The problem with Carnatic in the Bay

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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kvchellappa
Posts: 3598
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54

The problem with Carnatic in the Bay

Post by kvchellappa »

"Creating rasikas first and performers and competitors subsequently will serve both the young students and classical arts as a whole, better. Then, parents, teachers and sabhas would win too."

https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/kW4eKZ ... e-Bay.html

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The problem with Carnatic in the Bay

Post by shankarank »

Requoting the same things I said in another thread:
In spite of having 10 years training as a violinist in childhood ( in a Kerala city), a person that I know has never heard of Violinist T.N Krishnan. In the U.S he/she goes to his daugher's house for classes, and says he/she is from XYZ city in Kerala, to which his daughter responded yes we are also from Kerala from a city called Thrissur. And her father's name is T.N Krishnan. So even if you had been initiated, you have never heard any great music. The two may not go together.
That person also boasts that he/she won competitions in his/her school days. Does not attend concerts now. But I know the child is getting trained in Carnatic music.

So this is not a specific problem of the diaspora. The rat race was somewhat present in India as well in the 70s/80s.

Before then all the famous musicians , some of whom are even still being marketed to the quite dwindled authentic music lovers in chennai for acceptance, with remembrances, and whose records are not a hot sell even in India, whose Sishyas attract derision in the forum to the extent that they should not be featured in Cleveland, have participated in competitions.

Even the bhAva filled Madurai Thiru Somasundaram participated and won Tambura prices!!
“The competitions are part of the commercial Carnatic circus,” says Ashok Subramaniam, founder of the Gandharva Vidya Center in Cupertino, California. Beginning with two students in 1999, Subramaniam now has over 100 students. He adds, “I don’t believe in competitions, as the Carnatic music that we sing is in devotion to the godhead.” The number of participants in competitions, though, indicates that teachers like Subramaniam are in the minority.
The civilizational cluelessness continues with such statements. The devotion is to the sangItam (as well!) stupid. As Dr Tadepalli lOkanatha Sarma translated sangIta gnAnamu bhakti, there is a comma after bhakti as well not just after gnAnam. I remember reading SrI T. S Parthasarathy's translation where he enumerates them : sangIta gnAnam, bhakti - without these..

So : http://tyagaraja-vaibhavam-tamil.blogsp ... nyasi.html
இசையறிவு, பக்தியின்றி, நன்னெறி சேர்க்காதே.
- where "without" is attributed to only bhakti may not be correct!.

First know things properly before criticizing. It goes like: "bhakti was the driver for music" and then "oh what is all this bhakti", then competition became driver for music , then it goes "oh what is all this competition"!.

We want to dismantle every support system music had/has when we also lament that the music does not have any support :x
Last edited by shankarank on 06 May 2018, 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The problem with Carnatic in the Bay

Post by shankarank »

“The competitions are part of the commercial Carnatic circus,” says Ashok Subramaniam, founder of the Gandharva Vidya Center in Cupertino, California. Beginning with two students in 1999, Subramaniam now has over 100 students. He adds, “I don’t believe in competitions, as the Carnatic music that we sing is in devotion to the godhead.” The number of participants in competitions, though, indicates that teachers like Subramaniam are in the minority.
Without competitions and the fervor that has created, I bet he himself would not get more than 5 students!

Yeah even the education system is "test Driven" nowadays. Because of lack of trust with teachers. IIT(s) alone in India had gradations throughout the semester and GPA system and the teacher that teaches grades you. All other universities had "examiner" as a separate profession - where the name of the student is removed. A Math teacher in Thiagaracar Engg. College, Madurai said at the end of the semester - if you cannot solve any problem, go ahead submit an empty paper and we will get Rs 10 free of effort. That would have sent a chill through the spine for many students. As my bench-mate in his inimitable tirunaveli tamizh lamented : "avar varkattukku kAsu cEkkARu" - he is looking out for his ilk! :mrgreen:

We should tell the music students same thing - if you don't know how to sing, ascend the stage and descend after your dads have taken photographs. The organization got it's money - $10 for arOhaNam (ascend) and $10 for avarOhaNam (descend)! :lol: . Well those could be separate competition areas/topics I meant! :twisted: :lol: :lol:

With teachers unionized and one of the laziest , there is no alternative but to test and then close down schools - figured the no child left behind act.

Like software development is also "test Driven" and now onto BDD - Behaviour driven development - where the tests are written by non-technical people - a way to reduce costs of hiring dedicated testers. This after burning millions of dollars in Business analysts writing 1000 pages of requirements - before then the product is obsolete.

Just get a life!

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: The problem with Carnatic in the Bay

Post by shankarank »

Some recollections of Mardi Gras ( we were all revelers in New Orleans!) at IITM. That tells you how deeply colonized the Indian psyche was by then. It was renamed sArang much later - may be during the Vajpayee government.

Before 1988 or so, all the YACM first generation had participated in the competition, per recollections by Ashok Kalidas. I didn't get to see them sing there as they were into the stage by then.

Remember concerts of Sanjay ( I think he sang Hamir kalyaNi), Sowmya ( she also sang hamir kalyani purahara nandana and SR fame dorakuNA). Looks like hamir Kalyani was thought to impress youngsters - may be some Northies.

There were some re-collections, I think she sang kApi in the end part. TTN , the mAmA of the campus whispered to me that we should tell her - her dESh was bEsh. Later I mentioned this to my teacher ( Smt. Seetha Subramaniam) , who said kApi cannot be sung like dEsh ever. My teacher also mentioned she learnt dorakuNa from Dr. SR.

Ghatam Karthik participated in one of those years - 1990 or so. He was already in the concert circuit. A long kORvai. Sri T.H Vinayakaram and Sri Ravikiran were judges. He was looking for tALam , and at some point Guitar Prasanna stepped up from the seats and did the tALam for him. Sri THV, did turn back to check who was doing the tALam and if he is doing it OK.

He was later disqualified after the competition in the consultation between the coordinator and the judges - that this is concert grade and cannot be allowed.

In one of the other years : Ashok Kalidas - IIRC, who might have had an AIR B grade, approached the judges Sikkil Sisters, with some trepidation telling me, that he would face some questioning from them as to why he was not participating. Surely, they did ask and they themselves answered it : Yes we are all people who play in concerts!

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