My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
bhakthim dehi
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#51 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by bhakthim dehi » 18 Feb 2019, 15:15

than vageyyakkara it is at times the vidwan/vidushi who brings a greater charm to the music.
Subjective.
It is widely believed that Musiri changed the tune of Nagumomu. In a recent conversation with SRJ sir, he mentioned that Musiri had merely recorded another version that was in vogue.
There was a tradition (perhaps only one ?) which sang this kriti in that way. I have my own doubts on that tradition.

Same explanation can be applied to the blame on Nayana Pillai.
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RSR
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#52 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RSR » 18 Feb 2019, 16:16

than vageyyakkara it is at times the vidwan/vidushi who brings a greater charm to the music.
It is not subjective.
It is a widely felt experience.
Some 60 years back, as college students, we had a group , of CM fans and we used to discuss who among the singers of those times, ( already seniors by 2decades, and all of them famous ) sang a particular krithi , in a sweet and appealing manner. We did not know much of grammar but all of us nearly concurred. It was not the 'orthodox' school that was liked by us. We felt that something was lacking. Just as a poet is different from a grammarian, it is the voice, and feeling, that lent a special flavor.. '. Especially, the voice. The same krithi , by the same artiste after as many as 5 decades,, is uninteresting and flat. .
When there are thousands of compositions, there is no reason, why the new entrants should not leave the classics of old times alone and bring in new songs into their repertoire. instead of 're-singing' ,already famous renderings. What are they trying to prove?
In a way, it amounts to dis-respect.
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bhakthim dehi
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#53 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by bhakthim dehi » 18 Feb 2019, 17:25

Some 60 years back, as college students, we had a group , of CM fans and we used to discuss who among the singers of those times,
Musiciand excel in singing and many has created an impression with a particular song. Even before 60 years, you could have not heard Tyagarajar or Deekshithar singing their compositions. No one living now could have heard. Comparison is available between two or more variable and all of them must be available. I hope you get me.
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SrinathK
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#54 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by SrinathK » 18 Feb 2019, 18:00

Ok, while I forgot where I had read that idea of GNB's interpretation of Vasudevayani from, now I remember. I will ask the mods to edit the post as it was not a known fact that GNB really had this in mind, but he very well could have. Many swarakshara sangatis in kritis are definitely his.

The raga threads which I opened up will show that music is a live and dynamically evolving thing and this is true for all music.

Throughout the 20th century, all musicians interpreted and settled kritis according to their ideas, their parampara and their access to source materials (which were much more scarce and could not be found with the click of a mouse button or the tap of a phone screen like today). After that they were preserved that way by their schools.

No two musicians play exactly alike and no musicians sings it the exact same way twice. Most of the sangatis we sing are the result of over 150 years worth of evolution - even Mysore Vasudevacharya has praised GNB and MVI for their renditions of his kritis, giving the analogy of a girl growing up into a maiden.

Even today I see individual musicians adding their touches to kritis in the form of sangatis or manodharma ideas that get integrated into the kriti renditions. It can't be human otherwise. Only an mp3 can keep playing it exactly the same way as it was recorded.

Nevertheless as resources and data have become more and more abundant, a history begins to emerge and we accept that, because this happens to all music and art forms.

About this recording of vAsudEvayani itself, it becomes clear that the common version is a tweaked form of this meant to end the pallavi on the upper S. The charanam endings fit together nicely in a way that I always felt was not this coherent in the modern version (particularly the line tyAgarAja sannutuni) ever since I learnt it. Other portions are still the same.
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shankarank
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#55 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by shankarank » 19 Feb 2019, 08:39

The remarkable thing about the Smt. dhanammAL version of vAsudEvayani posted is that, given their adherence to gamakas, they straight launch and splash into the sea of the rAgA, what with their starting phrase ending on a refrain in between N3 and D2 somewhere.

bAgu mIrA with a dhIRgha on mIra again straight landing on pmg in the lower side as well, is a gama gama southy ground and seasoned sAmbAr dish!

naTanamu just winds up deftly with a naLinam, relishing the middle regions of the rAgA in a calm and deliberate fashion. It also avoids unnecessary elongation of hrasva ( short) syllables.

As regards comments on GNB version (unless now somebody edits wikipedia - I am going to assume it is true) , it was done with an express populist purpose, with all musical euphoria! It also has come very far : https://youtu.be/QvP8zDw-nEM?t=530 - hey hey hey even otherwise timid Arun is fired up :lol: :lol: Wo! Wo! Wo! :lol:

The dhanammal version is very characteristically feminine - I suppose there is an express purpose for it - in the abhinaya tradition ( over to dance experts!).

Also while it fixes few padaccEdams like tauvArikuni kanarE , patita pAvanuni tA vEDUcunu, this version introduces a new one in rAgA tALagatu lanupADucunu!

But it is a solid version to build on :D - now starts the fun! I will take it up in kriyas/angas/lyrical/laya thread!
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RSR
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#56 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RSR » 19 Feb 2019, 21:24

Kindly do not take my query as trolling.
I am just wondering about the version of 'vasudeavayani' sung by great musicians like Madurai Mani Iyer and others , who were contemporaries of GNB.
Did they render it differently?
Also, if 'yaman' sung by Smt.MS (1947) 'baso mere nayaan me ' ( is it not supposed to be the HM equivalent of CM 's KalyaaNi?) , follows the GNB pattern.
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CRama
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#57 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by CRama » 20 Feb 2019, 14:19

Can I get a link to the Dhanammal version of Vasudevayani.
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RaviSri
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#58 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 20 Feb 2019, 16:27

The link is in this thread, page 2, post #44
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rupavathi
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#59 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by rupavathi » 20 Feb 2019, 17:27

Thank you, nice effort! Next time, pls reduce the mic input volume. There is clipping distortion in the track.
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RaviSri
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#60 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 20 Feb 2019, 17:53

Thank you, nice effort! Next time, pls reduce the mic input volume. There is clipping distortion in the track.

Thanks for the feedback. Will do it next time. But already two more songs have been recorded.

This version of 'vAsudEvayani' is not Dhanammal's alone. Sabesha Iyer has taught it to his disciples this way as also Alathur Venkatesa Iyer.
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RaviSri
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#61 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 20 Feb 2019, 17:57

Here is the Dhanammal version of 'srI saravati hitE', mAnji rAgam.

https://archive.org/details/SriSarasaswatiHiteManji
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bhakthim dehi
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#62 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by bhakthim dehi » 20 Feb 2019, 20:09

Can I get a link to the Dhanammal version of Vasudevayani.
Any recording by Dhanammal available ?
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RaviSri
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#63 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 21 Feb 2019, 10:10

Any recording by Dhanammal available?
Not 'vAsudEvayani'. She has recorded only 13 songs, plus the ghana raga tanam and a sloka 'agrE kritvA' . 'vAsudEvayani' has not been recorded by any of her descendants too. In this thread, as I mentioned elsewhere, I am going to record only those kritis that are different from the prevailing versions and also those kritis that they have not recorded. If recordings of B-M or Bala or Viswa were available, why should I record those kritis?

That's why I am not going to record chEtasri, sri mAtrubhUtam, srI rAjagOpAlA, EmijEsitEnEmi, sukhi evarO etc., all of which are different versions, but are available on the Internet.

The latest uplaod 'srI sarasawati hitE' (mAnji) is one such different version, not available on Internet.
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SrinathK
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#64 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by SrinathK » 21 Feb 2019, 10:35

Where can I find Emi jEsitE?
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SrinathK
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#65 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by SrinathK » 21 Feb 2019, 10:42

RaviSri wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 17:57
Here is the Dhanammal version of 'srI saravati hitE', mAnji rAgam.

https://archive.org/details/SriSarasaswatiHiteManji
This is mAnji!!!?? Sure this isn't in 2 rAgAs? I swear the pallavi would be some new rAgA under harikAmbhOji mEla.

At first I thought it was sahAna with some dEvagAndhari salt thrown in.

The anupallavi sounds more like mAnji however.

In comparison Syama Sastri's mAnji is all bhairavi.
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bhakthim dehi
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#66 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by bhakthim dehi » 21 Feb 2019, 12:11

Not 'vAsudEvayani'. She has recorded only 13 songs, plus the ghana raga tanam and a sloka 'agrE kritvA' .
I know they are not in public domain. Expecting some recordings with a private collector and willing to share.
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RaviSri
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#67 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 21 Feb 2019, 16:43

Dhanammal seldom gave public performances. None recorded her. And she died in 1938. In 1936 she was persuaded by Keertanacharya C.R.Srinivasa Iyengar to record for the, I forget the name of the company. That is her only recording available.

Brindamma did not allow any recording. The few we have of B-M were AIR concerts and three of the Music Academy. And I collected all those recordings with great difficulty in the 1980s and '90s. Gave them to those who were interested in their music. These found their way to the Internet. That's all we have.
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RaviSri
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#68 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 21 Feb 2019, 16:57

SrinathK, here is EmijEsitenEmi by B-M. I've posted the link in the below thread.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4821&p=349042#p349042
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kittappa
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#69 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by kittappa » 23 Feb 2019, 17:30

Regarding the usage of G3 in place of R3 in Ravisri's singing of Swaminatha, as far as I have heard this recording keeping the SSP beside me, I noticed only 3 slippages into G3 in place of R3 throughout the whole song. Otherwise in all other places, the R3 is intact and very clear too.

Ravisri, I remember you singing this song among others when I visited you in Tiruvannamalai about 20 years back along with 2 of my friends. You also showed me the diary in which Muktamma had dictated the notation of this song to you. It was exactly as found in SSP, which you showed me also. How come you slipped into G3 now?

Your Thyagarajam Bhajeham is superb. I had tears in my eyes after listening to it. I remember Dileep Veeraraghavan telling me about both of you singing this song and how he himself had tears in his eyes.
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RSR
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#70 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RSR » 24 Feb 2019, 22:15

May I know, if the song as sung by N.C.Vsanthakokilam, follows the DhanammaaL version? just for information.
https://sites.google.com/site/ncvasanth ... thyagaraja
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RaviSri
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#71 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 26 Feb 2019, 11:18

Whether NCV or Ariyakkudi or GNB or Pattammal, in this kriti, they don't follow the Dhanammal version. The pallavi is different. The anupallavi and charanam have very little differences between Dhanammal version and those of the others.
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RaviSri
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#72 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 26 Feb 2019, 11:21

Here's the Dhanammal version of the rare (kamalA) manOhari kriti of Dikshitar, 'shankaram abhirAmi manOharam'. It is in viLamba kAlam and in 2 kaLai rUpakam.


https://archive.org/details/SankaramAbhiramiManohari
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RSR
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#73 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RSR » 26 Feb 2019, 17:02

RaviSri wrote:
26 Feb 2019, 11:21
Here's the Dhanammal version of the rare (kamalA) manOhari kriti of Dikshitar, 'shankaram abhirAmi manOharam'. It is in viLamba kAlam and in 2 kaLai rUpakam.


https://archive.org/details/SankaramAbhiramiManohari
========================
Thank you Sirs. ( for the clarification on NCV rendering of yemi jesithe). Best Regards.
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SrinathK
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#74 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by SrinathK » 01 Mar 2019, 17:42

Someone shared this on FB - amazing! https://www.facebook.com/groups/rasikas ... 347288263/
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RaviSri
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#75 Re: My Recordings of Veena Dhanammal Versions

Post by RaviSri » 10 Apr 2019, 16:42

Here is the Veena Dhanammal version of 'srI mahAgaNapatiravatumAm', gauLa rAgA and in tripuTa tALA sung by Sridhar and myself. In the SSP also it is notated as being in tripuTa tALA.

https://archive.org/details/SriMahaGana ... mRagaGaula
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