Managing music collection

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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ajaysimha
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#1 Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

Hi rasikas,

Over the years I have collected ample number of music recording(mp3's and mp4's) which consumes a lot space on hand-held device.

So is there any solution where I can store the recording's is the right way
so that I don't loose any/
make it easy for sharing/
listen online or offline

Is asked this coz we may enhance the quality / art of storage.

ram1999
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#2 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ram1999 »

ajaysimha wrote: 02 Jul 2018, 00:08 Hi rasikas,

Over the years I have collected ample number of music recording(mp3's and mp4's) which consumes a lot space on hand-held device.

So is there any solution where I can store the recording's is the right way
so that I don't loose any/
make it easy for sharing/
listen online or offline

Is asked this coz we may enhance the quality / art of storage.
Guess, the best way to store is
1/ External Hard Drives
2/ Couple of back ups of the external Device
3/ Put it on the cloud so that it is far safer and retrievable any time / any place.

I used to have recordings in tapes which i used to back up on another tape. Then moved to CDs / Hard disks, portable / bulky ones.

Now no back ups. Thanks to plenty of recordings in Sangeethapriya, Youtube and many more sites and resources.

Hardly do I touch the hard disks!

RSR
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#3 Re: Managing music collection

Post by RSR »

In my opinion, what I am doing is the least expensive, safest and easiest method. Google Drive! I am sure that you have a gmail account. I would even suggest that you create a special gmail account ,say, something like ajayan.music . Any one with gmail account can open a free account in google drive. Just google for Google drive.
We get 15 GB of space for free. Considering that most mp3 / mp4 may not take more than 5 mb, that is a huge facility for free. We can get instructions in 'how to use google drive'. We need not install anything. Just create mydrive' providing your gmail id. and then create categories of folders for artistes and start uploading .
Each upload may take some time and we need patience. After the upload is complete , we can get a URL .
it is safe to carefully note down the respective URL say in a notepad page for reference.
A suggestion. First of all convert all your mp3 files into mp4. There is a free on-line facility which works like a charm. https://mp3toolbox.net/mp3_to_mp4#.WzoG27hHNdk. It is free and legal. All that you need is an image because mp4 needs it. I have a folder for such nice images of artistes like Smt.MS, Smt.DKP , MLV and others. If we place mp4 files in drive, later on, you can easily embed the mp4 from drive in your sites.google.com/site/ajayanmusic ( just an example) and the mp4 can be played in the page itself without having to download. It is far better than embedding youtube. The viewer will never see a blank space that mars the page.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... hari-naama
The advantage is that we need not share the drive URL directly but share the mp4 only.
And then, you can add lyrics, meaning and other information gradually. quoting scholars in our forum . and others.
A sample is give n below. Would love to get feedback. ( A request... confine to classical music alone. and no personal photos as in facebook. )

Another example is given below.
( note the Drive URL.. above the embedded mp4...This is a rare song from my personal collection) just for our reference)
https://sites.google.com/site/dkpattamm ... -kannam-ma

ajaysimha
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#4 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

thank you ram for the suggestion

ajaysimha
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#5 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

thanks RSR for posting a beautiful and practical write up for managing music collection.
it sounds great, as you have mentioned the steps precisely.

one more thing, i did not understand why you mentioned to convert the mp3 to mp4 . any specific reason?
i feel mp4 would consume more space than mp3's ???

is they any app or s/w that can play music directly from google-drive.
or how do we use google drive in offline mode as a music player.

ajaysimha
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#6 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

need one more clarification.

on what basis will we sort the recordings (or) which is the best way to categorize / organize the recordings

ragams (individual ragas or melakartha ragas)
composers (Thyagarajar, dikshitar, shyama sastrigal, OVK ...)
singers (mss, dkp, mdr, ,ssi, ost, aruna, maharajapuram ...)
albums/concerts (based on names of album or concert)
type of composition(krithi, dasarapada , padam, javali, thillana, ragamalika, virutham, shlokam, swarajathi, varnam.... )

CRama
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#7 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

Ajayasinha, I will just tell about my cataloging. I have got a massive collection of concerts- collected for over 40 years now. I have converted all my collections into MP3 and I am storing in three hard disks of 1 Tb each.
One hard disk I have named GREAT MASTERS. Within that there are two folder- MALE and FEMALE.. I am sorting concerts based on the singer's name and have put in these folders. Each concert is one folder with the list of songs. Wherever available, the accompanists name, place and year and embedded.

Another hard disk I have named TODAYS STARS- all current musicians arranged in the same manner as above.
The third hard disk is for storing Instrumental- with separate folders for Violin, Flute etc and sub folders for each vidwan, Inside that each folder for each concert.

Upanyasams, Lec dems, Radio features all have been stored in this HD. duly listed in individual folders/subfolders.

You can also create sub folders for assorted songs based on different composers. I have got one Folder for Navarathri Mandapam concerts. Within that sub folders for each day's concerts. within that , each folder for each vidwan singing that particular days' concert. Eg. Devi Jagajanani.

I am yet to explore Google drive, Cloud etc.

ajaysimha
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#8 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

thanks CRama.

RSR
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#9 Re: Managing music collection

Post by RSR »

ajaysimha wrote: 04 Jul 2018, 13:28 thanks RSR for posting a beautiful and practical write up for managing music collection.
it sounds great, as you have mentioned the steps precisely.

one more thing, i did not understand why you mentioned to convert the mp3 to mp4 . any specific reason?
i feel mp4 would consume more space than mp3's ???

is they any app or s/w that can play music directly from google-drive.
or how do we use google drive in offline mode as a music player.
ajaysimha
Thank you very much for the kind words. Now to your queries one by one.
1) size of mp3 and mp4. Just last month, I had downloaded the 14 songs that Smt.MS had rendered in her Music Academy 1968 concert ( Sangitha kalanidhi award). from sangeethamshare site. I wanted to share those krithis more widely in youtube as well as in my website as homage to MS. The songs were in mp3 format. It is not possible to upload mp3 files to youtube. though soundcloud accepts it ( supported by google) However, youtube is better known among rasikas. So, I converted the mp3 to mp4. and uploaded mp4. to youtube. Youtube will then convert the mp4 to flas format for faster loading. The first song in that concert was in Harikambodhi )'enthara nee thana_ by Thyagaraja swami. The mp3 file size was 14.6 MB. I just added an image as without an image , mp3 cannot become mp4. The size of mp4 file was 15.5 MB .Kust a marginal increase accounting for the image.
https://youtu.be/yxvRTyG9Sx4
I am yet to embed the mp4 in
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... 68-concert
It is very easy as there is provision for embedding from google drive.
as also youtube.
The advantage is that we can add things like lyrics etc. and provide a page each for each song for fast loading.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -nindradum

I think, I have brought out the advantage of mp4. It can be played in the page itself and sharing the URL is easier. ( will continue in next post.. Kindly give a day or two).

ajaysimha
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#10 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

thats the right as you mentioned, RSR
we can make our collection reach the mass audiance through youtube.

ajaysimha
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#11 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

ajaysimha wrote: 04 Jul 2018, 14:23 need one more clarification.

on what basis will we sort the recordings (or) which is the best way to categorize / organize the recordings

ragams (individual ragas or melakartha ragas)
composers (Thyagarajar, dikshitar, shyama sastrigal, OVK ...)
singers (mss, dkp, mdr, ,ssi, ost, aruna, maharajapuram ...)
albums/concerts (based on names of album or concert)
type of composition(krithi, dasarapada , padam, javali, thillana, ragamalika, virutham, shlokam, swarajathi, varnam.... )
i asked this because, i sort it one way.
and when new recording comes i will not be able to fit into the old structure.
again reorganizing take more effort.

CRama
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#12 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

I do it by using folders and sub folders. You can just go an adding. You need not reorganise. To illustrate
TODAYS STARS
--MALE
--FEMALE
WITHIIN MALE- Folders will be opened
--ABHISHEK RAGHURAM
--T.M.KRISHNA
--SANJAY SUBRAMANIAM AND SO ON.
WITHIN ABHISHEK RAGHURAM SUB FOLDRS WILL BE OPENED
Concert !
Concert 2
Concert 3 and so on.

CRama
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#13 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

I am sorting it concert wise as you can see from above. Not ragam wise or composer wise. There are better methods also. which others are doing.

RSR
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#14 Re: Managing music collection

Post by RSR »

ajaysimha wrote: 05 Jul 2018, 16:15
ajaysimha wrote: 04 Jul 2018, 14:23 need one more clarification.

on what basis will we sort the recordings (or) which is the best way to categorize / organize the recordings

ragams (individual ragas or melakartha ragas)
composers (Thyagarajar, dikshitar, shyama sastrigal, OVK ...)
singers (mss, dkp, mdr, ,ssi, ost, aruna, maharajapuram ...)
albums/concerts (based on names of album or concert)
type of composition(krithi, dasarapada , padam, javali, thillana, ragamalika, virutham, shlokam, swarajathi, varnam.... )
i asked this because, i sort it one way.
and when new recording comes i will not be able to fit into the old structure.
again reorganizing take more effort.
==========================================
AJAY!
What you have in mind, is a very big project. Commendable, of course. Wishing you Good Luck.
I thought about your problem for quite some time and since you agree that youtube may be the best means of sharing with the public, i think, you can avoid a lot of labour and time, by not using Google Drive. Here are the steps that I would suggest. 1) First and foremost, create your own google site. ( sites.google.com). I too had a plan like yours but the task is daunting and it is just waiting for attention.
https://sites.google.com/site/carnaticgems/
My aim was not to present entire concerts but individual krithis only .
2) To begin with just take up a single concert. The most important thing is that we should not attempt to upload the entire concert. Consider, how nicely, people upload concerts in sangeethamsghare. They first breakup the full concert into individual mp3 files for each krithi , name them and give a brief description. The example already cited by me in this thread about Smt.MS's concert in music academy illustrates it. We may have to learn to use audio-cutter. I think, VLC media player offers that facility.
Now, let us say, that we have split up the concert into some 15 mp3 segments with description. The next step is to convert each of them into mp4 ( already explained....if you want to upload to youtube.
Now we are ready to upload them . Do not upload them in a single bunch. It takes much time to upload and secondly, users hardly care to spend 2 hours at a stretch to listen to the entire concert. So, we must give suitable index names. For example say, ajay-ms-concert-4-song-5 ) just an example). You can create your own channel in youtube. Always remember very carefully to note down the index name and the corresponding youtube URL.
Now you have done a great service by sharing precious material with the public. But the remaining problem is to create a page that gives description of the concert, the individual songs and the corresponding youtube URL. That is where the usefulness of the googlesite comes in. As I have done in carnatic gems, you can freely create page for singer, composer, type of krithi , anything. Cross referencing and altering, adding can be done easily. Each page can have sub-pages too.
Just use the classic style site with sidebar.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... kshmi/home
We need not embed the youtunbe. If the page contains 15 songs and if you embed 15 videos , the page gets deadly slow in loading and irritates. So the best thing is to mention the URL of the video in you tube.
To make look appealing, we can place an image of the video-still.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... 68-concert
( more after your response). Best Regards.

RSR
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#15 Re: Managing music collection

Post by RSR »

CRama wrote: 05 Jul 2018, 17:15 I do it by using folders and sub folders. You can just go an adding. You need not reorganise. To illustrate
TODAYS STARS
--MALE
--FEMALE
...............etc
=====================
CRama
ji,
Are you uploading the concerts to sangeethashare? By itself, it may not be enough but after uploading , you can adopt the steps outlined in the previous post, if you find it useful and feasible.
Best Regards.

CRama
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#16 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

Another friend has formed an excel programme for indexing. It lends for sorting on any basis as also locate any particular kriti.

Regarding uploading to Sangeetapriya, there is one folder in my name where I uploaded a few concerts some ten years ago.- some of RKS, DKJ, MSS, TNS etc. Then considering the time, I stopped this.If any body want any particular concert, I will definitely share.

Purist
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#17 Re: Managing music collection

Post by Purist »

#16 CRama -there was a mention long back about a radio concert of RKS (LGJ/PMI) in your collection .Parmathmudu (Vagadeeswari) was rendered in this program. Appreciate if you can share thro Sangeethapriya.

CRama
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#18 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

Now I have forgotten how to upload in Sangeetapriya. I will upload in this forum shortly.
Mridangam is not by Palghat Mani Iyer,

CRama
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#19 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

I am giving below the links of the RKS concert (select portions) held in Swati Tirunal Sangita Sabha, TVM in 1981. This was relayed over AIR. THe accompanists are LJ and Vellore Ramabhadran.

Nadatanumanisam- https://www.sendspace.com/file/7hgf92
Raa Raa Phanisayana-https://www.sendspace.com/file/fcql9v
Sivasiva ena rada- https://www.sendspace.com/file/fma8nt
Siva siva ena contd - https://www.sendspace.com/file/14yy1u
Saketaniketana- https://www.sendspace.com/file/fv8mgc
Paramathmudu- https://www.sendspace.com/file/oqksh1
Endukudayaradura- https://www.sendspace.com/file/x4eup5

Purist
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#20 Re: Managing music collection

Post by Purist »

Grateful thanks CRama. This is the one I was looking for, a classic rendition of Paramathmudu.

ajaysimha
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#21 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

CRama ji your idea of storing recordings can work fine.
as sorting by concert-wise can avoid the confusions also provides a broader view.
also thanks for sharing RKS concert.

ajaysimha
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#22 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

Thanks RSR ji for giving the solution for indexing through google sites with descriptions.
your idea works fine for self-listening and sharing.

ajaysimha
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#23 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

after the guidelines, i think i can start with my mini-project.
thanks to(ram, rsr and c rama)

RSR
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#24 Re: Managing music collection

Post by RSR »

ajaysimha wrote: 09 Jul 2018, 18:00 Thanks RSR ji for giving the solution for indexing through google sites with descriptions.
your idea works fine for self-listening and sharing.
Ajay!
I am plain RSR .No ji please.
Glad that you like some of the ideas.
Wishing you GRAND SUCCESS!

ajaysimha
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#25 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

RSR wrote: 09 Jul 2018, 20:30
ajaysimha wrote: 09 Jul 2018, 18:00 Thanks RSR ji for giving the solution for indexing through google sites with descriptions.
your idea works fine for self-listening and sharing.
Ajay!
I am plain RSR .No ji please.
Glad that you like some of the ideas.
Wishing you GRAND SUCCESS!
Okey!!!

CRama
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#26 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

Ajaysinha, Some more tips.
When you sort in the order of concerts, under the folder of each artiste, say M.S.Subbalakshmi, open a sub folder named Odd pieces, or Assorted to store individual songs which you will get from many sources. They may not be full concerts- but some rare pieces. That you can put in this folder.

You can also create folders for songs on specific Gods which will be convenient to play on festivals- say Vinayaka Charthi, Gokulashtami, Navarathri etc. Create folders like GANAPATHY SONGS, DEVI KRITIS, SONGS ON RAMA, SONGS ON KRISHNA, SIVA KRITIS etc. where you can put such songs. Here I will advise you to take into account the uniformity in recording quality, sruti etc to attain best listening pleasure. For that, sort out songs from Pre recorded casettes in one folder and from radio concerts in another folder. They will have uniform quality. Don't extract songs from live concerts and collate. They will have different recording levels and volumes. It will not be easy to listen at one stretch.

Have separate folders for STOTRAMS, INSTRUMENTAL. Under INSTRUMENTAL, create sub folders for VIOLIN, VEENA, MANDOLIN etc and within that sub folders for each concert.

CRama
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#27 Re: Managing music collection

Post by CRama »

Say for instance, RAMA NAMA PRABHAVAM by T.N.Seshagopalan will feature both in the in the concert folder as well as in the Songs on Rama folder.

harimau
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#28 Re: Managing music collection

Post by harimau »

ajaysimha wrote: 02 Jul 2018, 00:08 Hi rasikas,

Over the years I have collected ample number of music recording(mp3's and mp4's) which consumes a lot space on hand-held device.

So is there any solution where I can store the recording's is the right way
so that I don't loose any/
make it easy for sharing/
listen online or offline

Is asked this coz we may enhance the quality / art of storage.
For retrieval, what you are looking for is the use of multiple indices which may be applicable.

In a library, books are ordered and stored in shelves according to the Dewey Decimal System. However, you don't look for books by their number according to the Dewey Decimal System. For instance, you don't look for books in Analytical Geometry by looking up the index number 516.3; rather you look for a specific title using the Title Index or for an author by using the Author Index.

In a similar manner, you want to store your music using several indices.

To take a common example of a song sung by all and sundry, you could take "Kurai Ondrum Illai". You would want to store it using the title of the song as an index. You would then want to create an index for the name of the singer, such as MSS, Sudha Raghunathan, your Neighborhood Mami, etc. Notice that since MSS has sung it in countless concerts, neither of these indices is unique. You probably want to use the date the concert was sung as another Index and this us likely to be unique. You would then want to use indices for the raga and the tala so that you could choose all songs in a specific raga or tala out of the storage. You would want to use venue/auditorium as an index so you can look for this song as sung at the Madras Music Academy. Then you might want the composer's name as an index so that you could pull out all of Rajaji's compositions.

You can think of any other method by which you may want to retrieve the song and create indices for those.

You can store the music itself as a BLOB (Binary Large OBject) in a relational data base such as Oracle.

With that many cross-indices, you can access your music any way you want and you won't be limited by the folders-sub folders scheme nor will you duplicate the Music in your system. Of course, entire copies of the data base can and should be saved in multiple locations so that there is no chance of losing the digital version of your music.

If you don't understand any of what I have said, hire a code coolie to do the work for you.

ajaysimha
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#29 Re: Managing music collection

Post by ajaysimha »

thanks for suggestions Crama and harimau

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