet another one on the Dasa Kumara-chrita on the banks of the Kaveri in southern India (Karnataka/Tamil Nadu).[32

http://rsramaswamy.blogspot.in/2013/04/ ... mboja.html

For vaishnavaites, the interesting connection is from the banks of Yamuna, Mathsya and Surasena janapadjams , through Rajasthan and Gujarath and Dwaraka, to Madhurai in Pandyan kingdom.

[shankarank]

"Mr. Sastry did not speak English as an Englishman would do. But he spoke it as it ought to be spoken."[/color][/b]
Rt. Hon’ble Srinivas Sastry’s speeches took the English men by storm: They listened to his speeches in rapt attention. Under his portrait in Guild Hall of London, the following lines were written:

‘Here is an Indian who taught English to English men!
http://www.yabaluri.org/Web%20(1978%20- ... ul2004.htm

From "The Battle for Sanskrit" By Rajiv Malhotra

A marble frieze located in the chapel of University College, Oxford, reproduced on the cover of the book, shows him sitting on a chair, ..
while three pandits are seated at his feet, wearing traditional clothing... The inscription below hails Jones as the man who 'formed a digest of Hindu and Mohammedan laws' .. Contrary to what really happened - Sir Jones who sat at the feet (figuratively) ...
.........
The monument conveys the impression of Jones as 'law-giver' .. the agenda was to claim to have 'discovered' the laws by which Hindus ought to be governed..

https://rajivmalhotra.com/books/the-bat ... to-engage/

I have not read even that book fully, because I know from experience how things have panned out in the Dravidian politics and the street rhetoric. You should know as well. Instead you are quoting scholars like D D Kosambi who were funded by colonial loot ( cannot even use the word Capitalist here!) using Marxist method! What a load of crock!! There was never an equal society anywhere and never will be - it is utopia. The ideas these rationalists - credit the West for - are from gross inequalities inflicted. This is sick!! Reading loses it's meaning!

But for Indian Army's participation in WW2 , and a parallel subversive effort by Netaji Subash Chandrabose, we will be teaching Englishmen how they ought to speak English. The latter is part of Grandpa myths (like how British ran the country so well!) communicated to every post-udyOgam generation Indian child, that for me was busted by an English teacher in Madura College - yes he did point out how our Grandpas talked!

Yeah we all ought to grace the so called Arts colleges , while waiting for Engineering Entrance results and the admission!!

[shankarank]

So according to you if the Priestly class was there in IVC, it only appropriated the vEdic liturgy from horse riding nomads for rituals, like how Brahmins have appropriated music from the previous custodians. So there is a class that is a perennial appropriator.

But truth is for ages, Brahmins stuck to their vocation and it was not until they became clerks in the British government that they even learnt these traits!

[shankarank]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ate-change

Probably the only way Ganga and Yamuna can be saved !! Hopefully they don't start flowing towards China!

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2018 ... -rest.html

[RSR]

https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion ... s-sanskrit

[shankarank]

Tony Joseph has been going from Jaunt to Jaunt to rush with his interpretations for Months now. His agenda is to show that all of us are migrants. Fine, the core culture has respected, from what they would call sub-altern, all the way up to differences at the top. His purported faith has not.

The triangular cluster plot shows greater affinity of some people to central Asian gene flow apparently. But all of them are closer to Indus periphery.

Rig Veda has recorded mighty sarasvati as a river when it has dried up by the time. So if proto-Aryan came in via these people at a later stage, it recorded the knowledge of the then host culture. When Avesta is full of "h" prefixes, vEdic language used "s" and to me that is a distinct marker of a language separation.

In addition there are astronomical observations of Arundhati / VaSiSTa of Mahabharata war that has been shown dating back to 5000+ BC.

The paper will be reviewed and counter research and questions will be raised.

I also hear that now we have 8000 Indus seals, one in a tin ingot in a ship wreck in Haifa Israel. The seals are also indicating they are metal works catalogue. So it was a sea faring civilization as well. And it did not have a language?

There must have been a proto Indian language since Dravidian also developed later.

[shankarank]

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2018/ ... estan.html