Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

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ramamatya
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by ramamatya »

Thappu panravaalukku ivvalavu support-aa ?

@Ranganayaki: Referencing or reviewing is not the same as addressing to the public.

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

sureshvv wrote: 21 Mar 2018, 11:59 Love is more powerful than Respect.
But if there is no respect, love will fade off.

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

ramamatya wrote: 21 Mar 2018, 12:39 Thappu panravaalukku ivvalavu support-aa ?

@Ranganayaki: Referencing or reviewing is not the same as addressing to the public.
Well said. No doubt that Pantula Rama's intentions are good but this blemish could have been avoided. Even the poet Nakkeerar was not spared even though he was great!!

arasi
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by arasi »

Deleted because post got truncated while posting. The next post which appeared after this is complete.
Last edited by arasi on 21 Mar 2018, 18:19, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by arasi »

Here's a classy musician and musicologist who seems dignified in her manners and in her performances who opines on the way in which folks sing the sage's compositions.
Another tumbai viTTu vAlaip piDikkiRa kadai here--trying to catch the calf by its tail instead of by its tether:(
As for us, showing sage T real respect and love is to focus on how he himself would have liked the lines to be sung, and not dwell on less important issues.
Last edited by arasi on 21 Mar 2018, 18:43, edited 2 times in total.

RaviSri
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by RaviSri »

RAVI SRI, any comment on this from the Dhanammal School???
As far as I know this extra charanam is not there in the Dhanammal version. But I don't know from where B-M learnt the pancharatnams, whether inside the family or from Naina Pillai. As far as I know, Naina Pillai did not sing any pancharatnam.

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

RAVI SRI: Thanks for the clarification. Another question: Are the THILLAISTHANAM and UMAYALPURAM SCHOOLS in agreement in so far as the PANCHARATHNAMS are concerned?

bhakthim dehi
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Sri AM Chinnasamy Mudaliyar mentions about pancharatnam. Perhaps, he was the first person to use this term.
AMC has consulted not only Walajapet Sri Krishnaswamy Bhagavathar, but also Umayalpuram brothers. So, Umayalpuram disciples too were in agreement with this grouping.
With respect to Thillaisthanam school, Dr Srinivasaraghavan 's disciple Sri Parthasarathy has included all these 5 krithis in their collection of Tyagarajar krithis. But, Thillaistanam Sri Narasimha Bhagavathar didn't mention such a grouping in his book. Neither he has given all the charanam of kanakanaruchira krithi.

ramamatya
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by ramamatya »

Accepting mistakes is the hallmark of humility in a true musician/human being.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

MaheshS wrote: 20 Mar 2018, 19:17
HarishankarK wrote: 20 Mar 2018, 06:07 But he is also a Saint - surely the title shd have been used.
Only in for some people. For example check blogs from Sanjay Sub or Sriram V, Thyagaraja all the time. No Swami, no Saint ...

Personally speaking, the "pancharathnams" have been horribly butchered by the goshti singing, time to put an end to this charade.
Nobody beatified him so he is not a Saint! svAmi - the "sva" is the self - he lifted himself up. She is not out there saying like the "rookie" MA Secretary that she won't call him with "svAmi" categorically. In this case she is reasoning with people, so the focus is on the substance of the kriti.

The best tribute we can give to tyAgarAja is to not get up during Mridangam tani and walk out! And improve our tastes for the laya accompaniment during his kriti renditions - so we get to demand more from all the artistes not just the singers. We should try that first!

ramamatya
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by ramamatya »

Despite everything you say, it is still unconvincing that one can address Saint Tyagarajar publicly as a mere "Tyagaraju". Being disrespectful and clothing it as casual and hundred other such flimsy reasons is fast becoming the new norm and penetrating into traditional and civilized Carnatic music field - probably the negative tricklings of the Carnatic ecosystem's exposure to casual American culture <sigh>.
Last edited by ramamatya on 23 Mar 2018, 09:44, edited 1 time in total.

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

"
Nobody beatified him so he is not a Saint!
"
I wanted to leave this matter but your words are condemnable. To me not addressing the great composer who is considered as an Avatara or Sri Narada Himself, as a Saint is like giving the same disrespect as the recent disrespect shown to Goddess Andal few months ago.
Not respecting as required and disrespecting is one and the same.

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

"
The best tribute we can give to tyAgarAja is to not get up during Mridangam tani and walk out! "
What has this got to do with anything? This is done and dusted topic - those who appreaciate laya can stay - those who don't are free to stay or leave as they please.

ramamatya
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by ramamatya »

shankarank wrote: 22 Mar 2018, 10:41
Nobody beatified him so he is not a Saint! svAmi - the "sva" is the self - he lifted himself up.
Are you sure? By beatification, you mean beatification by mutts? If so, I think that is not the only beatification authority. Did any mutt beatify Ramana Maharishi? Who would have beatified the founders of the mutts - for example, Shri Adi Shankaracharyar, Shri Ramanujacharyar or Shri Madhvacharyar? What abt the north indian saints - sant tukkaram, sant kabirdas, and so on? Beatification angle is not warranted here.

kvchellappa
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by kvchellappa »

As i understand, it does not matter which refrain the singer returns to at the end of each charanam (I am sure everyone is not going to fall in line), but it is earth-shaking how the composer is referred to as. From post 14 onwards, but for one by Sri MKS, all posts are on this aspect. That is 30 posts are on one expression by the writer, and 14 are on the subject matter.

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

I want to raise an important question here.

Unfortunately with regard to carnatic music compositions of Sri Tyagarajar there is so much uncertainity -
so many compositions are missing
so many compositions ragas are changed
so many compositions have additional sangatis or different sangatis from the available (source not confirmed) notations
So many compositions with talam and kalapramanam changes
So many compositions which are disputed as the Saints compositions or not including the Pancharatnams themselves which I read somewhere but cannot recall
So many schools/banis with different singing styles for His compositions
So many more things about these compositions could have gone wrong that we donot know

Even now when Smt Pantula Rama has tried to remedy something - still there is so much doubt and contention in this forum itself if what she is prescribing to change is correct or not - who knows maybe this is also wrong!

Amidst this chaos what are we going to do? No one can say for certain that by merely changing the line where charanams are appended to this Pancharatnam in Arabhi - we can say now it is exact as per the vision/composition of the Saint.
This is the situation of our carnatic music - we just have to accept it and move on.
Looks to me that as long as bhakthi and raga is there no harm in tampering to suit one's style / improvisations etc.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

ramamatya wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 11:42
shankarank wrote: 22 Mar 2018, 10:41
Nobody beatified him so he is not a Saint! svAmi - the "sva" is the self - he lifted himself up.
Are you sure? By beatification, you mean beatification by mutts? If so, I think that is not the only beatification authority. Did any mutt beatify Ramana Maharishi?
You should check the meaning of beatification online. I used it only as given in the dictionary. Even in the generic meaning wouldn't apply : " to make supremely happy". He found his own bliss.
ramamatya wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 09:24 Being disrespectful and clothing it as casual and hundred other such flimsy reasons is fast becoming the new norm and penetrating into traditional and civilized Carnatic music field
Traditional is good. Civilized is something westerners did to us. That is an existential need. Many times I have been uncivilized in the forum it seems, simply because I am offended by the notions being bandied about. But I myself have sung nAda bramham nAda bramham sathguru tyAga bramham as a young boy. I first wanted to be in the plane everybody is ( a sadas dharmam) and argue there, before I bring things too contextual to my upbringing. I thought, it is best to avoid overt display of religiosity - when all such things have been classified and othered under the head "religious".

Also in Indian traditions there is no insistence , unless within the family or a Guru tradition, of doing things in a certain way.

Nevertheless , since you two of you brought it up, I will notate his reference as SrI tyAgarAja svAmi. That is not to prove to you that I respect him. Rather I respect the "sadas Dharmam" of this forum - you all first.

How to address him according to convention is in itself debatable. He attained siddhi as SrI nAdabramhAnanda if we accept the story of his sanyas. Aradhana can be done only to those that took sanyas. Again that is not beatification by any authority by any means.

It seems you all have never noticed so far in the forum and suddenly apply this to only a musician. The intention seem to be only to provoke something. Like the "hypocrisy" argument. If she questions others, she should be clean first - yeah?. My retort is in the same vein. That people should also respect the sAdhana of any guru parampara ( Mridangam included!) and SrI tyAgarAja svAmi himself extols nAda. If you have not questioned so far - with million song lists and reviews, suddenly why this provocation?

As regards "saint" there are some generic meanings also - 4 & 5 in this:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/saint

But the first 3 are pre-eminent and hence I want to resist the use of the word. That goes back to your question about authority!

As regards honorifics, in tamizh "adigal" is added. The reference to the feet. As in Bhagavat pAda. Ilango Adigal is how he is referred to - the author of silapadikAram.. And tamizh civilization is not a pan Indian civilization it seems! I received a good explanation for it recently- The feet walks the path and we try our best to follow it.
Last edited by shankarank on 23 Mar 2018, 23:54, edited 2 times in total.

isramesh
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by isramesh »

In Telugu people generally address Tyagaraja as Tyagaraju or more frequently as Tyagayya. Smt Rama has many times in the past in her speaches addressed him as Tyagayya and Tyagaraju as well. Similarly we call Rama as RAmudu, krishna as krishudu, Siva as Sivudu - something to do with the prathama vibhakti.
I dont think Smt. Rama showed any disrespect to Tyagayya in referring to him as Tyagaraju.

sivakami
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by sivakami »

isramesh wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 23:05 In Telugu people generally address Tyagaraja as Tyagaraju or more frequently as Tyagayya. Smt Rama has many times in the past in her speaches addressed him as Tyagayya and Tyagaraju as well. Similarly we call Rama as RAmudu, krishna as krishudu, Siva as Sivudu - something to do with the prathama vibhakti.
I dont think Smt. Rama showed any disrespect to Tyagayya in referring to him as Tyagaraju.
Exactly, we people who listen to/speak Telugu constantly feel that way only......
No disrespect...

arasi
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by arasi »

RamagAru, if we care to scroll all the way up, offers her ugAdi greetings to all. Let's reciprocate.
Happy ugAdi, hosa varushA, tamizh puthANDu wishes to all who are reading this thread and have posted in it!

rshankar
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by rshankar »

Thank you, Ramesh and Sivakami - hopefully, this put an end to needless comments, and we can stick to the substance of the post.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

HarishankarK wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 10:10 "
The best tribute we can give to tyAgarAja is to not get up during Mridangam tani and walk out! "
What has this got to do with anything? This is done and dusted topic - those who appreaciate laya can stay - those who don't are free to stay or leave as they please.
HarishankarK wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 15:18 Looks to me that as long as bhakthi and raga is there no harm in tampering to suit one's style / improvisations etc.
No ..no...no.. not that fast svAmi. If your need to feel the moments of bhakti based on rAgA, needs be to intact amidst all the prevalent chaos, then everything else is also important. What is done and dusted?

Lets be done and dusted about "art" music then. Why do you write reviews and why do you comment on music then? I am not questioning that a bhava filled experience is incomplete or invalid by any means. But you cannot use that to justify any other deficiencies. Once you open your mouth or start writing, nothing is done and dusted.

And all the things you mentioned from 1..N are all completely invalid questions. It does not matter how much you document and notate and preserve. If one generation decides , there is nothing in this, out goes the memory of it. In form and extent , things may be lost. But the nature of this is that, it can be re-discovered. Well not in the exact form, but the principles of it certainly. That is where a sAdhaka that practices and introspects is central to sampradAyA! So it is not important how much we lost and what changed. The fact that sAdhana is done by itself means there is diversity of bAnis, sampradayas.

So all your questions are based on historicity - typical of the notions carried by West and Christianity - all their narrative is based on historical preserves.

ramamatya
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by ramamatya »

isramesh wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 23:05 In Telugu people generally address Tyagaraja as Tyagaraju or more frequently as Tyagayya.
Exactly my point. So, Tyagaraju in Telugu = Tyagaraja in Tamil. Tyagaraju is NOT a respectful way of addressing as we here will not address as Tyagaraja but Tyagarajar. The way Saint Tyagarajar was addressed in the fb post is an OBVIOUS mistake that only needs to be corrected. There was no need to waste so many posts (posts from #14 except maybe one or two, thanks to kvchellappa's statistics) denying, defending and supporting mistakes.

Like I mentioned before, the penetration of the casual culture of US has probably caused such confusions in basic communication values and hence a stubbornness to understand facts. <sigh>

Accepting mistakes in the hallmark of humility in a true musician/human being.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

ramamatya wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 07:41 With all due respects to Vidushi Pantula Rama, I need to remark that the beginning of the post itself turned me off. Is it common among Telugu people to address Saint Tyagarajar as "Tyagaraju" (Checked her FB post too)? Is it not Tyagarajar or Tyagaraja garu or so? I'm happy to be proved wrong.
isramesh wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 23:05 In Telugu people generally address Tyagaraja as Tyagaraju or more frequently as Tyagayya.
Your original question has been answered in the affirmative. Now you cannot blame it on casual US culture or anything.

As I said you raising an issue of disrespect in this instance is not genuine when you have not raised any voice against disregard for generation of artistes, the musical rasika community ( who are all in the know!) have done. That is not just Mridangists in fact.

And I am not disagreeing that people should revere and respect prominent vaggEyakkaras and bhaktas.

But elevating SrI tyAgarAja svAmi as some son of god and rest are all some sinners who need no regard is not the way our traditions need to work as well. That is more the difference that should be noted. U.S casualism can be fixed easily if that is indeed the issue.

If anything Smt. Pantula Rama chose the much maligned forum of Facebook to air this. I am not sure if she felt constrained with raising it in vidvat sadas type forums or with organizers of the Aradhana or fellow senior musicians. She has given Lec Dems in Chennai - may be she felt that may not reach many people.

I would rather stick with receiving the message at this point. If you have any arguments against that that may be worthwhile to post.
Last edited by shankarank on 24 Mar 2018, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.

sivakami
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by sivakami »

ramamatya wrote:
Accepting mistakes in the hallmark of humility in a true musician/human being.
Ok if that is so,
shankarank wrote:
If anything Smt. Pantula Rama chose the much maligned forum of Facebook to air this
Wont it be a good idea to write to her either on FB or some other means, or speak to her, rather than posting here, which, she may not be seeing at all..

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

Well I am responding to a poster here. As I have stated, many times we don't know the feelings and limitations of artistes, lets given them the benefit of doubt. I would rather focus on what else is communicated by her.

kvchellappa
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by kvchellappa »

Pantula Rama's lovable response in FB:
"Namaste !
There are three kings (Rajus) who rule the field of Telugu Literature -Potaraju (Bammera Potana), Goparaju (Kancharla Gopanna/Bhadrachala Ramadasu) and Tyagaraju (Kakarla Tyagaraju). They are referred as the 3 Rajus very fondly, lovingly and with utmost reverence. However Sri Tyagaraju continues to be addressed as Tyagayya, Ayyagaru, Tyagaraja, Tyaga Brahmam, Tyagaraja Swami Saint or Sant Tyagaraja etc. I hope this answers the queries raised by some readers and we can move on to the primary objective of the open letter- to make a very genuine and necessary change in the way Sādhinchenē is sung."
It is inappropriate (to use mild language) to expect that everyone should follow the Tamizh convention.
Hope rasikas will move on.

arasi
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by arasi »

Graceful she is...
Luckily, she didn't address her angst about how telugu sometimes sounds when those who don't know the language sing our beloved Rama bhaktha's songs.
Graceful she is...
Once again, happy new year to her and to all!

sureshvv
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by sureshvv »

The last paragraph gives me pause. Hope she does not conclude that these cranks represent the Tamilian view.

Sundara Rajan
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by Sundara Rajan »

My two cents worth on the name controversy: Raja is a sanskrit word-
Raja, Rajanow, Rajanah:
Just as Rama in Sanskrit becomes Ramar in Tamil , Sanskrit Raja in Telugu may be Raju( I do not profess to know Telugu) and hence does not reflect any disrespect.

RajagOpAlAchAri was "too mouthful" for a Gujarati ( as Americans would refer to my original name "Sundararajan" ) and hence Gandhi made it "Raja" and added the Hindi honor suffix "ji" and made him "RAjAji" !

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

kvchellappa wrote: 24 Mar 2018, 09:17 Pantula Rama's lovable response in FB:
"Namaste !
There are three kings (Rajus) who rule the field of Telugu Literature -Potaraju (Bammera Potana), Goparaju (Kancharla Gopanna/Bhadrachala Ramadasu) and Tyagaraju (Kakarla Tyagaraju). They are referred as the 3 Rajus very fondly, lovingly and with utmost reverence. However Sri Tyagaraju continues to be addressed as Tyagayya, Ayyagaru, Tyagaraja, Tyaga Brahmam, Tyagaraja Swami Saint or Sant Tyagaraja etc. I hope this answers the queries raised by some readers and we can move on to the primary objective of the open letter- to make a very genuine and necessary change in the way Sādhinchenē is sung."
It is inappropriate (to use mild language) to expect that everyone should follow the Tamizh convention.
Hope rasikas will move on.
So good of her to clarify this. And the explanation is satisfactory - so all good now.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

HarishankarK wrote: 24 Mar 2018, 19:43 - so all good now.
Done and dusted? :twisted: :lol: True for Smt. Pantula Rama. But not yourself. What is the denomination of your Church ( now don't read this too literally, wilya?! ;) ) - which teaches all this "how to address the greats - stuff"? If you say it is not a Church , but culture, then there many diverse ones. So you need to be able to understand and talk across - and not impose your ideas on others! The latter is what Churches tend to do. They created this subaltern theory where they have to go and emancipate and civilize them!
Last edited by shankarank on 25 Mar 2018, 00:26, edited 1 time in total.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

sureshvv wrote: 24 Mar 2018, 09:33 The last paragraph gives me pause. Hope she does not conclude that these cranks represent the Tamilian view.
Your sentence gives me a pause too. There is lot of confusion about "tamizh" identity now. It is being reduced to some imaginary substrate onto which new concoctions can be added and then the substrate can be made invisible! May be some of the posts here are symptoms of those under currents!

HarishankarK
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

shankarank wrote: 25 Mar 2018, 00:06
HarishankarK wrote: 24 Mar 2018, 19:43 - so all good now.
Done and dusted? :twisted: :lol: True for Smt. Pantula Rama. But not yourself. What is the denomination of your Church ( now don't read this too literally, wilya?! ;) ) - which teaches all this "how to address the greats - stuff"? If you say it is not a Church , but culture, then there many diverse ones. So you need to be able to understand and talk across - and not impose your ideas on others! The latter is what Churches tend to do. They created this subaltern theory where they have to go and emancipate and civilize them!
Boss - what's ur problem now? Pantula Rama ji could have ignored our points here but she did not - instead she has clarified and that's perfect - we now know that as per Telugu stds. no disrespect has been done. Which is good.
In a public forum you cannot address someone according to Telugu parlance - everyone does not know Telugu way of speaking and what is respectful or not in Telugu. So it was raised that the addressing could have been done a bit better as the request is in English and not Telugu and it is going to carnatic music fraternity.

As you see in her words there is no apology or regret - we have not imposed anything - no apology is required - its clear now that as she has clarified the parlance in which she wrote.
Better to leave this matter and focus now on what's the subject of her request.

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

HarishankarK wrote: 25 Mar 2018, 02:43 In a public forum you cannot address someone according to Telugu parlance
As I said we are done and dusted with Smt Pantula Rama. So don't bring her in anymore. We are focusing on you now! Where is the above rule written? If you don't understand telugu, how do you know "tyagaraju " is disrespectful?

rshankar
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by rshankar »

ShankaranK - that’s a question for the poster who initially felt it was disrespectful....the poster who, in his/her dealings had been as respectful as Brutus was honorable....

shankarank
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

Well the second poster also joined in and now makes a statement that implies there has been lack of respect. And he is the one talking now.

As regards the style of addressing in the world of tamizh, if you have heard the paTTimanRams, kambar is addressed as kamban, valluvar is addressed as valluvan , as in valluvan kUTru etc.

HarishankarK
Posts: 2216
Joined: 27 Oct 2007, 11:55

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by HarishankarK »

shankarank wrote: 25 Mar 2018, 04:18
HarishankarK wrote: 25 Mar 2018, 02:43 In a public forum you cannot address someone according to Telugu parlance
As I said we are done and dusted with Smt Pantula Rama. So don't bring her in anymore. We are focusing on you now! Where is the above rule written? If you don't understand telugu, how do you know "tyagaraju " is disrespectful?
Do you know English and Telugu are two different language?

Anyways I don't hv any more time for this. My decree stands and I am very satisfied with explanation given. You can go on posting .....I will ignore any further posts from u on this matter.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

You cannot ask a question and say I will not listen to your answer. Then don't ask it and post anything.

In English parlance what is the respectful way? Mr tyAgarAja or Mr Kakarla? or Sir tyAgarAja or tyAgaraja saar?

nanosadagopan
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Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 09:06

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by nanosadagopan »

In my earmest appeal to Vidushi Smt Pantula Rama, I lay here my humble opinioin: Carnatic music needs some refreshing changes to the way its music is performed, and when the changes revert to original ways of singing, it's all the more better (reverting to singing swarasahityas suffixed by Sadhinchane rather than the now prevalent Samayaniki). I completely share her concerns. It's my humble request to Smt Rama to.take up the lead and be the role model - your statutre and wide appeal to the next generation will be a pioneer in bringing the much needed transformational changes.

kvchellappa
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Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by kvchellappa »

She must also be a role model for how to focus on the theme and not on bigoted views on decorum.
'My decree stands'? This is not a court and no one is a judge. Nothing stands. Everything passes. Even the plea to change the way Sadhinchane is sung will pass.
Any request to Smt Pantula Rama, a graceful and classic singer, must be posted where she will notice it. Any point of order about her writing also must go there if the idea is to understand.
No apology was due in any case from her. Possibly, we owe her an apology.


arasi
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Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by arasi »

Meditative, meaningfully sung, no accompanists--though one is ready at hand :) Making a statement, so agreeably, from her own home (?). Even the 'samayAniki tagu mATalADEvADu appears while she sings, playing his silent flute ;)

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by Ranganayaki »

I enjoyed it too, and she is very convincing.

shankarank
Posts: 4042
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by shankarank »

We discussed her book in this thread ( yati maitri and chanda prAsa). sAdhincenE goes well in terms of dIRgha with most caraNams.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30597

And yes it is indeed convincing, samaya -> amarica -> vimukula -> tamasamAdi for dvitiyAkshara and
samaya -> sadbhaktula, amarica -> aluka , vimukula -> veta kalikina , tamasamAdi -> tyAgaraja for EkAkshara.

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 539
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Muhana and praasam in the charanam is independent of pallavi and anupallavi. It means, the second or first letter in the charanam(s) need not rhyme with sadinchane or samayaniki. Refer to the divya nama keerthanam of the Saint for better understanding.
Also, I wonder on the use of the word anubandam here. Why the last charanam is to be called an anubandam?
Anubandam is used only in the case of varanam, a detailed charanam sung at the end of ettukada svaram. She also interlude the last charanam with samayaniki. This makes her valuable effort useless.

Ranganayaki
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Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by Ranganayaki »

bhakthim dehi wrote: 27 Mar 2018, 16:15 She also interlude the last charanam with samayaniki. This makes her valuable effort useless.
It is impossible to understand your meaning. Interlude is not an action and cannot be used as a verb in your sentence. Please rewrite, expressing only what you meant.

bhakthim dehi
Posts: 539
Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 21:28

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Thanks for your correction.. If you cannot understand, leave it.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by sureshvv »

arasi wrote: 26 Mar 2018, 18:39 Meditative, meaningfully sung
Ninnu joochi madiri varala :D

Ranganayaki
Posts: 1760
Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23

Re: Vidushi Pantula Rama's open letter to all musicians and music lovers on “Sādhinchenē”

Post by Ranganayaki »

bhakthim dehi wrote: 27 Mar 2018, 21:10 If you cannot understand, leave it.
It's not about me, Bhaktim. You wrote here because you wanted to communicate something to most of us here, but I'm afraid your purpose is not served. In addition, if we all have to "leave it," as you say, then your conclusion that follows is orphaned and cannot be validated. Anyway you have contradicted yourself: valuable effort that is also useless!??!
bhakthim dehi wrote: 27 Mar 2018, 16:15
Also, I wonder on the use of the word anubandam here. Why the last charanam is to be called an anubandam?
Anubandam is used only in the case of varanam, a detailed charanam sung at the end of ettukada svaram.
I guess it is called an anubandham because it is an add-on after all the charanams. It cannot be called a charanam on the same footing as the others because it does not have the explicit swaras. Calling it an anubandham would distinguish it from the other charanams and give it a status of its own and a suitable name as an anga of the composition.

She also interlude the last charanam with samayaniki. This makes her valuable effort useless.
No matter what you might mean there, she does nothing to the last charanam with Samayaniki. She sings the last charanam, returns to pallavi and then proceeds to the anubandham, the first line of which is "Samayaniki..."

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