TMK goes to Church

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Sundara Rajan
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Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 08:19

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Sundara Rajan »

Good news , indeed. More such efforts should be encouraged to bring us together in a multi religious, but secular India that is known for its acceptance of all faiths.

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by rajeshnat »

About 12 years back in a school by name Vidyodaya(christian missionary school) in T Nagar I witnessed a group singing 5 christian themed songs all tuned in pancha ratna ragas and then few krithis which are known and had The Hindu lyrics (meant the religion not the paper) .

shankarank
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

From a Schwarzenegger movie dialogue: "tell me something I don't know"

Didn't he not walk out of one a few years back? :lol: :lol:

But this one welcoming him has become a less of a one! 8-)

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

Sundara Rajan wrote: 23 Feb 2018, 08:41 Good news , indeed. More such efforts should be encouraged to bring us together in a multi religious, but secular India that is known for its acceptance of all faiths.
You should stop reading The Hindu or crap put out by historians attempting to curry favor with a 60-year ruling dynasty headed by an Italian female.

Bartolomeus Ziegenbalg came to the Coromandel coastal town of Tranquebar from Halle, Germany about 300 years ago to spread Christianity among the heathens. He wrote in his autobiography that the locals threw stones at him and his fellow missionaries as they went about the countryside trying to preach the gospel.

Govinda Deekshithar, the minister to the Serfoji kings of Tanjore, permitted the local Muslims to build a mosque for community worship just about 400 years ago. Until then, the Muslims of the region practiced their religion privately just like expatriate Hindus practice their religion today in Saudi Arabia.

So, stop this bullcrap about tolerant, secular, syncretic, multi-religious Hindus. Read real history for a change, not the crap put out by the likes of Romilla Thapar.

RSR
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by RSR »

I don't know about the historical veracity of St.Thomas having landed in Kerala coast soon after the crucifixion and resurrection. An amusing story from a Syrian catholoic friend and blogger.-> " Some orthodox brahmins were throwing water towards the sky as tharpanam for the pithrus. St.Thomas came that way, and on seeing their ritual, he too took palmful of river water and threw it heavenward.and Lo! the water drops stayed in mid air without falling ! The vedic brahmins , astounded by the miracle, instantly became converts and since then Syrian Catholics are as ancient to India as any other religion. St.Thomas was however murdered at Chennai ( Santhome Church and St.Thomas Mount at Chennai). Avoid politics in this forum meant for Carnatic music. Emulate the greatest Indian of the last 25 years, Dr.Abdul Kalam. Or Chembai Vaidhyanatha Bagavathar. and Jesudas . I am thrilled by this video of Jesudas at Aranmoola temple. See the bliss in their faces!
https://youtu.be/cbMGTXciAZU
Whether theist or not, one cannot but admire the co-existence of Orthodox Hindus, Ancient Christians ( The service in churches of Central Kerala used to be in Syriac till last century) and the muslims in Malabar. In a sense, all the orthodox vedic families in Tamil country and even elsewhere came from outside. The same is true of so-called Dravidians too. One has to be a dhandakaranya tribal to claim to be the son of the soil ( cannot help quoting' 'buried under tons of soil! ( Wodehouse)..

kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by kvchellappa »

http://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/m ... 877299.ece
A laudable effort. One would like to see it grow beyond tokenism.

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

RSR wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 23:39 I don't know about the historical veracity of St.Thomas having landed in Kerala coast soon after the crucifixion and resurrection. An amusing story from a Syrian catholoic friend and blogger.-> " Some orthodox brahmins were throwing water towards the sky as tharpanam for the pithrus. St.Thomas came that way, and on seeing their ritual, he too took palmful of river water and threw it heavenward.and Lo! the water drops stayed in mid air without falling ! The vedic brahmins , astounded by the miracle, instantly became converts and since then Syrian Catholics are as ancient to India as any other religion. St.Thomas was however murdered at Chennai ( Santhome Church and St.Thomas Mount at Chennai). Avoid politics in this forum meant for Carnatic music....
Whether theist or not, one cannot but admire the co-existence of Orthodox Hindus, Ancient Christians ( The service in churches of Central Kerala used to be in Syriac till last century) and the muslims in Malabar......
Here is an amusing story for you.

St Thomas preached about Jesus dying for our sins.

The Malayalees were not moved.

St Thomas then talked about how Jesus fed the multitude with a couple of loaves of bread and a few fish.

The Malayalees, being rice eaters, were not moved. They also knew there was plenty of fish to be had in the ponds, rivers and the sea.

Then St Thomas talked about how Jesus turned water into wine. There was a stampede and before the week was over, 28% of Malayalees had converted to Christianity! :lol:

----------------------

As to the co-existence of Orthodox Hindus, Christian and Muslims in Kerala, you may want to read about the Moplah Rebellion of 1921. You can look it up in Wikipedia.

Or you could prefer to stay dumb.
Last edited by harimau on 03 Mar 2018, 23:20, edited 1 time in total.

sankark
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sankark »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:07
As to the co-existence of Orthodox Hindus, Christian and Muslims in Kerala, you may want to read about the Moplah Rebellion of 1923. You can look it up in Wikipedia.
Isn't every "Tom Dick & Harry" applicable in this instance?

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

harimau wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 22:56 Until then, the Muslims of the region practiced their religion privately just like expatriate Hindus practice their religion today in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the model you would like to follow? :?

RSR
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by RSR »

@8-> " see not, hear not, speak not, and write not' any thing GOOD seems to be the credo of mau-mau lot.
It is an offense to indulge in communal hatred in public forum, especially rasikas which is closely followed by Google.
....Kudos to T.M.KRISHNA for once, despite his nonsense and offensive writings on Smt.MS. ...Keep up the good work TMK. Teach our people the difference in meaning of words like Athesism, Agnosticism, Secularism, Religious fanaticism, Mysticism, Faith and Bigotry. ... For once , TMK is on the right track. Let him not talk or write. Let him just sing hymns all over Tamilnad. Leave Chennai and tour the interior districts and sing concerts (free) in as many schools and colleges. Take your fine art to the youngsters. That will be atonement for the time wasted in the company of rightwing and leftwing morons
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... va-rajaram

From TheHindu report.
And so, Krishna chose to start with a sloka put together by Mahatma Gandhi himself, before launching into a number composed by Vedanayakam Shastri in Mohanam raga. The singer was a picture of earnestness as he sojourned into the nuances and gamakas of the compositions that traversed different faiths and languages. “I won’t talk a lot, I’ll just sing,” he had announced earlier. And sing he did.

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

Vedanayakam Shastri? Aiyo.. these Hindu boys!

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sankark »

sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 16:14 Vedanayakam Shastri? Aiyo.. these Hindu boys!
piLLaivAL could have been an expert in some shAstram ;)

pattu
Posts: 52
Joined: 18 Sep 2011, 11:15

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by pattu »

TM Krishna would do better to convert to Christianity and sing church hymns. Good money from foreign sources and fame too. CM will be spared his pedestrian singing.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Nick H »

It's all over the news at the moment that Gandhi wrote something nice about Jesus. The assumption being, I suppose, that Gandhi was always right....

I don't care who does what in a church: I'm not going to see it.
his pedestrian singing.
Actually, it's rather good. And his students seem to be excellent.

Or, maybe you are talking about speed. Perhaps you're more of a Ferrarishek man! Or K Maseratikrishna?

Ranganayaki
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

Nick H wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 21:11
his pedestrian singing.
Or, maybe you are talking about speed.
This is so funny!!! 😄😄

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:50
harimau wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 22:56 Until then, the Muslims of the region practiced their religion privately just like expatriate Hindus practice their religion today in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the model you would like to follow? :?
Pay them back in their own coin.

Turning the other cheek only gets you slapped again and again.

How about Donald J Trump? You think we should follow him?

Of course you can follow Angela Merkel and end up with no-go zones inside your country. As it is, I was cautioned not to go to Old Delhi after nightfall.

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

sankark wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:22
harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:07
As to the co-existence of Orthodox Hindus, Christian and Muslims in Kerala, you may want to read about the Moplah Rebellion of 1923. You can look it up in Wikipedia.
Isn't every "Tom Dick & Harry" applicable in this instance?
That article on the Moplah Rebellion is well documented in the history of Malabar. It gave rise to the Malabar Special Police, the first police unit equipped with wireless transceiver sets so that police vans could be contacted easily from the control room. Remember, this was in 1923 when telephones were few and far between.

Of course, one could stay ignorant. That is one's right, I suppose.

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

RSR wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 16:02
From TheHindu report.......
I wouldn't use The Hindu even to wrap fish or to line a birdcage.

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

RSR wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 16:02 ...... TMK is on the right track. Let him not talk or write. Let him just sing hymns all over Tamilnad. Leave Chennai and tour the interior districts and sing concerts (free) in as many schools and colleges. Take your fine art to the youngsters. That will be atonement for the time wasted in the company of rightwing and leftwing morons
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... va-rajaram
.........
Which one of your friends of the "minority religions" sings "Raghupathi Raghav Rajaram, Ishwar Allah Tere Naam"?

Or "Issa Allah Tere Naam"?

Anybody?

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:50
harimau wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 22:56 Until then, the Muslims of the region practiced their religion privately just like expatriate Hindus practice their religion today in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the model you would like to follow? :?
Have you been to Kerala?

The number of schoolgirls in burqas is astounding. Pre-teen, pre-pubescent schoolgirls! So, somebody is following Saudi Arabia!

We should tell them not to ride in school buses but ride their bloody camels!

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

Now begins the hatred in a TMK thread! There is no telling what direction it will take. Moderator, please either move this to the lounge or lock the thread in time. What's going to happen doesn't need the visibility of general Discussions. Please take a stand on what Rasikas should be.

harimau
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

Ranganayaki wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 22:52 Now begins the hatred in a TMK thread! There is no telling what direction it will take. Moderator, please either move this to the lounge or lock the thread in time. What's going to happen doesn't need the visibility of general Discussions. Please take a stand on what Rasikas should be.
Anyone who religiously spouts historical untruths quoting The Hindu or Bandit Nehru should expect to get corrected.

By the way, the Dutch colonial administration banned conversion activities in Hindu Bali. Except for the influx of a small percentage of Muslims from other islands, Bali remains 93% Hindu.

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 22:27
sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 15:50
harimau wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 22:56 Until then, the Muslims of the region practiced their religion privately just like expatriate Hindus practice their religion today in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the model you would like to follow? :?
Pay them back in their own coin.

Turning the other cheek only gets you slapped again and again.
You think the majority of people are happy in Saudi Arabia? Would you be happier if everyone had to do 12 thoopukaranams for Vinayanakar every day?

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 22:43
Have you been to Kerala?
https://www.thetoptens.com/states-india-live/

Read the part that says:
Clean and neat places, no pollution, full of greeneries, well educated people, back waters, no communal violence, roads to reach everywhere, very good in tourism and health sector, best police in India.
Cost of living is cheap than other states.
Very good people and good cost of living comparing other states.
East or west kerala is the best, people are welcoming, Top state with highest literacy, well accurate in sex ratio, highest life expectancy. Living cost is cheap. Less pollution. Calm environment, enriched with cultures and with different religions, people are united with no discrimination, Best police service in India. Good in agriculture tourism and health sectors.
I will be happy to wear a burqa if my state can be as good.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:11 :geek:

Anyone who religiously spouts historical untruths quoting The Hindu or Bandit Nehru should expect to get corrected.

By the way, the Dutch colonial administration banned conversion activities in Hindu Bali. Except for the influx of a small percentage of Muslims from other islands, Bali remains 93% Hindu.
You are welcome to your views, Harimau. But religious hatred is a recurring theme here and it is completely out of place. This is a forum for CM and not Hinduism. We have people of all religions here. At least they should all feel welcome, without exclusion. We cannot practice Hindu chauvinism. I want to enjoy being here and this is preventing it. I'm sure there are many like me. There are many chauvinists too, but the question is: what is Rasikas' policy? who do we want to be ? Only the moderator and others who created this forum should answer and honestly, I WANT an answer.

I have often enjoyed your writing and humor, Harimau. But this religious finger-pointing is so beneath you and all of us!

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:30
harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 22:43
Have you been to Kerala?
https://www.thetoptens.com/states-india-live/

Read the part that says:
Clean and neat places, no pollution, full of greeneries, well educated people, back waters, no communal violence, roads to reach everywhere, very good in tourism and health sector, best police in India.
Cost of living is cheap than other states.
Very good people and good cost of living comparing other states.
East or west kerala is the best, people are welcoming, Top state with highest literacy, well accurate in sex ratio, highest life expectancy. Living cost is cheap. Less pollution. Calm environment, enriched with cultures and with different religions, people are united with no discrimination, Best police service in India. Good in agriculture tourism and health sectors.
I will be happy to wear a burqa if my state can be as good.
You ought to study causality.

Wearing a burqa didn't lead to all the things mentioned in the article you quoted.

If that is the case, Pakistan and Afghanistan would have the same Human Development Index as Kerala.

You could put all of your family in burqas and your home state wouldn't improve.

But then, you could point out that the US with 100% TV penetration leads in deaths due to heart disease and conclude that TVs cause heart disease. Or bikinis.

That is an idea! Let us see if bikinis in Kerala take it to the level of the USA or Sweden!

harimau
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by harimau »

Ranganayaki wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:33
harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:11 :geek:

Anyone who religiously spouts historical untruths quoting The Hindu or Bandit Nehru should expect to get corrected.

By the way, the Dutch colonial administration banned conversion activities in Hindu Bali. Except for the influx of a small percentage of Muslims from other islands, Bali remains 93% Hindu.
You are welcome to your views, Harimau. But religious hatred is a recurring theme here and it is completely out of place. This is a forum for CM and not Hinduism. We have people of all religions here. At least they should all feel welcome, without exclusion. We cannot practice Hindu chauvinism. I want to enjoy being here and this is preventing it. I'm sure there are many like me. There are many chauvinists too, but the question is: what is Rasikas' policy? who do we want to be ? Only the moderator and others who created this forum should answer and honestly, I WANT an answer.

I have often enjoyed your writing and humor, Harimau. But this religious finger-pointing is so beneath you and all of us!
I merely pursue truth. And as they say, Satyameva Jayathe!

As Jack Nicholson says, "You can't handle the truth".

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

RSR wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 16:02 difference in meaning of words like Athesism, Agnosticism, Secularism, Religious fanaticism, Mysticism, Faith and Bigotry
All of these are words/concepts alien to India. Invented by Marxist Scholars ( if not Marxist - substitute any "-ist" from the Enlightenment world - why do I care?) . These exist simply for the latter to stay relevant and have their argument.

I would rather have the argument with the Church directly. That is more of a honest debate. The interlocutors have been effectively sidelined. TMK singing in the Church is the Victory for all the maneuvers that have been done!

People who have been quoting Voltaire, have been now made to sing in front of the Church!

If Christianity paganized the natives, Enlightenment taught their readers to paganize their Ancestors.

Evidence: https://youtu.be/c9WlsTgU8BE?t=633 . When was ever a single religion existed in India. This is the debate the right is losing by allowing others and themselves positing the same ( that even at some point there was one religion) and then themselves having to contradict it. The compulsions of the street dialogue!

At one point it may actually be true that people of vEdic tradition never went beyond the dvaja of a temple - they stood where nandanar stood , at best they would go to the nyAya manTapa to discuss nyAya. Agama is something that came from outside! If necessary, this status may have to be restored to respond to the criticism.

Now my co-worker is telling me, his sons don't know why people conduct all these rituals in the temple and side by side adding - Hindusim is the last remaining pagan religion!
Last edited by shankarank on 04 Mar 2018, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:30
harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 22:43
Have you been to Kerala?
https://www.thetoptens.com/states-india-live/

Read the part that says:..
If Kerala is good, the parts that are good are the parts where there have never been invasion and even British did not have direct control. So that tells you what happened in all other places. Tamizh country would have stayed like that if the invasions did not come in. What you have are Telugu origin people! Brahmins gave up their land when challenged!

But rest assured, the Left will destroy Kerala, if allowed to rule for more time. Whatever problems in there are caused by the Left! Missionaries have come before, Arab traders have come before. All syncretized well. No issues there!

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:58

I merely pursue truth. And as they say, Satyameva Jayathe!
Wow, that sounds exalted!

But nobody pursues falsehood, you know. If you pursue a truth which cannot rise above the level of somebody else's truth except for your preference for it, then it does not have much validity beyond your preference.

So this pursuit, that allows you to exclude Christians and muslims and other religions, makes you less wise than you can be and does not exalt you. You would be kinder not imposing your truth on others like me.

But there is another truth that is absolute and cannot be refuted. May be you could pursue that. And that is the Satya in Satyameva Jayate. Not this hate-filled stuff!

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

harimau wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:50
I will be happy to wear a burqa if my state can be as good.
You ought to study causality.
And you should learn to read. Nowhere did I imply causality.

Anyway you have tacitly admitted to the superior quality of life in Kerala, burqas notwithstanding.

Which was my point to begin with.

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 02:56 But rest assured, the Left will destroy Kerala, if allowed to rule for more time.
This is your fear talking. No evidence whatsoever.

When you blame a government for all the problems, you ought to credit them for the good things that happen too.

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

http://www.thehindu.com/society/when-re ... epage=true

What butt of jokes some people have become? And he quotes many enlightened junksters! Ignoring the intellectual tradition of the country, you will be now taught by the antagonists of the Church, who are in fact their first front agents!

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 09:23 This is your fear talking. No evidence whatsoever.
EMS did a land re-distribution. This could have been done without a Left ideology in a more just way. Impoverished a future constituency of his party who would want to make sure their pension, benefits and salaries will get paid - so at least alternatively they will be in power.

At that time, Left also invented locally compatible slogans and meshed with the culture - so most people did not read their real ideologies and done a critical look at it. They were made to believed the Left ideology is integral part of their ethos!

In the land of Adi Sankara, their own intellectuals failed to counter the left critically, only fuming over their property loss. Sankara - kodungara - against EMS now.

Tambrams - called Bhattars also voted Communist. I heard from a agrahAram vAsi, that there were kOlams with aruvAL, suttiyal, natchattiram. That is their existential achievement in the 20th century! Clueless civilization is an Apt description here.

Meanwhile the Church ( pAmbin kAl pAmbariyum) quietly worked its ways into Society! The Church knows what communism is. It has dealt with it all its history.

I was witness to the conversation in the passenger loading bus en-flight to Thiruvananthapuram to Chennai (2005/06) - between a coordinator of all NGOs and what seemed like a high ranking official of Kerala Government. They were discussing and laughing about why we need an IT park in Trivandrum! Next Day The Hindu published a photograph of his with some write up - thats when I knew who that guy was.

Kerala's cash flow is mostly repatriation from the Gulf. So it is under life support! And whatever beauty is inherited beauty of it's culture - to be eaten by the Cancer called the Left.
Last edited by shankarank on 04 Mar 2018, 11:08, edited 2 times in total.

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

I am quoting in this thread - since I don't want to sully a pristine thread!
Ranganayaki wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 08:17 Most of Carnatic music is devotional
You mean the sukkumi-laguti word split? Which is prevalent in all pATAntarams? Hanging in the antaram??

I don't understand this actually. This devotional and all that, seems to be a parroting of whatever the Buddhi-JIvis learnt - they just learnt how to speak only - not the actual meaning. Can you explain this ?

Is it also religious music? TMK says NO - actually! Then how come most of it is devotional? What is the definition of devotional ? I don't understand at all! Can you explain?

Should it address one of the 33 K or 33 C gods? Gods - really?? That many creators ? Wow? World is quite a creation then!
Ranganayaki wrote: 03 Mar 2018, 23:33 This is a forum for CM and not Hinduism. What is Rasikas' policy? who do we want to be ? Only the moderator and others who created this forum should answer and honestly, I WANT an answer.
Should we discuss it here at all? I don't understand what we are doing here?

What about the pursuit of excellence? If kanakavasana is paused @ kanaka, most people would struggle to maintain the pace. Have you heard of this thing about Mridangam playing - where if some Mridangists pause , they cannot put their hand back easily?. There seems to be an equivalent of this deficiency in kriti singing looks like?

kana vasana is telugu? Unknown language? Are they that much devoted to it? What is then devotional mostly about it?

I really don't understand this!!!

Are people objecting to this just being Linguists? Language chauvinists? To be othered that way - invent some Anthropological invectives! They don't know what musical excellence is really!

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

shankarank wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 10:36 I am quoting in this thread - since I don't want to sully a pristine thread!
Ranganayaki wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 08:17 Most of Carnatic music is devotional
You mean the sukkumi-laguti word split? Which is prevalent in all pATAntarams? Hanging in the antaram??

I'm at a loss.. what word split?

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

I will let you catch up with all the threads and then explain to you!

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

shankarank wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 11:19 I will let you catch up with all the threads and then explain to you!
Time to explain!

You quote me and ask a random question about some other thread!

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

shankarank wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 10:22 This could have been done without a Left ideology in a more just way.
What "just" way? You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs :D
At that time, Left also invented locally compatible slogans and meshed with the culture - so most people did not read their real ideologies and done a critical look at it. They were made to believed the Left ideology is integral part of their ethos!
You have it backwards. The "ethos" (sarvE janaaha sukhino bhavantu) stays the same. The Left aligned their message with the ethos, capturing the people's imagination.
In the land of Adi Sankara, their own intellectuals failed to counter the left critically, only fuming over their property loss. Sankara - kodungara - against EMS now.
Adi Sankara turning in his grave now :D
Tambrams - called Bhattars also voted Communist. I heard from a agrahAram vAsi, that there were kOlams with aruvAL, suttiyal, natchattiram. That is their existential achievement in the 20th century! Clueless civilization is an Apt description here.
You are the clueless one. They knew which side of the bread was buttered.

Kerala's cash flow is mostly repatriation from the Gulf. So it is under life support! And whatever beauty is inherited beauty of it's culture - to be eaten by the Cancer called the Left.
Taking the 30000 ft view, it looks like the "cancer" has progressed very well.

sureshvv
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by sureshvv »

Story 2 is of serious concern. The other 2 are just fluff evidencing the pomposity of the writer himself.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

shankarank wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 10:36

Is it also religious music? TMK says NO - actually! Then how come most of it is devotional? What is the definition of devotional ? I don't understand at all! Can you explain?
This is the only part of your post that seems genuine to me.

Surely you don't think "religious" and "devotional" are synonymous and interchangeable !! To put it simply , religion is external, a social phenomenon, it organizes a society in some way. Devotion is at the level of the individual alone, it is a phenomenon that is experienced internally, as a very deep attachment to something personal that inspires the individual.
Last edited by Ranganayaki on 04 Mar 2018, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.

RSR
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by RSR »

Some people think that the much-hated word 'socialism' is alien to India's ethical values, over so many centuries. Not so. According to the way of life since ancient times, communal ownership especially in land has been the ideal. and practice. Even today, so many zamindaris and ex-kingdoms have become very poor but Devasthanams are still flourishing. Good Thing. Contributions to religious institutions and temples by common people, rich and poor, is redirected to schemes for public welfare.
'No universal selfishness can bring social good to all," he said.
"Communism -- the effort to give all men what they need and to ask of each the best they can contribute -- this is the only way of human life."These aims are not crimes. They are practiced increasingly over the world. No nation can call itself free which does not allow its citizens to work for these ends
That was Dr.DuBois. . Let us think of the glaring injustice of bad debts by public sector banks running into lakhs of crores of rupees while more than 75% of people are struggling to get means of bare subsistence. The latest OXFAM report reveals the picture of alarming rise in concentration of national wealth in very few hands. We should not talk about political-economic-social problems in this forum . and hence this is enough.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

sureshvv wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 12:07
Story 2 is of serious concern. The other 2 are just fluff evidencing the pomposity of the writer himself.
I only saw mind-numbing fluff!

RSR
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by RSR »

such sentiments...of despair and hence escapism, are the hallmark of all the authors quoted and mentioned in the article. ( sadanand menon..kafka stuff) May be that we do not have an ideal solution but we should try to do whatever we can to solve the problem. I have given a link to a rarely known note by Sri.T.Sadasivam on the musical genius of SmtMS and how she used her genius for public welfare in her own way. ( please see MS thread) That is the right spirit. not crying for vendetta of past incidents of hatred and violence. We always seem to want some rationale for expressing hatred. be it religious differences, linguistic issues, caste issues, and such. How the jains were eliminated in tamil country is a matter of 'research'. Do we not have enough evidence to see how much hatred and violence is there today, between two major branches of Islam? or the terrible inquisitions in the Christendom? even between varios sects in vaishavites and saivites? or between Sikhs? Yet, the essential message of all the religions remains still Universal Love and Service. Ignore the bad things and speak of the good things. That is what Dr.Kalaam has taught us.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Ranganayaki »

Should it address one of the 33 K or 33 C gods? Gods - really?? That many creators ? Wow? World is quite a creation then!
Even setting aside the various philosophical traditions which emphasize only one supreme being, the mythology involving the pantheon of gods describes only one creator, and you probably know which one that is - Bramha. Vishnu, Shiva etc. are not considered creators, and they have their own separate roles, the same for all the rest of the gods and divinities.

In general in spite of the number of gods, "Hinduism" is monotheistic.

RSR
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by RSR »

An atheist rejects all notions of God. ( I wonder if Buddhists and Jains do not belong to this group. According to them, it is our karma (ethics) which causes cycle of birth and rebirth ( punarapi jananam ,punarapi maranam, punarapi janani jadare sayanam) the good and bad things in individual's lives are result of one's actions in previous birth... much of this has been incorporated into modern Indian thought. . Is there any kruthi in CM, that glorifies violence and animal sacrifice? No divine intervention can give us relief. ." seythavam illaarku deivam varam koda' ( gods do not grant boons to people who have NOT earned it by their deeds in previous birth!... silabmu) So the only way is to lead a righteous life...In a way, the old vedic life also did not believe in personal God. For them ,it was just a matter of propitiating the Elemental forces of Nature by offerings taken to the celestial forces by Agni. So a bit optimistic! 2) Non-vedic Indian religion, believes in God(s) .So does Islam and Christianity.
Vaishnavam, and Saivam, Ganapathyam, Kaumaram, are based on non-killing. and nice thing is that there is no animal sacrifice in religious places of Islam and Christianity. or Sikhism. ( jainism and buddhism too ) Unfortunately, animal sacrifice is the most prevalent pratice in 'hindu' way of life ! ( militates against all the best tenets of KuraL. ) The idea of personal God brings solace to people and gives them mental strength. Belief in netherworld, if it leads to a life of purity and service and even cultural excellence, is always welcome. Agnostics are philosophers and they say that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved. There are limits to Human Knoledge Only mystics can see that unity by instinct.
Atheism in practice, denies God, Cycle of birth-death-rebirth, accountability, ..theoretically. Ofcourse, a very 'religious ' person can be a monster and a philosophical atheist a model of compassion, self-sacrifice and service.. Practice and not mere precepts.

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 12:07 Story 2 is of serious concern. The other 2 are just fluff evidencing the pomposity of the writer himself.
You mean the PM about plastic surgery. It should be taken as a narrative. But he should have done better. A French General is likely to have seen this being done in a War Zone.

http://columbiasurgery.org/news/2015/05 ... ic-surgery

https://books.google.com/books?id=sEX11 ... ce&f=false


sureshvv wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 11:57 Taking the 30000 ft view, it looks like the "cancer" has progressed very well.
OK you resort to lame sarcasm. Yes according to UN Development reports. The Church has good paid and trained press. If anything the Church is the real bulwark against communism and it could be credited here somewhat.

Just not too long ago Kerala Govt. was over drafting the RBI account to pay salaries. If Kerala is looking up it is due to the prosperity of the rest of the country as well. Other states have their traditional issues, like Urban poor due to Industrialization and such to deal with.

shankarank
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by shankarank »

Ranganayaki wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 13:02
Even setting aside the various philosophical traditions which emphasize only one supreme being.

In general in spite of the number of gods, "Hinduism" is monotheistic.
Why do we have to use borrowed language. What is this monotheistic? There are creation stories - but they are narratives. There is no one Supreme Being.

Philosophical traditions are intellectual pursuits of the capable. Nevertheless Sri Sankara, Sri Ramanuja likely listened to kathas with avid interest.

A Good discussion occurs here: https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-histo ... t-resolved

The correct thing to say is : Creation that we see is held as sacred. And here is an unusual thing that demonstrates it - from Kerala.

http://www.mannarasala.org/dynamic.php? ... rasalaAmma

Creation itself was declared as myth by one philosophical school.

Physicists say in their own way that the observed phenomena ( in their mathematical model) is a holographic projection of a two dimensional surface. But our philosophers were not the same as the Scientists and their method cannot be called Scientific.

It is just some amazing thing that they could think systematically and abstractly in their ways. Thats how I see it.

Yajmir
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Re: TMK goes to Church

Post by Yajmir »

Ranganayaki wrote: 04 Mar 2018, 13:02
Should it address one of the 33 K or 33 C gods? Gods - really?? That many creators ? Wow? World is quite a creation then!
Even setting aside the various philosophical traditions which emphasize only one supreme being, the mythology involving the pantheon of gods describes only one creator, and you probably know which one that is - Bramha. Vishnu, Shiva etc. are not considered creators, and they have their own separate roles, the same for all the rest of the gods and divinities.

In general in spite of the number of gods, "Hinduism" is monotheistic.
<REDACTED>Hinduism is 100% polytheistic. The fact that it is polytheistic makes the Abrahamics and people who have swallowed Abrahamistics memes through Western philosophies uncomfortable. That's why the westerners like to label Hinduism as Pantheistic. So that they can claim that Hindu just worship "Yahweh" with different name. The fact that there is a system which they have tried to eliminate for centuries still exists and followed by large number of people shows that they have failed in destroying the Pagans. Just because Brahma is considered creator doesn't mean Hinduism is monotheistic <REDACTED>. Abrahamistic notion of creator being supreme doesn't apply to Hinduism. <REDACTED>

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