SOME GREAT CARNATIC SONGS (NON-FILM, SECULAR) OF 1940-1950 DECADE

[RSR]

A good composition should have an ennobling theme, good lyrics, poetic excellence, fine orthodox classical music, good orchestration ( if provided), singing with emotional fervor , great and sweet voice and not the least among them the language of the song which should be the mother-tongue of the common people to which it is offered. ( naturally Tamizh ).
Here are some great carnatic music songs of secular themes ( non-film) , very popular in the golden decade ( 1940-1950) sung by the Trinity ( MSS, DKP and NCV).... MSS was just 24 in 1940, DKP was 22 and NCV was 20!
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Let me begin the list with immortal classics of Smt.MSS.
1) mannum imayamalai engaL malaiye -மன்னும் இமயமலை ( poet-Barathy, on our motherland,Ragam-Chenchurutti, music by S.V.Venkataraman
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... imayamalai

2) oLi padaittha kaNNinaay vA vA vA-ஒளி படைத்த கண்ணினாய் ( Barathy, ragamalilai, kalyaani, Kapi) music SVV.. ( Barathy's welcome to young india) http://picosong.com/z7HA

3) yAmarntha mozhikaLile - யாமறிந்த மொழிகளிலே ( Barathy's homage to thamizh) Shanmugapriya, Mohanam and Chenchurutti ( music likely to be SVV) https://youtu.be/0NvkU_HzndM

4) Chenthamizh Nadenum pothinile - செந்தமிழ் நாடெனும் ( poet Barathy on Tamilnadu)) Ragamalika.Chenchurutti and final stanza in madhyamaavathi https://youtu.be/0NTAU_jJvoY

5) thavamum politthathammaa by Kalki on Barathy -தவமும் பலித்ததம்மா ( Shanmugapriya, PoorvikalyaaNI , KeervaNI ) music SVV? http://picosong.com/z7aS

6) Deyvath thamizh Nattinile veNNIlaave -தெய்வத் தமிழ் நாட்டினிலே ( Jonpuri,Desh, Piloo and Chenchurutti ) ( lyrics by Kalki, on Barathy) http://picosong.com/z7aC

7) maaNilatthai vAzhavaikka vantha mahaathmaa ( Kalki on Gandhiji's pssing away ) Dharmavathi ragam. மாநிலத்தை வாழவைக்க வந்த மஹாத்மா

8) itthanai naaL aana pinnum இத்தனை நாள் ஆன பின்னும் (kalki on Gandhji ) Sindhubairavi

9) patriotic concert song .. pozhuthu pularnthathu yaam seytha thavatthaal ... Ragamalika ( Poet Barathy)
பொழுது புலர்ந்தது யாம் செய்த தவத்தால்

https://youtu.be/pCZbLFpTZJI

10) concert song on the Muse 'veLLaith thAmaraip poovil iruppaaL'
Poet Barathy , Beemplaas ragam
வெள்ளைத் தாமரைப் பூவில் இருப்பாள்
https://youtu.be/9GjBEzkzMY4
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11) concert song.. poet Barathy.. 'pArukkuLLe nalla naadu ( jonpuri) பாருக்குள்ளே நல்ல நாடு-எங்கள்
பாரத நாடு
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... mi/home/74
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12) vaanatthin meethu mayil aadak kanden ..( poet- Ramalinga swamikal) Mand Ragam.
வானத்தின் மீது மயிலாடக் கண்டேன்
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... hin-meethu

( to be continued) with similar songs by DKP and NCV
(


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[shankarank]

These are by no means secular in what could be nicely called "pazhanGuDi makkaL" civilization. You know the guardian deities - grAma devatas. There is every reason to believe they are to deify a person who sacrificed his life protecting the village from intruders.

I don't think secular discourse allows for the sacred! It anthropologizes even Neanderthals , calling them spiritually inclined ( believe in after-life that is) because they buried their dead.

And such grAma devatas are family deities of many brahmin families - where non brahmins are still priests. Dharma SAsta ( ayyanar) is a development from this. Brahmins recite from outside.

Even now as soon as the word Hindu is used, people take to nAsAdiya sukta , when the word Hindu itself was not known. It is convenient intellectually.

So you don't even need a [:cough:] vEdic lens!

As regards, emotional fervor - you got it from your Mom before you could feel it with the trinity in their twenties. That might disappear soon as even Moms are not that emotionally invested nowadays! And that (emotional investment that is), may be a sacred thing after all. It is by no means secular!

[shankarank]

The American poppers are getting an earful from the uneducated country bumpkin (pagan in other words!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd9A1u4l5Q

Is what he talks about secular? Which secular institution teaches this? Steve Forbes - I listen to presidential candidate speeches - pointed out that even (social) liberals have started accepting that values are important! Which means at some point they were not advocating it.

Here you have Secular humanists like Gopalakrishna Gandhi talking about how it is all human respect that Thiruvalluvar stood for , instead we have falling at the feet and bhakti! Subverts!

[RSR]

in continuation of post @1
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Next we take up some wonderful songs by Smt.DKPattammaaL whose birth centenary we are celebrating this year,
1) tondru nikazhnthathu aNaitthum uNarnthidu ( patriotic cong by Barathy) Rahgam Bairavi...78 rpm record
தொன்று நிகழ்ந்தது அனைத்தும் உணர்ந்திடு
https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattammalsongs/home/32
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2 ) entahiyum thaayum makizhnthu kulaavi ( patriotic song by Barathy)
( ragam? ) (78 rpm)
எந்தையும் தாயும் மகிழ்ந்து குலாவி இருந்ததும் இந்நாடே
https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattammalsongs/home/33
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3) taayin maNikkodi paareer ( patriotic song by poet Barathy ) Ragam -Saamaa *78 rpm)
தாயின் மணிக்கொடி பாரீர்
https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattamm ... koti-parir
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4) paarukkuLLe nalla naadu engal baratha naadu ( poet Barathy) Ragam Jonpuri (78 rpm)
பாருக்குள்ளே நல்ல நாடு எங்கள் பாரத நாடு
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5) chinnanchiru kiLiye kaNNamma selvak kaLanjiyame ( poet Barathy) (78 rpm)

Rgamalikai
An adoring father's breathtaking poem on his darling child of daughter
சின்னஞ்சிறு கிளியே கண்ணம்மா செல்வக்களஞ்சியமே

https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattamm ... -kannam-ma
( ragam information given in the page...thanks to Dr.Pasupathy)
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6) saanthi nilava vendum ( tilang ragam ( poet -Sethu Madhava Rao( on Gandhiji சாந்தி நிலவ வேண்டும்
https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattamm ... ava-vendum (78 rpm)

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The third part will be devoted to songs by Smt.N,C,Vasanthakokilam
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[RSR]

In the third and final instalment of songs, we will see five of the best of NCV secular songs.
1) piLLaip pirAyatthile ( poet Barathy.. a classic.. on the muse)
Ragamalika ( neelaambar/tilang, beemplaas and kamaj)
பிள்ளைப் பிராயத்திலே
( if NCV herself had set the tune, it is an astounding feat!)
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanth ... 01-pillaip
2) paamaalaik-kinayundo poet Papanasam Sivan and music also by him. பாமாலைக்கு இணையுண்டோ
Ragam Harikambodhi
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanthakokilam/home/08

3) 'sanga naadham ketkuthu saantha gaandhi satthiyatthin' Ragam Kamaj + An absolutely ravising and poignant tune wonderfully sung by NCV. சங்க நாதம் கேட்குது சாந்த காந்தி சத்தியத்தின்
The poem is by Namakkal kavigyar Ramalingam Pillai,
Unfortunately, the plate has vanished totally. Trying my best to locate it and share
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanth ... m-ketkuthu

4) 'pozhuthu pularnthathu yaam seytha thavatthaal ' poet Barathy
( baaratha maatha thiruppalli ezhucchi) ( later sung by MS also)
but this song is in boopaaLam and very serene.
Again, the tragedy is that it is not available in web.
பொழுது புலர்ந்தது யாம் செய்த தவத்தால்

5) thanthai thaay kaattidaatha ...a requiem on Gandhiji's passing away.(தந்தை தாய் காட்டிடாத ..)
சத்தியம் உள்ளமட்டும் ,தருமமே வெல்லுமட்டும்
உத்தமர் பொறுமையாலே,உயிர் நலம் உயரும் மட்டும்
வித்தக பரத நாட்டின் ,புண்ணியம் விளங்கும் மட்டும்
இத்தலம் உள்ளமட்டும்

எவருன்னை மறப்பார் ஐயா,காந்தி மகாத்மா
எவருன்னை மறப்பார் ஐயா!
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanth ... ssing-away

[rshankar]

I can’t really see veLLai tAmarai pUvil iruppAL, piLLai pirAyattilE, etc. as secular. piLLai pirAyattilE describes the mahAkavi’s interactions with sarasvati, lakshmi, and parASakti/pArvati at various points of his life: kalai magaL in his childhood, alai magaL at a later age, and malai magaL when he’s mature. How does that qualify as secular?

[shankarank]

It seems Karl Marx has not been read in the original in the twenty first century. He is waiting for more sutradhars and bhashya karas.

https://thewire.in/books/can-the-21st-c ... e-original

Entire nations, political giants and academics have lacked reading skills. They quoted him out of convenience, to push whatever non sense.

Oh Nehru also has not been read in the original. Entire education system, text book authors have lacked reading skills.

Reading the original will give you the subjective experience , so unique of the objective truth!

Karl spent all of his time in scholarship in the museums and libraries and even wrote on India. Great thinker!

I like the fact that the Nobel Literary price could not be awarded this year due to #metoo. Aavadum peNNAle azhivatum peNNALE.

Upanishads got it in 1948 and hence we don't need Bharathy to have gotten it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tvj5achJ48

[RSR]

I can’t really see veLLai tAmarai pUvil iruppAL, piLLai pirAyattilE, etc. as secular. piLLai pirAyattilE describes the mahAkavi’s interactions with sarasvati, lakshmi, and parASakti/pArvati at various points of his life: kalai magaL in his childhood, alai magaL at a later age, and malai magaL when he’s mature. How does that qualify as secular?

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These two songs are too great to be missed on 'secular' considerations. The poetry is awe-inspting and the tunes and the way they are sung..divine. True...in a way, they are about Saraswathi, the Goddess of Learning. The concept of Brahma and his supposed consort Saraswathi, is rather unclear and scant in hindu mythological lore. There are thousands and thousands of temples and hymns for the standard pantheon, ( Siva, Vishnu, Parvathi, Ganesa and Murugan ) but exceedingly rare for either Brahma or more importantly for Saraswathi. ( 'saras' I am told is for 'flow'), And consider where the Amarakavi Barathy finds the manifestations of 'muse'.. Every line there is worth a treasure. ( in fact , sung more wonderfully by Madurai Mani Iyer.. ( Have you noticed how he would emphasize 'kaLLamatra munivarkaL? I have heard and seen versions as 'kaLLamutra '!)
It seems even a song in mother-tongue is no guarantee to be understood properly! Sad!
As you know, Barathy was a great admirer of Shelley and I am tempted to quote extensively from Shelley;s 'hymn to Intellectual beauty,..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymn_to_I ... ual_Beauty

Associating the worship of the three goddesses with various stages in life (!) is crude. to say the least.
They are eternal goals in any mature life. with equal emphasis. Actually, they are three different poems. one each on the goddess of knowledge, on goddesss of prosperity and on goddess of kshatriya dharmam. The Navarathri festival all over India glorifies these three very artistically and culturally.
Actually, even Mythological Gods and Goddesses are as Sri.",VK "points out aptly in another context, just 'anthromorphic representations of concepts. and perhaps of even real historical events. ( who are the devas? who are the asuras? Who is Mahabali? Is vishnu morphed from 'viN'? ''moovulakum eeradiyaal ' sings Ilango adikal. It is the sometimes ridiculous and almost vulgar extrapolations in puranas that have managed to hide the essence of the concepts in our aagama saastras.
We all need Knowledge, Wealth and Valour. ( The goddessses Saraswathi, Lakshmi and Durga are just anthromorhic visions).
piLLaip piraayatthile song refers only to the 'muse'. Not necessarily to Saraswathi.as envisioned by us.
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I may add another post on four more gems from Smt MS ( 'vandhe matharam , the duet with DKRoy, ;dhano dhanya ; another really secular duet with DKRoy ( in fact it would have been the best choice for our National anthem" and
MS rendering of DKRoy;'s father's 'pathithiddharani Gange ' ( DL Roy was a secularist) and Mirza Galib urdu poem rendered by MS. Left them out as they are not in tamizh

[rshankar]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1625&hilit=plLLai+pirAyattilE - somebody should tell the mahAkavi he was “crude” (preferably with ‘sangam Udi murasaRaindu’)

[RSR]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1625&hilit=plLLai+pirAyattilE - somebody should tell the mahAkavi he was “crude” (preferably with ‘sangam Udi murasaRaindu’)

==
Great scholars like Dr.Prema Nandakumar , have translated many if not most poems of Barathy into English.. I would rather go by their version than yours.
http://www.madrasmusings.com/vol-27-no- ... of-poetry/

We have gone through all this in the thread mentioned by you. And my focus has always been on music than on the lyrics. especially in languages other than my mother tongue and English.
See! if you read it as 'kanni', kavithai, it relieves the passage of its crudity ( of proposing matrimony to one's mother!..already discussed). We can read the poem as just addressed to a maiden ( the muse) Then it makes sense. 'kaviyullam kaangilaar!.. The only phrase that may not be compatible is 'veLLai malaranai mel'. Just ignore and move on.
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( not a good translation , but still)
This is from Full text of "Bharati Patalkal"
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 4n4squs5pF
(blurb)
'In translating Bharati*s poems into English, the Tamil University has fulfilled one of the dreams of Bharati -- the exchange of his own ideals with the rest of the world. .... P.Mahadevan - Dr. Prema Nandakumar - Thiru C.Rajagopalachariar - Thiru T.N.Rainachandran - Prof......
By the river-bed, when I was The southerly breeze enjoying,
Came the Virgin[/b] and to me gave Her treasured verse; that approving.
When I in admiration said: "Darling, me you should marry" She smiled but to vanish, alas!
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'oomaiyaray, kurudarkalay, chevidarkalay 'vaazhkindrom! ?

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Respected rshankar ji,

It is interesting to read once again the very familiar third & fourth stanzas of the song ‘veLLait tAmarai poovil’ !

வஞ்ச மற்ற தொழில்புரிந் துண்டு
வாழும் மாந்தர் குலதெய்வ மாவாள்;
வெஞ்ச மர்க்குயி ராகிய கொல்லர்
வித்தை யோர்ந்திடு சிற்பியர்,தச்சர்,
மிஞ்ச நற்பொருள் வாணிகஞ் செய்வோர்,
வீர மன்னர்பின் வேதியர் யாரும்
தஞ்ச மென்று வணங்கிடுந் தெய்வம்
தரணி மீதறி வாகிய தெய்வம். -- (வெள்ளைத்)

தெய்வம் யாவும் உணர்ந்திடுந் தெய்வம்,
தீமைகாட்டி விலக்கிடுந் தெய்வம்;
உய்வ மென்ற கருத்துடை யோர்கள்
உயிரி னுக்குயி ராகிய தெய்வம்;
செய்வ மென்றொரு செய்கை யெடுப்போர்
செம்மை நாடிப் பணிந்திடு தெய்வம்
கைவ ருந்தி உழைப்பவர் தெய்வம்
கவிஞர் தெய்வம்,கடவுளர் தெய்வம் -- (வெள்ளைத்)

[arasi]

Ravi, PB,
How you take me back to my school days when we were taught this veLLaith thAmarip pUvilirukkum sarasvathi's hymn! The last verse indeed is an inspired one--the mahimai of deivam-- and the following lines which continue to inspire--speaking of that deivam's connection with us and the secret of how it manipulates itself in every living thing and action An ever inspiring song to sing and savor...

[RSR]

I have explicitly given links to all the songs (audio) , just to avoid the 'bookish' approach. Almost ALL the songs thus rendered and cited by me leave out some stanzas . It may be argued that it was due to the time constraint imposed by the 78 rpm record ( normally just 3 minutes per side of the plate). May be. but then there was no such constraint when the song is rendered in a concert. .. To the best of my knowledge, a great scholar vidwan like Mani Iyer even, left out the ' added -cited' stanzas in veLLaith thaamaraip poovil iruppALL. .. because the poet is not actually singing about Saraswathi but about 'muse'. ..and anything that is of inspirational nature is 'divine' and divinity can be secular. and poetically , the leftout stanzas are a bit of anti-climax.
Our artistes especially MSS ,DKP and NCV had great artistic sensibility and cultural sensitivity. For example, MS would leave out the kakasuran episode in Ennaganu Ramabajana because it was unbecoming of even Valmiki ( perhaps an adulteration by a vulgar mind.).even if Badrachalam Ramadasar kruthi has that stanza.
Another instance is the rendering of yaro ivar yaro.. Actually, Arunachalak kavi song is vulgarly describing Lord Rama wondering about the physical charms' of Janaki but both MS and DKP sing it as Sita wondering about Lord Rama,making suitable changes.
All the Barathy poems mentioned have left out some passages( on second reading...rightly so!) . Only the Kalki lyrics have been sung exactly as written. Even Namakkal kavigyar poem has been truncated. ( the left out passages are of great value, however. )
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The purpose of my post is to emphasize that great music. can be about themes not directly talking about the Hindu pantheon of gods and and their consorts. and can be non-superstious ( all astrology stuff is a curse.... GrahangaL ruining countless lives for centuries) ( to be continued in my next post)

[RSR]

This forum, I believe is about Caranatic MUSIC and not about literature.
1) Music is about swarams, ragams and the artistic weaving of those swarams into a composition.
2) Music, thus can exist without the support of lyrics and words.
( Modern Western classical music , is ample proof) That is pure music.
3) But, human memory cannot remember 'pure music' unless it is associated with some words. which we call lyrics.
So, lyrics are just a sort of support for the music creation.
4) If lyrics are of this purpose only in a musical composition, it is the duty of a creative artist to make the lyrics as poetic as possible and of a noble theme because if the theme/ lyrics/ poetry are of low quality, it makes the musical composition even of rare genius, banal.
5) One need not know the meaning of the lyrics. Hundreds of classical tunes rendered by Lata Mangeshkar are no less captivating to one who knows no Hindi. Sometimes, not knowing the language may be a blessing in disguise for the listener is spared the agony of cheap lyrics. .
How would a tamizh like to hear 'வெல்ல தாமரை பூவில் இருப்பால் ... not at all unlikely by our infamous transliteration schemes. I dont think, there is any reverse transliteration engine which can create the exact tamil original from English transliteration.
6) By secular songs, I do not mean atheistic songs. A secular song can be very much 'spiritual'. It is mere obfuscation to argue on that point. Are the songs , about the usual gods like Siva, Nataraja, VISHNU, Krishna, Rama, Murugan, Vinayagar, parvathi, Lakshmi and about the parivaramas? If not, the song is secular.

7) Any body can write a few lines of good rhyming poem but not even one in a thousand can crate a musical bar. It is of a higher form of muse. When music had been scandalized by association with erotic themes little different from record dance in temple festival ( even the honorable judiciary cannot tolerate it! God bless them) , what is there , left to be handled? That is why our venerated vaggeyakaras chose devotional music as theme.
The songs that I have given are examples of secular theme with great music, . but very very rare indeed.
I dont think, any thing can be clearer about the unique nature of CM.

[sankark]

7) Any body can write a few lines of good rhyming poem

I bow to you sir.

[RSR]

@15->sankark-> namaskaaram

[RSR]

I think, Smt.MSS rendering of Suddhananda Barathy's poem, 'aruL purivaay karuNaik kadale' in Ragam Hamsadwani can be included in this list.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... uikkadalae
அருள் புரிவாய் கருணைக் கடலே
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It is a much nicer example for Hamsdwani than the usual vathaapi ganapathim ! Blasphemy! ?