Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
shankarank
Posts: 4067
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 14:12 It is a free country. Everyone is welcome to write what they feel like.
When Sri Ravikiran writes in the forum , we all listen. A member who has done much research argues with him. Wonderful. We don't argue. Same goes when Dr Narmadha , or "mridangam" writes.

But yet I argue with T.M Krishna. My reasoning. He has gone to forums treating himself as equal to them ( Journalists or whoever!). An artiste in our tradition - has Panditya - is not qual to anybody and should not go into forums where he is an equal to the other! He/She cannot put our tradition in a lower or equal status , with the knowledge of any other system - especially the modern intellectualism.

But if he/she does - it is fair game to argue with him or her.

Ours is a sadas of Panditas and pAmaras - un-equals and we cannot give up that notion! Hence it is not a congregation. That includes sampradaya bhajans as well.

Hearing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4o0WJ6xK30 - first time I felt something genuine in her - respect for her - when I heard all her life experience. Much more so than, when she went as an equal to the Rookie MA Secretary in the Hindu Lit festival. She is going in front of Panditas with much trepidation and tries to put in front of them some new things she has brought and all the challenges. She puts "Madras" the music community in a higher pedestal!

But I felt I need to argue with her point that by sticking to gamakas , some how she stuck to tradition with no compromise - but not other aspects. I posted links and youtube videos from other Panditas, which to me challenges that notion.

I am also surprised that, with the training from Stalwarts, she is not considering viSrAnti as a core aspect of this musical tradition. "pApa sanga vidhara" : here https://youtu.be/1Zd-IUfjeiU?t=119, she can stand there for 10 avaRtas, executing various shades of nATTai , including a svaraksha round as well: "pa(lower) , pa (middle) , sa (higher) nga viDhara", If only she thought about slowing down her rendition. That , if she took the idea of laya from the Bhajana sampradAya into it. The art of executing in longs and shorts along with an offset.

People have taken from the sadas of Bhajana sampradaya, ideas, into the sadas of sangItam refining it to the needs of sangItam!

But nevertheless, my respect for her went up certainly after watching the Sruti presentation! I had always felt she was sometimes too opportunistic and expedient as an artiste!

But if she is less of an art musician and more of a religious one ( wrong characterization - unfortunate!) , she has indeed proved false the notion that somehow religiosity has resulted in exclusivity. She has brought in scores of people to listen - so much that her concert will look like an alien place for me!

vijay.siddharth
Posts: 358
Joined: 14 May 2017, 13:08

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by vijay.siddharth »

@ShankaranK-

Having attended her Music Academy concert this season, I can confirm that her concerts attract a lot of non-Indians as well. In the row I sat (ground floor, first row of the rear section), the number of non-Indians rivalled the number of Indians by quite a bit - and not all of them came because they were married to Indians!! If she is able to make Sampradaya Sangeetham appeal to a wide cross-section of people across the world (and not just India, not just South India, not just Madras, and not just Mylapore/Mamapore), then power to her!

To quote Deng Xiaoping - 'It does not matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches the rat!'

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by sureshvv »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 08:33 To quote Deng Xiaoping - 'It does not matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches the rat!'
What about the color of the rat? :D

arasi
Posts: 16789
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by arasi »

:)
Or, is it more like a mouse? I mean, muse...
Last edited by arasi on 22 Feb 2018, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
Posts: 9383
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by Nick H »

About the topic: I have heard that plain song and that old chanting is "modal," and I have heard it said that raga music is also "modal." Listening to snippets from the mentioned CD suggests that, whatever the word, the chants may indeed be closer to CM than modern western music would be. Or... is it just a clever fusion? I have no idea, just a passing interest. I listened to a minute or three and went on my way: the music itself did not appeal to me.

About Aruna filling concert halls: never mind the foreigners, she fills concert halls with Indians who may not attend other concerts. Last timme I saw her, there was not a foreigner in sight. (OK, there was one ;) ) Perhaps many of those people won't go to other concerts, but if she sows the seed of interest in a small percentage, then that is good. And, anyway, I don't deny the rights of people who like Aruna Sairam to like Aruna Sairam. There are all kinds of music in the world, and many kinds of them do not appeal to me. I was only there because I was taking a foreigner (Oh yes, two foreigners then, but she was a Brit of South-Asian origin: she would not have stood out in the crowd)

arasi
Posts: 16789
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by arasi »

Nick says: if she sows the seed of interest in a small percentage, then that is good.
Indeed.Good for CM in not fading away into antiquity. Also, she seems like a person who is likeable, though to a small percentage of music lovers her music is unappetizing.

shankarank
Posts: 4067
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by shankarank »

vijay.siddharth wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 08:33 @ShankaranK-

Having attended her Music Academy concert this season, I can confirm that her concerts attract a lot of non-Indians as well.
Nick H wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 13:10 About Aruna filling concert halls: never mind the foreigners, she fills concert halls with Indians who may not attend other concerts. Last timme I saw her, there was not a foreigner in sight.
OK lets explore some colors. When I mentioned her concert would look Alien to me, I would typically imagine:

may be somebody like my Mom,

or my tone deaf Dad - He is too old and not attending - So Aruna doesn't have a chance to get him anymore

or My Wife ;)

or my cousin sisters ( whom I have taken to Kalarasana to listen to TVS , MSG, KRM and Harishankar) - nalla seTTu is all they could say and I could never have much of any conversation with them about some of the things I enjoyed :twisted: and they wouldn't go there by themselves ever after.

or my Ex-Boss - poor guy - He had to listen to a Dallas Music Pramuka on how bad an idea it was for Dallas to host Aruna over a lunch we had together - he himself was eagerly looking forward to the event! :cry:

or a co-worker - who came to me and said - one of his relatives back in India were looking out for their daughter and there came this guy - it seems his was deeply interested in Carnatic music - and they were all scared!! ( sankark! sound scares you now !!). Sacred/scared - bhaya bhakti :lol:

or any number of my relatives - who would likely be caught by Aruna :lol:

When I say my kind of rasikatvam I would imagine:

A TNS student ( although a Brahmin I met him only because he worked at the same place)
A Telugu Guy ( though a Brahmin - there is no rat's chance that I could have talked to him/struck a conversation unless Music was the common interest)

A senor who was 33 years older ( what the hell I am doing hanging out with such oldies!) - Tanjore - could speak Tamizh - but Marathi mother tongue

A Disciple of the Stock MSS violinist - from KanDadEVI - who passed away recently. He in the Sax concert of the son of my Ex-Boss (cited in the above list) , as I was there to do the tALa - when I asked him about C.S Murugabhoopathy - simply said they were all stalwarts - but music has become too metallic nowadays - referring to declining tonality :!: :idea:

A Kalaimani visiting Nadasvaram Artiste for the temple Brahmotsavam - The temple Board chairman - a MiShra from U.P - was curious about his back ground! I was doing tALam for them , since no tALam/Jalra guy could be flown over with them!

May be Nick Haynes :D , if not John Higgins :lol:

But neither list would be diverse enough for liberals - who have completely lost their sense and making people lose their sense as well :evil:

Nick H
Posts: 9383
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by Nick H »

I have been saying for years that Aruna might bring people into carnatic music that would otherwise not come, but, maybe.... she just brings in the people who go to her concerts.

Fair enough: I'm not keen, but she is far from the top of my not-attend list, and not even on my won't-attend list.

Let those who enjoy....

arasi
Posts: 16789
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by arasi »

Nick,
Consider also Sudha, Jesudas, Unnikrishnan alongside. Further on, Ra-gA and Sanjay too because of their appealing quality. I do feel that tastes in CM won't stay compartmentalized in the future. The crossing of the boundaries would happen more. Thanks also to MMU and some other programs,people are exposed to CM--while changing channels, hearing some music in temples, going to a bhajan, listening to Visaka Hari?
Just as the purists in CM who approve only prime quality isai, there are those at the other end of the spectrum who desist CM.
Yet, how many countless people love to listen to MS! Bhakthi, her voice, bhAvam, what else--with their having absolutely no musical background!
The internet is bringing in more of the uninitiated into listening to some serious music. Tamizh songs, even purely classical ones attract some.
Parents these days seek music and bharathanatyam training for their kids as accomplishments. They may not be musical or come from a music-nurturing family at all!
As you browse the internet, you see how some CM oriented videos are immensely popular (don't compare the number with silly pet acts and viral ones of course :()
The times are changing, I hope...

Nick H
Posts: 9383
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by Nick H »

Indeed. bharathanatyam cat videos?

In fact, my cat is getting ready for his first concert. He is a student of ...well, no, better I keep this as an at-home-only joke.

:lol: :twisted: :lol:

uday_shankar
Posts: 1467
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:37

Re: Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

Post by uday_shankar »

Nick H wrote: 23 Feb 2018, 19:11In fact, my cat is getting ready for his first
There have been big cats in the dogged purrrsuit of CM - Tiger Varadachariar for example.

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