Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

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harimau
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#201 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by harimau »

kvchellappa wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 20:31 You take us repeatedly there, Harimau! You perhaps are in UPA syndrome yourself.
Yeah, I can see you getting outraged by my comments about your favorite artists.

As I have said, yes, I question the tastes of those who patronize the tup-tup artist and others who pander to the lowest common denominator among those listening to classical music.

You should know better. Or learn from those who know better.

devan
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#202 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by devan »

Next sk. may be veenai r s Jayalakshmi. The greatest veenai ever born. Unfortunately harimau will be the only audience. She may pay minimum 5000 if you attend the concert. For some musicians audience come paying any money. For

ram1999
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#203 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by ram1999 »

harimau wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 20:30
ram1999 wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 12:11
I gave you a +1 for your deleted post.

You deserve it no matter what your comment may have been! :lol:
😜🤪🤪

ram1999
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#204 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by ram1999 »

I am currently in UK. Few of my friends who are into organizing concerts say Audience do not have the patience to sit thru more than an hour and a half or 2 and musicians also demand quite a bit of money to perform.

Audience expect light music and not heavy stuff and musicians pander to the audience than educating them. If concerts are organized by Sri Lankan community, they expect no renditions of thyagaraja or dikshitar or Shyama sastry.

Whose fault it is - musicians for not educating the audience and finding an easy way or the audience who do not have the grasp to listen to heavy traditional music !
I am sure this is what is happening in Mecca of Music too.

Specially during dec season where it is more a fancy dress competition of the audience showcasing the Kanchi silks and diamond jewelry and canteen hoppers. More people go to the canteens than to the music halls. Mecca of music perhaps should be renamed musical circus 😢

CRama
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#205 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by CRama »

devan wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 21:42 Next sk. may be veenai r s Jayalakshmi. The greatest veenai ever born. Unfortunately harimau will be the only audience. She may pay minimum 5000 if you attend the concert. For some musicians audience come paying any money. For
Even for arguement sake, dont ridicule a senior Guru cum well respected Veena Vidushi like Dr. R.S. Jayalakshmi Mami.

ram1999
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#206 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by ram1999 »

ram1999 wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 21:57
Audience expect light music and not heavy stuff and musicians pander to the likes of audience ..

Whose fault it is - musicians for not educating the audience and finding an easy way or the audience who do not have the grasp to listen to heavy traditional music !
I am sure this is what is happening in Mecca of Music too.

Reminds me of Shri T K Rangachari’s bangalore Concert with T Rukmini. The main item is neelambari - the famous kriti of Ponniah Pillai. He goes to say that many of the beautiful kritis and ragas are ignored by musicians and they resort to singing the usual kritis in big 6 ragas which is perhaps an easy affair for both the performer and the audience in appreciating the music. He takes on neelambari / chakravaham / vachaspati and a few more and talks about the beauty and the expanse of these ragas. He says audience should demand good music from musicians else musicians will not take the effort to deliver good music. It is more an admonishing the audience in the most subtle manner for lowering their listening quality 😀. The speech in itself is so beautiful as his music. The alapana is almost a good 10 mins. And a fabulous rendition of Amba Neelambari.

Definitely the class of such musicians are few and rare.

Ponbhairavi
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#207 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Ponbhairavi »

From all her innumerable concerts recordings.albums and reviews in her forty five years of full time music career, not a single instance has been adduced regarding any deficiency in her mastery over any aspect of the C M grammar.The only points raised against her are that she has sung maadu meikkum kanne and kalinga narthana tillana.It is painted as though she is unfit for any recognition because she has sung these two.. What sort of bias is this ?
Let us consider these 2 “ untouchables.” which are put forth to nullify all her credentials.
-kaalinga narthana thillana is a composition of Oothukaadu venkata kavi . Nobody can question its classicism as carnatic composition. ( thillana )
- maadu meikkum kanne is a composition of bhajanai sampradayam sung towards the end of divyanaamam.Its tune ,as most of the popular tunes of bhajanai sampradayam , does not violate any carnatic norm.The theme is an imagined dialogue between krishna and yesodha.. It underlines bhakthi bhava in common man’s language.,something like the muddugare yashoda in telegu sung by shri Nedanuri Krishnamurthi . There is no கொச்சை or vulgar word..
Generally rabid bias originates and blurs vision in cases of religious fanaticism,political dogmatism, caste parochialism or linguistic chauvinism..In this case the first three are ruled out.
This gives us a clue as to why some seventy five years ago,in the heart of nadu, reputed tamil vidwans themselves were unwilling and hesitant to sing OOthukadu ,s tamil compositions, as they were erroneously deemed to belong to “bhajanai “or dance sampradhaya which in those days were considered lower.. But which shri chitra veena Ravikiran has now indisputably established that the compositions of Oothukadu are technically in no way inferior to those of the Trinity.

arasi
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#208 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by arasi »

Ponbhairavi,
SariyAi sonnIr (well said)...

mADu mEikkum pATTukku avar pOga mATTArO?
chuDuvarO nalla pATTaiyumE, 'Tup Tup ' enRE?
nADu pugazh MaNiyin gAnathai 'Ai, Uy' enRavarai
kADu vAzh vilangugaLukkoppiDudal aRiyArO?

UTRenap pongi vanda UTRukkADavar pADalai
sITRamoDu siRumai seivarO puliyArumE?
kaTRadellAm ethanai, kaNDaRinadadumE?
veTRu vidaiyai UnRi vaLarpparO isaip payirai?? :(


Won't he go for the cowherd's song?
Would he shoot 'tup tup' at good music?
Those who called Mani's music mere 'Ai Uy'
Were wild beasts, don't we know today?

Eternal spring are UthukkADu kavi's songs
Belittle them, would he, wild feline?
All that he has learned, all perceptions! Yet
Plants empty husks for a harvest of music :(

shankarank
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#209 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by shankarank »

Ponbhairavi wrote: 21 Jul 2018, 11:34 Generally rabid bias originates and blurs vision in cases of religious fanaticism,political dogmatism, caste parochialism or linguistic chauvinism..In this case the first three are ruled out.
This gives us a clue as to why some seventy five years ago,in the heart of nadu, reputed tamil vidwans themselves were unwilling and hesitant to sing OOthukadu ,s tamil compositions, as they were erroneously deemed to belong to “bhajanai “or dance sampradhaya which in those days were considered lower.
Oh so convenient!. You left out the intellectual arrogance of the pre- and post- colonial English educated! They were as much responsible for promoting such attitudes as they were the audience!

ஒருமையில் பேசுவதற்கு மன்னிக்கவும் ! உனக்கு சாப்பாடு போடுதுங்கிறதாலே, அதுக்கு அடிமையாக வேண்டியதில்லை !!

As regards vidvans 75 years back, they were focussed on the kritis they learnt and the laya experience that provided. There were musical reasons (for them at that time!) - so don't bring them in. Give them some leeway as they were just getting to establish the modern concert platform.

As has been amply demonstrated, it is that aspect that is deficient, nothing to do with the selection of kritis. A shanmukananda hall recording has Chembai filling the concert with tAyE yaSOda with Sri Palghat Raghu on Mridangam and by no means it was pedestrian!

arasi
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#210 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by arasi »

No harm done in using quotes to Eka vachana sentence. Then, addressing pErAsiriyar ponbhairavi thus doesn't arise.
Also, it was the french govt which fed his family to start with, I think. veLLaikkAran? Yes. AngilEyan? No...

HarishankarK
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#211 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by HarishankarK »

Oothukadu compositions are harder to learn and execute and demand superior levels of tamil and tala knowledge
In most of his compositions lyrics flow out of bhakthi paravasam

Ponbhairavi
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#212 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Ponbhairavi »

Some factual mistakes:
I am not an “english -educated”
எனக்கு சோறு போடுவது ஆங்கிலம் அன்று.
I am an indian citizen with long years of central govt pensionable service.

shankarank
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#213 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by shankarank »

Ponbhairavi , that you was the figurative "you". Not specifically you!!

harimau
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#214 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by harimau »

ram1999 wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 21:57
Audience expect light music and not heavy stuff and musicians pander to the audience than educating them. If concerts are organized by Sri Lankan community, they expect no renditions of thyagaraja or dikshitar or Shyama sastry.
It gets better -- or worse -- depending on your viewpoint.

When a Thyagaraja Aradhana was organized for the first time in Toronto some 40 years ago, a large Sri Lankan crowd arttended, only to be disappointed that it was not about M K Thyagaraja Bhagavathar! :lol: :lol: :lol:

harimau
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#215 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by harimau »

HarishankarK wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 09:31 Oothukadu compositions are harder to learn and execute and demand superior levels of tamil and tala knowledge
In most of his compositions lyrics flow out of bhakthi paravasam
As DKP once said, there is way too much sahithyam interfering with Music in Oothukkadu compositions! :lol: :? :twisted:

arasi
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#216 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by arasi »

I am almost tempted to say no more sAhityam (words) on my part, so that I can spend more time listening to music!

shankarank
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#217 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by shankarank »

harimau wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 19:25
HarishankarK wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 09:31 Oothukadu compositions are harder to learn and execute and demand superior levels of tamil and tala knowledge
In most of his compositions lyrics flow out of bhakthi paravasam
As DKP once said, there is way too much sahithyam interfering with Music in Oothukkadu compositions! :lol: :? :twisted:
அந்த அம்மாவின் சங்கீதத்தில் கனம் எப்பிடி ஏறியது என்பது அந்த அம்மாவிற்கே அவ்வப்போது மறந்து போதும் . தொண்டை கட்டினால் என்ன இன்னிக்கி பட்டம்மா குரலா என்று கேட்பர். அந்த அம்மாவின் சங்கீதம் லயத்தில் நின்ற சங்கீதம் . ராகம் என்னமோ ஒரு தேவை என்பதுதான் உண்மை!

She sometimes forgets how her music accretes weight. Her music stands on the layam. if somebody has a sore throat people would quip , what today are you singing in PaTTammAL's voice? Ragam was just a necessary condition!

sankark
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#218 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by sankark »

harimau wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 19:25
HarishankarK wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 09:31 Oothukadu compositions are harder to learn and execute and demand superior levels of tamil and tala knowledge
In most of his compositions lyrics flow out of bhakthi paravasam
As DKP once said, there is way too much sahithyam interfering with Music in Oothukkadu compositions! :lol: :? :twisted:
Really? From soneone who was known for prowess in thiruppugazh? Color me very skeptical.

harimau, back to tall tales?

VISHNURAMPRASAD
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#219 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by VISHNURAMPRASAD »

Ten good concerts from the Vidhushi answering all those questions about her vidwath will put an end to the critical views about her. I have heard her concert in the radio (about 2 decades back), found that she was very much in the league of many sangeetha kalanidhis (SK). Of course there are many greats who were beyond SK (too much on top that SK could not see them!) like TNR, MDR, RK, TRS, Somu, Pazhani Subbudu, Srirangam Gopalaratnam, S.Rajam, S.Balachandar, Mali, Voletti and many many Nagaswaram Vidwans who never made it to the academy but when we hear them playing, we would know that they are too much above SK's reach).

sankark
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#220 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by sankark »

VISHNURAMPRASAD wrote: 07 Aug 2018, 16:54 Ten good concerts from the Vidhushi answering all those questions about her vidwath will put an end to the critical views about her.
If nothing else, you can guarantee this: they will find something else to gripe about rather than accept they were wrong.

Nick H
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#221 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Nick H »

VISHNURAMPRASAD wrote: 07 Aug 2018, 16:54 Ten good concerts from the Vidhushi answering all those questions about her vidwath will put an end to the critical views about her. ... ... ...
Good. When will they happening?

HarishankarK
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#222 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by HarishankarK »

VISHNURAMPRASAD wrote: 07 Aug 2018, 16:54 Ten good concerts from the Vidhushi answering all those questions about her vidwath will put an end to the critical views about her. I have heard her concert in the radio (about 2 decades back), found that she was very much in the league of many sangeetha kalanidhis (SK). Of course there are many greats who were beyond SK (too much on top that SK could not see them!) like TNR, MDR, RK, TRS, Somu, Pazhani Subbudu, Srirangam Gopalaratnam, S.Rajam, S.Balachandar, Mali, Voletti and many many Nagaswaram Vidwans who never made it to the academy but when we hear them playing, we would know that they are too much above SK's reach).
Even I think that she has got a lot of vidwath - remember one of her radio concerts where she sang Ardhanareeshwaram and did very nice swaras for Kumudhakriya ragam which is like really rare. The swarams were very beautiful,

Rangadu
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#223 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Rangadu »

VISHNURAMPRASAD wrote: 07 Aug 2018, 16:54 Ten good concerts from the Vidhushi answering all those questions about her vidwath will put an end to the critical views about her. I have heard her concert in the radio (about 2 decades back), found that she was very much in the league of many sangeetha kalanidhis (SK). Of course there are many greats who were beyond SK (too much on top that SK could not see them!) like TNR, MDR, RK, TRS, Somu, Pazhani Subbudu, Srirangam Gopalaratnam, S.Rajam, S.Balachandar, Mali, Voletti and many many Nagaswaram Vidwans who never made it to the academy but when we hear them playing, we would know that they are too much above SK's reach).
The great Veenai Dhanammal (who didn't get the award either) is supposed to have said "Academy va? It seems they 'speak' about music there, not sing it." in her usual sarcastic manner. True, the greatest superstars of Carnatic were way above this award.

Rangadu
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#224 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Rangadu »

ram1999 wrote: 21 Jul 2018, 11:23
ram1999 wrote: 20 Jul 2018, 21:57
Audience expect light music and not heavy stuff and musicians pander to the likes of audience ..

Whose fault it is - musicians for not educating the audience and finding an easy way or the audience who do not have the grasp to listen to heavy traditional music !
I am sure this is what is happening in Mecca of Music too.

Reminds me of Shri T K Rangachari’s bangalore Concert with T Rukmini. The main item is neelambari - the famous kriti of Ponniah Pillai. He goes to say that many of the beautiful kritis and ragas are ignored by musicians and they resort to singing the usual kritis in big 6 ragas which is perhaps an easy affair for both the performer and the audience in appreciating the music. He takes on neelambari / chakravaham / vachaspati and a few more and talks about the beauty and the expanse of these ragas. He says audience should demand good music from musicians else musicians will not take the effort to deliver good music. It is more an admonishing the audience in the most subtle manner for lowering their listening quality 😀. The speech in itself is so beautiful as his music. The alapana is almost a good 10 mins. And a fabulous rendition of Amba Neelambari.

Definitely the class of such musicians are few and rare.
Is there any recording of this Neelambari available anywhere?

Rangadu
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#225 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by Rangadu »

harimau wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 19:25
HarishankarK wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 09:31 Oothukadu compositions are harder to learn and execute and demand superior levels of tamil and tala knowledge
In most of his compositions lyrics flow out of bhakthi paravasam
As DKP once said, there is way too much sahithyam interfering with Music in Oothukkadu compositions! :lol: :? :twisted:
I think most of what is sung today as Oothukadu's compositions might be Chitraveena Ravikiran's masquerading. What is the big deal about them? They are just like any other songs. Not a patch on Trinity. Certainly far from others like Ramadas, Annamachary or Sadasiva Brahmendral.

vijay.siddharth
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#226 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by vijay.siddharth »


vsuresh
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#227 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by vsuresh »

When you say that OVK's krtis are not a patch on Trinity, that one statement is enough to reveal that you haven't done even basic research into either OVK or Trinity or other composers whose names you have dropped. OVK is a brilliant composer to say the least, venerated by every leading vidwan familiar with his works including Musiri, GNB, SSI, MMI and TNS. Perhaps it would be instructive for you to look up www.venkatakavi.org which includes hundreds of his works with lyrics and AVs.

Even the few available compositions of Ravikiran online in youtube clearly showcases the distinctive approaches (and even languages covered) by him or OVK:- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKXaa7 ... V6ZBjlicMw

No one has problems about right to express opinions if they are objective and scholarly enough to be backed by facts.
Last edited by vsuresh on 01 Sep 2018, 14:54, edited 3 times in total.

SrinathK
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#228 Re: Sangeetha Kalanidhi 2018

Post by SrinathK »

vsuresh wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 08:15 When you say that OVK's krtis are not a patch on Trinity, that one statement is enough to reveal that you haven't done your research. OVK is a brilliant composer to say the least, and you should look up www.venkatakavi.org to know more about him. A couple of decades worth of research has gone into this by Sangita Kalanidhi Shri Chitravina N Ravikiran, and the site is meticulously maintained by his disciple Vid Bhargavi Balasubramanian. OVK has also been the favorite composer of greats like Sangita Kalanidhi Shri T N Seshagopalan Sir and Padma Shri Awardees Rudrapatnam Brothers, including others. However, Shri Ravikiran has clearly been the most vocal proponent of OVK's compositions. That said, he is not somebody who will ever take credit for somebody else's works. He himself has 800+ compositions to his credit and a small subset of that is available on his channel here :- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKXaa7 ... V6ZBjlicMw Shri Ravikiran has taken much inspiration from several composers, OVK clearly being one of them!
Leave him, he's been venting rage and scorn in most of his posts. The last thing you want to do is to assume that such characters actually want a discussion.

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