How to apply Vibhoothi Pattai for carnatic concert

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 27 Mar 2018, 11:12

Hi everyone

I know I am asking a very silly and basic question. Last week I sang at a bhajan function and needed to be in traditional appearance for that.
I really, really struggled to get three distinct, dense stripe marks of vibhoothi on my forehead. Not only last week - I have been struggling with this vibhoothi thing for a long period now and thinking about it - I searched the internet even but in vain.

I see some persons/elders etc., - they have really neat, dense and clear three stripes of vibhoothi on their forehead - I look at them and say to myself - "whaaaat! How did he get that?".

Can someone help?
Not sure if this post is relevant here or under History and Culture - but I have put it here hoping to get more views.

Thank you,
Harishankar

Sachi_R · Post by **Sachi_R** » 27 Mar 2018, 11:46

Great question. Although I imagine the quality of a man's or woman's विभूति stripes is a heavenly measure of his/her holiness in day-to-day life.

I have sourced a fine video for you!

ramamatya · Post by **ramamatya** » 27 Mar 2018, 11:48

If its any help: my Guru used to say that the three neat, dense and clear Viboothi stripes (of which you are so wonder-struck) look very artificial !

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 27 Mar 2018, 11:54

ramamatya wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:48 If its any help: my Guru used to say that the three neat, dense and clear Viboothi stripes (of which you are so wonder-struck) look very artificial !

Your Guru may be right - but nevertheless I want to have that

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 27 Mar 2018, 12:24

Sachi_R wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:46 I have sourced a fine video for you!

Thank you - but I am looking for the wet method and not dry method
I didn't know that women also apply vibhoothi - never seen one like that

Sachi_R · Post by **Sachi_R** » 27 Mar 2018, 12:29

Sir,
I daresay there would be NO wet method.
If you wet vibhuti, it will granulate and resist smearing.

Remember applying vibhuti is a devotional act and represents surrender to the Permanent by eschewing the impermanent existence represented by ash.

If you follow Telugu, there is another how-to video, without a demo.
https://youtu.be/9Cq2Sc8jNQI

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 27 Mar 2018, 15:00

#1 Harishankar ; Make a vibhooti paste (vibhooti+drops of water) in your left palm . Take it on to your three fingers of your right hand. Ensure it is spread fully on to the length of the fingers. Apply the fingers (without leaving any space between them)
on to your forehead from left to right. Once the Vibhuti dries ,you have a broad band of it on the forehead. Hold a thread
between two hands and rub off along two equi distant lines so as to cut the Vibhuti band into 3 equal parts.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Mar 2018, 15:11

HarishankarK wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:12 I see some persons/elders etc., - they have really neat, dense and clear three stripes of vibhoothi on their forehead - I look at them and say to myself - "whaaaat! How did he get that?".

And double, triple, quadruple that for namum!

I'm in awe of how that is done so accurately, and is still there, and neat, at the end of a sweaty concert!

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 27 Mar 2018, 15:54

HarishankarK wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:12 I see some persons/elders etc., - they have really neat, dense and clear three stripes of vibhoothi on their forehead - I look at them and say to myself - "whaaaat! How did he get that?".

Apply pattai as normal, when it's semi-set, use poonal to normalise lines and create gaps between one line and another.

Edited to add: it's all dependant on the size of you fingers. Mine are not thick, but thin and long so I don't need any manual adjustments

I will see if I can find a pic somewhere!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 27 Mar 2018, 17:14

Thanks everyone
Keep sending other tips videos etc.,
They shd probably teach this also during Yagnopaveetham ceremony (sacred thread ceremony)

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 27 Mar 2018, 17:14

Thanks everyone
Keep sending other tips videos etc.,
They shd probably teach this also during Yagnopaveetham ceremony (sacred thread ceremony)

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 27 Mar 2018, 17:48

Some one with knowledge of shAstram can verify - I recall having read recently somewhere that wet paste method is applicable only to sanyAsins? or atleast grahastAs aren't supposed to do so but only use the dry vibhUthi.

sreebeecane · Post by **sreebeecane** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:00

As a Srivaishnava, I thought applying tenkalai tirumaNN was hard. Anyway, I digress.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:05

sankark wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 17:48 Some one with knowledge of shAstram can verify - I recall having read recently somewhere that wet paste method is applicable only to sanyAsins? or atleast grahastAs aren't supposed to do so but only use the dry vibhUthi.

This is all purely for the sake of appearance for a concert

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:09

HarishankarK wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 17:14 They shd probably teach this also during Yagnopaveetham ceremony (sacred thread ceremony)

They do, well at least they did for me.
Forhead first, right to left, Kesava.
With your right hand, apply on left hand top, Narayana.
With your left hand, apply on rigth hand top, Madhava.
Etc etc.

What they don't teach you is how to make it *look* neat and symmetric and what not. And that has nothing to do with Yagnopaveetham ceremony or the reason for applying it in the first place.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:11

I tend to agree with R Sachi "Remember applying vibhuti is a devotional act and represents surrender to the Permanent by eschewing the impermanent existence represented by ash"

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:16

VK RAMAN wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 19:11 I tend to agree with R Sachi "Remember applying vibhuti is a devotional act and represents surrender to the Permanent by eschewing the impermanent existence represented by ash"

Well that's all good and fine, but the question posted was not asking for the reason, it was asking for HOW to make it look neat and tidy for a concert appearance.

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:37

Purist wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 15:00 #1 Harishankar ; Make a vibhooti paste (vibhooti+drops of water) in your left palm . Take it on to your three fingers of your right hand. Ensure it is spread fully on to the length of the fingers. Apply the fingers (without leaving any space between them)
on to your forehead from left to right. Once the Vibhuti dries ,you have a broad band of it on the forehead. Hold a thread
between two hands and rub off along two equi distant lines so as to cut the Vibhuti band into 3 equal parts.

You can use the upavItham itself as a thread - it is a genuine multipurpose tool, doing this, keeping a small key on person, and so on - at least I do on occasion

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Mar 2018, 19:51

HarishankarK wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:12 Hi everyone ... I see some persons/elders etc., - they have really neat, dense and clear three stripes of vibhoothi on their forehead - I look at them and say to myself - "whaaaat! How did he get that?".

Can someone help?

Consult Malladi Brothers !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Mar 2018, 01:11

Bala,
Glad you chimed in! Hope someone doesn't raise the question if this thread belongs in the lounge along with lungis and flax seeds

These are serious times and a tinge of humor makes the somewhat cynical and questioning air around here less challenging.
Going on the stage doesn't necessarily mean you have to learn how to wear the caste marks too. Seriously, aren't the shops selling sticker vibhuthi for those who sport it only for cosmetic reasons (as pottu-s, tilak?)--and not for religious reasons?

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 01:36

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 19:51
HarishankarK wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 11:12 Hi everyone ... I see some persons/elders etc., - they have really neat, dense and clear three stripes of vibhoothi on their forehead - I look at them and say to myself - "whaaaat! How did he get that?".

Can someone help?
Consult Malladi Brothers !

Ha ha

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 01:40

arasi wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 01:11 Bala,
Glad you chimed in! Hope someone doesn't raise the question if this thread belongs in the lounge along with lungis and flax seeds These are serious times and a tinge of humor makes the somewhat cynical and questioning air around here less challenging.
Going on the stage doesn't necessarily mean you have to learn how to wear the caste marks too. Seriously, aren't the shops selling sticker vibhuthi for those who sport it only for cosmetic reasons (as pottu-s, tilak?)--and not for religious reasons?

I would like to clarify here that I am not requesting this information for appearance sakes. I apply this style of vibhoothi at home as well on important occassions and even I am going to weddings (muhoorthams not reception). So I am anyways doing it regularly - all I wanted to know was how to do it well - so that it looks nice and can be sustained for longer time.
Agree with you - don't think that we shd apply vibhoothi merely for appearance

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 01:42

sankark wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 17:48 Some one with knowledge of shAstram can verify - I recall having read recently somewhere that wet paste method is applicable only to sanyAsins? or atleast grahastAs aren't supposed to do so but only use the dry vibhUthi.

Really - was not aware of this - I have been using wet method ever since childhood - my dad and father in law also do the same. I mean vibhoothiya kozhaichchu ittukaradhu ( to make a paste with water and applying technique)
Next time I will ask my home priest about this when I meet him.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 01:44

Purist wrote: ↑27 Mar 2018, 15:00 #1 Harishankar ; Make a vibhooti paste (vibhooti+drops of water) in your left palm . Take it on to your three fingers of your right hand. Ensure it is spread fully on to the length of the fingers. Apply the fingers (without leaving any space between them)
on to your forehead from left to right. Once the Vibhuti dries ,you have a broad band of it on the forehead. Hold a thread
between two hands and rub off along two equi distant lines so as to cut the Vibhuti band into 3 equal parts.

Will try this next time and give feedback

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 28 Mar 2018, 05:41

arasi wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 01:11 Bala,
Glad you chimed in! Hope someone doesn't raise the question if this thread belongs in the lounge along with lungis and flax seeds These are serious times and a tinge of humor makes the somewhat cynical and questioning air around here less challenging.
Going on the stage doesn't necessarily mean you have to learn how to wear the caste marks too. Seriously, aren't the shops selling sticker vibhuthi for those who sport it only for cosmetic reasons (as pottu-s, tilak?)--and not for religious reasons?

Well said Arasiji.
IMO This topic can be shifted to members lounge if possible.
With wishes,
Thanjavooran
28 03 2018

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 28 Mar 2018, 05:49

HarishankarK wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 01:42 ... I have been using wet method ever since childhood - my dad and father in law also do the same. I mean vibhoothiya kozhaichchu ittukaradhu ( to make a paste with water and applying technique)
Next time I will ask my home priest about this when I meet him.

Bhasma-Jabala Upanishad and Kalagni-Rudra Upanishad mention that the sacred ash should be mixed with water and then applied.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 28 Mar 2018, 06:22

I was told that in the morning and evening, we must apply it dry, but after bathing we must kuzhacchufy it.
A friend, an ardent devotee of Kanchi Swamingal, told me this. When he was visiting Manasarovar, Swamigal told him to apply vibhuthi after bathing in the cold water and that would quickly warm up the body.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 11:17

Looks like we have a similar state (dashai) here as the Thyagaraja kruthis !
This is the biggest problem I have with our religion and traditions - there is no proper authority on any of the aspects - within Tamils itself - here we have so many views on how the vibhoothi shd be applied. God knows which one is correct.
For Karthigai day in my father's side they have tradition of making Adai with pepper for dinner - this tradition is not followed in my wife's family although they are also from Tirunelveli only.

Now please someone don't reply back saying that all methods are correct as long as you are doing with bhakthi.

Why is there no easy almanac for Hindus to refer to on matters such as these?

The other day I sang a Rama Navami bhajan with a group - where the main person whom we were supporting in the bhajan was suggesting to conclude the bhajan with Pavamana - when another person sang (during rehearsal) Pavamana in Saurashtram - this main person couldn't identify the raga - looks like Saurashtram did not appeal that much to him (the singers rendition too left much to be desired) and the main person suggested that the singer sing Pavamana instead in Madhyamavathi - I was horrified at the suggestion and immediately and strongly informed that Tyagaraja kruthis cannot be tampered with in such a manner. But I was informed back that in bhajanai if you sing with bhakthi there is no issue if we change the ragam.
I argued and there was a lot of discomfort in the air but in the actual bhajan I ensured Pavamana was sung in Saurashtram only (although a bit messed up).

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 28 Mar 2018, 13:04

Is it mangalam for the topic?

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 28 Mar 2018, 13:29

kvchellappa wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 13:04 Is it mangalam for the topic?

Isn't that what we do for most questions raised on traditions and related matters? Leave the matter unresolved or shove it under the carpet.
Now I can appreciate Bharatiyar's anger at our hypocrisies?

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 28 Mar 2018, 14:24

PS.

Basically, application of vibhuti is a type of branding, like similar other types. These are used to encourage the group members to brand themselves, to declare their affinity and loyalty to the group.

First comes the brand, then the materials used and then the method of application. Very soon, various explanations are offered on all these; variations are suggested and justified !

Over a period, group members become so much attached that they start extending the application of the brand to their buildings, doors, lamps, animals, etc. etc. !

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Mar 2018, 15:38

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 14:24 First comes the brand, then the materials used and then the method of application. Very soon, various explanations are offered on all these; variations are suggested and justified !

... And then someone claims that all is supported by theoretical western physics and proved by experiments using the Large Hadron Collider. So that's all right then. But... It was all-right before!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Mar 2018, 18:20

Well, we are all branded anyway, as 'that' herd of rasikAs who never give up on taking up one topic or other, trivial or crucial:(

, only to wind them up abruptly and then--resurrect them after umpteen years

Oh, and Spring Cuckoo, I can't give up on teasing you on the badge thing, a mere accessory

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 28 Mar 2018, 19:11

Nick H wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 15:38
Pratyaksham Bala wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 14:24 First comes the brand, then the materials used and then the method of application. Very soon, various explanations are offered on all these; variations are suggested and justified !
... And then someone claims that all is supported by theoretical western physics and proved by experiments using the Large Hadron Collider. So that's all right then. But... It was all-right before!

Spending quality time in many WhatsApp groups, are we? ;P

You missed NASA in that mix. And a dozen other acronyms.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Mar 2018, 19:14

We don't see much of him these days, but we have our very own NASA member. No need to shop elsewhere!

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 28 Mar 2018, 21:23

I was doubtful whether it is a genuineserious doubt or just for fun. Anyway as there has been so many responses, i would also add my method,
1 open the right palm.
2-keep the thumb and little finger away and let the other 3 fingers be kept tightly close without any space in between.
3-dip thse 3 fingers in water and slightly shake dry once to get rid of excess water.
4- put these3 wet fingers flat over the vibuthy surface in a dappa
5- take it out. You will find vibuthy smear sticking on these 3 finger ( still kept close )
6- take your thumb over the vibuthy smared surface of the 3 fingers and with a circular motion of the thumb caress the smeared surface of the 3 fingers still kept close so as to ensure a uniform spread.
7- Now separate the 3 fingers and then apply on uour forehead from left to right.
8- if your fingers are slim like those of malladi bros or u k s you will get the desired stripes.
9- if your fingers are thick, there may be some overlapping and in that case, with the tip of your little fingerwhich is dry draw the 2 demarcation lines.
The description only looks long but actually it can be done in less tha a minute.
Next point . Dry vibuthy is applied in the morning after we rinse our teeth and before takiing bath. Also at all other times of the dat temple visit homa attendance etc.
Vi uthy paste is applied after bath and also before mAdhyanneekam or sandhya vandhanam.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 28 Mar 2018, 22:59

Oh! What a topic for general discussion! How about Iengaars? do they use viboothi pattai?

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 28 Mar 2018, 23:32

RSR wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 22:59 How about Iengaars? do they use viboothi pattai?

Not unless pattai of brand viboothi is available in TASMAC, and said iyengars are tipplers. For non-tipplers, viboothi pattai isn't applicable. Only thirumaN.

PS: pattai as in pattai sArAyam (arrack).
PPS: please don't take this seriously and troll me. Just

. Or not.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 29 Mar 2018, 07:39

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: ↑28 Mar 2018, 14:24 PS.

Basically, application of vibhuti is a type of branding, like similar other types. These are used to encourage the group members to brand themselves, to declare their affinity and loyalty to the group.

Over a period, group members become so much attached that they start extending the application of the brand to their .... animals, etc. etc. !

Read up on the court case about then kalaiversus vada kalai naamam for the Srirangam temple elephant.

When the elephant died, the parties started the court case all over again, claiming that the ruling only applied to the elephant which was alive at the time the judgment was given and not to elephants acquired in the future!

Now you know why Iyengars make the best litigants/lawyers!

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 29 Mar 2018, 19:58

1) how about the way in which famous musicians like Madurai Somu, Desikar(?) and KBS use viboothi?
2) There are some smarthas known as 'keetru naamakkaara'. A single vertical line or a naamam in sandalwood paste.--
Some vaishnavite ladies use single line (vertical) in thirumaN. Very nice.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 29 Mar 2018, 20:04

@38-> 'pattai' leaves a very bad taste.

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 29 Mar 2018, 20:30

RSR wrote: ↑29 Mar 2018, 20:04 @38-> 'pattai' leaves a very bad taste.

I hope people read the whole post at least. Seems that is very high expectation.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Mar 2018, 01:40

Look for the marks on musicians. NSG sports a vertical chandana line with a dot under it.Look for the multi-tier marks on women singers. A sticky tilaka (poTTu), whatever the size, is topped by real kum kum dot and at times, a smear of vibhUthi. They are both prasAdam-s.
For a few decades, caste marks weren't around much. Of late, we see them more, as if they are part of their make up and get up. Suddenly, there was also an explosion of colors in men's tops. Now, white
is the favored color, it appears.
There, since my post is about music makers, it can stay here, I guess. No punishment spelling out: go to the lounge. When I do peek in there, I find a few things which are beyond my comprehension

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 30 Mar 2018, 07:03

See it is all about music. This is how it began:
"Last week I sang at a bhajan function and needed to be in traditional appearance for that."

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 30 Mar 2018, 21:20

arasi wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 01:40 go to the lounge. When I do peek in there, I find a few things which are beyond my comprehension

It seems not much comprehension is needed irrespective of what it is - music or otherwise

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 31 Mar 2018, 02:47

NSG Mama wears gobi - some Iyers have Gobi or keethu Namam tradition like my mom's side. But my dad's side is from Kerala which means vibhoodi pattai (is it wrong to call it pattai-is there a better word?)

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 31 Mar 2018, 03:51

tiruneeru in tamizh or tripunDram (phAlam tripunDrangitam - reference to Sri Sridhara ayyavAL)

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 31 Mar 2018, 08:53

I was 'happily amazed' recently when J B Srutisagar - the noted Panchakaccham clad young flautist with his ever fresh and prominent Vibhuthi on forehead- took time for about 15 mnts to perform Sandhyavandanam backstage during the course of an evening concert (at Arkay Convention, Chennai IIRC) leaving the platform to his sister J B Keerthana who utilised the interval for delineating a leisurely raga aalaapana.

I always feel that Vibhuti has more to do than what meets the eye.

Really Great, Sruti sagar!

Few live up to 'Kartavyam Daivamaahnikam'!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 04 Apr 2018, 06:24

kvchellappa wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 07:03 See it is all about music. This is how it began:
"Last week I sang at a bhajan function and needed to be in traditional appearance for that."

Not sure what you are implying here.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 04 Apr 2018, 07:03

There was a doubt whether this topic must be in General Discussion which is about music.