One kriti in different ragas

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jodha
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#1 One kriti in different ragas

Post by jodha »

Recently I happened to hear ST's gopalahapahimam in revagupti as well as bhoopalam by different artists.
While I heard the revagupti version tuned and popularised by KVN no idea about the creators of other versions.I think it is sung in bowli too.
Manasuloni and samajavaragamana are sung in hindolam as well as varamu.
Ramanukku mannanmudi in hindolam and ananda bhairavi
Yaro ivar yaro in bhairavi and saveri.
Seethamma mayamma in vasanta abd lalitha
Kandahjoodumi in vachaspati and lathangi.
There may be more.I am interested in knowing how the other versions came into vogue.
To my horror not surprise one vidushi sang veenabheri with chathushrithi dhaivatham.
Nagumomu ofcourse in abheri as well as karnatakadevagandhari.

bhakthim dehi
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#2 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

A rare krithi of Saint Tyagaraja, née chithamu naa bhagyamayya is sung in Vijayavasantham. But, that krithi had a version in Jeevanthini. Except the one in YT, I don't know anyone singing in the latter ragam.

SrinathK
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#3 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by SrinathK »

mora pEtitE - thODi and rUpavati
gnyAna mosaga rAdA - pUrvikalyANi and shadvitamArgiNi

And this might be a shocker - mOkshamu galadA (and sAramati) was originally sung with D2 and not the melanchony D1 of today. Only T Brinda continued to stick to the old ways and stopped singing it on stage entirely, admitting that no one would be able to recognize it ! :shock:

Tvm
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#4 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by Tvm »

Greetings, we also have chintA nAsti kilA - SankarAbharaNam and few artists sing it in navroj . This Kriti is composed by Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra . Regards Tvm

jodha
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#5 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by jodha »

Sadashiva brahmendra kritis and Jayadevar ashtapathis are sung in many ragas as the composers are not vaggeyakaras.so it doesn't come as a surprise at all.
Dr.BMK has sung manasa sancharare in pilu.

Lakshman
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#6 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by Lakshman »

Purandaradasa was a vaggEyakAra and many of his krtis are sung in different rAgAs. For example gajavadana bEDuvE has been rendered in hamsadhvani, dhanyAsi, gauLa, gambhIranATa,kEdAra and shrIranjani.

harimau
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#7 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by harimau »

You should hear Sri Neelothpala Nayike. It has been rendered in Narireethigowlai as it should be, in Reethigowlai by none other than Mangalampalli Balamuralikrishna, and using Reethigowlai's arohanam and Natabhairavi's avarohanam by one mami!

bhakthim dehi
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#8 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Jayadeva was a vaggeyakara.

bhakthim dehi
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#9 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

@harimau : unless that Mami is a known musician with a good tradition, version by that unknown Mami carries no importance.
I can quote a mama too singing some unknown krithis of Deekshithar!!

bhakthim dehi
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#10 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

@Srinath : Can you validate your statement on Saramathi?

shankarank
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#11 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by shankarank »

SrinathK wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 11:21 And this might be a shocker - mOkshamu galadA (and sAramati) was originally sung with D2 and not the melanchony D1 of today.
Dwelling too much on such a rAGa will likely get it close to kaRnATaka kApi with only P missing in descent. So all such usages where gamakas have a role have become jAru favored ones. Talk about northern invasion. sOha rasam. Enjoy the layam sportfans!

harimau
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#12 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by harimau »

bhakthim dehi wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 22:11 @harimau : unless that Mami is a known musician with a good tradition, version by that unknown Mami carries no importance.
I can quote a mama too singing some unknown krithis of Deekshithar!!
I heard the unknown mami on All India Radio so she has some grade from AIR. It is just that I chanced upon that song in the middle of an hour-long broadcast and I didn't have the patience to listen all the way to the end of the broadcast to see if her name would be announced.

For that matter, the dwithiya vibhakthi krithi Neelothpalambam Bhajare is sung by all and sundry including S Sowmya in Reethigowlai while it was also composed only in Narireethigowlai.

Some musicians couldn't accept the fact that Deekshithar could have composed two different songs on the same deity in the same raga and have arbitrarily chosen to alter the raga of Nelothpambam Bhajare.

jodha
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#13 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by jodha »

I think we call some one a vaggeyakara only if they have written and composed their kriti in raga (s).
AFAIK neither Jayadevar nor Purandaradasar had set to tune their creations and documented them for posterity.
Do we have any lineage i.e sishya parampara for these greats? kindly enlighten.

bhakthim dehi
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#14 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

For that matter, the dwithiya vibhakthi krithi Neelothpalambam Bhajare is sung by all and sundry including S Sowmya in Reethigowlai while it was also composed only in Narireethigowlai.
Same feeling here. But our point gets valid only if this krithi was composed by Sri Muthuwamy Deekshithar. If it was composed by an unknown composer who is totally unaware of the old structure of Reethigowlai (like many in the present era), we are wrong !!
I heard the unknown mami on All India Radio so she has some grade from AIR. It is just that I chanced upon that song in the middle of an hour-long broadcast and I didn't have the patience to listen all the way to the end of the broadcast to see if her name would be announced.
Very bold to present in AIR, knowing it would be recorded.

bhakthim dehi
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#15 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

AFAIK neither Jayadevar nor Purandaradasar had set to tune their creations and documented them for posterity.

There is a treatise giving explanation on the raga-s handled by Jayadevar.
Purandaradasa too has mentioned the raga names. I have heard Suladi-s of Purandaradasa with notation can be seen in some old manuscripts.

bhakthim dehi
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#16 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

Dwelling too much on such a rAGa will likely get it close to kaRnATaka kApi with only P missing in descent. So all such usages where gamakas have a role have become jAru favored ones. Talk about northern invasion. sOha rasam. Enjoy the layam sportfans!
Singing this krithi with a predominance of soka rasam is a leter developed one.
Which world you are in?
Gamakas has lost their role long time back. Its briga's time now.

SrinathK
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#17 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by SrinathK »

bhakthim dehi wrote: 22 Jul 2018, 22:13 @Srinath : Can you validate your statement on Saramathi?
I don't remember now where I read it. Maybe it was from rasikas.org only. Brinda Mukta for the same reason also sung sAmaja vara gamanA and manasulOni with D2 only.

bhakthim dehi
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#18 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by bhakthim dehi »

I don't remember now where I read it. Maybe it was from rasikas.org only. Brinda Mukta for the same reason also sung sAmaja vara gamanA and manasulOni with D2 only.
Not this one. My enquiry was on your statement that Saramathi 'originally' had d2.

ajaysimha
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#19 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by ajaysimha »

Veera hanumathe of dikshitar is been sung in both kaapi(unpopular version) and kaanada(popular, accepted and sung by many)
but the raga mudhra mentions it as kaapi

chetulara singaamu is sung in both kharaharapriya and bhairavi
Last edited by ajaysimha on 25 Jul 2018, 14:29, edited 1 time in total.

ajaysimha
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#20 Re: One kriti in different ragas

Post by ajaysimha »

the reasons for @One kriti in different ragas might be:

w.r.t raga point of view:

1.allied ragas might be chosen
ex:(sri and madhyamavathi .....bhagyada lakshmi baramma-Purandara is sung in both the ragams)

2.popular tunes might be choosen i mean the audava raga's are popular and catchy
ex:(sriranjini and abhogi ..... gurupadaravinda komalam-OVK is sung in both the ragams)

3.janya ragas might be choosen
ex:(may songs mentioned as shankarabharana in purandaradasa's text are usually sung in its possible janya ragas)

4.or the very old ragas that were unpopular(gurjari, deshakshi, gowda malhar , gundakriya etc)or actual tuning was lost
are re-tuned to present day ragas by popular gurus or musicians
ex.(annamacharya, purandaradasar compositions)

5.or even depend on pathantharam

6.trend of converting the bigger composition to ragamalika
(to convey emotions of each passage)

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