Aruna Mami and Gregorian Chants

[Nick H]

என்னாங்க மியூஸிக்கு நோட்டுல மட்டுந்தான் இருக்குதா?? இங்கிலிஷ்ல சொன்னா புர்லன்றிங்க! தமிழ்லதான் சொல்லி பாப்போம்! எத்தனை தடவை சொல்லணும் ?

Please read the forum rules.

[Nick H]

https://www.eventjini.com/heavenandearth

Greg-O-Ian?

[shankarank]

@26 -> The better half helped you out already? She would understand it in her bones won't she?

அட புதுசா ஒண்ணும் இல்ல! அங்க பேசுனதுதான்! இன்னும் நிறைய காலம் என்று சொன்னதுபோல்!

Nothing new Nick. Same thing we have been talking all along, just like we talked first time , I said it will be for a long time

மவனே நீங்க டீ எம் கிருஷ்ணாவையும் , அந்த மாளிகை (மால்) கடைக்காரர் ஒருத்தர் அவர் பேரென்ன பாணி காரு பாணி காருன்னு சொல்லிக்கிட்டிருப்பாரே , ஸ்பென்சர் வேணுகோபால் மற்றும் கோபாலக்ருஷ்ண காந்தி இவரையும் ஒரு மிருதங்க ஆர்ட்டெரி (Artery) துவக்கி மிருதங்கம் இசைதான்ன்னு ஒத்துக்க வெச்சு பேச சொல்லுங்கைய்யா! அப்புறம் அருணா சாயீராம் என்ன ஒங்க இசையும் கர்நாடக இசைன்னு ஒத்துக்கறேன்யா!

Just get TMK, that connoisseur with a Mall name, who keeps raving about pANI garu all the time, yeah Spencer Venugopal , Gopal Gandhi et. al. into a Mridanga artery inaugural and have them accept Mridangam is music, then what, not just your favorite Aruna Sairam, even your music will be CM for me from then on. Many Hindu gurus are fond of saying, all other religions are but aspects of what prevails here, likewise every music is an aspect of what prevails here in India. We are the complete melodic system goes the wisdom

I will open a thread calling for sangIta kalanidhi for Aruna myself!!

[shankarank]

that connoisseur with a Mall name, who keeps raving about pANI garu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIOYBCBjgh8

They quoted pANi Garu not just for establishing Mridangam is not music, but sAhitya is not so sacrosanct as well . And this is cited in that very book release video comments above:

Mulugu neelotpal
3 years ago

I agree sir
the grammatical aspect of the language comes to the fore here the GUNA SANDHI connects the two words into one TENELU OLUKU as TENELOLUKU but the great musicologist maestro PROF SRIPADA PINAKAPANI GARU also held the same view that sahitya should be split as 'paluku palukulaku tene loluku for the roopakam to set in .he used to hold a view that if one wants to savour the sahitya why don't they sit at home and read a commentary on tyagarajaswamy's sahitya acumen why do they come to listen to a sangeeta kutcheri where they find faults with the splitting of the syllables AS A TORCH BEARER OF THE TANJAVUR BANI WHICH WAS TAUGHT TO HIM BY THE LATE RANGARAMANUJA IYENGARVAL,he had clear view about things related to kriti singing,though I beg to differ from the GURU of legends like VOLETI,NEDUNURI,MALLADI BROTHERS that sahitya is secondary in a katcheri I respect your deep interest in the clear enunciation of lyrics my salutations to you as an esteemed, fortunate disciple of the GREAT TKG SIR
regards

[Nick H]

@26 -> The better half helped you out already?

Sure, she usually does: a vital resource given my abject failure, not just now, but dating back to school days, to learn another language. She is away grand-mothering.

My ignorance is not the issue.... although I suspect you of taking advantage of it. I am not the only non-Tamil reader on the forum; the rules are not there just for sake of dunces like me. So kindly obey them. Unless you are one of those leftie anarchists, of course!

[shankarank]

Do I have to be classified into some "-ist" just because I do the same to others? They are clearly "-ists" of some sort , although they want to appear like regular udyOgastar (employed/retired), grihastar (family men), mylaporAr(mylaporian).

I don't have to take advantage of your ignorance as there have been no case of me bad mouthing you ever, so it is not one of those dEsi water cooler vernacular talk in America that may make fun of others who don't understand - including people from other Indian states. But do make an effort with your better half to get a sense of what I wrote, since I cannot say all of that in English. You will relish it I am sure

Back to the digression I started, the tEnelu can really be paused on samam, and the split phrase "oluku" can be started at various places in rUpakam to reach eDuppu (take off point) with "mATalADu" , giving out sangatIs if only one used their mind - as most have that skill! The ornamentation at the end of mATalAdu can be 3 or 5 to hit the 2 offset eDuppu, depending on how laku was vocalized and how much is left for oluku mATAlADu. Interesting math-y splits are possible for those inclined to do so. oluku can start @ 2 offset to honor prAsa, then 3 offset, on the second beat (4) , and even @ 5 mAtras - and the last one results in 3 mAtra ending on mATalADu.

So language can be honored, by actually creating art, if only syllable positioning is art by itself!!

[shankarank]

With all the upbringing she had (rewind back!) - she has vibrato - which makes it look artificial.

https://youtu.be/G2LfJLDinqc?t=895

That overshadows any gamaka that she is trying to put out. No pregnant pauses. No use of silent melodies. No sensitivity. Looks like she is never born with ability to modulate. Does Anandabhairavi, a rakti raga, a ghana rAga, need this much specter of sound making? AkAram loses its purpose.

Only a somewhat formulaic nominal change into this: https://youtu.be/G2LfJLDinqc?t=985, after some advice!

And with so much exposure to verses, there is no awareness of the subtlety of syllabic intervals! This is a dumb down music in all dimensions.

If you want a concrete example for contrast:

https://youtu.be/G2LfJLDinqc?t=1290

https://youtu.be/TVcZvlwOBbc?t=115 - he is doing a viruttam with tAlAm, like they do tAnam with tALam - even the latter is easier! Look how he brings out the ascension of steps!! (paDiyAye, paDiyAye).

So I want to ask: The Bhajanai Bhagavatar has no sense of art? he is purely evoking religious feelings???!!! Religious intent!!. And Aruna is an art musician??

Or is it that my upbringing has biased me to expect a syllabic beauty in renditions??? Brahminical?? Did'nt she choose to perform to Brahminical Audiences anyways?

All her upbringing is all devotional , but she has not paid attention to this ever? How many other artistes are there from Bombay??

But melodic beauty and aesthetics is somehow universal. And lakshana(grammar), since it can be prescribed in formal terms is somehow universal as well - because it can be written down!!

[shankarank]

Listened to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4o0WJ6xK30

She describes all the cherished moments of her learning , all of which has good parts, she still remembers the imbibing of Bhajana sampradAya etc.

Now this part:

https://youtu.be/h4o0WJ6xK30?t=2967

She has not compromised by not flattening the gamakas, but she has flattened the sAhitya into lyrics and removed all chandas from it. Chandam is the bed rock of Arunagirinathar. Want some taste of it from the path shown by leading lights? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRFdbCDK1jc

So only Gamaka fulfills the Carnatic Idiom huh?

And on to her Bhajans

https://youtu.be/1Zd-IUfjeiU?t=119

pApa sanga vidhAra will be sung split as in a jati with 2 offset: ,,tAm tAm tAm tAm, tadhImtAm . As a musician she must have observed this , but does not put to use. This is how 3 over 4 begins - considering the flow as 4ish in a khanDa cApu. Swami Haridas Giri sings this!

And why you have so much percussionists for this, especially tabla and the video shows you signalling to the percussionists to slow down!

You see Aruna , even dance Mridangists had to play for Bhajan - and if rewound this dance Mridangist of Padma fame will mention his father was a Bhagavatar too.
https://youtu.be/H866Q9aIwyw?t=379

But , you see he also says Chennaidom (Dance / music - both) once looked down upon Bhajan Mridangists! Then musicians looked down upon Dance mridangists.

https://youtu.be/H866Q9aIwyw?t=424

He had to lie to Adyar Lakshmanan on his first ever entry into his house - that he has never played to a tOdaya mangalam! He also mentions that tyAgaraja would not have been angry with the likes of him - for playing for dance - because they really enjoy the bhava and play!

tyAgaraja though has explicitly sung nI bhajana gAna rasikula! Yeah most musicians ( or I don't know dancers? ) don't know the meaning yeah - so they looked down upon Bhajan mridangists!

I see that you have started singing to Dancers too now - hope your payyada is inspiring to dancers and dance viewers!

But on the way don't forget that you are yet to emancipate the honor of Mridangists - first that sense should get into you when you sing Bhajans at least - forget them for a moment. It does not matter you sing with or without them - I need to see it hear it OK?

Of course when you sing your professional music Gamaka comes to the rescue!!!

[shankarank]

All the more reason Aruna!!

https://twitter.com/arunasays/status/965503314774302720

Common go for it. I am asking as a layman rasika!! They won't be able to say it.. Since they all visited your house! They will confer award after award on you. I am asking for very little!

You have a large following - feed their bones, nerves and muscle - they have been waiting. So many people here castigate you for singing Abhang! Now remove this one Bhang!

Your golden opportunity! Begin your next MA concert , with tOdaya mangaLam and execute what I asked for - very simple!! Let the hall hear it!

[shankarank]

You see Aruna this is the kind of Anthropological review you elicited - from a person trained in Mridangam - who would put aside his true knowledge , paint himself into a world citizen with no identities or roots, and mouth platitudes that he heard in the citadel, that you need to be like Ramnad or whatever!

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26109&hilit=Aruna+Sairam#p289111

I also strongly feel that "art" music shares very little with congregational music; even the shared origin theory is a bit dubious. There is a way to present the bhakti bhavam, the groove and the trance-like quality of CM in a way that is accessible to regular folk. Aruna's strategy for achieving this is not my cup of tea. I just feel that she could do so much more with her talent. ...

The last time I heard her live was in the mid 1980s in the afternoon slot at the Music Academy. I remember my parents commenting on how much her sahana sounded like Ramnad Krishnan and about the high-quality Dhanammal school sangatis that she had internalized in her kriti presentations. It is very sad to see that she has given a lot of that up to be where she is today. And she absolutely didn't have to...

Congregational music!! All the vidvans including Needamangalam Bhagavatar came to your house - in a way no different from tyAgarAja taking uncha vriddhi! Just a mode difference. May be they are not as great as tyAgarAja , but they did bring some great music. Or like how Needamangalam Bhagavathar says ( I remember very few) : adhughari Aayee vidhur ghar pAvana. Your Mom had a personal deity and lived true to that, she did not need any sermons! And she fed all of them!

Nothing like a congregational place, where they are not sure which music fits their doctrines? Some set of people have evolved some doctrines after debate. Well may be Music Academy is like that!! They have well defined tradition which is the four lines within which you have to shoot.

The Courts where Courtesans evolved some great music - thing of the past isn't it? Not quite like a congregation!

It seems, you just miss some core aspects in some dimensions, that will probably change the opinion of posters like Mahavishnu, who are blindly mapping what they are taught in regular school, thinking what they learnt in Mridangam class is just some methods. And things like what is sung in tODaya mangaLam is arbitrary tradition, incidental, or even better Entertainment may be!

This how much conceited that place has become, thanks to our education and opinion leaders who quote from vague literature or even Shakespeare to make their point. And you seek all the awards from there. Fine, but show them true music!

அவர் கற்ற மிருதங்கம் பொய் , படித்த மேலை படிப்பு மெய் !
What he played is false, what he learnt in school is the truth!!

It has to be countered:

நீங்கள் இவ்வளவு நாள் பாடியது பொய் ! இப்போ பாடப்போவது மெய்!
What you sang so far is no good, what you are on to do now is the real one!

After this , it is easy. You can bring Dominique Vellard's vocalizations and make it into a metrical setting like tODaya MangaLam , it will sound just like our music - No gamakas needed.

[shankarank]

I also strongly feel that "art" music shares very little with congregational music; even the shared origin theory is a bit dubious.

Shared origin???, Origin??!!! dubious???

Heard sound is sacred!! ApaurushEya - Author not known would be the right thing to say!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsDD_I8gago And is that anything like a Congregation? Did they have rehearsals?

Palghat Ramachandra Iyer endowment it seems was created by Sri Ravikiran this year in MA. It has taken this long!

[sankark]

I also strongly feel that "art" music shares very little with congregational music; even the shared origin theory is a bit dubious.

Heard sound is sacred!!

shankarank, I know you are trying to communicate something, though it is beyond my grasp.

On a lighter note, sound may be scared now

[shankarank]

அட போங்கப்பா. புரிய வேண்டியவங்களுக்கு புரிஞ்சா போதும் . உங்களுக்கு புரிய வேண்டிய நேரத்திலே புரிஞ்சா போதும்!

Alright just leave this. Its enough if it gets understood by people who need to know. And its enough if you understand when you need to!

[mahavishnu]

Shankarank: I have absolutely NO desire to interact with you whatsoever. Please do not bait me with quoting my posts from several years ago. I have stopped posting here, mostly because of people like you.

I think you have singlehandedly destroyed the character of rasikas.org with your long and meaningless posts largely written to entertain yourself while pushing some bizarre conspiracy theory.

And please do not respond to this. I am not listening.

[shankarank]

Good. I was using Mahavishnu's post to talk to everybody else who may be listening!

[arasi]

Good. I am also using mahavishnu's post to pose this question. The connectivity which many of us still feel--something which has evolved in the course of years of our interacting--why is it being tested nowadays? Pundits and laymen (women) have communicated with each other with ease, however different their points of view.Humor plays a part in it too, all with goodwill as its base. Rasikas.org is not an analyst's couch--as if we are here to speak our mind's cares out to a specialist. Most things we share here are about how we appreciate music and other arts. Some bring their expertise to share, and others, to learn from them.
An exchange it is for sure, enrichment its ideal,certainly. Rasikas.org doesn't have to become cynical or demeaning for whatever reason. Mahavishnu, we consider to be an asset here and feel bad when he cannot chime in more often due to his commitments.
It now seems that he has other reasons too, and yes, most of us do at times feel the negativity that touches us...
Rajesh, or any kind soul please bring the 10th Anniversary poem--just to check how much we have changed or not.Please don't call me sentimental. If you asked me, I would like to think it's our being sensible...

[shankarank]

Sometimes like parliamentary procedure, we address the President ( who may be just a nominal person - obeying the rules set by parliamentary officials), so we may not be directly addressing anybody. And it is fair game to quote what has been said in the forum.

Now coming to the substance of it ( well it seems there is no substance, I write only for my entertainment), if Aruna's methods can be "othered" as Congregational music, which I feel is not founded on real experience of people, I don't see why the latter can't be "othered" as Anthropological, World Citizenship, uprootment?

Everything is entertainment, including Mridangam, done for our pleasure isn't it?

I say , Addressing : MR/Madam President, there is no need for anybody to feel offended, this is normal rhetoric , and Rhetoric is a normal method of discourse.

Also as regards conspiracy theory accusation, again addressing MR./Madam President, any ஆய்வு கட்டுரை (analytical work) done by any university Western/ivy league or infested with Western/ivy league graduated humanities experts, decades/centuries later, if presented with evidences such as this:

https://sanjaysub.blogspot.com/2009/07/ ... de-11.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4o0WJ6xK30 ( 2008 lecture)

purely based on dates, and other narratives in there, will say Carnatic music is a gamaka based, rAga based system. It may even conclude that there was a concerted effort to remove layam, metrical structure and the arts associated with that as not seminal to the art form. That is how any archaeologist will reason out as well.

But then, since we have living experience of all the allied traditions, that are still continuous, whether they share origins or not, we will not say it is a conspiracy, rather it is some habitual ignorance, apathy or a cultural malaise that has set in. Mostly unconsciously, that led people to identify their own music based on what is the dominant narrative of the popular culture and other dominant counterpart-cultures.

For example we are habitually nonsensical or ignorant by not attending / supporting Instrumental music!

So what I am up to, Mr./Madam President, is not a conspiracy theory, just some soul search based on similar things in my life like what Smt. Aruna Sairam had - though my household did not host much of any musician.

My car after being in the U.S though has some musical mileage!

[sureshvv]

I have stopped posting here, mostly because of people like you.

Rasikas has a very good feature which can hide automatically posts from people that you would rather not see. I highly recommend it. Much better than quitting the forum entirely.

[rajeshnat]

Rajesh, or any kind soul please bring the 10th Anniversary poem--just to check how much we have changed or not.Please don't call me sentimental. If you asked me, I would like to think it's our being sensible...

Arasi
I am not sure if the poem that you are referring is the one that Rsachi wrote . But that is all i could find it now .
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30757&hilit=10th+an ... ry#p330354

[rajeshnat]

Shankarank,
The post that Mahavishnu shared in post #39 is perhaps one of the posts that has been expressed directly which quite frankly many would like to express with the same intent. I and Mahavishnu have talked directly in private and I have also personally written a mail independently to srkris and VK in private about your endless and non conclusive meandering and asking them to ask you to go bit restraint. I have come to know that few more in the forum have expressed the same to moderators.

Yes you may have some points but if you keep going around in the same circle again and again with few handgranade url references , it certainly demotivates many to write . For many years many are in the forum - what we all do is at times go in a passive mode and watch for few months the proceedings that will give us more time to understand other persons opinion. I humbly suggest you do the following as you have not stayed passive for the last 2 years or so.

# Before you write the next post just run thru for few seconds if you have expressed any of the contents in your previous post . If yes just decide to pass and not write your next post. That way you give more motivation for people to write their thoughts and not get lost by your muddled thoughts .Remember each of us have to read the posts daily in our limited time and then only write. Over the last 2 years it is quite a struggle to read and assimilate what shankarank has written and then feel like writing next time (I dont have this problem per se but there are many like mahavishnu who feel demotivated ).

# If people are not replying to your points it only means it is a combination of they disagreeing , they not understanding and you should take that as a cue and perhaps feel may be I have to be passive for a while .

In general with the advent of facebook and whatsapp groups the writing quotient is coming down quite heavily , per se that is some thing each of us are facing , not blaming you or any one here . But threaded discussion is only the best form of discussion then rather one sided partially cloying facebook or a deluge of whatsapp. Help the few and motivate them to write.

Best wishes to you in practicing bhAvayAmi rAmAnAtham (let us move from gregorian chant).

[shankarank]

The forum started sometime in 2005 or so and I remained passive for about 9 years. I have been reading for a long time. If people feel upset, then they must have gotten a sense out of what I write, else how can they be so sure? They don't need to understand literally every word of it. May be people's requirements are different.

Anyways, I felt people have not countered current opinions that are afloat, effectively. Old timers tried , but were called out as being old - how old are you? - asked one of this forum! So as a relatively young voice that hobnobbed with YACM generation, I thought I need to register.

I will give you all the floor, if that is what you want. I may post here and there. But this : I have not commented much on Smt. Aruna Sairam. My dear friend's comment I did quote - that she sings like Lavani. Nothing much else.

I have no issues with any artiste doing fusion of any sort - my comments are restricted to what they do to further Carnatic Music.

[arasi]

Thanks Rajesh. It was the poem I wrote for the 10th birthday of Rasikas.org which you could see all that year by clicking on the logo...

[sureshvv]

If people feel upset, then they must have gotten a sense out of what I write, else how can they be so sure?

Not really. The problem is that you don't collect your thoughts before posting or make a cogent post with a central point. Most posts are a form of verbal dysentery attacking various schools of thought with very little explanation of where you believe they are wrong or why.

They don't need to understand literally every word of it. May be people's requirements are different.

We understand every individual word all right. It is all of them together that is confounding

You really need to spend more time on each of your posts. Make sure you have all your thoughts together. Present them cogently with each post having just one central theme. What to omit while writing is just as important as what to include.

It is a free country. Everyone is welcome to write what they feel like. This is just friendly advice. Feel free to ignore all of it

[ram1999]

Not sure why all of a sudden this member (shankarank) is questioned / targeted for his so called rants. Best ignore if the posts doesnt make sense or is of not to ones interest

[shankarank]

Most posts are a form of verbal dysentery attacking various schools of thought with very little explanation of where you believe they are wrong or why.

Since I post regularly here and in various contexts, it is reasonable for me to expect that by now people would generally know the themes behind my posts! I am not being the arbiter of right or wrong here. In spite of all that has been written, people may still continue to hold their views. But once stated, it might stay with them and they may find and agree with something similar to what I have said in a different way , in their own way.

We understand every individual word all right. It is all of them together that is confounding

The posts have to be read with the knowledge of what I have said elsewhere as well. I cannot always start from first principles - as they say!

Present them cogently with each post having just one central theme. What to omit while writing is just as important as what to include.

The advantage of the modern forums like this is responding to somebody else's thoughts, than a real essay of some standard publication. So people with less time or less writing skills, can express themselves. People have had exchanges with me , until of course I say something that upsets them.

I also want to challenge the notion that knowledge is established only by external logic, one's life experience that is expressed ( not cogently in fact) will also convey something!

It is a free country. Everyone is welcome to write what they feel like. This is just friendly advice. Feel free to ignore all of it

It is like Justin Trudeau saying he believes in one united India - will anybody now say they believe in One Canada. It is a free country only to the extent that others yield the freedom!

Nevertheless advice is also free - I will consider it - thanks!

[shankarank]

It is a free country. Everyone is welcome to write what they feel like.

When Sri Ravikiran writes in the forum , we all listen. A member who has done much research argues with him. Wonderful. We don't argue. Same goes when Dr Narmadha , or "mridangam" writes.

But yet I argue with T.M Krishna. My reasoning. He has gone to forums treating himself as equal to them ( Journalists or whoever!). An artiste in our tradition - has Panditya - is not qual to anybody and should not go into forums where he is an equal to the other! He/She cannot put our tradition in a lower or equal status , with the knowledge of any other system - especially the modern intellectualism.

But if he/she does - it is fair game to argue with him or her.

Ours is a sadas of Panditas and pAmaras - un-equals and we cannot give up that notion! Hence it is not a congregation. That includes sampradaya bhajans as well.

Hearing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4o0WJ6xK30 - first time I felt something genuine in her - respect for her - when I heard all her life experience. Much more so than, when she went as an equal to the Rookie MA Secretary in the Hindu Lit festival. She is going in front of Panditas with much trepidation and tries to put in front of them some new things she has brought and all the challenges. She puts "Madras" the music community in a higher pedestal!

But I felt I need to argue with her point that by sticking to gamakas , some how she stuck to tradition with no compromise - but not other aspects. I posted links and youtube videos from other Panditas, which to me challenges that notion.

I am also surprised that, with the training from Stalwarts, she is not considering viSrAnti as a core aspect of this musical tradition. "pApa sanga vidhara" : here https://youtu.be/1Zd-IUfjeiU?t=119, she can stand there for 10 avaRtas, executing various shades of nATTai , including a svaraksha round as well: "pa(lower) , pa (middle) , sa (higher) nga viDhara", If only she thought about slowing down her rendition. That , if she took the idea of laya from the Bhajana sampradAya into it. The art of executing in longs and shorts along with an offset.

People have taken from the sadas of Bhajana sampradaya, ideas, into the sadas of sangItam refining it to the needs of sangItam!

But nevertheless, my respect for her went up certainly after watching the Sruti presentation! I had always felt she was sometimes too opportunistic and expedient as an artiste!

But if she is less of an art musician and more of a religious one ( wrong characterization - unfortunate!) , she has indeed proved false the notion that somehow religiosity has resulted in exclusivity. She has brought in scores of people to listen - so much that her concert will look like an alien place for me!

[vijay.siddharth]

@ShankaranK-

Having attended her Music Academy concert this season, I can confirm that her concerts attract a lot of non-Indians as well. In the row I sat (ground floor, first row of the rear section), the number of non-Indians rivalled the number of Indians by quite a bit - and not all of them came because they were married to Indians!! If she is able to make Sampradaya Sangeetham appeal to a wide cross-section of people across the world (and not just India, not just South India, not just Madras, and not just Mylapore/Mamapore), then power to her!

To quote Deng Xiaoping - 'It does not matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches the rat!'

[sureshvv]

To quote Deng Xiaoping - 'It does not matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches the rat!'

What about the color of the rat?

[arasi]

Or, is it more like a mouse? I mean, muse...

[Nick H]

About the topic: I have heard that plain song and that old chanting is "modal," and I have heard it said that raga music is also "modal." Listening to snippets from the mentioned CD suggests that, whatever the word, the chants may indeed be closer to CM than modern western music would be. Or... is it just a clever fusion? I have no idea, just a passing interest. I listened to a minute or three and went on my way: the music itself did not appeal to me.

About Aruna filling concert halls: never mind the foreigners, she fills concert halls with Indians who may not attend other concerts. Last timme I saw her, there was not a foreigner in sight. (OK, there was one ) Perhaps many of those people won't go to other concerts, but if she sows the seed of interest in a small percentage, then that is good. And, anyway, I don't deny the rights of people who like Aruna Sairam to like Aruna Sairam. There are all kinds of music in the world, and many kinds of them do not appeal to me. I was only there because I was taking a foreigner (Oh yes, two foreigners then, but she was a Brit of South-Asian origin: she would not have stood out in the crowd)

[arasi]

Nick says: if she sows the seed of interest in a small percentage, then that is good.
Indeed.Good for CM in not fading away into antiquity. Also, she seems like a person who is likeable, though to a small percentage of music lovers her music is unappetizing.

[shankarank]

@ShankaranK-

Having attended her Music Academy concert this season, I can confirm that her concerts attract a lot of non-Indians as well.

About Aruna filling concert halls: never mind the foreigners, she fills concert halls with Indians who may not attend other concerts. Last timme I saw her, there was not a foreigner in sight.

OK lets explore some colors. When I mentioned her concert would look Alien to me, I would typically imagine:

may be somebody like my Mom,

or my tone deaf Dad - He is too old and not attending - So Aruna doesn't have a chance to get him anymore

or My Wife

or my cousin sisters ( whom I have taken to Kalarasana to listen to TVS , MSG, KRM and Harishankar) - nalla seTTu is all they could say and I could never have much of any conversation with them about some of the things I enjoyed and they wouldn't go there by themselves ever after.

or my Ex-Boss - poor guy - He had to listen to a Dallas Music Pramuka on how bad an idea it was for Dallas to host Aruna over a lunch we had together - he himself was eagerly looking forward to the event!

or a co-worker - who came to me and said - one of his relatives back in India were looking out for their daughter and there came this guy - it seems his was deeply interested in Carnatic music - and they were all scared!! ( sankark! sound scares you now !!). Sacred/scared - bhaya bhakti

or any number of my relatives - who would likely be caught by Aruna

When I say my kind of rasikatvam I would imagine:

A TNS student ( although a Brahmin I met him only because he worked at the same place)
A Telugu Guy ( though a Brahmin - there is no rat's chance that I could have talked to him/struck a conversation unless Music was the common interest)

A senor who was 33 years older ( what the hell I am doing hanging out with such oldies!) - Tanjore - could speak Tamizh - but Marathi mother tongue

A Disciple of the Stock MSS violinist - from KanDadEVI - who passed away recently. He in the Sax concert of the son of my Ex-Boss (cited in the above list) , as I was there to do the tALa - when I asked him about C.S Murugabhoopathy - simply said they were all stalwarts - but music has become too metallic nowadays - referring to declining tonality

A Kalaimani visiting Nadasvaram Artiste for the temple Brahmotsavam - The temple Board chairman - a MiShra from U.P - was curious about his back ground! I was doing tALam for them , since no tALam/Jalra guy could be flown over with them!

May be Nick Haynes , if not John Higgins

But neither list would be diverse enough for liberals - who have completely lost their sense and making people lose their sense as well

[Nick H]

I have been saying for years that Aruna might bring people into carnatic music that would otherwise not come, but, maybe.... she just brings in the people who go to her concerts.

Fair enough: I'm not keen, but she is far from the top of my not-attend list, and not even on my won't-attend list.

Let those who enjoy....

[arasi]

Nick,
Consider also Sudha, Jesudas, Unnikrishnan alongside. Further on, Ra-gA and Sanjay too because of their appealing quality. I do feel that tastes in CM won't stay compartmentalized in the future. The crossing of the boundaries would happen more. Thanks also to MMU and some other programs,people are exposed to CM--while changing channels, hearing some music in temples, going to a bhajan, listening to Visaka Hari?
Just as the purists in CM who approve only prime quality isai, there are those at the other end of the spectrum who desist CM.
Yet, how many countless people love to listen to MS! Bhakthi, her voice, bhAvam, what else--with their having absolutely no musical background!
The internet is bringing in more of the uninitiated into listening to some serious music. Tamizh songs, even purely classical ones attract some.
Parents these days seek music and bharathanatyam training for their kids as accomplishments. They may not be musical or come from a music-nurturing family at all!
As you browse the internet, you see how some CM oriented videos are immensely popular (don't compare the number with silly pet acts and viral ones of course )
The times are changing, I hope...

[Nick H]

Indeed. bharathanatyam cat videos?

In fact, my cat is getting ready for his first concert. He is a student of ...well, no, better I keep this as an at-home-only joke.

[uday_shankar]

In fact, my cat is getting ready for his first

There have been big cats in the dogged purrrsuit of CM - Tiger Varadachariar for example.