Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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HarishankarK
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#1 Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

Hi all
I am asking this on behalf of my friend for his 8 year old boy. This family has no idea about classical music but my friend wants his son to lear some instrument which will be easy to learn

I know veenai and violin are really hard but what about flute and keyboard?
Can I suggest that keyboard is easy?

nadhasudha
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#2 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by nadhasudha »

HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:03 Hi all
I am asking this on behalf of my friend for his 8 year old boy. This family has no idea about classical music but my friend wants his son to lear some instrument which will be easy to learn

I know veenai and violin are really hard but what about flute and keyboard?
Can I suggest that keyboard is easy?
Carnatic music on instruments takes years of learning and practice to play reasonably well.

Yes keyboard is easy. However the limitations of playing carnatic music on keyboard have been discussed before on this forum.

MobileMusic
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#3 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by MobileMusic »

Flute offers dynamics like Legatos, Glides, Vibratos, Quarter-Tones/Micro-Tones, etc. to play expressively and also allows to play really fast after some practice. It is smaller, cheaper, easy to carry around and easy to replace if it gets damaged.

Keyboard can offer some dynamics too with some limitations and is great if you want to get into Synthesis and Sound Design later on. I have Roland JD-Xi Digital/Analog crossover 3-octave mini synth and I love it (it can switch to all the 7 octaves). No other synth on the market has its built-in Sequencer that lets us create/compose songs quickly.

There are a lot of cool DAW/synth apps on iOS especially - GarageBand (free), Cubasis, SynthMaster One, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog, SwarPlug, GeoShred, Geo Synth, Poison-202, Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, SpaceCraft, SynthOne (free), Sunrizer, Medly, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, etc.

On Android has latency issues. However, FL Studio Mobile is the best on Android. Also Caustic (free) is cool.

Apps for expressive playing - SynthMaster One, Animoog, GeoShred, Geo Synth, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, Poison-202, SwarPlug (Indian instruments). SynthMaster One is a BEAST app that got ported from its desktop version to iOS, as-is!

Not all apps can record as some plug into other host apps that can record. Apps that can record: GarageBand (free), Cubasis, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog (IAP), Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, Sunrizer, Medly, etc.

For plugin apps, try to get ones that are Audio Unit Extensions (AUv3) as that is the future for plugins.

CUBASIS is the best DAW app with a very high-quality, stable and fun to use with a great workflow! Combine it with SynthMaster One and SwarPlug - that is a great combination. However, I see people also use GeoShred, Geo Synth, Animoog, etc. to play classical music.

Other apps to try - Music Memos (free), Synthesia, VocaLive, djay, SmartClick (free), Cleartune (free), AudioShare, Audiobus, Final Touch, etc.

Community apps - TikTok by musical.ly, Smule Sing

The coolest thing about DAW/synth apps is - they come with hundreds of instruments and they are like an animation studio - we can create a song, edit it and polish it to perfection! Mobile apps are so much cheaper and come at the fraction of the cost of desktop apps.

If you want to be mobile, go for a Flute. Apps are mobile, always fun and a great source to learn from. Watch demo videos on YouTube before purchasing apps or to learn apps.

Check out my cover song videos on my channel created using Cubasis, SynthMaster One, Poison-202, GarageBand, JD-Xi, etc -

https://www.youtube.com/mobilemusic

Up next - a super-hit Bollywood cover song in a couple of days...

HTH

Shekar

HarishankarK
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#4 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

MobileMusic wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:45 Flute offers dynamics like Legatos, Glides, Vibratos, Quarter-Tones/Micro-Tones, etc. to play expressively and also allows to play really fast after some practice. It is smaller, cheaper, easy to carry around and easy to replace if it gets damaged.

Keyboard can offer some dynamics too with some limitations and is great if you want to get into Synthesis and Sound Design later on. I have Roland JD-Xi Digital/Analog crossover 3-octave mini synth and I love it (it can switch to all the 7 octaves). No other synth on the market has its built-in Sequencer that lets us create/compose songs quickly.

There are a lot of cool DAW/synth apps on iOS especially - GarageBand (free), Cubasis, SynthMaster One, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog, SwarPlug, GeoShred, Geo Synth, Poison-202, Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, SpaceCraft, SynthOne (free), Sunrizer, Medly, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, etc.

On Android has latency issues. However, FL Studio Mobile is the best on Android. Also Caustic (free) is cool.

Apps for expressive playing - SynthMaster One, Animoog, GeoShred, Geo Synth, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, Poison-202, SwarPlug (Indian instruments). SynthMaster One is a BEAST app that got ported from its desktop version to iOS, as-is!

Not all apps can record as some plug into other host apps that can record. Apps that can record: GarageBand (free), Cubasis, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog (IAP), Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, Sunrizer, Medly, etc.

For plugin apps, try to get ones that are Audio Unit Extensions (AUv3) as that is the future for plugins.

CUBASIS is the best DAW app with a very high-quality, stable and fun to use with a great workflow! Combine it with SynthMaster One and SwarPlug - that is a great combination. However, I see people also use GeoShred, Geo Synth, Animoog, etc. to play classical music.

Other apps to try - Music Memos (free), Synthesia, VocaLive, djay, SmartClick (free), Cleartune (free), AudioShare, Audiobus, Final Touch, etc.

Community apps - TikTok by musical.ly, Smule Sing

The coolest thing about DAW/synth apps is - they come with hundreds of instruments and they are like an animation studio - we can create a song, edit it and polish it to perfection! Mobile apps are so much cheaper and come at the fraction of the cost of desktop apps.

If you want to be mobile, go for a Flute. Apps are mobile, always fun and a great source to learn from. Watch demo videos on YouTube before purchasing apps or to learn apps.

Check out my cover song videos on my channel created using Cubasis, SynthMaster One, Poison-202, GarageBand, JD-Xi, etc -

https://www.youtube.com/mobilemusic

Up next - a super-hit Bollywood cover song in a couple of days...

HTH

Shekar
Thanks but couldn't understand anything

HarishankarK
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#5 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

nadhasudha wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:20
HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:03 Yes keyboard is easy. However the limitations of playing carnatic music on keyboard have been discussed before on this forum.
Thanks for responding
Good to know keyboard is easier -I will suggest that.
Limitations of the instrument should be okay for a young child to start initiation to CM.

Sivaramakrishnan
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#6 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Initially put the boy in carnatic vocal (basic lessons). You may decide on the instrument after a few months.

HarishankarK
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#7 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

Sivaramakrishnan wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 12:22 Initially put the boy in carnatic vocal (basic lessons). You may decide on the instrument after a few months.
Good suggestion but the boy's parents want him to take up an instrument.

rshankar
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#8 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by rshankar »

HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:11Good suggestion but the boy's parents want him to take up an instrument.
What does the boy want?????

SrinathK
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#9 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by SrinathK »

Let him learn a piano or a keyboard for a while. That will help his pitch sense. Then we can see what he likes to play.

RasikasModerator2
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#10 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by RasikasModerator2 »

MobileMusic wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:45 Flute offers dynamics like Legatos, Glides, Vibratos, Quarter-Tones/Micro-Tones, etc. to play expressively and also allows to play really fast after some practice. It is smaller, cheaper, easy to carry around and easy to replace if it gets damaged.

Keyboard can offer some dynamics too with some limitations and is great if you want to get into Synthesis and Sound Design later on. I have Roland JD-Xi Digital/Analog crossover 3-octave mini synth and I love it (it can switch to all the 7 octaves). No other synth on the market has its built-in Sequencer that lets us create/compose songs quickly.

There are a lot of cool DAW/synth apps on iOS especially - GarageBand (free), Cubasis, SynthMaster One, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog, SwarPlug, GeoShred, Geo Synth, Poison-202, Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, SpaceCraft, SynthOne (free), Sunrizer, Medly, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, etc.

On Android has latency issues. However, FL Studio Mobile is the best on Android. Also Caustic (free) is cool.

Apps for expressive playing - SynthMaster One, Animoog, GeoShred, Geo Synth, iFretless Bass, ThumbJam, Noise (free), BeBot, Poison-202, SwarPlug (Indian instruments). SynthMaster One is a BEAST app that got ported from its desktop version to iOS, as-is!

Not all apps can record as some plug into other host apps that can record. Apps that can record: GarageBand (free), Cubasis, FL Studio Mobile, Animoog (IAP), Gadget, Caustic (free), BeatMaker, Sunrizer, Medly, etc.

For plugin apps, try to get ones that are Audio Unit Extensions (AUv3) as that is the future for plugins.

CUBASIS is the best DAW app with a very high-quality, stable and fun to use with a great workflow! Combine it with SynthMaster One and SwarPlug - that is a great combination. However, I see people also use GeoShred, Geo Synth, Animoog, etc. to play classical music.

Other apps to try - Music Memos (free), Synthesia, VocaLive, djay, SmartClick (free), Cleartune (free), AudioShare, Audiobus, Final Touch, etc.

Community apps - TikTok by musical.ly, Smule Sing

The coolest thing about DAW/synth apps is - they come with hundreds of instruments and they are like an animation studio - we can create a song, edit it and polish it to perfection! Mobile apps are so much cheaper and come at the fraction of the cost of desktop apps.

If you want to be mobile, go for a Flute. Apps are mobile, always fun and a great source to learn from. Watch demo videos on YouTube before purchasing apps or to learn apps.

Check out my cover song videos on my channel created using Cubasis, SynthMaster One, Poison-202, GarageBand, JD-Xi, etc -

https://www.youtube.com/mobilemusic

Up next - a super-hit Bollywood cover song in a couple of days...

HTH

Shekar
Please don't put up a billboard here that looks like ad spam. I assume you are here to participate and along the way tell us who you are and drop a few words about what you're doing - give us a link and we'll have a look at it. If necessary make one thread for apps and post one thing at a time. Please don't invade threads like this in the future or else it will be considered spamming.

VK RAMAN
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#11 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by VK RAMAN »

Parents can keep playing cm or instruments at home and children express their interest by listening to those unconsciously. Parents can guide the child but not force. Parents must show interest to learn themselves; one has to role model.Only teacher cannot be responsible for children's learning. IMHO

HarishankarK
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#12 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

VK RAMAN wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 18:54 Parents can keep playing cm or instruments at home and children express their interest by listening to those unconsciously. Parents can guide the child but not force. Parents must show interest to learn themselves; one has to role model.Only teacher cannot be responsible for children's learning. IMHO
Your points are all correct - but in some circumstances parents donot have any idea about Carnatic/classical music because of their family/background etc., - but they see many young kids performing etc., etc., and aspire the same for their own kid(s) as well - and reach out to their friends / colleagues who have some idea about this. It is very hard to expect these people to start listening to Carnatic music.

ganesh_mourthy
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#13 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Mr. mobilemusic

Thank you for the long information, but it could be confusing to people not enough techsavvy. I think people Like Srikanth can get a quick grasp of it. We are old.

Could you help me understand better if there is anything as close to geoshred in android . I gave up on ipad and the iphone is too small to play anything at all.

GM

SrinathK
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#14 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by SrinathK »

@ganeshmourthy, Much of that info is not relevant to this thread -- so much got dumped in one go, it feels like spam.

I don't get it either as I hardly use a smartphone for anything more than whatsapp or google maps and the camera. My PC is only for listening, recording and storing music.

One of my friends who learnt the keyboard on his own used Synthesia and I remember he'd connect his keyboard to the laptop and play stuff guided by the app.

I do not see how any of this will benefit the OP's friend. @HarishankarK ,If they are new to music, a keyboard or piano base will be very good for elementary music up to geethams. Later on we can see what the kid likes. Vocal lessons of course are a must for Carnatic music.

There are apps, but other than a tambura and a metronome app, the rest are of zero use to a beginner. In fact it takes so much time to get the hang of them that they're not worth it at the start. All these apps, despite their advanced features can be considered much later.

I think the info in this thread is far more useful to beginners : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31729

vichu1947
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#15 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by vichu1947 »

rshankar wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:47
HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:11Good suggestion but the boy's parents want him to take up an instrument.
What does the boy want?????
The boy wants nothing

His parents wants some short cut to success, may be arangetram in 3 years

ganesh_mourthy
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#16 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

I totally agree that the child should start with singing and keyboard first.

Nick H
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#17 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by Nick H »

As a non-player, my first impression of musical instruments is that there are two kinds, of which one provides a little help early on.

My two kinds are those where there is no physical indication of pitch, such as violin, and those where there is, such as a guitar, veena, flute etc.

That second kind of instrument at least gives the novice a clue! However, we all know that carnatic music does not consist of discrete single frequencies anyway, so this initial help may not go far. And the clue may be more or less of a clue. Greatest is the keyboard: press the key, get the note. With other instruments such as wind instruments, we may know which holes to cover, but we still have to adjust the breath.

All that said, I think that it is a useless criteria, because the greater difficulty is in learning the music.

And anyone, taking up any kind of instrument without a feeling of pleasure in its sound and touch is doomed to failure --- or success limited to basic lessons which will sound boring to the player and the audience. They won't keep it up long.

HarishankarK
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#18 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

vichu1947 wrote: 02 Oct 2018, 16:15
rshankar wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:47
HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:11Good suggestion but the boy's parents want him to take up an instrument.
What does the boy want?????
The boy wants nothing

His parents wants some short cut to success, may be arangetram in 3 years
Come on-yours is uncalled for comment ! You are totally barking up the wrong tree here.
This family just wants to start initiating their child into music. All children want to watch movies or play games these days - very few kids show inclination for music, arts etc., voluntarily - if parents don't initiate/support/put a little pressure no kid will take to music or even practise etc.
Last edited by HarishankarK on 03 Oct 2018, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.

HarishankarK
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#19 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

Thanks everyone else - Keyboard it is then!

HarishankarK
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#20 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

rshankar wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:47
What does the boy want?????
[/quote]

I know your question is very fashionable and trying to be over unconventional etc., - but the crux is that in my opinion parents can choose some of the activities that kids can start with and being kids they can learn anything fast.
It's just like going to school - no one asks kids if they want to and all of us know that kids will rather play than go to school. Don't ask these kind of non value add Qs just for trying to be different or open minded.
The boy is just around 8 - he wants to play games/sports etc. He has no idea about this and hence his decision is not reliable in this matter.

rshankar
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#21 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by rshankar »

There’s nothing fashionable or unconventional.... unless it’s in your head. All children, particularly 8 year olds deserve the respect of taking their opinion into account. They may be surprised if they asked him....

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#22 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by uday_shankar »

rshankar wrote: 03 Oct 2018, 04:45 There’s nothing fashionable or unconventional.... unless it’s in your head. All children, particularly 8 year olds deserve the respect of taking their opinion into account. They may be surprised if they asked him....
Yup, in a nutshell.

mridhangam
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#23 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by mridhangam »

Dear Sir

No instrument is easy to learn be it conventional Karnatic Instruments or other western adaptations. Instruments require rigorous practice and constant working. As some other member suggested-Exposure to vocal music is a must before taking up an instrument whether the parents know music or not. Learning Western drums takes lesser time comparatively.

As far as carnatic melodic instruments is concerned it will take anywhere between 7-10 years to have a grip of the subject and to render something decent and acceptable initially.

Just about the same time would take for percussion instruments too.
If you read this month's Sruti issue where i have interviewed Shri Mannargudi Eswaran, he says for mastery over any instrument it is imperative to practice for 7200 hours (or in other words the number of hours a child grows in the womb of a mother). This is the minimum to get some semblance of acceptance and recognition. But dont ask me if every performer has done this. I wudnt know and it is not my area also. But i know very well that those who have come and achieved top positions have toiled and worked hard to come to this stage.

I reiterate that none of the instruments are easy to learn.

Mannarkoil J Balaji

mridhangam
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#24 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by mridhangam »

vichu1947 wrote: 02 Oct 2018, 16:15
rshankar wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:47
HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 17:11Good suggestion but the boy's parents want him to take up an instrument.
What does the boy want?????
The boy wants nothing

His parents wants some short cut to success, may be arangetram in 3 years
this is utterly ridiculous and let us not be a party to such madness.

Mannarkoil J Balaji

SrinathK
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#25 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by SrinathK »

When I was a kid I wanted to play the violin because of all the violin music in my house, that was mostly all we had. If I thought too much about it, I'd realized that it was a harsh and demanding mistress! :lol:, and then I might started having second thoughts and I would not have enjoyed playing it as much as I did.

And that's true for most kids. Music almost always chooses them. All great musicians are who they are because music chose them and they stuck with it.

SrinathK
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#26 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by SrinathK »

Actually with the knowledge and teaching techniques we have today, it is very well possible for a kid who has been well trained and has good grasp to do a proper arangetram in 3 years. It is true for a lot of the big musicians we know.

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#27 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by Nick H »

You may take the horse to water, but what if it doesn't drink? Buy an instrument with a good resale value! And realise that forcing it on the child might put him off music for life.

I think that all the caveats should be headed, but not to overdo the pessimism. See it as giving the child an opportunity. He may take to it or he may not. He may get far, or he may, like me as a child of forty, thoroughly enjoy getting a little way, then shy away from the challenge of getting further. Any exposure to music is good.

rshankar
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#28 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by rshankar »

SrinathK wrote: 03 Oct 2018, 09:48Music almost always chooses them.
Rather like the wands at Ollivander’s? :D

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#29 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

Harishankar might not have imagined his simple query would attract such a huge response from the forumites.
I thought I must add that if the parents / student is serious about Carnatic music, Piano might not be a good option.

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#30 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by SrinathK »

rshankar wrote: 04 Oct 2018, 02:20
SrinathK wrote: 03 Oct 2018, 09:48Music almost always chooses them.
Rather like the wands at Ollivander’s? :D
That's an understatement. Some people are literally born with their anatomy optimized for playing an instrument like the mridangam or the violin.

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#31 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by ganesh_mourthy »

Ah Srikanth!

That anatomy is a different branch of research. Body search before accepting a student. Just kidding !

rshankar
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#32 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by rshankar »

ganesh_mourthy wrote: 05 Oct 2018, 13:45Body search before accepting a student. Just kidding !
The ABT does exactly that - assessing body proportions and flexibility prior to accepting 6 year-olds for initiating ballet classes: but all the children are interested in ballet.

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#33 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by HarishankarK »

Sivaramakrishnan wrote: 04 Oct 2018, 12:49 Harishankar might not have imagined his simple query would attract such a huge response from the forumites.
I have been a member of this forum enough nunber of years -so will never underestimate it

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#34 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by sankark »

HarishankarK wrote: 01 Oct 2018, 06:03 this on behalf of my friend for his 8 year old boy. This family has no idea about classical music but my friend wants his son to lear some instrument l
Er, have the parents started to listen and create an environ that is CM rich to Kindle the interest of their ward?

RasikasModerator2
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#35 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by RasikasModerator2 »

ganesh_mourthy wrote: 02 Oct 2018, 12:01 Mr. mobilemusic

Thank you for the long information, but it could be confusing to people not enough techsavvy. I think people Like Srikanth can get a quick grasp of it. We are old.

Could you help me understand better if there is anything as close to geoshred in android . I gave up on ipad and the iphone is too small to play anything at all.

GM
The user MobileMusic was spamming and has been banned.

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#36 Re: Which instrument is quicker and easier to learn for carnatic

Post by VK RAMAN »

Nick H wrote: 03 Oct 2018, 14:01 You may take the horse to water, but what if it doesn't drink? Buy an instrument with a good resale value! And realise that forcing it on the child might put him off music for life.

I think that all the caveats should be headed, but not to overdo the pessimism. See it as giving the child an opportunity. He may take to it or he may not. He may get far, or he may, like me as a child of forty, thoroughly enjoy getting a little way, then shy away from the challenge of getting further. Any exposure to music is good.

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