V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

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ark07
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018, 14:17

V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by ark07 »

I stumbled upon this interesting lecture on various women Carnatic musicians of the last couple of centuries, their achievements, challenges they faced while practising the art. It is worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVF1hoYwA_Y

Ranganayaki
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by Ranganayaki »

Haven't finished watching it, but it is so interesting!

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by shankarank »

Those who consider themselves free today and participants of free markets today, also won their unjust rights by series of court rulings in the U.S , per Chomsky - I am only quoting :twisted: - when the U.S Courts through series of rulings granted those unjust rights to corporations , which are usually preserved for Individuals, in the early years of the 20th century leading up to World war one.

So there is no reason for the rookie M.A Secretary to consider himself part of this so called great society, who could then sit in judgement of the ancestors and unleash a human rights discourse based on some warped sense of equality :twisted: !

MaheshS
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by MaheshS »

shankarank wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 08:03 So there is no reason for the rookie M.A Secretary to consider himself part of this so called great society, who could then sit in judgement of the ancestors and unleash a human rights discourse based on some warped sense of equality :twisted: !
+1, his holier than thou attitude is irritating and so hypocritical.

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by sureshvv »

MaheshS wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 15:03 +1, his holier than thou attitude is irritating and so hypocritical.
What parts/excerpts of the lecture did you find "holier than thou" and hypocritical? Pls. explain.

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by shankarank »

https://youtu.be/oVF1hoYwA_Y?t=2320. So for money they will do whatever. If Bangalore Nagaratnamma did not believe in the sanctity of paying obeisance to ancestors, she would not have taken upon that as a challenge. If her intent was only to insult the tradition by saying for money they will do whatever, she would not ask them to put the Akshada on her head and believe that fruits will accrue to her.

The Brahmins also, could have compromised in the food part for the money and agreed to eat the food she cooks, they didn't - but that by itself will be considered controversial.

But there is no chance that, they agreed to do it because they saw her devotion to tyAgarAja.

If indeed it was some silly retort that she was playing she lost - as she really did not intend to propitiate the memory of tyAgaraja , the Brahmins of course third rate people, they lost as well - they compromised for Money.

In reality however, irrespective of the nature of the people involved, the tradition laid down by the rishis won! The ancestral rites predate all this brahminism anyways!

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by sureshvv »

sureshvv wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 15:56
MaheshS wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 15:03 +1, his holier than thou attitude is irritating and so hypocritical.
What parts/excerpts of the lecture did you find "holier than thou" and hypocritical? Pls. explain.
Did not mean to put you on the spot or anything like that.

I did notice a proclivity to judge people of the bygone era wearing the moral spectacles of today.
This may be what you perceived as "holier than thou".

But if we consider that the intent was not to denigrate the people of past generations but to exhort the audience of today to see the problems in some of those views, the content becomes much more palatable.

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 12:41 I did notice a proclivity to judge people of the bygone era wearing the moral spectacles of today.

This may be what you perceived as "holier than thou".
The devadasis are gone. But whatever notions we held against them is prevalent today! Brahmanism is also on the decline - but whatever notions we held against them are virulently on the upswing - I am not even referring to the Caste system of India in fact - rather the people in Ivory towers ( they don't claim they are holy actually) - taking action against it!

I don't know why we need to wear any spectacles to judge anything in the past.

MaheshS
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by MaheshS »

sureshvv wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 12:41
sureshvv wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 15:56
MaheshS wrote: 16 Feb 2018, 15:03 +1, his holier than thou attitude is irritating and so hypocritical.
What parts/excerpts of the lecture did you find "holier than thou" and hypocritical? Pls. explain.
Did not mean to put you on the spot or anything like that.

I did notice a proclivity to judge people of the bygone era wearing the moral spectacles of today.
This may be what you perceived as "holier than thou".

But if we consider that the intent was not to denigrate the people of past generations but to exhort the audience of today to see the problems in some of those views, the content becomes much more palatable.
I agree to an extent, but what happened happened. Much as I admire him as a historian, I just wish he'd stick with facts of what happened without commenting / judging, and some of his so called humour is cringe worthy. The so called "subtle" digs he makes of past and present is anything but, ahh well.

sureshvv
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Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 19:16 The devadasis are gone. But whatever notions we held against them is prevalent today!
I think there is currently a movement to set things right here. Because some of these notions are incorrect.
Brahmanism is also on the decline - but whatever notions we held against them are virulently on the upswing - I am not even referring to the Caste system of India in fact - rather the people in Ivory towers ( they don't claim they are holy actually) - taking action against it!
All things wrong with our society today is being attributed to Brahmanism. For better or for worse! Not sure how it can be countered logically or even if it should.
I don't know why we need to wear any spectacles to judge anything in the past.
Because we can't help it. We are always wearing spectacles, meaning we are informed by the morals of the day.

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: V. Sriram's lecture on Women Carnatic Musicians of the last two centuries.

Post by sankark »

sureshvv wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 09:32
Brahmanism is also on the decline - but whatever notions we held against them are virulently on the upswing - I am not even referring to the Caste system of India in fact - rather the people in Ivory towers ( they don't claim they are holy actually) - taking action against it!
All things wrong with our society today is being attributed to Brahmanism. For better or for worse! Not sure how it can be countered logically or even if it should.
Logically, this can't be countered logically. It is an emotion driven thing - find something to hang the blame on - that doesn't pay heed to such silly things as logic.

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