Predominance of Kalpanaswaram in kutcheris

[shreyas]

Hey everyone!

I have always been wondering why kalpanaswaras take such a predominance over neraval in a concert.

While the second, post-varnam piece of the concert is technically supposed to have a smattering of both, most artists prefer halting at a few rounds of swaras instead. Even the submain item, which is technically supposed to have neraval as well (if I am not wrong) is usually terminated by a few rounds of first-speed swaras. The main item (in all concerts except TMK, where the use of the term 'main' is ambiguous) is supposed to have N, S and T besides the regular alapana. In some concerts, the main item itself is simply ended with some swaras. I have seen Sanjay Subrahmanyan (whose music I just cannot seem to appreciate) as one of the few people who constantly omits neraval in the main piece. Even neraval in most Ragam Tanam Pallavis is quite scant as compared to the copious, 15 minute sections of ragamalika swaram. Why is neraval so scarce in a concert format that provides so much scope for it?

[Sachi_R]

Shreyas,
Great point.
Niraval or neraval is considered a bit unnecessary, as the raga bhava and tempo take precedence for the success of the performance. Instrumentalists find no meaning in niraval mostly. And swaras have the crowd appeal of mathematical forms, percussion, the dialogue between voice and instrument, the tapering off into a crescendo, and the resultant BIG applause.
Someone told me that Balamuralikrishna said that niraval should not be done at all.

KVN then and (I have noticed) RKM now do quite a bit of niraval. Even TMK. He does it well too... barring some lapses in Samskrita.

[rajeshnat]

Sanjay omits N and sings RST in main because he is allocating that time for RTP period and he also wants to sing quite a lot of tukkadas. The best musician who sings lot of neraval and swaras are TNS krishna , Suryaprakash and Abhishek in general. VIjaySiva sings equal neraval and swaras but both are bit curtailed . RKM does more neraval and little less swaras .As such the prime problem of neraval not getting sung is more a structural problem than a functional problem . These could be the reasons

1. Only very few artists nowadays get 3 hours concerts . If they decide to sing RTP very likely the first thing that they have to cut is the 2nd neraval which gives that extra time to sing an RTP.

2. When they restrict to fewer numbers then there is a possibility of cutting the tukkadas to zero or minimum. That is a strategy that will not bring new fresh blood rasikas or a family to hear a musician. You cannot bring a semi initiated rasika to hear abhishek as he does not sing tukkadas despite he elaborating more in neraval than most musicians. That is why raga and sanjay draw bit more than abhishek ofcourse social media strategy is great for raga and sanjay

3. Also in general singing swaras in my opinion is more challenging you cannot repeat manoDharmam that much there. Lot of neravals are just repetition of manodharmam with either a small delta change . For example you can sing ithavu mAttal landhu bhAga, then suddenly sing ithavu when your voice sags or lung sags . But if u say start singing a pattern sa ri ga you have to complete it despite your voice or lung sagging .Swaras and taanam with mrudangam are like get 4 sixes in 4 balls to save followon . raga bhava is there in both neraval and swaras . But of course in swaras if it is bit more kanakku then for many it gets musically not that appealing . YOu cannot put that much kanakku in neraval unlike swaras. As such anything should have high shruthi suddham. This point is just another POV for sachi.

As such if we have 3 hour and 20 mins concert with 20 mins give neraval , we will get 2 neravals , one RTP (taanam is the key here)and lot of tukkadas too , as such there is no problem of predominance of kalapana swaras . We need some solace to 2 hour (?s)crap which is a norm in most places and most times .

Ideally a gnb like alapana, ssi like neraval and taanam and mmi like swaras but wishes are horses . There was in history GNB SSI MMI because they were all given consistently T I M E. Neraval scarcity is lack of absolute time for a concert, that appears as the first thing that gets logically axed.

[SrinathK]

It raises the question as to why the submain can't become the main kriti itself if there's an RTP coming.

[Nick H]

RTP is so seldom sung that it is not really relevant.

I'm not a stats man, but surprised not to see Suguna V in Rajesh's stats. And Vedavalli?

I'm not sure whether to be glad that Abhishek gives time for neraval, or not. It was the way that he sang it that kept me away from his concerts ever after. Don't think I'd have called it neraval even.

(When I make such criticism of a popular artist, I imagine that, in the unlike event of them even noticing, they might say, "thousands come to my concerts: why should I care of you don't?" Fair enough)

[HarishankarK]

Neraval by most artistes is only chopping the lyrics especially 2nd speed - neraval should be done in first speed only . Adhukku swarame thevala
Today heard S Sowmya singing neraval for Sivaloganathanai KandU Mayamalavagowlai. Of all the places for neraval she chose 'arpa sukhaththai ninaindom, aram vazhi shella marandom'
Is this the suitable place/line for nearval. Why not do in Pallavi or anupallavi.
Yennaththai chollaradhu idharkku Mela.
2nd speed mescal in Pallavi line by Gayathri Girish for Kamalambaam Bhajare was like passing lyrics thru nutribullet but only molasses came out no sweet juice

[rajeshnat]

As such if we have 3 hour and 20 mins concert with 20 mins give neraval , we will get 2 neravals , one RTP (taanam is the key here)and lot of tukkadas too , as such there is no problem of predominance of kalapana swaras . We need some solace to 2 hour (?s)crap which is a norm in most places and most times .

I made a mistake i should have said in 3 hour and 20 mins concert give 20 mins tani. Correcting now

[rajeshnat]

It raises the question as to why the submain can't become the main kriti itself if there's an RTP coming.

For many concerts of yesteryear semmangudi the difference between submain RNS where say sArasAksha was sung and RNS main say dakshinAmoorthE the raga alapana of main is noticeably longer but in neraval and swaras both submain and main the differential is very minimal . But can the voice warm up enough for a submain to give a main like alapana AND more importantly will the rasikas be inclined to hear a long alapana in the second or third alapana, I personally need a bit of warm up of ears with a bounty of swaras, atleast that is how I am wired. That too say if the raga for the submain is say kalyani.

On a bit jovial but definitely a pragmatic route , if I have submain converted as main and the tani is given , the tani artists will hog more time and make a detailed RTP to a capsular RTP . SO MANY MANY Concerts are nowadays hogged by accompanist tani without even working backwards on the absolute time of the concert . I am not to be mistaken as I am against tani but if the concert is medium size or short the tani and violin return of alapana makes me bit fidgety when it is not worked backwards considering the total duration of the concert.

In the last 2 concerts that I attended nowadays I saw TNS krishna intelligently taking up slokham after his short alapana and Abhishek consciously singing two songs with alapana and no violin time and apportioning that time and giving to ananda krishnan for his tani quota. As such i see a lot of parliament seat adjusting like scenario there. I would love to have a submain , main followed by right apportioned tani , RTP and then Tukkadas especially with megaragamaliga slokham/viruththam . Tani at the midpoint is best ,musicians like neyveli venkatesh do a great job in keeping tani exactly apportioned to the absolute time of the concert , where as many senior mrudangam artists the tani itself is a sabotage element of the success of the concert. In last Dec concert Trichy sankaran played a brilliant tani with great ideas in a limited time@Partha , i wish in general that kind of concerts.

[arasi]

Some tAnis described as "sabotage element"-- one more picturesque Rajeshisms

I love niravals too. The reason? BhAvA means a lot to me, and what else can express that more than a cycle of well chosen, emotive words? However, I do realize that a bhava-filled AlApanA starts the happy process, and also svarA clusters sung with feeling, the svara bhAva adding their own bit (of course, not the durita kAlA ones!).

Sachi's pointing out the usage neraval and niraval made me think. It's niraval which is more apt (to fill in, mix in), which is descriptive of the process, I think.

Rajesh,
hitavu mATalentO bAga...

[thanjavooran]

Harishankar,
Excellent observation.
'Neraval by most artistes is only chopping the lyrics especially 2nd speed - neraval should be done in first speed only . Adhukku swarame thevala'

It should be mentioned that chopping the lines at appropriate place where the meaning does not change or differ.

Thanjavooran
17 02 2019

[arasi]

Thanjavooran,
Yes. How the phrases are divided without taking away the impact of the meaning is important. Heaven forbid padac chEdam! Like: O,raghOthama nI/vantivAniki vElaith thUkum piLLai/thanaip peTRa deivamE. Intuitively, and with care, one can even go back and forth, taking a word from here, there within the two lines to enhance the impact of the emotion--all that, without damaging the sense in which the composer meant the lines to be.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

It raises the question as to why the submain can't become the main kriti itself if there's an RTP coming.

Well said.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

A recent trend is to sing neraval and skip kalpanaswaras for kritis in the first half of the concert. Swaras to the fore for the main.

I welcome this.

[shreyas]

That makes sense. In fact, I have seen Sanjay Subrahmanyan almost always skip neraval for the main while only glossing over some neraval in the first half of the performance. Again, I don't like the man's music, but that is another discussion. These days more and more artists just ignore neraval completely. If you just sing neraval at the beginning and swaram in the main that makes a lot more sense. But an ideal songlist for me would be :
Varnam (S)
Vilamba kala krithi (detailed N)
Fast paced (A, N, two or three avarthanas of swarams)
Vilamba Kala
fast paced (QUick A, short N)
Main (A, N, T)
RTP (Please sing as many ragamalika swarams as you want but not at the expense of neraval. I remember listening to an RTP which was 25 min long in total plus 20 min of ragamalika: not a great trend. Also, something just seems lost when one sings ragamalika in both thanam and swaram.0
bunch of short songs (each one has some improv somewhere)
Anyway, the point is, more neraval is required in the concert. I do not agree with M Balamuralikrishna who says neraval is unnecessary. I am, in fact, quite aghast at such a statement from a genius like him.

[SrinathK]

Most neravals are what we call standard fare now - we know how it's going to go on and end. A hundred years ago, neraval was still an original concept for the early 20th century of artistes, but as a result they ended up figuring out all the tricks of the trade. Neraval itself is actually from RTP singing that found it's way into kritis. Neraval's true test is in pallavi singing.

In my opinion the main reason why artistes do not do neraval as much as swaras is because you can only do neraval either kArvai or kAravai w/phrases or sarvalaghu or sarvalaghu w/brighas with some basic patterns that are still nevertheless dictated by the line you're elaborating. But with swaras, you can do whatever you want with them as long as you manage to fit it in and land correctly.

For instrumental artistes, unless they really bring out the effect, neraval sounds just like sarvalaghu swaras, so they find it redundant. Plus neraval is more about lyric than we realize. Take that away and after a while you could totally play swaras and the result would be the same.

At least this is the way most people see it. Personally for me, a concert where the neraval hasn't been explored to the full extent of its potential doesn't satisfy me as much as one with a neraval for the gods.

There are some artistes who push the neraval far beyond the customary into something epic. And no one IMHO does that better today than TMK - his neraval at its best is in a whole other category.

[HarishankarK]

My observation is that alapanais are getting over lengthy of close to 14 to 16 mins by the main vocal and another 6 to 8 mins by violin.
Cutting the alapanai a bit can give some time for neraval.
I like the style of K Gayathri - in most concerts after the first varnam or krithi she directly launches a submain kriti like Saketa Nagara or Brova Samayamide a does a good neraval and swaras. But that is not the submain. Because after that krithi she sings submain and main as well - both those alapanai are 10 plus mins long and in between just one fast filler and then after tani no time left for thukkadas.
She sings one quick thukkadda and thillanna and close down around 2hrs and 10mins mark.
Recently Kunnakudi M Balamuralikrishna sang a Suddha Dhanyasi alapanai for over 12 mins with a lot of pauses in between. For this raga such a long elaboration is not required and after a time it became boring.
I really think sabhas should ask artistes to keep at least 20 mins after tani for vrittam and thukkadas other wise Narayana Theerthar, Brahmendraal, Jayadevar and many other such great compositions will fade away.
Carnatic music is different from Hindustani.

[Nick H]

I really think sabhas should ask artistes to keep at least 20 mins after tani for vrittam and thukkadas

This is such a personal thing, I won't use words like "disagree" but for me, that would be too much. I want to leave on a high, and the high comes from the main items. Just a little light refreshmentment to prepare me for the drive home is enough. A nice virutham, though, for me counts as a heavier item, contributing to the high.

As I say: just my personal taste. On a practical note, though, the audience is usually so much reduced (partly thani exodus) by that post-main time, that the artist might as well go home too!

[HarishankarK]

As I say: just my personal taste. On a practical note, though, the audience is usually so much reduced (partly thani exodus) by that post-main time, that the artist might as well go home too!
[/quote]
Singing interesting thukkadas could reduce the mass exodus

[Nick H]

Singing interesting thukkadas could reduce the mass exodus

The mass exodus is a vote-with-feet against two things: the thani and the thukadas. Or, it amounts to people deciding that, by the end of the main's kalpana swaras, they have heard all that they want to hear, or that is worthwhile for them to listen too. Personally, I suspect that more thukkadas will reinforce that feeling. In fact, I might even join them

Thankfully, concerts continue to cater to those who do want to listen to these elements.

[sridhar]

I wonder if there are differences between paid concerts and free ones in terms of mass exodus after main item. Something to think about.

[Nick H]

It's difficult to think about here, because there are not many paid concerts!

[Ranganayaki]

It's difficult to think about here, because there are not many paid concerts!

Difficult to compare here too, though we have some paid concerts: people don’t walk out of the free concerts during tani.

[SrinathK]

But what does this have to do with neraval itself. I think people aren't exploring it's possibilities enough.

[shreyas]

Yeah. I have only seen exhaustive neravals by TMK. Everyone else just ignores it. The idea of main and submain I believe is what causes this issue.

I think what happens is that when people sing a submain, they do not deem it necessary to sing a neraval because it is maybe a waste of time that could be used stunning the audience with korvais in the main. The six or seven minutes in the main and RTP combined should suffice. That is why RS is usually seen in the submain spot and RNST for the main. Even in that RNST, the N part is usually only five or six minutes, out of which mel-kala is three or four. So where is the neraval at all?

Instead, if this idea of submain is eschewed, perhaps artists would feel more at liberty to do neraval.

Secondly, maybe they feel the audience finds neraval more boring than swarams. But a good neraval is just as interesting as a set of rapid-fire swarams. I will take the example of TMK's neraval in Enthavedukondu - it is interesting in itself if anyone has ever listened to that neraval, even though there is not much mel-kalam at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42B7hjzcXtU from about the 37 minute mark.

Maybe if artists try singing interesting neravals rather than leaving them out because of audience boredom then the form could be revived. It is definitely on the way to extinction at this rate.

[shreyas]

Yeah. I have only seen exhaustive neravals by TMK. Everyone else just ignores it. The idea of main and submain I believe is what causes this issue.

I think what happens is that when people sing a submain, they do not deem it necessary to sing a neraval because it is maybe a waste of time that could be used stunning the audience with korvais in the main. The six or seven minutes in the main and RTP combined should suffice. That is why RS is usually seen in the submain spot and RNST for the main. Even in that RNST, the N part is usually only five or six minutes, out of which mel-kala is three or four. So where is the neraval at all?

Instead, if this idea of submain is eschewed, perhaps artists would feel more at liberty to do neraval.

Secondly, maybe they feel the audience finds neraval more boring than swarams. But a good neraval is just as interesting as a set of rapid-fire swarams. I will take the example of TMK's neraval in Enthavedukondu - it is interesting in itself if anyone has ever listened to that neraval, even though there is not much mel-kalam at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42B7hjzcXtU from about the 37 minute mark.

Maybe if artists try singing interesting neravals rather than leaving them out because of audience boredom then the form could be revived. It is definitely on the way to extinction at this rate.

[Nick H]

Funny how people's perception varies so widely. Well, not really, we don't all attend the same concerts or even the same musicians!

My experience is that there is plenty of neraval outside the world of TMK, and several artists that are known for it.

By plenty, I don't mean to say enough! The more the better! ... Is just my personal preference and wish

[rbharath]

Pretty interesting read...
And one is bowled over by the thoughts, preferences, opinions and ideas people seem to have. Not saying who is right or wrong here. To each, his/her own...

Coming to what I wish to add.

Neraval is the more tricky aspect of singing. It is more demanding than an alapanai or swarams. It needs more capability and caliber. For a good/competent neraval, the artist must first find an apt line in a suitable song and then ensure the ragam has enough scope for neraval singing.

while i do like more than one neraval presented in a concert, i will be happy even if one of them is done competently, instead of just going through the motions.

Neraval can/must include elaborations and delibrations in both slow speed and high speed. The concept of sama kAla neraval (or madhyama kAla neraval) seems to be endangered. That is a real thing to do. Further, neraval can include a lot of vyavaharam including patterns and korvais and korappu. However, for whatever reason, many artists dont do all this I guess.

As someone who rather occasionally attends concerts and most of them, only in parts, I must not be really saying anything about artists/concerts of the day.


with regard to planning a concert:
I think the artists on stage should get full freedom about what they wish to present. it could be just the main artist's wish or the team's. However, there should not be any restrictions on what must be presented and definitely no fixing of times for each item. the stop clocks at concerts are just disgusting, imho. It is possible for artists to present anything within a time frame. There was once an AIR national program for 90 min. The artist presented a varnam, a short kriti with svarams, a sub main, a filler, a main with tani, a pallavi with a short tani and a javali. this included 2 neravals and violin returns wherever necessary. There was another concert for 60 min, where the artist presented a varnam, a kriti with alapanai, neraval, svarams and tani and a thiruppavai. If you ask me to choose which of these is preferred, i would choose both. They are both good. If the concert has an overall time-frame, as long as that is communicated and the artist sticks to it, what needs to be looked for, is the quality of what is presented and the musical value, rather than finding a list of missing aspects or pin-pointing scheduling errors etc. if the artist ignores the time-limit on purpose and eats into some-one else's space, then, thats a different story, which must not be permitted at all. What if the arrtist is not told about the concert time-frame earlier and is asked to cut it short, mid-way, saying your time is up. Thats bad too. All these scenarios are part of our sabha culture. Hence, the discussion on the menu of a certain concert needs to be taken one-at-a-time, with all background info, to pass a judgement. but, is that necessary to do?

[rajeshnat]

Apart from the mother of all problems which is the absolute duration of concerts , the second problem is in general how an artist observes and plans organically the transition from R to krithi to Nerval to swara. I think more than todays musicians i adore the musicians like MMI SSI and GNB - Rajesh's carnatic vocal trinities . The transitions have depth and is also organic. There could have been an element of that moments manodharmam but it is the aspect of getting serious and falling at the feet of the ragam , talam , lyrics judiciously and giving balance.

Some one in this thread said that singing neraval is more difficult than swaras. I would humbly disagree nothing is as difficult as singing swaras , in neraval if you have bit lost your meter or tala a bit, you can quickly go into aahhhh, hmmmmm,eeeeee, etc and go a bit into mantra chanting , but damn it when you start swaras you have given your head into the guillotine controlled by pakkavadhyams and there is no scope of hmmm, ahhhh, etc . In neraval there is a scope of escapism of singing again and again the same line with same effect , so if at times the musician does have a momentary lapse of manodharma constipation, that musician can repeat annai kamakshi pole vadivai vandai ...etc many many times in neraval but in swaras your head is already in guillotine . For many musicians singing swaras can be very inorganic , but that is where the school, the personal training , the pakkavadhyam chemistry of established team, and the confidence of few musicians who can sing by being very present even with unfavorable /rare pakkavadhyams.

Bottom line descending order of musical complexity swaras >> Taanam>>> Neraval >>> alapanai >> Krithi. I am in particular saying this as i learnt music and i can sing 5 to 10 krithis reasonably well but the first 4 no chance . I am not talking about few outlier krithis like pranatharthi hari mega 72 melakartha maliga just the usual ones.

- Rajesh (A Rasika who prefers taanam with mrudangam even more than swaras at times, but he is not a sabha seceratary so he hardly gets that).

[rbharath]

doing aaa, eee, oooh is all escapism. someone doing that is blatantly committing a mistake. he/she has missed something. that is not considered correct. just because you have the liberty to commit mistakes, you cannot call something more rigorous to be easy.

adjusting the beat and words to your convenience is not correct during neraval, as per some schools of music. if you dont stick to the meter, it is still considered wrong in those lines of thought.

in swarams too, you can go into aaa, eeee, oooh... in svarams too, you can plan karvais to take a break. the patterns can be adjusted to get space. when you miss a beat, you can jump into sarvalaghu

what are we discussing here? the ease of committing mistakes? the ease at escaping from faults?

What I said earlier is about presenting good music, with finesse and sans blatant mistakes or special effects. and neraval is definitely difficult compared to singing other manodarmam parts, in that purview, imho.

i would still say neraval singing as the more difficult part. i say this as a very humble rasikas who is able to appreciate a little of what our great musical masters have done. i would also say this a someone who has learnt to sing, for a few years, and can manage to sing ragam, tanam, neraval and svarams along with some kritis. A little that was driven into this mud-head by a great teacher. i would also say this as someone who still tries to sing some kritis with some manodarmam everyday, however bad and mistake-ridden it be.

[VK RAMAN]

niraval is the mother of majority westerners disliking cm

[Nick H]

niraval is the mother of majority westerners disliking cm

Do you think so? Most westerners start with Hindustani, the likes of Ravi Shankar. It is singing of songs that they find more difficult to listen to than improvisation.

For myself, I would say (and probably have done) that neraval is the most sublime part of carnatic music. More than any other, it depends on the artist being able to communicate pure feeling in the music.

OK, I'll counter myself: ruled by the numbers, it is harder to present pure feeling in kalpanaswara, but some people can.

[nadhasudha]

Neraval is the more tricky aspect of singing. It is more demanding than an alapanai or swarams. It needs more capability and caliber. For a good/competent neraval, the artist must first find an apt line in a suitable song and then ensure the ragam has enough scope for neraval singing.

I concur. IMHO, Neraval singing requires much more artistic depth than singing swarams or alapana and I state my reasons below. In addition to the managing the layam in the neraval, the singer needs to pay attention to not only rAga BhAva and lyrical integrity but also the mood of the line being repeated. Alapana and Swarams do not need to maintain lyrical integrity - just the tAlam and rAga bhAva will suffice as there are no lyrics. Over and above the rAga bhAva, the neraval has to also be done bearing in mind the mood of the line being repeated. For instance, a line that is pleading for grace will not be served well with a neraval that sounds aggressive.

[VK RAMAN]

niraval is the mother of majority westerners disliking cm

Do you think so? Most westerners start with Hindustani, the likes of Ravi Shankar. It is singing of songs that they find more difficult to listen to than improvisation.

For myself, I would say (and probably have done) that neraval is the most sublime part of carnatic music. More than any other, it depends on the artist being able to communicate pure feeling in the music.

OK, I'll counter myself: ruled by the numbers, it is harder to present pure feeling in kalpanaswara, but some people can.

Even in India, what is the percentage of CM listeners other than minority Tamil speaking brahmins in and around Chennai or other major cities in India

[shreyas]

Neraval, I do agree, sounds less appealing than a nice and racy round of swaras. Especially if it is only in alapana-style, like an example here : look at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpAl04ZGJv0

A very nice neraval in Gowla by TMK (the first song). However, if anyone who has just begun to enjoy Carnatic music watches it, they will be bored to death. In fact, when I attended my first few concerts when I was barely able to appreciate the music, the neravals were what put me off the most. Neravals are for the more experienced, both the practitioners and the listeners.

All the same, an electrified neraval in second speed is not that much beneath the expectations for the 'excitement' of the passage. This brings us to another point - the conflict between the adrenaline and the appropriateness of the situation. For instance, in a vilamba kala krithi like, say, Soundararajam (Brindavana Saranga), or maybe Sri Subrahmanyaya Namasthe (which is ideally to be sung in a slow speed to wring all the juice out of Dikshithar's Kambhoji), a racy neraval simply does not make sense. However, singing a neraval in these krithis does bring out the potential of the spacious gaps between syllables. A smaller song, like maybe rajuvedala or Rama Nee Samanamevaru, does check both the boxes: speedy neravals can be sung without marring the emotional aesthetic of the composition. This is, in fact, the primary issue. Because artists don't want to to sing long neravals, but they do want it at some point in the performance, they opt for these smaller neravals, which are often unfulfilling - the sama kalam is usually less than a minute long, and then they shift straight to mel-kalam.

Take Sanjay Subrahmanyan, whose music I honestly despise. But here is an unbiased opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMh5lZXPyRM&t=5219s
The main neraval in Kharaharapriya lasts six or seven minutes, and has no recognisable merit whatsoever. In a 3.5 hour concert, a good neraval should last at least fifteen minutes in total.

And @rajeshnat , I respectfully disagree. It is not tougher to sing swaram than neraval. In fact, being able to sing a powerful and a subtle neraval in a song is way tougher than singing a few rounds of swaras. Otherwise, why do you think students of music are taught swaram first, then alapana, and only then neraval? It's because maintaining the general integrity of the line is of essence. You can't keep singing akaram ukaram ikaram if you lose the beat - you have to 'fill it up' which is what I am told neraval means, with musical expressions that are both reflective of the syllabic position and the raga. For example, take a classic neraval line - Veda Shastra Tatvarthamu Thelisi (Sankarabharanam - Adi - Tyagaraja). You can't lose beat at, say, Shastra, and then sing aaaaaa for five seconds. It's noticed. Rasikas are not idiots (I hope). It's a good neraval only if you can say the words meaningfully and bring out the raga bhavam. The lyrical meaning must not be null (like the line in Akshaya Linga Vibho that ends in Navanita, when the full thing should be Navanita Hridaya), but that doesn't mean repeating words in the same line shows 'artistic constipation.' Therefore, neraval is not easy to sing. It is also very tempting to sing the whole line in one breath and then keep singing akaram for the next six beats in the avarthanam, and things like that, if they have to be avoided, must be taught at a later stage to students, which is why neraval is not easy.

While it is the choice of the artists on stage, the idea is that neraval itself will soon lose ground and will begin to represent a void in the 'kutcheri culture' where audience entertainment plays a higher role than paying tribute to the music and the composer.

[pattamaa]

interesting... i tend to agree with neraval singing needs more concentration (can't use aaa,eee,oooo etc - someone does that, it is not neraval..). singing swara prastara is also tricky if one need to make it technical, interesting, use kanakku and still want to sound not like kannukku to ears.

can we have good examples of neraval of past masters from vintage concerts, with examples of why it is good (let's not say it is 15 minutes, so it is good, or this artist is my favourite, so good., prefer technical discussion)

[shankarank]

I tend to lean on the side of those who argue for neraval being the challenging one. A true neraval is not a technique or variation or even a measure of manOdharmam. A good neraval may be that. But a true one happens when there is no hurry or time management. Musician must be simply lost in it. They can repeat the same pattern or vary it. It is not a musicological measure.

svarakalpana is more like a perfected technique and its appreciation is centered on an era which started valuing "creativity" in everything!

[shreyas]

That is, in fact, the primary aspect of the problem. Kalpanaswaram isn't technically creativity, is it? You're just picking out swaras from the raga that make sense when combined in a melodic flow, and presenting them. If one considers swaras to be creative output, then neraval is equally 'creative'. However, most people, including Dr. Balamuralikrishna, believe(d) that swaram is far superior.

[YetAnotherMusicLover]

Agree with the original point that neravals are now skipped in favour of swarams. Why this is so can be only explained by artists (and each may have their own reasons).

We can only conjecture about the reasons for this change. One issue could be lack of time as rajeshnat mentioned. Other could be the impact factor vs other forms of creativity during a concert. Difficulty could be an issue. And there could be other factors as well.

From a lay rasika point of view, in order for a neraval in a kriti to make a great impact
- it should bring out the Bhava/emotion of the line in the context of the whole kriti
- it should have rhe right placement of words and letters at the right points in the thala cycle
- it should bring out the essence of the raga
So, I agree that it is not that easy to get it right! Just doing few variations in three octaves does not really count! Speeding it up helps a bit in making it catchy, but that alone will not do justice to the original concept. I am also not a great fan of extra long nervals or repeating the same word many times! (unless it is really impactful. Sometimes, have heard some artists overdoing this)

I always yearn for good neravals in concerts. Many yesteryear musicians spent a good amount of time on neravals. For example, in some Madurai Somu concerts, we can hear 3-4 neravals before even reaching the main!!! That may not happen much now with current day 2 hour concerts. But I do hope artists attempt to give atleast few good neravals in a concert.

[arasi]

Absolutely. Hope musicians try to make neraval thematic this season! I am sort of a lay rasikA myself, an old (andak kAlathu)rasikA too, and I don't find much of it these days. Yes, the line should have the weight to sustain the elaboration. It should bring a rich imagery to the listener's mind. Or, a philosophical thought to ponder over.
Strangely enough, I was listening to Papanasam Sivan's richly descriptive taNigai vaLar SaravaNabhavA yesterday, and how the neraval pleased! tuLLi viLaiyADi varum tOgai mayil mIdERi. Sanjay Subrahmanyan at Cholamandala--available on YouTube.
With an excellent neraval line--the chemistry should happen too, of course. Well-chosen line replete with meaning or aesthetic description which the artiste works on, highlighting the bhAva. Able accompanists not only gild it, but goad the singer to get to work with more enthusiasm...

[rshankar]

Talking of phrases for nereval, I’d like to see newer ones from established songs taken up too - could add to the excitement. OR if duo singers could take up adjacent phrases, and not the same - for example, one person takes up kadamba vana nilayE, and the other, kanja lOcanE bhavAnI or something like that.

I’ve always wondered if there’s a taboo to taking up mIna lOcani pASa mOcani in mInAkshI mE mudam dEhi, given that it lead to the kapAla mOksham of Sri MD.

[arasi]

Ravi,
Interesting. Yes, as you listen to some songs, you wonder why a better line was not chosen. In some cases, because some well-known musicians picked them for neraval and they follow suite (custom). When a song yields more than one line to take up for neraval, the artistes acumen or his/her present mood dictates the choice, perhaps. Pakka vAdyams also are a deciding factor. A nearval comes alive when the feeling is continued in the playing--especially by the violinist. Those of us who are partial to lyrics want to hear more neravals, of course.

By the way, what do you think of the origin of the word? We have talked about it somewhere before, I think. niravudal: spreading it out? adding on? That is, from the kacheri format point of view, adding more to the uruppaDis? I don't know. PBala for the rescue?

[shreyas]

Not speaking only as a fan of TMK,

I think TMK does some very interesting neravals. Some examples of lines chosen:

1. O Rangasayi: Kailasadipudu instead of Bhuloka
2. Muripemu Galige - Veduchu Bhusura instead of Iduleni Malayamarutamu
3. Bala Gopala - Vainika Gayaka, Manikya Makuta instead of Nila Niratha Sharira
4. Meenakshi - YES, he HAS done one at Meenalochani Pasamochani. I wonder if people are actually scared of dying or what
5. Dinamani Vamsa - Manavini Baguga, Parvata Tyagaraja instead of Sarva Vinuta
6. Sri Subrahmanyaya Namasthe - Dhiraya Nada Vidhatre instead of Vasavadi
7. Nannu Palimpa - Jeevanamani instead of Karamuna
8. Sri Rajagopala - Some random line in the colossal charanam rather than Dhiragraganya
9. Merusamana - Thaluku Jekkulache instead of the classic Galamuna Shobhillu
10. Kamakshi (bhairavi swarajathi) - abhimanamuleda instead of syama krishna sodari
11. Minalochana - Niraja Vendi Minalochana Brova (Yes, including the pallavi) rather than Kamapalini Bhavani
12. Chakkani Rajamargamu - Pallavi instead of Kantiki Sundara (and believe me that was some fantastic neraval right there).
13. Kamakshi Bangaru - Mayamma Bangaru Bomma instead of Shulini Sadasivunikirani
14. Upacharamu - Ekantamu instead of Vakitane
15. Upacharamulanu - Janakipathi instead of kapatanataka

AND MANY MORE that have escaped my memory as of now.

By the way, @arasi I think neraval (TMK said in some lecdem or perhaps in his book) comes from the word 'to fill'. I don't know any Tamil but for those of you that do, it might make sense to explore that.

[thenpaanan]

Neraval is the more tricky aspect of singing. It is more demanding than an alapanai or swarams. It needs more capability and caliber. For a good/competent neraval, the artist must first find an apt line in a suitable song and then ensure the ragam has enough scope for neraval singing.

while i do like more than one neraval presented in a concert, i will be happy even if one of them is done competently, instead of just going through the motions.

Neraval can/must include elaborations and delibrations in both slow speed and high speed. The concept of sama kAla neraval (or madhyama kAla neraval) seems to be endangered. That is a real thing to do. Further, neraval can include a lot of vyavaharam including patterns and korvais and korappu. However, for whatever reason, many artists dont do all this I guess.

I see the situation differently -- I think neraval singing, at least the kind you are describing here, was never a high priority in the Carnatic idiom. We tend to remember our favorite singers of yore such as KVN, SSI, MDR, etc who sang extensive neravals but they were really exceptions to the rule. A handful of singers gave the elaborate and unhurried neravals that you're asking for, but for most singers neravals quickly progress to mElkAlam and serve as a platform to showcase the singer's virtuosity (or acrobatics depending on whether that is your cup of tea or not). Even the "big" guys -- GNB, Madurai Mani Iyer, Somu, MSS, Ramnad Krishnan, Ariyakudi (to the extent that is knowable from recordings), Chembai, TKRangachari, TNS, etc etc spent only a fleeting few minutes in the slow part of the neraval before proceeding to brisk and brisker speeds/vyavahAram and eventually transitioning to swarams. KVN and MDR were the exceptions here.

Now coming to the question of why this is so, I think the big reason is that neraval overlaps (functionally) a great deal with AlApana in the Carnatic idiom. If you look at our HindustAni counterparts, they do in their baDA khayAl (aka vilambit) precisely this sort of unhurried and detailed neraval that we are talking about. However they do not have much of an AlAp before a baDA khayAl. They seem to prefer the rAgA treatment in the accompaniment of the percussionist and using the words of the khayAl for enunciation support. Contrarily our AlApana leaves out the percussionists and we are forced to subsist on akAram or nonsense syllables to carry our musical expressions. Historically (or as a legacy of the kutchEri paddhati) we seem to put detailed melodic exposition in our AlApana and our melodic/rhythmic improvisations in our kalpanAswaram, with neraval being squeezed out.

This is not to say that our musicians are not capable. I am sure our top musicians are fully capable of delivering brilliant slow neravals but perhaps they want to hew as closely to tradition as possible or even apprehensive that audiences will not accept multiple detailed neravals at the expense of AlApana.

My own personal bias is heavily towards neravals over AlApana for yet another reason. A common complaint heard in Carnatic circles about the Hindustani khayal is that it sounds very repetitive. The khayAl buildup is very incremental and slow, not appealing to a broad range of audiences who want some verve and excitement (causing many contemporary Hindustani artists to intersperse new kinds of compositions/styles in their presentation to break up the monotony). Carnatic concerts are filled with a lot many kritis even as the time window keeps shrinking as others have pointed out. So these two live on two extremes of a spectrum.

But there is another serious lack, which is a bit more difficult to describe. The structuring of our AlApanas is such that we don't want to be seen as repeating phrases. As students of the genre, we are always encouraged by our teachers to add something new or unexpected or unusual in every phrase if possible. This leads to very dense and abstract presentations of rAgAs and while we may get the plaudits from the learned critics, it makes them less appreciable to lay audiences. An AlApana shorn of the standard cliches of rAgA is a delight to critics and utterly unsatisfying to the general audience. A neraval is not only more challenging to the singer, it might also have more appeal.

Even in our detailed AlApana we often cheat -- our musicians (not just singer, violinists as well) rapidly transition to the fast part of the AlApana as if in a hurry to catch a train, and then in the fast phrases we show off our vocal ability so the audience will not think less of us. So it is not like we are getting an unhurried exposition of a rAgA in AlApana either. There are a few like TMK et al who are trying to ask that question but so far I have not seen too many takers.

-Thenpaanan

[shankarank]

As regards musicians other than KVN/MDR/SSI that you mention, other musicians some have gotten into such a groove once in a while if the situation is right.

A musician must have built stature , following and also be in a setting where they feel their stature is valued as well, in order to get into that. That is a luxury.

Since you listed TNS , I would have to say, I would have liked the koluvai neraval continue - the slower neraval I mean, http://www.sangeethamshare.org/ramakris ... ndali-1988

This feels somewhat faster now, but I was so used to hearing fast music - this ( the whole rendition) sounded slow on initial hearings. The svarams in slower rounds, actually give away the potential, a tad bit longer than the slower neraval.

Even this happens because of the stature of Mridangist ( by the time the concert happened that is) - of the kind that believe in Nadham and build only on that.

Such convictions take a lot of time to build and the rasika community must be up to it - where musicians don't see them as mere audience.

TMK has set himself up with a stage by many other means, before he could afford to ask such questions and try out. We have to see how his rasikas keep up with it.

[Nick H]

... they want to hew as closely to tradition ...

Curious. At first, I thought this said the exact opposite of what it appeared to mean. Google told me that it is North-American usage. I think the Americans got their hew mixed up with their cleavage

Google define hew
Google Define cleave (expand the definition)

[shankarank]

I think the big reason is that neraval overlaps (functionally) a great deal with AlApana in the Carnatic idiom.

That is patently false!! You are actually describing a TMK neraval ( for example the yETi janma neraval or even the kriti rendition that preceded it in some year 2006 or 2007 - Allen city Library - IFAA - I guess TMK 2.0 was in the cooks.

Neraval is foremost the awareness of the position of syllables on the time scale! Debates about whether it can move or how it moves is an inter-school ideological battles, but it should have overall integrity!

But when you have a percussionist on stage or even a rasika with perception of time (assuming there is no percussionist!), you are under serving both, when you say that the aesthetic value in a composition is only the rAgA slide from note to note. Syllables are then coat stands for music that is rAgA?

Unacceptable - especially in a Carnatic music that is about 100 years old! Not that there has been a percussion always there, since the days of Konerirajapuram ! But the language ( a holistic term!) is a 500 pound elephant in the music stage. That is just even the spoken languages like telugu , kannada. Sanskrit is a 1000 pound elephant sleeping behind the 500 pound ones - so you don't yet see it but it's impact is already there even for a non-sanskrit composition. Tamizh, if it could ever enter the stage enters in the same fashion as Sanskrit. It already entered the music in its own way in the dvitiyAkshara prAsa.

There are notions of purity beyond just the raga lakshanas that they debated in the sadas for last 100 years. If TMK wants to battle against that is - here is more for him!

If he cannot transmit the awareness of syllable position and aesthetics around it, to the extent that his own percussionist is not sure, he could as well do Alapana! Why neraval? He can do a la Bangalore Nagaratnammal. He can still have a percussionist on stage - paid for. Raga stretch aesthetics does not need the coat stand of syllables.

Contrarily our AlApana leaves out the percussionists and we are forced to subsist on akAram or nonsense syllables to carry our musical expressions.

Oh! the meaningful neraval line versus meaningless Akara or torino syllables. Now I have to say Carnatic music is really not just 100 years old - but ancient all the way to Indus valley or kumari deluge! Ok we can stop at nAradIya Siksha (viewtopic.php?t=19349). Shadjam mayUrO vadati. So musical consciousness in their view included non-human subjects! Now don't privilege the enlightened human beings! I was thinking all of that is fiction. But I realize what we mean by fiction today is actually real. It produces real biases in people!

[thenpaanan]

Curious. At first, I thought this said the exact opposite of what it appeared to mean. Google told me that it is North-American usage. I think the Americans got their hew mixed up with their cleavage

Google define hew
Google Define cleave (expand the definition)

Nice catch. While I was vaguely familiar with the idea that both "hew" and "cleave" have this interesting feature of having opposing alternate meanings (to split vs to adhere) I had no idea that the second meaning of "hew" is limited to North America alone.

[thenpaanan]

As regards musicians other than KVN/MDR/SSI that you mention, other musicians some have gotten into such a groove once in a while if the situation is right.

A musician must have built stature , following and also be in a setting where they feel their stature is valued as well, in order to get into that. That is a luxury.

Wouldn't you say that even after attaining the stature that could afford the "risk" of vilamba kAla neravals, those musicians still saw this as an experimental thing to be tried out once in a while? Long, slow neraval was never seen as a standard treatment of a rAgam by the vast majority of Carnatic musicians. Even pallavis in RTP tend to change gears to medium tempo as soon as the basic signature of the pallavi is established in slow speed. There is no reason to believe that this practice was any different in the past.

[thenpaanan]

I think the big reason is that neraval overlaps (functionally) a great deal with AlApana in the Carnatic idiom.

That is patently false!! You are actually describing a TMK neraval ( for example the yETi janma neraval or even the kriti rendition that preceded it in some year 2006 or 2007 - Allen city Library - IFAA - I guess TMK 2.0 was in the cooks.

Neraval is foremost the awareness of the position of syllables on the time scale! Debates about whether it can move or how it moves is an inter-school ideological battles, but it should have overall integrity!

But when you have a percussionist on stage or even a rasika with perception of time (assuming there is no percussionist!), you are under serving both, when you say that the aesthetic value in a composition is only the rAgA slide from note to note. Syllables are then coat stands for music that is rAgA?

Unacceptable - especially in a Carnatic music that is about 100 years old! [...]

I have to confess that I did not quite follow all your points but at least in the above snippet, I think we are arguing past each other. I am talking about neraval as I see it being done today or even in the last few decades since the age of recording, whereas you are talking about neraval as it ought to be in your perspective.

How neraval ought to be sung is a different question altogether but wouldn't you agree that what you've described above and what we actually see commonly in performances are worlds apart?

[shankarank]

Last few decades.. hmm.. It needs qualified with something - the first gen YACM-ers were worlds apart. The breath of fresh air and a break was provided by Ranjani/Gayathri sisters - with their evari-mATA in the year 2001 around @ Cleveland, when they were on their last violin duet tour. I am not claiming they did the slow long neraval, but they had good precision, good awareness. Remember neraval is done solo - so we cannot hang it on their need to synchronize.

My perception was reinforced as recently as 2014 - their neraval on Rokkamicchutakune had class.

Since then PSN schoolers , who are successful in stage have generally excelled!

Just the awareness of syllables, and putting them to effect is not virtuosity or vyavahAram. Virtuosity to me is Jugals where UKS and Zakir duke it out. Otherwise any Carnatic singer is virtuosity filled for a Bhajan singer.