A Rebuttal to T M Krishna

[sureshvv]

One thing reservations do is help remove the perception of discrimination. So it is not such a bad thing when used for a limited period. It need not be mandated by law.

Correcting perceptions of exclusion/discrimination may require educating those with such perceptions in history.

Sure. It also needs more than that!

And you want something similar to reservations in Carnatic Music for the non-Brahmin community in South India!

Lets leave the Nagas and Nehru out of this.

I don't want any law mandating this. And I don't want this to extend indefinitely.

But, why not the Carnatic Music community of its own volition reach out to society at large and give "outsiders" some "preferential" treatment? Will this help to weaken or strengthen the field and the music?

[ramamatya]

Who is tmk kidding? How many tambrams really are into CM - relating, listening or performing,? Of all the tambrams, that itself will be a small percentage. Add to that the brahmins of south India, smaller, brahmins of north, totally miniscule. When the CM field is so tiny, what's the point in making an issue of it in social terms? Its like asking why pawn broking is exclusive to marwaris. Anybody can jump in, of course - no entry barriers. But nobody seems yo be doing it, that's all.

[Nick H]

Who is tmk kidding? How many tambrams really are into CM - relating, listening or performing,? Of all the tambrams, that itself will be a small percentage. ...

Quite. A storm in a teaspoon.

[sureshvv]

How many tambrams really are into CM - relating, listening or performing,? Of all the tambrams, that itself will be a small percentage. Add to that the brahmins of south India, smaller, brahmins of north, totally miniscule. When the CM field is so tiny, what's the point in making an issue of it in social terms?

Another reason to expand the target audience and selection pool of artistes.

[kvchellappa]

Another reason to expand the target audience and selection pool of artistes.

By all means, do it. let us turn disappointed for all concerts. But, why blame the existing performers and rasikas?

[Nick H]

I don't think anybody is against increasing the numbers. Quite the opposite. We want our concerts, we want a healthy number in the audience, and we want an audience that will still be alive in ten or twenty years time.

We want more people; we want younger people. And we want all this without diluting the music.

And I don't think anybody minds the music being taken to those who might otherwise not hear it. A sort of actually it is not as bad as you think, and you might even enjoy it exercise. Yes! Let's have more of that!

But without the baggage. Without the condemnation of those who are already watching, performing, preserving, the music. All TMK needs to do is... less!

[SrinathK]

Looking at the age distribution of the CM rasikas crowd, unless it is getting refreshed by a fresh pool of retired folks (and hopefully youngsters) every year, we could be in for a demographic implosion in 10-15 years!

[RSR]

Why drag in Panditji in this discussion unnecessarily? 1) Reservation in education and jobs for oppressed communities was near unanimous decision by the Constituent assembly. 2) Extension of the same privilege on caste basis to other communities ( without excluding the richer among them) was the First Amendment forced on Panditji by Tamilnad politics... Nehruji was all for creating opportunities to the depressed classes by providing free and quality education especially in higher education in engineering and health care. but he was against reservation on the basis of mere caste in important jobs . Ofcourse, he did not want the deserving among them to be excluded either.
The following link gives his opinion .
"The only real way to help a backward group is to give opportunities for good education. This includes technical education, which is becoming more and more important. Everything else is provision of some kind of crutches which do not add to the strength or health of the body.
We have made recently two decisions which are very important: One is, universal free elementary education, that is the base; and the second is scho ..

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2943009.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 943009.cms

[sankark]

Reservations - the classic case of "two wrongs do not make a right".

Curiosity: Why is JNR referred to as Pandit? Bcoz of Kashmiri Pandit origin only or "pandit" Pandit?

[harimau]

Reservations - the classic case of "two wrongs do not make a right".

Curiosity: Why is JNR referred to as Pandit? Bcoz of Kashmiri Pandit origin only or "pandit" Pandit?

Civil servants aka babus in the Central Secretariat who worked closely with him and knew how his mind worked used to refer to him as Pandit the Bandit.

[harimau]

One thing reservations do is help remove the perception of discrimination. So it is not such a bad thing when used for a limited period. It need not be mandated by law.

Ok, we start with reservations for Dalits in the auditoria first, just like we have reservations in schools and colleges.

69% of the seats in any hall in Tamil Nadu (50% in those states which obey the Mandal Commission mandate) will be reserved for those belonging to the MBC/OBC/SC/ST category. And if we can't find sufficient number of people of the Backward Communities to attend concerts, the seats should remain empty rather than be thrown open for general admission.

Just like special scholarships for the backward communities, these people should be paid to attend concerts.

This will then act as Music education and then we can expect that, after a century or more of such affirmative action, there will be droves of non-Brahmins attending Carnatic Music concerts.

[sureshvv]

Ok, we start with reservations for Dalits in the auditoria first, just like we have reservations in schools and colleges.

<snip>

This will then act as Music education and then we can expect that, after a century or more of such affirmative action, there will be droves of non-Brahmins attending Carnatic Music concerts.

Granted. Reservations in the auditorium seating is not the way to go. You have set up the strawman and then demolished him. Good job!

How about a one day Thyagaraja kriti festival (with lots of prizes) for kids without prior exposure to CM?

[SrinathK]

Something a lot better than all this frankly illogical stuff (seriously, did you even try to get one new person who doesn't know SRGMPDN to listen to CM?) - Youtube channel(s) covering stuff from the basics onwards. Maybe an app. I think those are already there. And no, they won't listen even if you promise free pizza

I mean, the TN government could promise free CM recordings if voted to power, because everything else has become a freebie now, but it won't fetch them any votes, sadly.

Tell you what, compared to these suggestions, what TMK is doing is frankly the best way to go about introducing CM to other places - just get rid of the whole toxic self shaming privilege part (essentially the leftist modulus operandi). Those days of Isai Vellalars and their lack of opportunities are long past. The truth is there are way more opportunities now than before and way more talented youngsters trying to get in than there are opportunities.

These days just getting brahmin kids to listen to it (and maybe get them to learn a bit of CM) is quite something -- in fact that is the best way to transmit it - at home. Before trying to get non-brahmins (cough, cough) to listen to all this, we need to try and see if we can get our own kids or relatives to tolerate 5 mins of Thyagaraja, while driving your own car.

Maybe the kid might turn out to be a musician, but the relatives .... - god, Stradivari could have made several new violins in the time it takes to make one ardent rasika!

[RSR]

Reservations - the classic case of "two wrongs do not make a right".

Curiosity: Why is JNR referred to as Pandit? Bcoz of Kashmiri Pandit origin only or "pandit" Pandit?

Pandit is the caste surname of Kashmere brahmins. Normally, it gets attached after the name. (ex) Vijayalakshmi Pandit. But, somehow, Jawahar was special, and it became the practice to call him Pandit Jawaharalal, Actually, he was not very comfortable with that. . though others adored him and adorned him for his undoubted scholarship.
Adding caste names is very common all over India except in Tamilnad. .Just information.

[RSR]

Reservations - the classic case of "two wrongs do not make a right".

Curiosity: Why is JNR referred to as Pandit? Bcoz of Kashmiri Pandit origin only or "pandit" Pandit?

Civil servants aka babus in the Central Secretariat who worked closely with him and knew how his mind worked used to refer to him as Pandit the Bandit.

He was indeed a 'bandit'.. in the sense that he robbed the minds of all the people of this country and even world-wide except the yanks! and so called civil servants here in the central secretariat at Delhi. The 'babus' disliked him because he knew more about things than themselves. He tutored an entire generation of officers about the intricacies of international politics and political economy.
I know that you will pounce now and add epithets. How is Nehruji relevant to this discussion?
Youngsters , whatever be the community want money first and fame next. Brahmins in colonial times learned English and Law, because it gave them great careers. After Independence Science. After 2000, software field. That simple.
If knowledge and a diploma in CM is made compulsory for a job in any software factories, and a chance to go to US, it may be effective to lure them to CM but not to the sabahas. Interest in CM need not always be related to attending concerts!
Language barrier is the biggest problem. Why keep on insisting on Sanskrit krithis of Dikshithar, and Telugu krithis of Thyagaraja and Shyama Sastry? Why not choose and popularize the compositions of Papanasam Sivan , which are said to have been patterned exactly on Thyagaraja krithis ( according to a recent Shodhganga paper).?
Cenema and TV have become the main channel for dissemination and if classic compositions are popularized through the films as composed originally by Sivan, it will reach the young people in rural areas. Why not give ragam information also?

[sureshvv]

seriously, did you even try to get one new person who doesn't know SRGMPDN to listen to CM?)

I did not know SRGMPDN when I started listening to CM. Seriously.

And no, they won't listen even if you promise free pizza

Need to catch them young. Before they develop the taste for pizza

Tell you what, compared to these suggestions, what TMK is doing is frankly the best way to go about introducing CM to other places - just get rid of the whole toxic self shaming privilege part (essentially the leftist modulus operandi).

Not sure what else TMK is doing other than the toxic self shaming

Stradivari could have made several new violins in the time it takes to make one ardent rasika!

Forget ardent. How about just casual?

[sankark]

I mean, the TN government could promise free CM recordings if voted to power, because everything else has become a freebie now, but it won't fetch them any votes, sadly.

Why TN only? Assuming CM is considered as the South Indian "classical" music, I would reckon this to be a problem across Kerala, TN, South Karnataka (north Karnataka is a HM bastion?), AP & Telengana. How much of non-Brahmin interest/participation is seen there? Is there the same level of bemoaning, hand wringing and head scratching there too? What about Srilanka - there is quite a heavy Tamil population and how much of CM is well received there?

[Nick H]

... ... ... What about Srilanka - there is quite a heavy Tamil population and how much of CM is well received there?

Srilanka itself, of the present day, I have no idea, but I can say that in UK, and probably in a few other countries in the world, it is the Srilankan refugee population that is keeping carnatic music alive and thriving. Barely an Indian, Brahmin or otherwise, in sight.

[kvchellappa]

Srilankans have been patronising CM for a long time. It was Ceylon radio I turned to to listen to some of the records being aired in the sixties. They do not belong to the 'excluding' class. Tamil musicians (Santhanam notably) went to teach in Srilanka. TMK organised music programmes in the war-devastated northern area and it had a rousing reception.
Another snippet: V Sriram says that it is not true that CM was dominated by the forward castes, citing the contributories to MA building fund. Several other examples have been cited how it is a misinspired campaign. But, it suits the persons concerned to flog a non-existent horse for getting awards, sale of book, cheap popularity.
We are here for music and taking up cudgels for or denouncing such propagandists is uneventful. If the idea is to take music to the 'excluded' people, they are not present here in good number and this discussion is not the way to achieve it. If the idea is that those of us here must feel shame and guilt, I do not think anyone is convinced of it. Any which way you look at it, this is too much hot air in midsummer.

[RSR]

Tamils in Malaysia have been keen fans of CM. In fact, some of the great recordings of concerts there in 1940 -1950 period can be obtained from their collections only. ...Kerala , Karnataka , Andhra and Telengana can emerge naturally as centers of CM excellence. The main reason is language of the venerated krithis. Krithis of Thyagaraja and Shyama Sastri can be easily understood by native speakers of the language in Andhra and Telengana. Thiruppathy can very easily become such a center as Annamacharya krithius also are about the Lord Venkateswara. Hyderabad can conduct Badrachalam Ramadasa festival. Telugu vocalists can render the krithis with correct grammar and bhaavam.
As for Karnataka, Mysore of royal fame and Hasan can conduct music festivals honouring Purandaradasa and disciples of Smt.M.L.Vsanthakumari can regale the audience there with dasa krithis. in Kannada.
Kerala already has a music festival in Guruvayoor. * Chembai) , Another center is at Trivandrum. They can conduct Swathi ThirunaaL festival.
The situation in Tamilnad for the past 25 years has been gradually becoming less and less favourable to CM mainly because of language , cultural and values - pattern changes among the people of all communities. , almost irreversible. It could have been different if CM vocalists had given more importance to Tamil krithis instead of Telugu, Kannada, and Sanskrit krithis. Also, Thamizh songs on Ganesa, Muruga and AmbaaL are more likely to be followed and loved by Tamils today. I think, it is not too late and can be set right . It will be a good thing that our neihbouring southern states became alternate centers . It was a pure accident of history that the Trinity and even Sadasiva Brammendram and a host of composers ( in TELUGU) were residents of Tamilnad. Times have changed.
Our definition of CM ( saba culture) is a harkback to nearly 100 years and that is why it is very difficult to get present day youngsters in colleges to become interested in Trinity krithis. Kalki anticipated it so many decades back!

[sureshvv]

The situation in Tamilnad for the past 25 years has been gradually becoming less and less favourable to CM mainly because of language , cultural and values - pattern changes among the people of all communities. , almost irreversible.

Not sure which newspaper you are reading, but this is as far away from the truth as can be. But it is only the smallest of the many misconceptions that you flaunt here regularly.

[MaheshS]

The situation in Tamilnad for the past 25 years has been gradually becoming less and less favourable to CM mainly because of language , cultural and values - pattern changes among the people of all communities. , almost irreversible.

I like in the UK and exclusively listen to concerts online. I manage about 6-10 concerts a month. ALL of them are from Chennai. ALL of them. Mainly two YouTube channels. Arkay Ramki's and Parivadini. What are you on about?

[harimau]

Lets leave the Nagas and Nehru out of this.

I don't want any law mandating this. And I don't want this to extend indefinitely.

No.

Nehru & Company are responsible for all the sh!t that is wrong with this country.

They set the tone of discourse in 1950 and you can't think outside of those "rules" and are asking for reservation in Carnatic Music concert slots for persons who have neither the interest nor the talent for it.

Shows how much the above-average Indian (that is a compliment to you, in case you don't recognize it) cannot think outside the parameters set by self-serving politicians.

[harimau]

Why drag in Panditji in this discussion unnecessarily? 1) Reservation in education and jobs for oppressed communities was near unanimous decision by the Constituent assembly. 2) Extension of the same privilege on caste basis to other communities ( without excluding the richer among them) was the First Amendment forced on Panditji by Tamilnad politics... Nehruji was all for creating opportunities to the depressed classes by providing free and quality education especially in higher education in engineering and health care. but he was against reservation on the basis of mere caste in important jobs . Ofcourse, he did not want the deserving among them to be excluded either.
The following link gives his opinion .
"The only real way to help a backward group is to give opportunities for good education. This includes technical education, which is becoming more and more important. Everything else is provision of some kind of crutches which do not add to the strength or health of the body.
We have made recently two decisions which are very important: One is, universal free elementary education, that is the base; and the second is scho ..

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2943009.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 943009.cms

Oh yes.

I got to hand this to Pandit the Bandit.

He made sure that he left behind writings that showed how much of a high-minded person he was while making sure that his real intentions were obscured.

Like his writings in newspapers under pseudonyms about how Nehru was concentrating too much power in him and how there will be no democratic successor to him if it goes unchecked.

Because of such writings, we are not like North Korea where power is transferred from father to son to grandson.

Oops!

[harimau]

Ok, we start with reservations for Dalits in the auditoria first, just like we have reservations in schools and colleges.

<snip>

This will then act as Music education and then we can expect that, after a century or more of such affirmative action, there will be droves of non-Brahmins attending Carnatic Music concerts.

Granted. Reservations in the auditorium seating is not the way to go. You have set up the strawman and then demolished him. Good job!

How about a one day Thyagaraja kriti festival (with lots of prizes) for kids without prior exposure to CM?

The straw man setup was actually incomplete.

Maybe after 70 years of reservations in auditoria, we will actually get several world-class performing Carnatic musicians out of the Backward Classes.

Just like after 70 years of reservations in educational institutions, recent Nobel winners from India are all OBCs.

[harimau]

How come T M Krishna is carrying water only for the OBCs and some of you think that we need to reach out to them?

Don't you guys care about "minority religions" being excluded from Carnatic Music? After all, we did have persons like Abraham Pandithar and Woraiyur Kader Batcha in the Carnatic Music fold.

So, let a bunch of us gather in front of the Church of Our Lady of Light on Christmas Day and sing "Rama Namame Thudhi Maname" to initiate the congregants into Carnatic Music!

[sureshvv]

Just like after 70 years of reservations in educational institutions, recent Nobel winners from India are all OBCs.

The purpose of reservations was never that an OBC can win a Nobel prize. The purpose was to ensure that an OBC is not forced to remove his shirt and pick up his sandals while passing harimau coming from the opposite side.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

... after 70 years of reservations in educational institutions, recent Nobel winners from India are all OBCs.

Indian Citizens Who Won The Nobel Prize :-
Rabindranath Tagore – The Nobel Prize in Literature 1913
CV Raman – The Nobel Prize in Physics 1930
Amartya Sen – Prize for Economic Studies 1998
Kailash Satyarthi – The Nobel Peace Prize 2014

Indian-born Nobel Laureates :-
Har Gobind Khorana – The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 1968
Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar – The Nobel Prize in Physics 1983
Venkatraman Ramakrishnan – The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2009

Of the seven listed above, five are Brahmins !

[arasi]

aiyyE, metha kaDinam, krishnAvin guNam
meyyAgavE nammaik kiLappiviDum vidam (aiyyE)

ஐயே, மெத்தக் கடினம், க்ருஷ்ணாவின் குணம்
மெய்யாகவே நம்மைக் கிளப்பி விடும் விதம் (ஐயே)

AiyyA!It's tough indeed, the way Krishna's ways have a way of stirring us up

[ramamatya]

The purpose was to ensure that an OBC is not forced to remove his shirt and pick up his sandals while passing harimau coming from the opposite side.

Don't live in flashback. Come to present. Now, brahmins are made to remove their shirts and even poonool and pickvup sandals and keep them on their heads while passing others (figuratively). The purpose shld have been that nobody shld have been made to do this. The purpose is not to reverse an issue. And so, the purpose has simply failed. Accept it.

[arasi]

"The purpose is not to reverse the issue" makes a lot of sense.

[RSR]

I like in the UK and exclusively listen to concerts online. I manage about 6-10 concerts a month. ALL of them are from Chennai. ALL of them. Mainly two YouTube channels. Arkay Ramki's and Parivadini. What are you on about?

---------------
I live in interior Tamilnad and have known many PG students ( nearly a thousand..no exaggeration) over the past 20 years. Hardly 0.1 % are interested in CM. .. They dont even care. The general perception is that it is terribly old-fashioned. If at all they have any familiarity, it is through film personalities. More of them know of AR Rahman, Ilayaraja than other regular CM composers outside the film world. This is DKP centenary year and the few who have heard about her , identify her as Nithyasree's grandmother! That's all. .. Tamilnad is not the brahmin areas of Chennai. There are nearly a hundred temple towns of renown. ( Tanjore, Trichy, Kumbakonam, Mayavaram, Chithambaram, Thiruvannamalai, Kanchipuram, Madurai, Palani, Srivilliputhoor, Nellai, Ramand, Puthukkottai, suchindram, Thirutthani, Chithambaram, Sirkazhi, SriRangam, and lesser known but glorious centers of hoary past. ), If we conduct a poll there among the plus2 and college students there about their liking for CM, most would shrug it off as elitist and plead that there is no time for all that. Their bete noire will be RTP! this is the ground reality.
Any body can record their output and upload to tube. I have been dismayed to find zero views for some of the most wonderful uploads by Shankar Rajasekaran. . I wont blame the youngsters . Where is the time? Working hours are from 9am to 10pm. Inevitably, listening to concerts even over the web is for retired people it seems. And when the present day students and professionals retire in say a decade,or two they are least likely to spend their leisure time in listening to CM, especially in a language unknown to them unless it is a film song! that too in Tamil.

[RSR]

Oh yes.
I got to hand this to Pandit the Bandit.
He made sure that he left behind writings that showed how much of a high-minded person he was while making sure that his real intentions were obscured.
Like his writings in newspapers under pseudonyms about how Nehru was concentrating too much power in him and how there will be no democratic successor to him if it goes unchecked.

Yes. I know that chapter in 'Towards Freedom' by heart. It is a shining example of his commitment to Democratic values . ..To brush up a bit of history, Smt.Indira Gandhi, ( incidentally praised as Goddess Durga' in our parliament for her brilliant leadership during the Bangladesh crisis, by none other than A.B.Vajpayee., did not succeeed Panditji immediately after that sad day in 1964. It was LalBahadur Sastry who was elected PrimeMinister by the Congress Parliamentary Party. Actually, Indira declined any offer of ministry even but I&B was thrust upon her.
How she was elected by the CWC by consensus in those critical years under the guidance of Sri.Kamaraj, is well known.
It is very fashionable to Mylapore Mamas to hate Panditji ( the Rajaji factor). Pure jealousy. and intellectual arrogance..Rajarishi stuff.
Here is a priceless quote from Vajpayee...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To see his stature when he passed away, his critique Atal Bihari Vajpayee said in parliament

‘A dream has remained half-fulfilled,
a song has become silent, and
a flame has banished into the Unknown.

The dream was of a world free of fear and hunger;
the song a great epic resonant with the spirit of the Gita and as fragrant as a rose,
the flame a candle which burnt all night long, showing us the way’.

The loss, said Vajpayee, was not that of a family or community or party.
Mother India was in mourning because ‘her beloved Prince has gone to sleep’.
Humanity was sad because its servant and ‘worshipper has left it for ever’.
The ‘benefactor of the downtrodden has gone’.
The ‘chief actor of the world stage has departed after performing his last act’

Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[harimau]

Oh yes.
I got to hand this to Pandit the Bandit.
He made sure that he left behind writings that showed how much of a high-minded person he was while making sure that his real intentions were obscured.
Like his writings in newspapers under pseudonyms about how Nehru was concentrating too much power in him and how there will be no democratic successor to him if it goes unchecked.

Yes. I know that chapter in 'Towards Freedom' by heart. It is a shining example of his commitment to Democratic values . ..To brush up a bit of history, Smt.Indira Gandhi, ( incidentally praised as Goddess Durga' in our parliament for her brilliant leadership during the Bangladesh crisis, by none other than A.B.Vajpayee., did not succeeed Panditji immediately after that sad day in 1964. It was LalBahadur Sastry who was elected PrimeMinister by the Congress Parliamentary Party. Actually, Indira declined any offer of ministry even but I&B was thrust upon her.
How she was elected by the CWC by consensus in those critical years under the guidance of Sri.Kamaraj, is well known.
It is very fashionable to Mylapore Mamas to hate Panditji ( the Rajaji factor). Pure jealousy. and intellectual arrogance..Rajarishi stuff.
Here is a priceless quote from Vajpayee...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To see his stature when he passed away, his critique Atal Bihari Vajpayee said in parliament

‘A dream has remained half-fulfilled,
a song has become silent, and
a flame has banished into the Unknown.

The dream was of a world free of fear and hunger;
the song a great epic resonant with the spirit of the Gita and as fragrant as a rose,
the flame a candle which burnt all night long, showing us the way’.

The loss, said Vajpayee, was not that of a family or community or party.
Mother India was in mourning because ‘her beloved Prince has gone to sleep’.
Humanity was sad because its servant and ‘worshipper has left it for ever’.
The ‘benefactor of the downtrodden has gone’.
The ‘chief actor of the world stage has departed after performing his last act’

Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bhajanai Seivom Nehru Naamam!

[SrinathK]

Ok, we start with reservations for Dalits in the auditoria first, just like we have reservations in schools and colleges.

<snip>

This will then act as Music education and then we can expect that, after a century or more of such affirmative action, there will be droves of non-Brahmins attending Carnatic Music concerts.

Granted. Reservations in the auditorium seating is not the way to go. You have set up the strawman and then demolished him. Good job!

How about a one day Thyagaraja kriti festival (with lots of prizes) for kids without prior exposure to CM?

The straw man setup was actually incomplete.

Maybe after 70 years of reservations in auditoria, we will actually get several world-class performing Carnatic musicians out of the Backward Classes.

Just like after 70 years of reservations in educational institutions, recent Nobel winners from India are all OBCs.

If only one could become a musician by sitting in the audience.... anyway, why is this dead horse still being flogged?

[rshankar]

anyway, why is this dead horse still being flogged?

To make sure we do not make a mockery of Adi Sankara's statement - 'punarapi jananam, punarapi maraNam, punarapi jananI jaTharE Sayanam', perhaps???

[RSR]

Let us try to find a way to spread awareness of CM among the new generation.
Here is my suggestion.
Carnatic music ( both vocal and instrumental) should be taught compulsorily right from Elementary school. through and upto plus2. It should not be optional. We can frame a suitable and simple syllabus consisting of Tamil classical compositions only. Less of grammar but more of sample songs and training in identification of ragams. The idea is exactly like how we teach languages and science and social science. It would be enough if the students can sing reasonably well, about 100 tamil krithis spread over very common CM ragams numbering about 50.
When CM is a compulsory subject in all the schools in Tamilnad, there will be job opportunities as teachers in schools. That would in turn make many to join music colleges. and get a degree / diploma.
The idea to be acceptable in the prevailing political climate, in Tamilnadu, should be entirely oriented towards Tamil krithis only.
I am sure that there are great number of such Tamil CM krithis by Mahakavi Barathy, Suddhananda Barathy, Papanasam Sivan, Periyasamy Thooran, Ramalinga swamikal,Gopalakrushna Barathy, Arunachala kavirayar, and his two famous contemporaries,
. All the existing Tamil renderings by our luminaries of the golden era of Tamil Isai movement should be preserved and taught instead of being brushed aside as 'thukkadas'. It may be remembered that MMI is fondly remembered equally for the 'thukkadas' as for his rigorous artistry.
We must make CM job-oriented , if it is to catch the attention of rural households. It is not all that improbable to get Govt support. Who could have imagined before 1990, rural students being knowledgeable in topics of computer science as widely as now, , however basic exposure it might be?
Prior to the introduction of plus2 scheme, we were taught English, Advanced Tamil/English etc/ Sanskrit, Maths, Physics, Chemistry, for Engg and technology stream and subjects like Biology, Botany etc for other streams and had to choose atleast two subjects from Humanities group like World History, Indian History, Economics, Philosophy, Logic and Political thought. It gave all the students a broader perspective.
It is this over-specialization in the plus2 curriculum that has led to the neglect of humanities and arts.

[RSR]

Bhajanai Seivom Nehru Naamam!

-------------
Yes.

[sankark]

When CM is a compulsory subject in all the schools in Tamilnad, there will be job opportunities as teachers in schools. That would in turn make many to join music colleges. and get a degree / diploma.
.

Why stop there? Posting in rasikas.org should be made compulsory - including non sequiturs, digressions, history, geography, dasa mahAvidyA, marxist leninist chomskian subramanian swamyisms, et all.
TN govt should levy a rasika's tax to pay for hosting and storage

[SrinathK]

anyway, why is this dead horse still being flogged?

To make sure we do not make a mockery of Adi Sankara's statement - 'punarapi jananam, punarapi maraNam, punarapi jananI jaTharE Sayanam', perhaps???

punarapi tmk, punarapi discussion... on rasikas this is more consistent than the cycle of samsara itself ....

[arasi]

This habit, before it gets inured in rasikas, the cold turkey method might help. That is: let's only review his music, like good music lovers. The rest of his baggage, leave to others to peck at
And please, let the reviews stick to the content of the concert and not take excursions into areas which have nothing to do with the concert or music for that matter!

[harimau]

Bhajanai Seivom Nehru Naamam!

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Yes.

Add to that: "Indira is India"!

[SrinathK]

This habit, before it gets inured in rasikas, the cold turkey method might help. That is: let's only review his music, like good music lovers. The rest of his baggage, leave to others to peck at
And please, let the reviews stick to the content of the concert and not take excursions into areas which have nothing to do with the concert or music for that matter!

I wish it was like that @arasi, but you know, we have a few handles here whose only ever contribution to Carnatic music is to appear in TMK threads or randomly pouring vitriol on some musicians.

[RSR]

@88-> Hari Mau->Yes.
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[RSR]

Mr.sankarK,
I am not an admirer or follower of either Noam Chomsky or Dr.Subramanyam Swami. So, please avoid misrepresenting.
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The main theme of this particular thread is about the well-known musicians effort to make CM accessible to all.
If you carefully read through what I have posted, I have given a true picture of how CM is viewed by the younger generation ( say, post 1980) and without ridiculing anybody or any arrangement, have suggested very practical steps so that in just 10 years' time, all the children in Tamilnad will know about some 60 ragams and can sing about 50 kritis. I do not post just for posting something or for debunking anyone. Kindly give some thought to the proposals. and the govt can easily and enthusiastically adopt and implement.
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Kindly avoid 'clever and cryptic comments.

[shankarank]

@96 sankark<- When things get socio-political we need to get to the sources where all these emanate from. TMK's claim is that he writes these as an artist, but in reality lot of what he says is material exported from the West that is not even applied there!

@100 Srinathk <- Let people stop starting threads on TMK's socio-political discourse - this should stop. I have stopped starting threads

[RSR]

.......
@100 Srinathk <- Let people stop starting threads on TMK's socio-political discourse - this should stop. I have stopped starting threads

( emphasis added by me)
Yes. The forum can discuss his specific concerts. Not his ideology right or wrong

[Nick H]

Thanks.


But sure, I'd welcome that development.

[martha_krishna]

If anyone doubted the need to start the conversation TMK initiated, I would show this thread as a case in point. It renders the rebuttal case moot. Having been part of a spicmacay group few years ago when I was in my undergrad made me understand how unwelcome and intimidating classical music felt for people who had not been initiated when they were young. I do not understand why it is so difficult to acknowledge that a deeply casteist society will have a strong holding in the art of such a society; and that one can do better in trying to recognize these aspects and work towards making the art we love so much accessible to more people. I have seen first hand the role spicmacay played in my college days. anyway on with your chomsky swamy and whatever emojis that harimau dude wants to employ.

[SrinathK]

We're not contesting the need for CM to reach more people (especially in it's current 'Brahmin space' where east is trying to go west, while west looks to the east) or other communities, and we do appreciate the efforts being put in this regard (some one at least tries and makes an impact) but hey, the Brahmin bashing and this whole 'privilege' thing -- is totally unwarranted. Look, if I go somewhere to a place where CM isn't appreciated and people find out I know CM, I know they're smirking behind my back like they've seen some weird alien species. Not my fault. I didn't go there to tell them I'm privileged, if anything, the mocking privilege is always theirs.

And harimau is a actually a whole bunch of panthera tigris rasikacias...